Buying Tea
by Hal_10000
My hope for the tea party movement has long been that it would crystallize around a set of concrete issues to brandish against both parties. Tax reform, for example, or serious budget cuts (including entitlements and defense) or market-oriented healthcare reform.
My fear for the tea party movement, on the other hand, has been that it would get hijacked by lunatics, political opportunists or both. This weekend Tea Party convention ticked those fears up a notch.
First, the lunatics. There were plenty to be found, from Roy “death to homos” Moore to Tom Tancredo. But the low point was Joseph Farah giving a warmly received speech in which he trumpeted birtherism. Libertarian Dave Weigel has some details about a confrontation Farah had with Andrew Breitbart afterward (after calling Weigel a Marxist and the Washington Independent a socialist newspaper).
[Breitbart said], “We have a lot of strong arguments to be making, and that is a primary argument. That is an argument for the primaries that did not take hold. The arguments that these people right here are making are substantive arguments. The elections in Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusetts were all won not on birther, but on substance. And to apply to this group of people the concept that they’re all obsessed with the birth certificate, when it’s not a winning issue–they’re all obsessed with the birth certificate, when it’s not a winning issue–”
“It is a winning issue!”
“It’s not a winning issue.”
“It is! It becomes even more of a winning issue when the press abrogates its responsibility–”
“You don’t recognize it as a fundamentally controversial issue that forces a unified group of people to have to break into different parts? It is a schism of the highest order.”
“Nothing exposes the president’s–”
“Then prove it!”
“The press isn’t asking the question–”
“Prove it!”
“Prove what?”
“Prove your case.”
“I should prove, what, a birth certificate that may or may not exist?” Farah had gotten irritated. “That’s ridiculous. You don’t even understand the fundamental tenets of what journalism is about, Andrew. It’s not about proving things. It’s about asking questions and seeking truth.”
Breitbart tensed up after that insult. “Right.”
When Andrew Breitbart is the sane one, we’re in trouble. I have no idea why a “journalist” like Farah, whose website started well but has become increasingly unhinged, was invited to speak. But now the Tea Party movement is contaminated with his birther lunacy. Thanks a lot.
Yes, there were plenty of people there who were not indulging in raging lunacy. But which narrative do you think the MSM is going to pick up? The radicalism of Moore, Tancredo and Farah? Or the sensibility of anyone else.
The highlight of the conference was last night’s speech by Sarah Palin. Wearing both an Israeli and American flag, she delivered a standard GOP boilerplate speech that had no substance but plenty of snarky attacks on the President unworthy of a third-rate blog. The lustily cheered speech—which I watched with increasing dismay—was so much a Republican campaign speech that at least one commenter thinks this spells the beginning of the end of the parties:
The tea party movement is dead. The one I was familiar with anyway. Judson Phillips held it down and Sarah Palin drove a stake right through its heart live last night on C-Span in front of an unsuspecting audience.
Sarah Palin didn’t give a tea party speech last night. She gave a partisan Republican address. It was a purely political speech designed to position her for a presidential run in 2012 or 2016. Period. She wasn’t there to celebrate the organic nature of a movement she had nothing to do with creating. She was there to co-opt the name and claim the brand as hers. And she did.
The movement, that came to be officially recognized almost a year ago but whose roots go back further than that, has been snuffed out and replaced in the public mind. The movement that began as a people’s movement of angry independent, libertarians and conservatives will now be thought as the movement of people like Palin, Dick Armey, Judson Phillips, Mark Skoda, etc. Essentially, a wholly owned subsidiary of the “Official Conservative Movement” and the Republican Party.
He then throws up his hands:
But the media now have their definition of what it means to be Tea Party. This convention gave them simplistic nativism, birtherism, media bashing, homophobia, and a heavy does of neoconservative foreign policy.
...
And that is no tea party at all.
I’m not that pessimistic. I think ... OK, maybe hope is the right word ... that this will serve to calve off some less useful parts of the tea party movement. A certain portion can scuttle back to the Republican Party—they were clearly never comfortable being out in the big wide political world on their own. Another can scuttle over to Farah and his brand of crazies. Maybe we can send them all to Kenya to dig up birth documents.
The rest—the beating heart of this country’s conservative temperament—will continue to push on, to hold both parties accountable and to find sensible policies to promote. With or without an official movement or a media-approved leader, we continue to circle Washington and will continue to toss politicians out off office until they get the message—the real message, not some dry-cleaned political bullshit and certainly not some crazy conspiracy theories.
That’s the hope anyway.
Post Scriptum: Sarah Palin joked, once again, about Obama’s use of a teleprompter. I dunno, Sarah, it could be worse. Instead of handling nearly an hour of questions from the opposing party extemporaneously, he could be responding to softball questions with cheat notes on his hand like a high school debate club member.
Do you really needs a note to tell you to “lift American spirits”?
Comments
I felt for Sarah in the fact that I think she was unfairly bashed in the media and by the Left in general in her personal life beyond what others in politics have had to put up with, but I wish she’d go away. Her time has come and gone for political leadership. There needs to be a movement of fiscal conservatism, and Palin, along with ultra religious homophobe nuts, and conspiracy birthers keep fucking infecting everything.
The good news is the Left will eat this up and get back on their bandwagon of America in general is made up of racist retards and can’t measure up to the intellectualism of the Left, but that’s a good thing because that will get their asses handed to them come November, as America is in no mood for their arrogance. That’s a fatal flaw the Left can’t and won’t ever figure out. Most want a fiscal conservative reasonable government, and I think now they’ll just keep tossing whoever is in office until they get that.
It looks like the fiscal conservative will have to make a run for it again, and form something new. That’s fine though. They should keep doing that until the crap that gets in the way is filtered out. It’s clear now the social conservative can’t live without the fiscal one since they keep following the fiscal conservative wherever they run to and regroup. It’s time for the fiscal conservatives to start laying the ground rules, and if any social conservatives want to latch on they should keep their mouths shut, and not the other way around. Then well see some real change in this country. The fight isn’t near an end because the underlying factors of reckless government both by the social conservative GOP and the Democrats is still there. If the heads of the Tea Party are smart, they’ll issue a statement that while they believe in free speech, they don’t condone some of the speakers and their ideas.
I used to be a more hard core supporter of the Libertarian movement, but where has their leadership been? They stand on the sidelines as usual.
Gee, who read Excitable Andy today and decided to crib his blog post?
The attacks on Palin say more about the attackers these days than they do about Sarah. And this latest one is maybe the single most pathetic attempt at slinging mud yet. She she made some last minute notes on points she wanted to stress, and somehow that is a commentary on her fucking intellect?
It’s fucking weak, and anyone who isn’t obsessed with Palin’s vagina can see that.
When Andrew Breitbart is the sane one, we’re in trouble.
Huh? I’ve always liked Breitbart. He’s not a loon, and through his work at the Drudge Report, helping to start up the Huffington Post, and now the “Big” sites and the ACORN vids, he’s had a pretty impressive impact on our politics. He’s always seemed like a down-to-earth, likeable dude on top of it. I remember watching him on the goofy first episodes of Red Eye a few years back…
he could be responding to softball questions with cheat notes on his hand like a high school debate club member.
Oh for the love of christ HAL, that is fucking weak!. I just did go and look at the pictures from the event, and to cal them Cheat cheat sheet is dishonest.
the Libertarian Leadership, for the lack of a better term is chock full of nutjobs too.I used to be a more hard core supporter of the Libertarian movement, but where has their leadership been? They stand on the sidelines as usual.
When Andrew Breitbart is the sane one, we’re in trouble.
I seen the man in person speak, i actually like his style and energy.
Hal,
I think the Tea party-ers are made up of two groups. One is the old group of Ross Perot voters who really care about government spending and more importantly deficit spending and the other half are the birther crowd who really just hate dems and BO. The thing is the Perot voters support policies that i think i a lot of americans do as well and it is that subgroup that needs to step in up and bring leadership to the tea party movement.
d
the Libertarian Leadership, for the lack of a better term is chock full of nutjobs too
It has its share, but like the Tea Party, or the original concept of it anyhow has an ideology that I believe makes sense on the whole. I figure I agree with at least 80%, and that’s about as much as anyone should have to agree with anything, that’s why I was more supportive of the party. Having been to a few LP meetings though in my younger days, they aren’t motivated to take the lead. I thought maybe by now, and with a golden opportunity they’d make a stand, but no such deal.
the Libertarian Leadership, for the lack of a better term is chock full of nutjobs too.
When Stern ran in NY on the LP ticket I was working for the ALbany station. I drove half of them to the “convention” in a camper. I went inside and heard the NYS LP leadership “debating” actual issues for hours before Stern started his circus.
Now, granted that is not exactly a perfect representation of the national LP, but man. The nutbags in that room turned me off to the Big L Libertarian Party forever.
Gee, who read Excitable Andy today and decided to crib his blog post?
I usually skip any of his posts that have to do with Sarah Palin since he’s completely bonkers on the subject.
Sullivan has never liked the tea party movement and has completely failed to see the people that are behind it rather than the fringe crazies.
I’ve mostly been laying off Palin lately because I think she’s run her course. She’s popular with a part of the party but has no broad-based appeal. Sullivan thinks she’s the herald of the apocalypse.
Huh? I’ve always liked Breitbart. He’s not a loon, and through his work at the Drudge Report, helping to start up the Huffington Post, and now the “Big” sites and the ACORN vids, he’s had a pretty impressive impact on our politics. He’s always seemed like a down-to-earth, likeable dude on top of it. I remember watching him on the goofy first episodes of Red Eye a few years back…
I agree. You can tell from the confrontation with Farah that we was the more gracious one. What I mean is that Breitbart is out there against the MSM breaking big stories. He’s certainly not mainstream.
A British man may have his house demolished because it wasn’t cleared with the planning commission? WTF? can anyone or our British friends make heads or tails of this?
An idiot built a fucking castle while hiding it behind huge piles of hay and tarps. He knew it was against the zoning laws so he didn’t even try to get approval. He kept it hidden because the law said if it stayed for a certain time period then he could keep it. He was discovered and will have to have it demolished because he shouldn’t have built it in the first place. Unless you are totally opposed to zoning laws (and therefore would be just fine with a chemical plant or sexual predator housing opening up next door to your home) then you have to see that the guy deserves to have his little project demolished.
I’ve mostly been laying off Palin lately because I think she’s run her course. She’s popular with a part of the party but has no broad-based appeal. Sullivan thinks she’s the herald of the apocalypse.
I think Palin doesn’t run in 2012 but becoems something of a kingmaker. Her endorsement will be important, possible the most important one in the primaries.
This is an absolutely true fucking story. I shit you not, dear readers.
When I was at Yale I was finishing up a year long survey course in the plays of Shakespeare - the very course that would settle me on becoming a Shakespearean scholar. One fine day our TA for my class’ discussion section thought it would be a bright idea to split the class into pairs and have us act a scene, any scene, from one of the thirteen plays we were covering that term. I got a random partner, and as luck would have it, she dropped the fucking class not two weeks before we were to perform our scene.
What’s left? Well, one of the great soliloquies, of course, and in my infinite hubris I decided I was going to perform Ophelia’s mad scene from Hamlet. Yes, that mad scene, the one that fells actresses on a daily basis. And I have to say… for a scholar-not-actor, I had it down pretty damn well. I had all the dialogue down… save for one pesky problem. You see, there are two *songs* in the middle of Ophelia’s mad scene… and I could not, for the fucking life of me, memorize them. I kept screwing up the order and I thought I was doomed, until I realized that if I could just prompt myself with the first line of each song I was able to remember the songs and get them right.
So what did I do? Well, what do you think I did? I wrote the first line of each song on my left hand. And I walked into the classroom, wearing a tattered sheet for a costume no less, and acted the fuck out of that scene, and when it came time for the songs, I looked at my left hand and sang away. Writing those lines on my hand saved my ass that day. I got a A on the assignment, and my TA thought it was hilarious when I showed her my hand.
Now, dear readers, I submit this to you and ask… does the fact that I had to write those two lines on my hand make the fact that I performed Ophelia’s mad scene any less true or impressive or cool? Does it make me less of a Shakespearean scholar that TO THIS DAY I cannot remember those fucking songs without prompting? Do you think less of me to know that I needed to write “Hey nonny nonny” on my hand to ensure I gave the best damn performance I could that day? I’m wagering you don’t think less of me for that, and so I would ask why you would think less of Sarah Palin for a far less grievous offense?
Just a thought....
WTF is with Palin wearing both the American and Israeli flags, anyway?
WTF is with Palin wearing both the American and Israeli flags, anyway?
Yeah good Question WTF was she trying to do there?
An idiot built a fucking castle while hiding it behind huge piles of hay and tarps. He knew it was against the zoning laws so he didn’t even try to get approval
I got that, but Why the fuck would a home like that not be approved? From the pictures i saw it sure didnt look like a crowded area or a obscene building.
Now, dear readers, I submit this to you and ask… does the fact that I had to write those two lines on my hand make the fact that I performed Ophelia’s mad scene any less true or impressive or cool? Does it make me less of a Shakespearean scholar that TO THIS DAY I cannot remember those fucking songs without prompting? Do you think less of me to know that I needed to write “Hey nonny nonny” on my hand to ensure I gave the best damn performance I could that day? I’m wagering you don’t think less of me for that, and so I would ask why you would think less of Sarah Palin for a far less grievous offense?
My comments was more of a jab than an honest to God criticism.
(And apologies, Donna, if I ramble a bit here. I’m not being a jerk; I’m just thinking out loud about why the note thing bothered me.)
There’s a difference between what you did and what she did. You were trying to memorize difficult lines in a play. She was trying to remember her basic political talking points, something a professional politician should be able to do without notes. It’s as if someone asked you what your favorite plays were and you wrote them on your hand (and kept consulting them).
And you didn’t cap it off with snide remarks about your opponent using a prompter. And you didn’t have a history, as Palin does, of lying about reciting a speech purely from memory (her RNC vice presidential speech).
Let me counter with a different example. When I was on the debate club (yes, I was one of those guys), I would take notes during my opponent’s talks of points I needed to address. And I had index cards with critical facts I needed to cite and sources. That was legitimate. But I did not need to write down what my position was.
Example: the year I was most active, we were debating central american policy. My position was that we should support the Contras and oppose communist insurgency. My argument was three-fold: Cuba was already exporting political instability and supporting guerilla movements; Nicaragua was oppressing their people; Nicaragua was beginning to export political instability to neighboring countries like Honduras. I can still remember those points twenty years later.
Turn this around. If, during the 2008 Presidential season, you saw that Obama had written on his hand, “Stimulus. Healthcare reform. Wall Street Main Street. Iraq Afghanistan” would you have laughed it off? Can you imagine Reagan having “Cut taxes. Beat Russians. Deregulate” on his hand?
She was trying to remember her basic political talking points, something a professional politician should be able to do without notes.
Maybe her appeal to so many is that she isn’t one of those “professional politicians”? There are only a few things I hate more than “professional politicians”. I think we are as royally screwed as we are today precisely because of smooth talking know it all “professional politicians”. You know, the kind that think we peasants are to stupid to know what’s best for us and all that.
And I am wondering about Sullivan’s hard-on for Palin. For someone that is into dudes he sure obsesses about Palin way more than he should. Is he jealous or something?
The thing about Palin is that I understand the appeal. Sullivan completely misreads her thinking that it’s about her looks or something. It’s more about, as you say, the perception that she’s not a professional politico and is an outsider.
I understand that appeal, believe me. But there a lot of politicians who bank on precisely that appeal. Even Hillary Clinton, as laughable as it was, tried to pass of as an outsider with her “listening tour”
But there’s a difference between not being a professional politician and not being versed in the issues or not investing them with much thought. To take but one example, Jesse Ventura was not a professional politician (and how), but he knew the issues. Perot was not a professional politician, but he knew the issues. Even Reagan, with his degree from Eureka college and his background as an actor, was intensely intellectually curious and was always eager for ideas.
There’s something to what Buckley said about wanting to be governed by a random selection of Americans as opposed to the faculty of Harvard. But there’s a happy middle ground between ignorance and being an egg-head know it all (e.g., Algore).
There’s a difference between what you did and what she did. You were trying to memorize difficult lines in a play. She was trying to remember her basic political talking points, something a professional politician should be able to do without notes. It’s as if someone asked you what your favorite plays were and you wrote them on your hand (and kept consulting them).
Actually, if you think about it, what I did was more egregious. I’m a Shakespearean scholar. It’s my DUTY to be able to memorize long passages of Shakespeare without difficulty. I assure you, if you’ve never seen or been in a Shakespearean debate you lose serious credibility for not remembering something as basic as what order Ophelia’s songs go in.
Sarah Palin isn’t a career politician. She was at an event where she knew things could get unpredictable and emotions would run high. She knew there were three things she wanted to make sure she talked about, so she wrote them on her hand in case she wandered off point for too long. I happen to think it was a stroke of genius and applaud her for it. I’d be a hypocrite otherwise.
And you didn’t cap it off with snide remarks about your opponent using a prompter. And you didn’t have a history, as Palin does, of lying about reciting a speech purely from memory (her RNC vice presidential speech).
Like HELL I didn’t! I made snide remarks and made snarky jokes for every pair of students that needed a copy of their play to do their scene (and there were a lot of them). Needing a couple of prompts - okay. Needing the whole play? Ridiculous. And I *do*, as I said, have a history - and a duty - to memorize and recite long passages from memory.
Once again… how are the situations different?
Let me counter with a different example. When I was on the debate club (yes, I was one of those guys), I would take notes during my opponent’s talks of points I needed to address. And I had index cards with critical facts I needed to cite and sources. That was legitimate. But I did not need to write down what my position was.
That may be true. But I bet you had an outline of sorts of what order you wanted to present your points in or how you wanted to make your argument. That’s all Palin’s notes were - a three line outline of what she wanted to address and how she wanted to end. Tell me again why that’s so bad?
Example: the year I was most active, we were debating central american policy. My position was that we should support the Contras and oppose communist insurgency. My argument was three-fold: Cuba was already exporting political instability and supporting guerilla movements; Nicaragua was oppressing their people; Nicaragua was beginning to export political instability to neighboring countries like Honduras. I can still remember those points twenty years later.
I can still remember, word for every word, the entire Queen Mab speech from Act I scene 4 of Romeo and Juliet, which I memorized in *9TH GRADE*. I still cannot remember Ophelia’s mad songs. So… do I lose my status as a scholar yet, or does it mean that I just have a lot of trouble with Shakespeare’s songs and need help remembering them?
Turn this around. If, during the 2008 Presidential season, you saw that Obama had written on his hand, “Stimulus. Healthcare reform. Wall Street Main Street. Iraq Afghanistan” would you have laughed it off? Can you imagine Reagan having “Cut taxes. Beat Russians. Deregulate” on his hand?
I’ll be totally honest. I would much prefer Obama to be human enough to scribble notes on his hand than to use the teleprompters like he does. I cannot stand how he relies on those fucking things and I would see it as a sign of humanity if he dropped them and instead just wrote three lines on his hand to make sure he hit those three points. That’s a human thing to do. The teleprompters are the act of someone who either doesn’t care enough to remember what he needs to say or can’t remember it. Both are deplorable to me.
I rambled in my reply as well - sorry for that. But I hope you see more now what I’m trying to get at. :)
But there’s a difference between not being a professional politician and not being versed in the issues or not investing them with much thought.
So again, you basically give a run around and in the end decide the intellectual is still your choice, Hal? Think it through. How many normal people have well versed opinions on practically every possible subject? It comes across as quite condescending that you think she is neither well versed nor put much time thinking things over. I disagree with that notion. In fact, I get a lot more pissed when those professional politicians spend a half hour blowing smoke up my rear end and pretend they have a clue. Take away the briefings, cue cards, or teleprompters, from most of these knowledgeable politicians and most of them are Joe Biden incarnate anyway. We are after all talking about the same idiots that wanted to pass a healthcare takeover bill that would put the government in charge of 1/5th of our economy without reading the details of the idiotic thing.
But there’s a happy middle ground between ignorance and being an egg-head know it all (e.g., Algore).
I see your problem. You have already decided, or maybe you have had Sullivan decide that for you, that Palin is ignorant. And Al Gore is no egg head. This guy is so stupid he could not even graduate divinity school. I have a higher opinion of Biden than I do of Gore. In fact, I know there is a God in heaven that watches over fools, kids, and the US of A, because Gore lost the 2000 election and could not use an army of lawyers and the supreme court of Florida to steal it either. I will give him credit for making oodles of money bamboozling stupid people into buying green credits from him though, but then again, how smart do you have to be to make cash from a rigged game?
Say, weren’t’ you impressed with another used car salesman that currently resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue too? Dude thinks he knows so much, but he is a complete bumbling idiot when it comes to how the real world works.
She was trying to remember her basic political talking points, something a professional politician should be able to do without notes.
Hal, I think we agree (or maybe we don’t) that she’s damaged goods especially after bailing out of her job back in Alaska, and I think it’s nuts to be chanting the invade Iran war drum, but seriously, she’s not the president. Hell, she didn’t even run for president. This was the first election I have ever seen where it was a presidential candidate running against a VP. How pathetic. The one who is president is the one who we were all told was Jesus’ mentor. I don’t see anything wrong with telling him to take the training wheels off and who cares who says it. He got the job for his supposed intellectual prowess, not just being one IQ point ahead of Palin.
A blast from the past: When the training wheels fell off.
I got that, but Why the fuck would a home like that not be approved? From the pictures i saw it sure didnt look like a crowded area or a obscene building.
When was the last time such choices from gov’t agencies had anything to do with actual facts or logic. It’s all about who you know or how much money you have to grease the wheels with.
You should see the crap I’ve seen and heard of at Lake Sunapee, NH where my relatives have a really old cabin. It’s both a summer place on the lake and a skiing resort in winter on the mountain. Because of crazy strict rules (all for “preservation” of course) it’s gotten to where there are only 2 types of owners anymore: Really old family lines (we fit this one) or insanely wealthy. Basically you have to have huge amounts of money to upgrade or fix anything. Rules exist like if your dock is destroyed (usually ice) you have 1 summer to fix it… if you don’t, no dock in the future. It’s so that a crappy cottage with a nice dock is worth more then a much larger place without one.
Weird things come into play too like rain run-off from the roof. One cousin teaches architecture and has had classes over the years help redesign the cottage to room so he’s had tons of ideas for fixes. Even when he’s tried to get any approved, things like the exact same drop, just from 2 levels of roof to 1, were deemed not ok because the house is close to the lake and the change in runoff would effect the ecology.. or some other lame crap. If we’d had piles of dough, I’m sure we could’ve done it (the HUGE places seem to have no problems getting such things ok’d).
I’m all for preservation of natural beauty, but there needs to be a balance. There also needs to be fairness that doesn’t give people with more money freedom to do what they want and screws everyone else.
Oh.. and don’t even get me started on the insane property tax rates there.
HAL_SULLIVAN .10000000,
She gave a 45 minute speech and had 7 or 8 words written on her hand.
Dishonest INDEED.
Whats wrong with using a teleprompter?
I’m serious in this one. I’m writing speeches for a cabinet minister at the moment, and everything that he says is written by me and my team. We even have notes for him for Q&A;’s and panels. My guy reads from an A4 file, but I’d love it if he was able to use a teleprompter.
The reason for this, is that each speech takes days of preperation to write, and hours of agonising over language. Each phrase has to be checked and re checked in case it could be misinterpreted. And not just for PR reasons, for legal reasons too. If my guy deviates from the script, thene there is a real risk he could accidentally phrase something the wrong way, and once something comes out of his mouth it becomes as concrete as policy. It is very important, and not something you take a chance with.
(The other reason is the fact checking angle - with the pure amount of stuff my guy has to do on a daily basis, remembering facts, and figures to support an argument is just impossible.)
Most of the great speeches were written. And I would guess that most of them were read too. If the technology allows for Obama to keep his head up whilst reading, then whats wrong with that?
With the Sarah Palin thing - it is unfortunate that it was written on her hand, as it looks slapdash, but it doesn’t really matter. If her speech was nonsense, then we could point to that as supporting proof that she didn’t know what she was talking about, but it isn’t the absolute proof. And from what I hear, her speech wasn’t half bad (say what you like about palin, she can make a speech)
Her Speech was boiler plate, she did not present any new ideas or any details on policy.
She had a few words written on her hand, big deal. Shes just a ex Governor who has delusions of Grandeur.
Obama has a whole script on a teleprompter and cant continue if it has a hiccup. HE is president of the United States, and supposedly the greatest smarted most suave intellectual we ever had in the office.
Whats wrong with using a teleprompter?
Absolutely nothing britishcress, unless you have people trying to convince everybody else that you are a genius because of your oratory skills and that depth of your knowledge is unending, except when the teleprompter breaks you sound like a complete moron without it.
The issue with Obama isn’t that he uses a teleprompter. It is that the left wants us to believe he can walk on water - he is a great intellectual and so smart too - because he is great at delivering other people’s words and knowledge from a teleprompter. Without it, we see the real Obama is dumber than the those that people that believe like Obama look down upon and criticize.
I’m serious in this one. I’m writing speeches for a cabinet minister at the moment, and everything that he says is written by me and my team. We even have notes for him for Q&A;’s and panels. My guy reads from an A4 file, but I’d love it if he was able to use a teleprompter.
As long as you understand that the skill in question is the ability to use a teleprompter and orate, and don’t claim your cabinet minister is an all knowing genius because he can deliver speeches written by others, flawlessly from a teleprompter, there isn’t much to see here. But when you want people to believe that simply because someone is a smooth talker they are also a genius and we should do whatever they tell us, no matter how stupid the idea, some of us are going to balk at it.
Perhaps thats why I (in the UK that is) don’t get the criticism. I’ve never thought he was trying to convince me of his superhuman intellect and oratory skills, it was more like “He uses a teleprompter, just like everyone does.”
As long as you understand that the skill in question is the ability to use a teleprompter and orate, and don’t claim your cabinet minister is an all knowing genius because he can deliver speeches written by others, flawlessly from a teleprompter, there isn’t much to see here.
Actually this guy is pretty brilliant. He’s an excellent orator, and hugely smart, with a deep political knowledge, and an impressive grasp of his department (given that he’s only been in this job 6 months).
But he isn’t someone who can memorise a 20 minute speech every single day, and no one expects him to be.
Your comment that :"he can deliver speeches written by others, flawlessly from a teleprompter” is a little misleading - unless you are suggesting that I am making UK policy!! I assure you the speech is all his - I’m just responsibe for the wordplay.
I guess I don’t get the teleprompter ire, because, well, thats how it works. Politician has to make a comment about something, the speechwriters and the politician write some comments, and the politician says them.
(Again, I’m talking about British politics here, and I may have erroneously assumed the US is the same...did Bush and Regan use a speechwriting staff?)
Actually this guy is pretty brilliant. He’s an excellent orator, and hugely smart, with a deep political knowledge, and an impressive grasp of his department (given that he’s only been in this job 6 months).
Almost Godlike. It’s been a year by the way.
You may not remember that McCain was ridiculed to some extent for using que cards. Then it turned out Obama had to have the entire speech sitting on a teleprompter.
Fact is this guy was sold a being the closest thing to a Messiah that you could get. Flawless, and any little thing anyone else did was because they were stooooopid. Even if it was stupid like a few notes on your hand or some cue cards, it was still spun that way. It still goes on today, but the public has caught on and that’s good enough for me.
Look at the link I posted above. His teleprompter goes out while he’s touting his healthcare program, and we couldn’t even remember what the fuck it was he was talking about. Yet we were all supposed to understand it. Yes brilliant.
Even if it was stupid like a few notes
.. Should be wasn’t
S8 - I was talking about the guy I work for, not Obama - sorry if that wasn’t clear.
S8 - I was talking about the guy I work for, not Obama - sorry if that wasn’t clear.
You were. My reading comprehension is shit today :)
S8 - I was talking about the guy I work for, not Obama - sorry if that wasn’t clear.
I got that britishcress, but then again, Section8’s comment about how those on the left that use cues are still geniuses, but those on the tight that do something similar are showing how stupid/ignorant/lacking in curiostiy/uninformed, at least here in the US, is valid no matter who he is addressing in his answer.
Actually this guy is pretty brilliant. He’s an excellent orator, and hugely smart, with a deep political knowledge, and an impressive grasp of his department (given that he’s only been in this job 6 months).
What kind of real life experience does he have outside the public sector? I have found that the less experience these people have in the real world, the higher they rank themselves on the intellectual/intelligence ladder. You usually get pap like this, which they want you to take seriously.
The reason for this, is that each speech takes days of preperation to write, and hours of agonising over language. Each phrase has to be checked and re checked in case it could be misinterpreted. And not just for PR reasons, for legal reasons too. If my guy deviates from the script, thene there is a real risk he could accidentally phrase something the wrong way, and once something comes out of his mouth it becomes as concrete as policy. It is very important, and not something you take a chance with.
You basically just spelled out a huge part of exactly what’s wrong with politics today. Don’t you think the fact that people see all the points above as very important as seriously fucked up, broken system? People basically can’t talk without a script because just the wrong word or phrase could result in huge problems?!?
Damn we need to seriously fix this crap.
The Democrats made their own bed. Obama set up an all-or-nothing proposition and he’s losing. That sucks for them. The question is, “How do the Republicans respond?” I’m hoping they come together under some common umbrella. I think the Ryan plan is a good start.
You basically just spelled out a huge part of exactly what’s wrong with politics today. Don’t you think the fact that people see all the points above as very important as seriously fucked up, broken system? People basically can’t talk without a script because just the wrong word or phrase could result in huge problems?!?
A couple of points:
Firstly, - ‘politics today’ – Politicians have had speechwriters for 90 years. “Ask not what your country can do for you…” was by Ted Sorensen, when Challenger exploded, Regan read out Peggy Noonans words, and there is some evidence that George Washinton was reading Hamiltons words in his farewell address. It’s been going on a long time is my point.
Secondly, have you ever tried to memorise a speech? Donna’s post about learning her Shakespeare above is great. (Its about the toughest female speech there is!) – but imagine having to do a different speech every single day – and throw in some James Joyce, some Schiller and some Pinter in there too.
My point is that the time it takes to write and memorise speeches is better spent doing other things.
Thirdly, it isn’t like politicians just read out the speeches that the writers just decide to write. There aren’t a bunch of shadowy speechwriters making secretly making policy through the nefarious use of prose. The speech is absolutely what the politician wants to say – just a bit prettier, that’s all.
And as for the last part – the blogosphere runs on picking apart the language of what people say. And there are often legal issues around using certain phrases over other phrases. Honestly, you’d be surprised how restricted you are in what words you use where!!
I guess all I am saying is that I really don’t see it as an issue at all. If the left are setting him up as the best thing since sliced bread, then lets make fun of them. Obama is using pre written speech, just like every politician does. There is really more wrong with him than the teleprompter thing.
And I just took half a page to explain that, and I’m still not sure I’m making myself clear. Maybe theres a role for me on the Obama speechwriting staff….
Firstly, - ‘politics today’ – Politicians have had speechwriters for 90 years. “Ask not what your country can do for you…” was by Ted Sorensen, when Challenger exploded, Regan read out Peggy Noonans words, and there is some evidence that George Washinton was reading Hamiltons words in his farewell address. It’s been going on a long time is my point.
I didn’t mean to imply that it was only very recently, nor do I have a problem with pre-writing speeches for specific times. What seems to have changed in the last few decades, and you seem to indicate this somewhat with the “memorise a 20 minute speech every single day” is that too many politicians apparently can’t open their mouths without a fully prepared speech at the ready anymore. This seems like a really bad place to be.
Secondly, have you ever tried to memorise a speech?
Uh, yeah, who hasn’t? However, I remember that even back in speech classes in school, one important thing we were always taught was that you should never just read a full speech. Yet that’s basically all that many politicians do anymore. so many of them can’t function without a fully prepared speech anymore, just look at how much of a bumbling idiot Obama is when his prompters fail. Bush used to get slammed in the media for sounding bad.. Obama is just as bad, if not worse, when his prompters go out.
Before it’s even asked.. yes, I’ve had to do plenty of presentations and such at work over the years. So it wasn’t just speech classes during my school years. :)
Oh and you mentioned what DonnaK posted.. you’ll note she talked about a few notes to jog her memory, not writing out the entire monologue (or even just the songs she had a hard time remembering).
And as for the last part – the blogosphere runs on picking apart the language of what people say. And there are often legal issues around using certain phrases over other phrases. Honestly, you’d be surprised how restricted you are in what words you use where!!
I know this is how things are now, and that’s exactly what I think is sad if not outright scary.
Oh, BTW, There was a made for TV movie back in the early-mid 90’s on Fox called Lifepod that I’m reminded of. Robert Loggia was a politician in that film and I recall a quote about how a blind character could hear in his voice that he’d had some kind of surgery on his voice box to help modify his voice specifically in a way to make it sound better in speeches. I mention this because it doesn’t seem all that far fetched that a politician would do something like this anymore.
Politics has become so much more a game of show business instead of actually doing the right thing.
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How quickly they soured us on their ideology, huh?
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Mark_M: The average American is so fucking stupid I don’t give us much hope. I'll paraphrase a great line from Dennis Miller ..."The American people are so stupid...of course, I know better than them. But then again I DO have a bachelor's in communications from Tallahassee Junior College."
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How quickly they soured us on their ideology, huh?
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Seattle Outcast: Get that sand washed out yet muirgeo1?
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I haven’t been following the TEA PARTY convention, it was bound to be a joke, especially after Pailn was invited to speak.
IF the Wackos from the Republican party take over the TEA PARTY movement, then its all over, Obama will get his 2nd term and American will further dive into socialism.