What Went On
by Lee
You’ve probably never heard of Army Major General Antonio M. Taguba. He investigated Abu Ghraib.
Rumsfeld was vague, in his appearances before Congress, about when he had informed the President about Abu Ghraib, saying that it could have been late January or early February. He explained that he routinely met with the President “once or twice a week . . . and I don’t keep notes about what I do.” He did remember that in mid-March he and General Myers were “meeting with the President and discussed the reports that we had obviously heard” about Abu Ghraib.
Whether the President was told about Abu Ghraib in January (when e-mails informed the Pentagon of the seriousness of the abuses and of the existence of photographs) or in March (when Taguba filed his report), Bush made no known effort to forcefully address the treatment of prisoners before the scandal became public, or to reëvaluate the training of military police and interrogators, or the practices of the task forces that he had authorized.
Strange, isn’t it. If you were president, and this came across your desk, wouldn’t you immediately spring into action to do something about it? Of course you would, unless you were complicit in it because you had authorized it.
Instead, Bush acquiesced in the prosecution of a few lower-level soldiers. The President’s failure to act decisively resonated through the military chain of command: aggressive prosecution of crimes against detainees was not conducive to a successful career.
But wait, there’s more.
“They always shoot the messenger,” Taguba told me. “To be accused of being overzealous and disloyal—that cuts deep into me. I was being ostracized for doing what I was asked to do.”
Taguba went on, “There was no doubt in my mind that this stuff”—the explicit images—“was gravitating upward. It was standard operating procedure to assume that this had to go higher. The President had to be aware of this.” He said that Rumsfeld, his senior aides, and the high-ranking generals and admirals who stood with him as he misrepresented what he knew about Abu Ghraib had failed the nation.
“From the moment a soldier enlists, we inculcate loyalty, duty, honor, integrity, and selfless service,” Taguba said. “And yet when we get to the senior-officer level we forget those values. I know that my peers in the Army will be mad at me for speaking out, but the fact is that we violated the laws of land warfare in Abu Ghraib. We violated the tenets of the Geneva Convention. We violated our own principles and we violated the core of our military values. The stress of combat is not an excuse, and I believe, even today, that those civilian and military leaders responsible should be held accountable.”
There are all too many people, a number of whom participate right here on this blog, who continue to make the asinine claim that the president didn’t know that there was torture going on, that he didn’t authorize torture, that the United States doesn’t torture, and that the junior enlisted grunts now spending 10 or 20 years in prison were the responsible parties.
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Comments
I doubt it. Suppose the UN was to convene a war crimes trial. The US would have to turn over Rummy, Cheney, Bush, etc. to the court. And the administration has done a good job making a lot of laws retroactive to make it so that there isn’t any real way that they could be so turned over. In other words, it’s like a criminal who has to be arrested by the police and turned over to the court, but the criminal has made it so that the police are unable to arrest him.
No, these guys will disappear into the history books, leaving a wide swath of devastation in their wake,
And the administration has done a good job making a lot of laws retroactive to make it so that there isn’t any real way that they could be so turned over.
Then call for Bush’s impeachment. As long as you keep repeating the same things, I will too.
I’ve responded to that over and over and over, Thrill. You’re a fucking twit. You just regurgitate the same crap over and over, and I’m not your fucking lapdog to dance at your command.
Seriously, wouldn’t you be happier over at Drumwasters blog, sucking dicks with everyone else over there who got their ass handed to them over this issue? Come on, I read the comments. The whole cast of characters is there, talking about what a fucking dickhead I am. Trust me, you’ll feel right at home.
You’re heading down the same road as Griz. You don’t come here to debate or discuss or refute, you just come here to annoy me and piss me off. That gets you plonked. Then, after you get plonked, you end up over at Drumwasters talking about what a meanie poopoohead I am because I plonk anyone who disagrees with me.
It’s oh-so typical. Come on, dance for me, monkey boy.
You’ve probably never heard of Army Major General Antonio M. Taguba.
Wasn’t he forced to step down after kindly pointing out that we were torturing people in Abu Ghirab and it wasn’t right?
there are also HUGE gaps in what we paid for Iraqi security and what was actually delivered to the Iraqi people. Our money. Major General pointed out a few of those nasty details and was whacked with a stick.
You know.....I don’t ever think I said one bad word about anyone here. Trolls notwithstanding.
That is not reciprocated....unfortunately.
And I won’t say anything bad about the people here....and I don’t say that any of you are wrong about the situation. I do believe, however, that the core group that inhabits RTLC are now anti-Bush for a variety of things, perceived, real, personal, or otherwise.
I’d also ask everyone to read the Wiki on Seymour Hersh....he made his career with Abu Ghraib, and has consistently been anti-war and anti-Republican.
But...I’m not going to counter the personal insults. That can lay at your feet.....and it is the main problem with the Internet. There is no consequence to being coarse.
I’ll make it a point to come here less often. I’d like to thank Lee for not deleting or censoring my comments....it’s a testament to him that he never did that, even when we disagreed or debated.
This was my first blog I regularly frequented...I’ll pop in once in a while.
I’d also ask everyone to read the Wiki on Seymour Hersh....he made his career with Abu Ghraib, and has consistently been anti-war and anti-Republican.
It’s such a shame that you will believe anything written about anyone EXCEPT the clearly documented evidence against Bush. I’;m sorry, John, I respect you a lot for a lot of things, but I think you’ve really gone off the deep end. Your passionate desire to defend Bush at all costs is I think, as Manwhore suggested, nothing but a function of your inability to admit that, for the past year or so, you’ve been arguing the wrong position.
You’re not banned, Drumwaster isn’t banned, any of you are welcome here any time. But bring your A game.
Oh, and please, leave the “liberal media conspiracy” shit at the door. That’s so fucking weak, and I immediately lose respect for anyone who still relies on that lame-ass old sawhorse.
You know.....I don’t ever think I said one bad word about anyone here.
I don’t think I ever said a bad word about you either, John. I think I rightfully attacked your positions, relentlessly sometimes, because that’s what we do here. And when your positions made no logical sense, I and others (Manwhore, WVR, etc.) called you on them.
Look, I know how difficult it is you admit you’re wrong. Look at this blog. Look at how it’s changed from day one. This entire blog is basically five years of me admitting how wrong I was about Bush. All I’m asking you to do is look at the evidence, leave out the lame-ass liberal media conspiracy cop-out, and tell me how you think a bunch of junior enlisted grunts are to blame for all this.
You were a grunt once yourself. If you were being fucking railroaded for the incompetence and weakness of those officers above you, you’d sure as hell want someone like me sticking up for you. As it is right now you’re willing to throw them to the wolves just so you can keep intact your belief that Bush wasn’t involved.
As a former grunt myself, I expect better.
I’d also ask everyone to read the Wiki on Seymour Hersh....he made his career with Abu Ghraib, and has consistently been anti-war and anti-Republican.
Interesting, isn’t it. Rather than saying “Seymoyr Hersh, man he deserves the Pulitzer for his work in exposing this awful scandal to the world” it’s “You can’t trust Seymour Hersh. He’s one-a them durn libruls who hate Amurka and love terrists.”
Is it possible that someone can be a liberal AND be correct about what a corrupt shitbag our president is?
JOHN -
Here. I’ll call you a name. You’re an idiot.
Seymour Hersh made his career with MAI LAI in VIETNAM, 4O fucking years ago.
No one has ever been able to disprove any of the articles he’s written in 40 years. Why? Because he investigates, sources, and writes the truth.
The country needs more people like Seymour Hersh, who hold the government to account. That’s what conservatism used to be about.
I have no idea what conservatives stand for if they continue to support Bush.
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What goes around, comes around. What I wonder if Rummy can be legally put on trial for any of what happened at Abu Ghraib, or Bush when he leaves office.