"To what purpose are powers limited, and to what purpose is that limitation committed to writing,
if these limits may, at any time, be passed by those intended to be restrained?"
-- Chief Justice John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, 1803

Kids Are the Answer
by Hal_10000

Oh dear. Not this again.

“Economists have modeled the impact of many variables on people’s overall happiness and have consistently found that children have only a small impact. A small negative impact,” reports Harvard psychologist and happiness researcher Daniel Gilbert. In addition, the more children a person has the less happy they are. According to Gilbert, researchers have found that people derive more satisfaction from eating, exercising, shopping, napping, or watching television than taking care of their kids. “Indeed, looking after the kids appears to be only slightly more pleasant than doing housework,” asserts Gilbert in his bestselling, Stumbling on Happiness (2006).

Of course, that’s not what most parents say when asked. For instance, in a 2007 Pew Research Center survey people insisted that their relationships with their little darlings are of the greatest importance to their personal happiness and fulfillment. However, the same survey also found “by a margin of nearly three-to-one, Americans say that the main purpose of marriage is the ‘mutual happiness and fulfillment’ of adults rather than the ‘bearing and raising of children.’”

Gilbert suggests that people claim their kids are their chief source of happiness largely because it’s what they are expected to say. In addition, Gilbert observes that the more people pay for an item, the more highly they tend to value it and children are expensive, even if you don’t throw in piano lessons, soccer camps, orthodonture, and college tuitions. Gilbert further notes that the more children people have, the less happy they tend to be. Since that is the case, it is not surprising that people are choosing to have fewer children. And if people with fewer children are happier, then people with no children must be happiest, right? Not exactly, but the data do suggest that voluntarily childless women and men are not less happy than parents. And they sure do have more money to squander as they try to pursue what happiness they can and strive to somehow fill up their allegedly empty lives

This post ended up long. More past the break.

I’ve blogged on this before. Money quote:

As a father-to-be, I’m not having kids because I think it will make me happy. I hope it will. But I’m principally having kids because I think it’s an end in itself, that I have a duty to the future to create and form a good person to advance the human comedy one more generation. To not have kids because it might affect my life is the ultimate selfishness, no? To sacrifice the future to sustain my present?

We all do things that we must do, whether we like them or not. I work a job because I need to provide for myself and my family and I hope to contribute something with my time on this planet. That I enjoy my work is a nice side effect. I also do a lot of things I don’t like because I must. That includes mowing the lawn, cleaning the house, scooping the cat litter, etc., etc. I have always hated the Utilitarian philosophy.

I hope that having kids will bring me happiness. And I think it will. But that’s not the reason I’m doing it.

I tend to be very Kantian in my personal philosophy, in case you haven’t noticed.

But thinking about it some more, I call bullshit on the entire exercise. Measures of happiness are complete crap. Different things make different people happy and to different degrees. So if one couple is very happy about kids and another is unhappy, we conclude that kids that don’t make you happy. And while you are doing that, you might all want to slip into your size 10 shoes. Just cut off some toes if they don’t fit.

(Also, keep in mind that the poor are having more kids than the middle class. They might be unhappy for other reasons.)

Moreover, the happiness of kids is highly variable. At 3 am, when my daughter won’t sleep, my kid is making me extremely unhappy. In the afternoon, when she wakes up from her nap, sees me and gives a great big grin, I’m probably the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. And this applies double over the macro scale. As Yglesias points out:

Whatever else raising children may be, it’s also an expensive and time consuming pain in the ass that sharply limits your flexibility to do a variety of things for a large number of years. One can easily imagine the joys of parenthood being roughly offset by the burdens. But later in life, having a solid relationship with grownup kids and their children seems low-cost and hard-to-replace. Loneliness is very hard on people. To acknowledge that reality isn’t to say we need to get all freaked out if the norm moves from 2-3 kids per family to 1-2 kids per family.

This is one of the biggest reasons I decided to have kids. Because I didn’t want to be a lonely 85 year-old man wishing he had kids. The novel I’m working on deals with precisely this theme. I think of kids as an investment in happiness. They are going to make me extremely miserable between the ages of about 2 and 30. But watching them finish college or get married or have kids of their own will make up for that. Hell, watching my daughter figure out how to yank the power cord of Daddy’s laptop is rewarding. And when I die—hopefully at a very advanced age while in flagrante delicto with someone of very moderate age—it will be of some comfort to know that it wasn’t all for nothing.

OK, that was all just filler. Now we get to the statement that really pissed me off and got me blogging:

Your net carbon impact depends far more on the number of children you will have than any other variable; remember good environmentalism uses a zero rate of discount. So people with no biological children should be allowed to fly a lot and people with lots of biological children should not get to fly so much at all.

I think he’s being ironic (it’s 3 am and I just fed my little happiness investment. Give me a break). But I’ve heard this stated seriously, most often when people were incorrectly freaking out about overpopulation.

Yes, it’s true, my daughter will emit a lot of greenhouse gases over the course of her life. Mostly by breathing.

She might also discover the fundamental breakthrough that leads to nuclear fusion power and the complete abolition of fossil fuels.

You see, the only real capital in the world is human ingenuity and endeavor. We need as much of it as we can get. We could solve global warming by offing our entire race. But that’s not exactly an ideal solution, is it? Well, maybe if you’re a member of PETA, it is.

Oh, one last thing. These projections that our problem in the mid-21st century will be underpopulation because of declining birth rates? Yeah, I call bullshit on that too. These are the same jackasses who were telling us the world was going to be dangerously overpopulated. They were saying this as recently as ten years ago. Anyone who tries to project a half century down the road is playing with Numbers in the Dark. It’s something to keep an eye on (see Security, Social). But formulating panic-laden policy over it is asking for trouble.

Posted by Hal_10000 on 02/29/08 at 12:58 AM (Discuss this in the forums)

Comments

Posted by syddelish on 02/29/08 at 02:46 AM from

We could solve global warming by offing our entire race.

Well, not actually. We’d only stop the human contribution to global warming caused by our breathing. Most other animals breathe as well, so they’d continue to add to it.

Just a thought.

Posted by Jason_Dallas on 02/29/08 at 02:55 AM from

Most other animals breathe as well…

And farts. Don’t forget cow farts.

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 03:07 AM from

How happy are you when you’re old and decrepit… dying alone… yeah thats fuckn fun.

Posted by Thrill on 02/29/08 at 04:16 AM from

This is the best post I have seen on here in a couple of months. Outstanding.

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 05:41 AM from

They are going to make me extremely miserable between the ages of about 2 and 30. But watching them finish college or get married or have kids of their own will make up for that.

A friend of mine claims that people who tell you they love having had children and that you should too are like Amway salesmen,… they feel foolish for having bought the goods so they have to talk you into it to make themselves feel better.

Historically and over most of the world, people have kids because they get pregnant. They get pregnant because well… that drive is plugged straight into the happiness center. Not a lot of planning is involved here.

I’ve observed that couples that don’t have kids young (20s) tend to have them once the woman reaches her mid-thirties - it’s a chemical “Baby Lust”. Most guys don’t care about having kids and many simply don’t want them, however they do want the woman, so they have to deal with the kid baggage.

I don’t buy the “I do it because it’s my duty to the human race” argument… if I buy that, then I’d have to buy the notion that we are part of a greater good, a collective, or a cog in the wheel of some super-human entity called society. Nope, that kind of thinking gets you in no end of trouble.

To think that kids are going to bring you happiness in your old age, you only need to examine how you relate to your parents, and what you think of them. Many of you love your folks and have great relationships, many don’t. There are no guarantees. You might not like your kids and visa versa, it can happen.

The only rational reason you should have kids is because you enjoy the company of children and you like being around them. But I don’t think having kids is about rationality. Kids mostly just happen, and you have to deal with it (especially if you think abortion is a sin.)

IMHO Dogs are much better than children. That’s my solution; I have a house full of dogs.

Posted by Santino on 02/29/08 at 07:09 AM from

In the afternoon, when she wakes up from her nap, sees me and gives a great big grin, I’m probably the happiest I’ve ever been in my life.

I hear you on that one. I have a 13-week old who for the most part is a good baby (doesn’t cry much, sleeps well). Of course she has her moments and I get frustrated, but when she coos at me I feel like a million dollars!

Posted by Hal_10000 on 02/29/08 at 07:41 AM from

A friend of mine claims that people who tell you they love having had children and that you should too are like Amway salesmen,… they feel foolish for having bought the goods so they have to talk you into it to make themselves feel better.

I used to think that too, until I had kids.

I’m not saying that my philosophy should be followed by everyone. I am saying that people have kids for reasons other than advancing their own happiness. The John Stuart Mill type arguments for and against kids don’t carry much weight with me.

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 09:01 AM from

Anxiously awaiting the comments of Seattle Outcast....

They are going to make me extremely miserable between the ages of about 2 and 30.

Nah...not that long. Only until about age 25. :)

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 09:20 AM from

Youar study incorrectly assumes that “hapiness” or how it is affected is the only criteria.

First of all, this study holds as much relevance as todays new study about the health risks (or is it benefits, since there are equal studies on both sides) of drinking coffee.

It also does not factor in the economic realities, kids are expensive. Then you have government interferring like in China and India where you get penalized for over propogating.

Consider also the narcissim factor, throw in a dash of selfishness, and stir with our new found malidy of the need for instant gratification and the choice between kids and the family truckster, or no kids with the porsche and Club Med vacations gets easier to make.

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 10:21 AM from

Anxiously awaiting the comments of Seattle Outcast....

Me too.

I had to be shoved off the ledge on having kids. My wife was ready and I was somewhat indifferent. I seriously could have more easily not had them. But, that all changed.

It actually took me months to get it. My first daughter was probably nine months old before I really started to get into her. Of course, I loved holding her even in the middle of the night but I generally don’t dig babies. They don’t do much for me. Once I started having more tangible interaction with her though, I realized that what was in it for me was that connection to another person.

I have two girls now, 4 and 7. They can still be a major pain in the ass. But, I love talking to them and teaching them things. I love watching them develop and reach new stages. I love them more than I can even express. Seriously, it’s over-the-top love like I never knew I was capable of feeling. And, they think I’m the shizznit. I think that’s what kids are all about; unlocking parts of yourself that you would never know otherwise and having that human interaction as a parent.

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 10:46 AM from

They can still be a major pain in the ass.

Yesterday, my pre-K son got in trouble at school for one of the infractions that parents fear in these overly PC and zero-tolerant times. Thank God he attends at a private daycare where there is still a modicum of sanity.

I was the exception. Having one husband leave me for an 18-year old and another that was an alcoholic, I was content to be childless until I met my wonderful husband at the ripe old age of 36. I was the shooter girl at a singles pool party when we met. In between sloppy kisses and jello shots, he managed to relay how much he loved and wanted kids. With me. Literally, to justify a single date I had to decide to have kids. It was a cosmic joke when we found out on our first anniversary that we were absolutely infertile and would need to adopt.

After all that, it is really mostly good. Hubby does the grocery shopping and my son makes him buy me flowers unless he can steer away from that section. He gave me some of his valentines from school. We have no shortage of people that love to keep him overnight, so our activities are only curtailed in terms of spontaneity. He definitely adds to our lives.

Posted by Hal_10000 on 02/29/08 at 10:51 AM from

I had the same experience, Gripe. My wife and I were in our mid-30’s and decided it was now or never. Both of us were kind of “eh” about kids. But once we had one, we were very happy.

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 10:55 AM from

My daughter will be 30 next week. (ugh, that makes me feel so old, and I can’t even claim the “child bride” thing.) She’s my best friend. I can’t imagine life without her.

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 12:45 PM from

Interesting comments from the once fence sitters, now parents. It seems that most people would agree with you, that you end up loving your kids more than you could have imagined. (Also, folks say they are more work than you could have imagined… but anyway.)

Bertrand Russell, in “A conquest of Happiness” claims that one of the routes to happiness in life is to have kids. He’s a pretty rational guy.

I was talking with a fellow during lunch at a motorcycle sport-bike “track day” (race around a road track as fast as you can on a crotch-rocket - really fucking FUN!) who’s kids had just gotten old enough that he could start doing fun things for himself again (i.e. track days). He didn’t regret having to have given up some of his freedom during the child rearing years - he made this one interesting very interesting comment. He said, one of those perfect days that happens once in a while with your kid, could be fishing, or just going for a walk, or helping them fix a flat or something, can erase an entire year of shit that they give you otherwise. Interesting…

I guess it’s all your perspective, I can’t imagine my life with kids. Frequently my wife and I look at each other, when some parent is dealing with some unruly brat in a shopping mall or something, and we say to each other “Reason number 562 why we aren’t having kids.” It’s amazing how frequently we note this. :-)

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 01:18 PM from

James, see my School Of Rock post from last week. That’s exactly what that fellow was talking about.

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 01:18 PM from

flogg, you never considered invitro?

Frequently my wife and I look at each other, when some parent is dealing with some unruly brat in a shopping mall or something, and we say to each other “Reason number 562 why we aren’t having kids.” It’s amazing how frequently we note this. :-)

It is very rare for a woman who is childless to go her whole life and not experience some form of regret.
I have known a few, some who have remained childless either for medical reasons, some because it would crimp their lifestyle. Some early in life who would wager their left ear that they would never have kids but as they got older, things change.
No couple should have kids unless both want them, but you you keep this status quo, just be prepared in the future, it will manifest itself to some degree.

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 01:20 PM from

Frequently my wife and I look at each other, when some parent is dealing with some unruly brat in a shopping mall or something, and we say to each other “Reason number 562 why we aren’t having kids.”

When one of ours is pitching a fit, I look at my wife with contempt and say, “And you wanted a third.”

:-)

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 01:38 PM from

flogg, you never considered invitro?

The problem (sperm) was not fixable with in vitro alone. Combined with my age (38 at the time), we went with the “safe” option. Besides, I got to keep my girly figure :) ...

Posted by on 02/29/08 at 01:41 PM from