Read it again, perhaps more slowly this time, and you may see the sarcasm.

Just wanted to make sure nobody took it as advice instead of just another jab at dog’s expense working_man.

No matter how low your opinions is of someone, and believe me, mine of dog can’t go much lower - barring them actually trying to do something nasty to you personally - something like this is uncalled for working_man. And for the record, I agree with everything else you said.

Read it again, perhaps more slowly this time, and you may see the sarcasm.

I wonder if after this disaster the CBO scoring will even mean anything. What’s the point?

No it won’t.  That a point I should have mentioned.  The Democrats will get their rosy projections, pass the bill, claim they’ve reduced the deficit and then proceed to “fix” the bill with all manner of expensive additions once no one is looking.  This is precisely what the CBO is warning us about.  It’s all kabuki.

The CBO has scored the new Healthcare bill and concludes:

According to a Democratic source, CBO has finished its work and will release the official preliminary score later today.

Don’t forget that disclaimer the CBO added thatthey had yet to review the details of the bill and were going of the assumption that there have been no new changes, Hal.

So the CBO has to take vague promises to reduce spending and cut waste as though they were actually going to happen.  In past analyses (and I’m sure in this one), the CBO has very sharply warned that spending control is fantastically unlikely.

This thing, despite the fact that the demcorats use a massive slight of hand to pretend it is some $940 billion - they tax us for 4 to 5 years before offering a single return benefit to make lower the cost to that number, and never discuss how they, if they are lucky enough to meet every single goal, will close the gap for the next decade - will have a real projected cost, based on the numbers the CBO says are fantastically unlikely, of close to $2 trillion dollars. My bet is that by the ten year mark we wioll be close to twice or three times that $2 trillion in the hole just for this government program.

But doesn’t he care about the poor uninsured?

Sure, these demcorats pushing the government takeover of healthcare are bankrupting the country because they do care. And I have a bridge to nowhere to sell you too…

The best step to take would be to massively overhaul the insurance mandates to make it easier for people to buy high-deductible insurance and to break the employer-insurance connection, as the Wyden-Bennet bill proposes.  I have my issues with Wyden-Bennet, but it’s far superior to Obamacare.

At this point Hal it should be obvious to those of us that have done the diligent research and looked at the numbers that doing absolutely nothing at all to what the democrats call a healthcare system in crisis, will be a far superior thing than Obamacare on its best day.

My worst fear is this will pass, the Republicans will get elected and then proceed to make it far far worse.

That will take some serious effort.

I wonder if after this disaster the CBO scoring will even mean anything. What’s the point? The Democrats are going to structure the bill in such a way that the score is as rosy as possible. I mean, does anybody think the CBO is going to bitch-slap Obama and the Democratic leaders by returning a higher-than-predicted estimate?

No matter how low your opinions is of someone, and believe me, mine of dog can’t go much lower - barring them actually trying to do something nasty to you personally - something like this is uncalled for working_man. And for the record, I agree with everything else you said.

Maybe I am craxy, but I see hate-mails from libs as badges of honor.

And banning him wouldn’t do any good because he’s already seen the pictures of diseased assholes in an academic context. Not, perhaps that he was looking to see them again, though.

I only got to see bits and pieces of the interview, but apparently liberals are outraged about Bret Baier interrupting the President.

Well if Obama had answered questions instead of used talking points to skirt them, I think Brett would not have needed to be so brusque. The problem was that like Obama, the lefty masses, are so used to the softballs questions and the lefty talking points, that despite the obvious lying, they find fault with anyone that isn’t part of their hallucination.

Apparently they thought it was a home-run for Obama. To each his own…

These are also the same kind of morons that think the reason a collectivist paradise has not happened yet is because the right people have not tried it yet, and not because the ideology is faulty, so it’s expected. We are dealing with people that get their news from outlets that get beat in the ratings by Cartoon Network, and my guess is that they get beat because Cartoon Network’s content is more grounded in reality.

I suppose it would be fun to let the higher ups at the NIH now what doggie does with most of his time during the day, but what am I thinking?  From what I can tell his boss is probably hazehead....

No matter how low your opinions is of someone, and believe me, mine of dog can’t go much lower - barring them actually trying to do something nasty to you personally - something like this is uncalled for working_man. And for the record, I agree with everything else you said.

Maybe I am craxy, but I see hate-mails from libs as badges of honor.

I only got to see bits and pieces of the interview, but apparently liberals are outraged about Bret Baier interrupting the President. Apparently they thought it was a home-run for Obama. To each his own…

Also, can somebody remind me again what exactly was the point of the health care summit a couple weeks back? I had to laugh every time Obama would tell a Republican that one of their points was valid (as if the President is the ultimate arbiter of what constitutes legitimate debate), but at least he had to grudgingly concede that his opponents weren’t just clueless obstructionists.

Well, I suppose it was nice while it lasted. Now we’re back to Obama’s suggesting that anyone who opposes the bill is against reform—and therefore they’re in favor of premium hikes, denial of coverage, and all the rest.

This has been one of the more interesting comment wars at RTFTLC that I have seen in quite some time.  Now, having been in dustups with doggie in the past I must admit that I doubted both his credentials and claims as to profession.  During one of those dustups he fucked up and provided some information back then that provided his indentity, so I am convinced that he is who he says he is.

He is still a moron though. How can someone who is clearly so book smart be so incredibly naive and, frankly, stunted in his grasp of reality?

Typical of a research doc who can’t cut it in the private sector...think they are God (hmmm that is dog spelled backwards!), and live in an academic bubble never having to show any actual results.

I suppose it would be fun to let the higher ups at the NIH now what doggie does with most of his time during the day, but what am I thinking?  From what I can tell his boss is probably hazehead....

doggie, if your tempted to email me with an insult - just be a man and do it here.

Alex, with all due respect, pay attention. he probaly is a doctor, given what Yankee dug up.

I responded to him before I read that post by Yankee. I have dealt with people claiming to be anything from climate experts, to doctors, to military personnel that, when questioned, gave away the fact that they were lying because they didn’t even know the most basic stuff. You will pardon me for assuming dog was one of these because I simply could not believe anyone in the medical profession and not tied to government lard was for this idiotic bill. We now know he is tied to the government lard. That being said, considering what I see he believes and how crazy the stuff he says is, I feel for the poor patients that he has, if he isn’t as I suspect, more of a bureaucrat than a real doctor (according to his own title).

My family doctor practically only takes cash. 

My family doctor has told me he will retire a decade earlier if this idiotic bill passes, because he is certain that when government controls both the decision making and the cash, quality of care - when you get care that is - will be mediocre at best (which as we all know is par for the course when you are dealing with anything the government has their hand in with the exception of the military). The other 3 older and more experienced doctors in their practice are all of like mind. The 3 young ones are staying on only because they need the job to pay of their quarter of a million dollar education debt. And we are, if you go by the numbers the democrats use, tacking on 40 million new patients when the bulk of the older and more experienced doctors in private practice are going to walk away. No problem there, though. Healthcare is being reformed. More “Hope and Change” for ya.

Join Date August 30, 2004 06:47 AM

That is almost 6 years.

Then you should know better.  That’s longer than I’ve been on here.  Send a personal email to someone on this board whilst waving your dick in their face...I’m sorry, but that would get you outed anywhere, and you deserve it.

My family doctor practically only takes cash.  He takes no insurance, and certainly doesn’t take Medicare or Medicaid.  Yet, his waiting room is never empty, and his patients are very satisfied with his care though many of them could use Medicare to go to someone else easily.  He has principles.  He’s a kind and caring doctor, and is very conservative about government involvement in health care.  He makes a comfortable living, though I’m sure that he often has to wait a while for payment from some patients.  My grandfather was a doctor who retired in 1980 and operated in a very similar fashion.  It’s both good for the patients and very free market.  And it couldn’t be further from the current health care bill if it were on the moon.

Harley,

Join Date August 30, 2004 06:47 AM

That is almost 6 years.

This you, dawg?

This isn’t a threat. Merely advice. Don’t be a complete dumbass on the interwebs and include your credentials in the signature.

Alex, what I’m saying is this.  When people get to the end of life, they have two choices.  They can sit in a hospital, in pain and misery, fighting it out to the last full measure at great expense.  Or the can be at home, with some pain killers and die cheaper and with more dignity.

I got this point. Blame that hospital stay on the medical profession and that Hippocratic Oath thing, Hal. We also waste a ton of time trying to keep people that attempted suicide or were shot by law enforcement alive, and I frankly feel that’s a waste too. What about providing healthcare for people on death row or with multiple life sentences? Giving medical care to illegal aliens? There are many, many instances where we was a society provide costly care to people where the return isn’t there at all. I seriously think we should revisit not just the end of life care situation, as you propose, but many of those other scenarios which are wasteful, but I am certain that the current plan to have government taking over healthcare isn’t going to do anything but give the power to make these decision to some uncaring bureaucrat, and that’s going to be real bad for us all. That’s the disconnect here. There is a definite need to take a second look at some of the things we do in healthcare, and it needs some better controls and options to improve not just the cost, but the care for some. Unfortunately, and anyone disputing this fact is plainly a moron in my book, what the democrats are trying to do will not make anything better, it will make it all worse.

This government healthcare takeover is a monstrosity that will not just bankrupt the country it will screw over people that do deserve healthcare. When they are forced to ration out care people will not get choices: those choices will be made irregardless of their wishes. There will be delays to get critical treatments for everyone, because the greatest and most effective form of cost control for such a plan is the savings that come from those that die and no longer need the care.

When people have the means to make their own choice (i.e, lots of money), they are highly inclined to choose the latter.

I am all for more free market choices in healthcare. You are however not arguing that the current government takeover is going to do any of that like dog is though I hope.

The problem is that Medicare creates a perverse incentive.  It makes it cost little for someone to burn up hundreds of thousands of dollars in pointless care.

I would love to see where you think any plan proposed by the left does something like that. In fact their premise is that everyone should be given complete coverage irregardless of the cost or their qualification. This government healthcare takeover that the democrats want to pass, against the will of the American people, is even going to provide coverage to illegals despite the campaign of lies by the left to hide that fact!

The incentives need to better aligned, either throw cost sharing or through the voucher system that Congressman Ryan proposes.  You won’t force anyone to forego care.  But you’ll make it much easier for them to make decisions.

And we all know what the democrats have told republicans, including Ryan, to do with their proposals. I would love a system that passes more of the cost and decision making to the consumer. I have an HSA plan, and think that’s the future healthcare should follow. Cover people for catastrophic stuff – even go so far as to link the level of care they want then to their premium – and definitely make them pay for most, if not all, other care, so they have a vested interest in making wise decisions.

Nothing the democrats want is going to do anything of the sort. In fact what they want is a two tiered system with coverage for everyone, the elite get the good coverage, and the masses share the misery, but then none of the plebs have to bother with jealous feelings that their neighbor, whom has made better life and healthcare choices, has better care.

Alex, with all due respect, pay attention. he probaly is a doctor, given what Yankee dug up. You were not her a few years back when we had another leftist doctor show up and spew some nasty rhetoric, and he was foolish enough to use hi actual full name as his screen mane. A search was done and sure enough the facts of his life and job were shown for all. After a few nasty words, he took off and was never seen again here.

Dog, How long have you been here?
You should know that the rules of this board nearly requires being a vicious and insensitive.
This keeps us honest.

As for deem and pass the republicans have used it for budgetary reasons, as it was intended for when introduced by the Democrats in the 70’s. It was used mostly for upping the debt limit and getting money for the war in Iraq and Afg.
Does it make it right, FUCK NO! and now the Dems are expanding the use of this Bullshit rule.
They are setting a pessident, and what worries me if they are successful with this, how many more times will they do this and use it to pass legislation that they prefer.

Now Dog, if they are successful, how would you feel about the Republicans passing some fundi inspired legislation?

Puppie sent me this charming little email.

So dog is a government bureaucrat. That explains his passion for this destructive government takeover of healthcare. This guy isn’t motivated by the doctor patient relationship, he is motivated by the deep pockets of government and wanting grants one.

Do you know the definition of hypocrite?

Democrats, and in particular, the current president, and the usual suspects in the MSM.

That is your argument.

No dog, you are twisting yourself into a pretzel and making an obvious fool of yourself. I did make it clear that republicans using this tactic was wrong then too, didn’t I. My only caveat was that the difference with when republicans used this I am certain that it wasn’t like the demcorats are doing now to screw the American people thay don’t want government to take over healthcare? Your are the one arguing that two wrongs make a right - you are arguing that the democrats should be able to use it because republicans did, not me - and I am the hypocrite? If you really are a doctor and not some glorified nurse, or better yet, still lying about what you do, I am glad I am not one of your patients. Your lack of logic leads me to believe you are dangerous.

I am not defending the left i am calling out the fact you are a hypocrite and i am mocking you.

Heh, sure you are. Only problem is that you jumped the gun and are the one deserving of mockery for missing the fact the only hypocrite is you.

I didn’t know the rules depended on a popularity contest.

I hope people read this. You have basically reduced the fact that the democrats are reduced to use a trick that is wrong because the American people see this bill for the destructive entity it is and rejected it, to some reality show equivalent. That’s par for the course with you leftists.

Either there are rules or there are not.

Yeah, and they never seem to apply to democrats.

Clearly there are rules for the GOP and not the dems.  The only thing i dislike more than a liar is a hypocrite??

And if I had made the argument that I thought it was OK when the republicans did it, you might have a point about hypocrisy, but since you seem to be unable to read, I will again point out I said it was wrong then too. You remain stuck on the fact that it was not big news when the republicans did it because they never tried to use it to ram through one of the most unpopular, costly, and destructive bills ever, like the democrats are doing now. And speaking of liars, I am still convinced you are lying about being a doctor.

And while i am calling you out as a hypocrite i guess you missed the time the GOP passed the very unpopular massive 1.7 trillion dollar tax cut that passed what 50 to 50 in the senate.

You are a lying tool, unable to differentiate between what’s popular with the American people vs. what’s popular with collectivist politicians and communist. That tax cut was very popular with the people. Everybody that woks for a living likes the option to keep more of their money. That’s why I am certain you are no doctor talking like this.

But that was fucking OK because it was the GOP so that made it ok.  Did those dumbass tax cuts bankrupt the country?  YES.  But i guess you missed that too. 

Ok, with logic like this I am sure you aren’t even qualified to be a janitor at a hospital. Tax cuts can never bankrupt anything. Maybe you are too stupid to google stuff, but you should look at how every time the government has cut taxes it was followed by the federal tax income drastically going up. Maybe you should also read some economics 101 text and forget all that marxist drivel you believe in, and you might find out that spending is how you end up in fiscal trouble. You know, the kind of out of control spending that the democrats have done in the last 3+ years, since they took over congress, and are now setting new records with by doing more deficit spending in one year than was done in the previous 8 which you are trying to blame for our fiscal woes, and that doesn’t include the massive hit this bill you keep defending will cost. I did not miss any of that.

I almost feel sad taking you to the woodshed and beating you so remorseless ever time dog, but I am going to pile it on. You have the smarts of a high school drop out that’s been unable to get past the marxist brainwashing. If you are a doctor I am John Holmes.

Mississippi Yankee

Really you are a real classally dude.  I dont lick my pts balls.  That is about as low as anything i have ever read.  My cancer pts deserve better than that.

Why dont you ack like a man instead of some immature ass.  But i guess low lifes like you get off on writting about some crude act on some person who is suffering from cancer.  No no really are you one classy dude.

Sounds like he loves some government teat.

Part of the reason why I removed my actual email address from my profile here is because liberal trolls sent me personal and profane emails on two different occasions in response to posts that I made here.  Two different users.  I found that both bitchy and inappropriate, so I removed my email.  I don’t understand why they nor dog would’ve done that.

Seriously, this guy is doctor?  How?

Puppie sent me this charming little email.

Fuck you asshole.  You can suck your own balls jerkoff.

David Gius, M.D., Ph.D.
Associate Program Director

NIH Oxford/Cambridge Scholars Program

Trans-NIH MD/PhD Partnership Program
Chief, Molecular Radiation Oncology Section
Radiation Oncology Branch
Center for Cancer Research
National Cancer Institute
National Institute of Health
Bldg 10 B3-69
Bethesda, MD 20892-1002301

Office:  (301) 496-5457
Fax:  (301) 301 480-5439
E-mail:  giusd@mail.nih.gov

Hal,
where are these hospitals that deny pain medication to terminally ill patients?

Is dog their doctor?

Puppie,
Under the rules of the Constitution after an “up or down” vote results in a 50-50 tie it is the JOB of the President of the Senate to cast the deciding vote.
Another point: laws are voted on in the House by a majority not a

And it didnt exactly pass the house with an overwhelming majority.

Shouldn’t you be practicing trying to lick your balls or something now? Or your patients balls?

Alex, what I’m saying is this.  When people get to the end of life, they have two choices.  They can sit in a hospital, in pain and misery, fighting it out to the last full measure at great expense.  Or the can be at home, with some pain killers and die cheaper and with more dignity.  When people have the means to make their own choice (i.e, lots of money), they are highly inclined to choose the latter.

The problem is that Medicare creates a perverse incentive.  It makes it cost little for someone to burn up hundreds of thousands of dollars in pointless care.  The incentives need to better aligned, either throw cost sharing or through the voucher system that Congressman Ryan proposes.  You won’t force anyone to forego care.  But you’ll make it much easier for them to make decisions.

Hal,

As i recall the first major Bush tax cut in 2001 used reconciliation and it was 50 to 50 and chaney had to fly in and pass the deciding vote.  And it didnt exactly pass the house with an overwhelming majority.  Just saying?  Am i the only one who sees the similarities?  That doesnt make it right or wrong.  And several of the other much smaller bush tax cuts also used this process since a lot of republicans were not that happy about adding to the debt by cutting taxes.

IMHO it has been used and now it will be used by the dems and my guess is in the future the GOP will use this again as well.  Just like those stupid presidental signing statements that bush used that in my opinion were not constitutional.  But it was done and my guess is BO will use these as well if he fits his agenda?

d

OK, so from what I understand, Mikey thinks the healthcare reform bill sucks, but says it has to be passed to prop up Obama lest he wind up as a one-term wonder. Is that it?

And then for some reason he decides to listen to the police scanner app to become even more depressed and bemoans what 9-11 operators, police officers, and EMTs have to deal with every single day. Which, like the rest of his rant, has nothing to do with his pet raving points but is simply part of life.

Off the deep end? Not really-not for him, anyway.

I want to see a breakdown of how the Republicans used deem and pass.  We heard this talking point on reconciliation.  But, as I blogged, the vast majority of reconciliation votes were for stuff that had overwhelming majorities in both houses or had passed both houses and were reconciling budgets.  it was not use to, for example, start the Iraq War or privatize Social Security.

Maybe people like me that end up owing the IRS taxes every April should also come up with such a nifty rule where we pretend we send in a check to them, but don’t really do it…

What we can do to congress is Vote them out. Which one do you think has more finality and a sure end?

TAX cut?  no it was a increase in the debt limit, to pay for the Wars in Iraq and AFG.
And Nacy Polsi was against it then, working with Citizens united, or some such shit.

Oh BTW Dog, the tax cuts did not bankrupt the United states, decades of Democrat AND republican spending, plus the Housing bubble and well Obama recent Trillion dollar spending, oh and before i get his Trillion dollar Health care plan.....

Hey dog, if you are upset about the US being bankrupted by Republicans, how can you support a massive government ran program of national Health care?