The HMO Is Out

by West Virginia Rebel

Posted by on 03/05/09 at 08:01 PM from

Health problems are behind half the bankruptcies in this country, and three-quarters of those bankrupt people had health insurance when they got sick.

Try this Link

Posted by Hal_10000 on 03/05/09 at 09:25 PM from

I read through that time article and it has a lot of big problems.

Yes, half of bankruptcies are cause by heathcare.  By sociological studies have shown, as I linked a while back, that financial behavior is a much stronger indicator of bankruptcy than illness.

As for Drum’s point, I talked about cost-shifting last week.  But most people don’t realize that you can negotiate prices, often getting them down by 30-50% or so.  The reason providers do that is because they’re getting screwed over both by Medicare (prices have risen 15% since 1982) and other insurance companies (who tie their fee schedules to Medicare).  The HMO’s don’t fear lawsuits.  They have the doctors by the short hairs because they can almost literally act as monopolies.

Posted by on 03/05/09 at 09:36 PM from

It’s on Druge-linking to ABC news.  Obama is lying with his medical statistics.  You couldn’t even summon up the ounce of energy required to just check right?  Nope just swallow whole what the Messiah and his sycophants at Time and elsewhere are pitching.

And Jesus Christ can you be more economcally fucking ignorant.  Listen carefully: WE DO NOT HAVE A FREE MARKET MEDICAL SYSTEM!!!!

Every state has a laundry list of what has to be covered by any insurance driving up costs.  We can’t buy medical insurance out of state-this short circuits competition.  Those who are employed and get insurance from their jobs are advantaged by the tax code-insurance is compensation but it is not taxed as such. This makes it more expensive for the unemployed and those in jobs without insurance.  Medical practice and insurance are one of the most heavily regulated sectors of the economy-free market?  What a load of ingorant shit.

Posted by on 03/05/09 at 09:39 PM from

believe in a free-market health care system at heart,

No you don’t.  No one believes you do, not even you.

I also believe in an accountable one

Accountable to whom?  The government?

Maybe it’s the free market at work

No you moron, it’s the destruction of the free market at work.  In a free market prices are high because supply is low and demand is high.  You’re describing a situation in which prices are high because they are compensating for arbitrary values that are mandated by non consumers.  This weakens the system by removing the power of the consumer to assign value. 

Hospitals aren’t directly accountable to the consumer.  Hell, in most cases the consumer has no idea what the value of their care is.  Hospitals are accountable to the HMOs who’s values are much different than those of the consumer.  Hospitals are accountable to government regulations; many of which have nothing to do with quality of care.  Hospitals are accountable to class action suits who’s agenda is first and foremost the size of the award, rather than protecting the consumer.

The problem isn’t that hospitals aren’t accountable.  The problem is that they are accountable to the wrong things.

“It’s like the shopkeepers who charge twenty bucks for a pair of flashlight batteries after hurricanes.”

What is the appropriate value of a battery after a hurricane?  Who are you to mandate what it should be for everyone?  How many batteries are left?  How many people want them?  How many does each person want? 

High pricing during a shortage has a sublime benefit.  It prevents hoarding.  More people have access to batteries during a hurricane when the price is set high.  High prices force people to make a choice regarding whether they really need those batteries or not.  If batteries stay at $5.99, you can bet your ass I’m buying the whole box.

In the healthcare biz, it just doesn’t work.

Doesn’t work to do what?  Why should healthy living, (or unhealthy living) not come at a price?  What is the value of a healthy life?  Are you trying to tell me that there’s a price that’s higher than the value of your life?

Lastly:

If you’re uninsured, you’ve got no leverage, no alternatives, no nothing.

Bullshit bullshit bullshit.  First of all, our system guarantees service for critical care.  Secondly, our system is rife with charitable organizations that target aid for health care that act as a secondary safety net to the convoluted failure of a safety net that the government provides.  There’s the choice to prepare for your future with a health care savings account.  There’s the choice to live a healthier life.  There are always options.

Posted by on 03/05/09 at 10:02 PM from

That doesn’t mean a total government takeover-but in some ways our system is outdated, and needs change.

How?  Can you offer an idea instead of mindlessly posting the writings of others?  How does it need to change?

Posted by on 03/05/09 at 10:10 PM from

Fang nice comment

Posted by HARLEY on 03/06/09 at 04:52 AM from

That doesn’t mean a total government takeover-but in some ways our system is outdated, and needs change.

Who said this? WVR or Rush?
You yell for change, without giving a detailed list of how you would change it.

Posted by on 03/06/09 at 05:22 AM from

This is mine: the fact that the system massively overcharges you if you’re uninsured, and they do it just because they can.

The real fact is this.  Until the pricing schemes change to the point that it’s affordable for the average person to buy their own policy, prices are indirectly set by insurance companies and gov’ts.  One of the big problems is that you as an consumer has almost no access to buying your own insurance.  And if you do try, you’re priced out of the game to start with.  If car insurance worked the way that health insurance worked, the uninsured car owners would have the same problems.

Posted by on 03/06/09 at 06:10 AM from

Until the pricing schemes change to the point that it’s affordable for the average person

Define affordable.

Should the person have funds left over to eat out twice a week?  How many assets should that person have?  What should their debt load be? How much should they have left over for retirement, their children’s education, the care of their elderly parents?

What if they don’t have elderly parents or children?  Should they pay more?

“Affordable” is not something that can be mandated as an average.  The government can’t arbitrarily set the value of an item.  There is no accurate 3 party yardstick of affordable.

It’s a value, and values fluctuate through individual needs.  When you say something (and I mean you personally) isn’t affordable, what you’re really saying is, “I’d rather spend my money on something else.” or “That [service or item] is not worth the price that’s being asked.” Every time something is purchased, or not purchased, the value of the item is impacted.  It’s doesn’t get more democratic then that.

Posted by InsipiD on 03/06/09 at 07:41 AM from

I would counter that part of the reason costs are so high in this country is because of the fear of lawsuits that keeps the HMOs from granting more coverage,

How does fear of a lawsuit keep an HMO from granting more coverage?  It seems that I would be much more likely to sue an HMO for denying care to me than allowing care that perhaps went wrong.