First Step

The GOP took the first step toward “repeal and replace”, passing a modified version of the AHCA on a narrow party-line vote.

The thing is … I can’t really hit you with a lot of details about the bill because the GOP — which spent years promising transparency in law-making — passed a bill that no one had read, that had no CBO score and, up to the last minute, had provisions slipping in and out (including a provision exempting Congress from the bill). After promising that all bills would be posted three days before passage, they crammed this through with little to no debate (or thought).

We do know that it will cut taxes, allow states to remove provisions protecting people with pre-existing conditions and allow states to remove provisions on even employer-based plans. While it will create “high risk pools” for people with pre-existing conditions, the $8 billion funding will not go far and people with pre-existing conditions could face premiums of tens of thousands a year. The entire market is going to be shaken up but no one really knows how.

Look, I’m not going to sing the praises of Obamacare. Insurers are pulling out to the extent that Iowa will basically not have Obamacare. The ACA defines pre-existed condition so broadly that basically everyone has a pre-existed condition, including assault victims and women who’ve had C-sections.

But passing a bill in haste with no information is not the solution. It’s not what Democrats did with Obamacare; it’s worse. I’m disgusted by the whole thing.

Comments are closed.

  1. CM

    Well it’s what people voted for. Not the people who need Obamacare of course, just those who don’t want them to have it. Two very separate Americas guaranteed. Good luck with that.

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  2. Iconoclast

    Well it’s what people voted for. Not the people who need Obamacare of course……

    You truly are an insufferable ass; who, exactly, “needs” to have their Doctor taken away?  Or their health plan?  Who “needs” skyrocketing premiums?

     …..just those who don’t want them to have it themselves.

    Fixed it for you.  You’re welcome.

    Contemptible troll.

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  3. Iconoclast

    It’s not what Democrats did with Obamacare; it’s worse.

    Give it a rest, already; as the title of your post says, this is just the first step.  But you’re acting like Trump just signed the damned thing.  It still has to go through the Senate and then back to the House — there is still a long road ahead, and changes will no doubt be made.

     I’m disgusted by the whole thing.

    Well, it seems a given that you’re going to be “disgusted” for the next 4 years, no matter what.

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  4. CM

    The people who need it would be those who wouldn’t have anything otherwise. Skyrocketing premiums – what’s $0 multiplied by a lot?

    True, I was wrong – he campaigned on pre-existing conditions staying in.
    And of course there were those emails….

    For someone who doesn’t care, because nothing matters except SCOTUS, you sure seem to expend a lot of emotion and energy.

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  5. Iconoclast

    The people who need it would be those who wouldn’t have anything otherwise. Skyrocketing premiums – what’s $0 multiplied by a lot?

    Just proving again what a troll you are.  What about people who are still uninsured?  Do they not matter?  And people have experienced skyrocketing premiums — do they also not matter?  For every person “helped” by Obamacare, roughly two were hurt in some way (loss of Doctor and/or loss of plan and/or skyrocketing premiums and/or skyrocketing deductibles).  Maybe on your planet that represents some kind of bargain, but not so much here on planet Earth.

    Maybe you’re the kind of asshole who thinks those people who were hurt by Obamacare somehow deserved to be hurt.  Because white privilege, or some stupid liberal thang.

    For someone who doesn’t care, because nothing matters except SCOTUS, you sure seem to expend a lot of emotion and energy.

    Perhaps you should take a bonehead English course somewhere; when I said that, I was referring to the POTUS choice, but this discussion is about what Congress is doing.  You are aware that Congress and the President are two different things, yes?

     

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  6. Iconoclast

    And of course there were those emails….

    Yes, we all know you have a raging hard-on for Hillary, but she lost.

    Get. Over. It.

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  7. Iconoclast

    And of course there were those emails….

    At least you’re not still banging on about the Russians, so maybe this represents progress……

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  8. CM

    You haven’t explained how they’ll be better off, or how those I’m talking about won’t be worse off. Where is the analysis to support ANY of what you’re claiming. If you’re concerned about people that are “still uninsured” then how will this assist with that? What about all those who felt they could vote Trump on the basis that he’d protect pre-existing conditions? You sure have a lot of ‘maybes’, in addition to bizarrely claiming that I’ve been banging on about the Russians (I havent, but obviously Russia IS an issue while there are still investigations, unanswered questions, and no tax returns, even if you conveniently decide to stick your head in the sand because Hillary).
    Good luck finding any evidence that I ever had any sort of hard on for Hillary.
    All more Alex-level nonsense. Have you completely given up now?

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  9. Iconoclast

    I’m under no obligation to “explain” ANYTHING. I’m just responding to your snarky, trollish comments that started this exchange. You basically implied that the “deplorable” Americans who voted for Trump did so because they didn’t want poor people to have health care insurance. My response was to show that people voted for a Trump because THEY THEMSELVES were being harmed by Obamacare, but apparently, you’re too much of a stubborn troll to get it. I don’t have to explain anything beyond that, your obvious unwillingness/inability to see the obvious notwithstanding.

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  10. Iconoclast

    Every time you post your “those emails” snark, you’re DEMONSTRATING your Hillary Hard-on. I don’t need to do anything to “find evidence” when you splatter it all over the place…..

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  11. Iconoclast

    Regarding the Russians, clearly I indicated that you no longer bang on about them, but you certainly did a while back, your forthcoming denials notwithstanding. And sure, there will always be “investigation and questions” because Trump, and because the Left still cannot get over Hillary’s devastating loss. The fact that every single “investigation” thus far has turned up absolutely NO EVIDENCE of collusion, the investigations and questions will no doubt continue for the next 4-8 years. Even liberal Senator Feinstein had to admit that there was simply no evidence. The one with their head in the sand would appear to be you.

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  12. CM

    My response was to show that people voted for a Trump because THEY THEMSELVES were being harmed by Obamacare, but apparently, you’re too much of a stubborn troll to get it.

    You’ve not shown at all how the poor of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, who effectively delivered Trump the election, would be better off with what is now proposed than they have been with Obamacare, or before Obamacare. 

    Or you could admit they just got so obviously conned.

    But no apparently you don’t need to actually show anything, we just take your word for it. Much like Trump with his tax returns.

    Every time you post your “those emails” snark, you’re DEMONSTRATING your Hillary Hard-on.

    That snark has very little to do with Hillary herself. You’re just seeing it through your Hillary-will-end-America-so-anything-is-preferable filter.

    Regarding the Russians, clearly I indicated that you no longer bang on about them, but you certainly did a while back, your forthcoming denials notwithstanding.

    Love how you think you can just add “forthcoming denials notwithstanding” -somehow you think it gives you the right to make shit up and then put your fingers in your ears.  That’s just hilarious. Seriously, who do you think you are kidding? Where does that actually work?

    Sorry, you must be thinking of someone else. I’ve said little about Russia.

    The fact that every single “investigation” thus far has turned up absolutely NO EVIDENCE of collusion, the investigations and questions will no doubt continue for the next 4-8 years.

    Not just collusion, but foreseeably being used (compromised) by Russia. There are a hell of a lot of red flags all over the place, and there’s obviously a huge amount we don’t know.

    But if you’re concerned about people make accusations without evidence…well Trump is the pin-up boy for that. Ah, but no matter again. Because, you know, HILLARY!

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  13. Iconoclast

    You’ve not shown at all how the poor of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, who effectively delivered Trump the election, would be better off with what is now proposed than they have been with Obamacare, or before Obamacare.

    Still suffering from reading comprehension problems?  Since I’m not making any claims, I am under no obligation to “show” anything.  You are the one making the claim that there are “two Americas”, one that doesn’t want the other to have health care.  You are the one who needs to prove his case, not me. All I’m doing is showing how you’re wrong.

    Or you could admit they just got so obviously conned.

    There is nothing to “admit”.  The House simply passed a bill, and the Senate will likewise submit their bill.  It’s a process that has just started; it is waaaay premature to claim anyone got “conned”. Of course, the whole country got conned by the Obama Administration, in terms of health care and so many other issues.

    That snark has very little to do with Hillary herself.

    It has everything to do with Hillary, your unwillingness to see that notwithstanding. Anyone else who did what she got away with would be in prison.

    Sorry, you must be thinking of someone else. I’ve said little about Russia.

    You’ve said enough.

    There are a hell of a lot of red flags all over the place….

    There will always be “red flags all over the place” as long as Trump remains POTUS, as far as the MSM is concerned. Funny how no one was concerned about “red flags” during the previous Administration, regarding such things as Obamacare lies, the Iran nuke deal, etc. etc. etc.

     

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  14. Iconoclast

    But if you’re concerned about people make accusations without evidence…well Trump is the pin-up boy for that.

    I don’t recall expressing any such “concern”; I merely point it out when evidence does not exist, but you clowns are obviously free to make any hare-brained accusations you want.  Regarding Trump, I have already criticized him on that score in the past:

    Breaking Up the Order

    FWIW, I agree that it’s going to be a long 4 years with Trump doing phenomenally stupid things and the MSM going apoplectic over it every time.  I had already forgotten about the idiotic wiretapping accusation, but yeah, it was a stupid move.  I do wish Trump would learn to STFU, truly.

    Iconoclast, March 21, 2017 11:09 AM

    Ah, but no matter again. Because, you know, HILLARY!

    You are obviously free to believe anything you wish…….

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  15. CM

     All I’m doing is showing how you’re wrong.

    Ah no, all you’re doing is claiming I’m wrong. Not showing, which implies that you’ve got something to back up your claim.

    There is nothing to “admit”.  The House simply passed a bill, and the Senate will likewise submit their bill.  It’s a process that has just started; it is waaaay premature to claim anyone got “conned”.

    Trump supports it, even though it’s not at all what he campaigned on. Nice try though, that did make me grin.

    It has everything to do with Hillary, your unwillingness to see that notwithstanding.

    I’m the one delivering the snark, but there you go (yet again) telling me what I mean.

    Anyone else who did what she got away with would be in prison.

    I seriously doubt that.

    Trump has apparently been tweeting from an unsecured Android phone and there have also been reports that his senior staff have been using a private email server.

    WauchulaGhost, the hacker who’s best known for hacking into the Twitter accounts of ISIS members and replacing their messages with those of gay pride and porn, tweeted out to Trump’s team that the president, first lady and vice president needed to change one of the security settings on their Twitter accounts, adding a phone number or email address to change passwords, to thwart hackers.

    https://twitter.com/WauchulaGhost/status/823742959581560832

    FFS.

    You’ve said enough.

    LMAO! Did you cringe when you wrote that? Woeful. No doubt I mentioned Russia somewhere at some point, and this is what you do. Again, not sure who you’re trying to kid.

    There will always be “red flags all over the place” as long as Trump remains POTUS, as far as the MSM is concerned.

    Riiiiiiiight, this is all the mainstream media’s fault. It’s all just ‘alternative facts’. FFS. Is that water you’re carrying heavy?

    Funny how no one was concerned about “red flags” during the previous Administration, regarding such things as Obamacare lies, the Iran nuke deal, etc. etc. etc.

    Which Obamacare lies? The one where he said you can keep your plan and your doctor? Yeah that was so hidden it was considered the Lie Of The Year.

    What red flags on the Iran nuke deal?

    I don’t recall expressing any such “concern”;

    The fact that every single “investigation” thus far has turned up absolutely NO EVIDENCE of collusion

    Iconoclast, May 7, 2017 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm

    I merely point it out when evidence does not exist, but you clowns are obviously free to make any hare-brained accusations you want.

    What ‘hare-brained accusation’ have I made then?

    Another day, another shit-show by your POTUS. Entertainment+

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  16. CM

    And now Trump has fired Comey. The FBI Director has been fired by a sitting president currently under investigation by the FBI, and the FBI director is an executive appointee, so the guy being investigated by the FBI will get to pick the next head of the FBI. Brilliant.

    And the reason he’s been fired – because senior Justice Department officials concluded he had violated Justice Department principles and procedures by publicly discussing the investigation of Hillary Clinton’s use of private email. Even though, just last week, Trump publicly accused Comey of giving Clinton “a free pass for many bad deeds’’ when he decided not to recommend criminal charges in the case.

    But yeah, OBAMA & HILLARY & MAINSTREAM MEDIA HITLER!

    As Alex would say, please keep it up.

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  17. Iconoclast

    Ah no, all you’re doing is claiming I’m wrong. Not showing, which implies that you’ve got something to back up your claim.

    You have already backed it up:

    Which Obamacare lies? The one where he said you can keep your plan and your doctor? Yeah that was so hidden it was considered the Lie Of The Year.

    Seriously, I am citing what amounts to common knowledge, so yeah, showing.  Not merely “claiming”.

    Trump supports it, even though it’s not at all what he campaigned on.

    What matters is what he ultimately signs, not what he merely “supports” in the preliminary phases.

    I’m the one delivering the snark, but there you go (yet again) telling me what I mean.

    I’m telling you what the words imply — again, I don’t claim to have any clue what goes on inside that chaotic mind of yours.

    Comey clearly outlined how Hillary broke the law, but still decided to not press charges.  No wonder he got canned.

    I seriously doubt that.

    Your serious doubts are irrelevant.

    Trump has apparently been tweeting from an unsecured Android phone and there have also been reports that his senior staff have been using a private email server.

    Yeah, get back to me when they’re sending and receiving classified info on those devices.  Until then, kindly pound sand.

    Did you cringe when you wrote that?

    No need — you did participate in a number of threads about Russia,  and in at least one case, you brought up the specter of Russia out of the blue:

    Ninth Circuit Rules Against Trump

    The whole campaign (and actions taken outside the campaign by Comey and seemingly Russia) against Hillary was just ridiculous.

    CM — February 15, 2017 6:58 PM

    Riiiiiiiight, this is all the mainstream media’s fault.

    Your lame attempt to trivialize notwithstanding, it’s extremely evident how in-the-tank the MSM was for Obama and Hillary, and how they utterly despise Trump. Sure, alot of shit Trump does should be called out, but the MSM is so unhinged that Trump can literally do nothing right.  Even firing Comey represents “a dark day in history”, even though the Democrats called for his termination months ago.

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  18. Iconoclast

    Which Obamacare lies? The one where he said you can keep your plan and your doctor? Yeah that was so hidden it was considered the Lie Of The Year.

    I didn’t say they were “hidden”.  I said there was no concern, meaning that there was no concern from the left, including the MSM.  Sure, they were reported, and then forgotten.  “Memory hole” to use a term you’re familiar with.   In spite of the lies, the left still want ACA left in place, and fall back on the usual emotional rhetoric in its defense: “AHCA will kill millions” and so on.

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  19. CM

    Seriously, I am citing what amounts to common knowledge, so yeah, showing.  Not merely “claiming”.

    It’s certainly common knowledge that politicians occasionally lie. The world over. Including Obama and Hillary. But they were no different to any other politician in that regard – they didn’t NOT lie. However Trump is something entirely new – he lies pathologically, constantly, on a daily basis, as a matter of course. To point where he doesn’t even seem to care whether he’s lying or not. To the point that he’s not even clear that he knows he’s lying – he seems to act on impulse the entire time, and his impulse is ‘what is best for me at this time’, and if that involves lying them that’s what he does. Huge obvious lies that everyone knows are lies.

    But very clearly a lying politician is not any sort of deal to those who voted for him.

    Anyway, we’ll see if all these red flags come to anything. From your comments it’s clear that you don’t believe it will (because it would have already). If it does I’ll look forward to the excuses (such as the mainstream media).

    What matters is what he ultimately signs, not what he merely “supports” in the preliminary phases.

    Oh ok, so it doesn’t matter that Trump appears to have betrayed a major promise that won him the election (those who felt they were able to vote for him in those important swing-states because of the safeguards like pre-existing conditions he said he’d keep). It doesn’t matter, because he might do another flip-flop and not betray them at the last second. Brilliant.

    Like it didn’t matter at all what changes Obama wanted and supported on gun control (and other controversial matters) – it ONLY mattered what he signed (which could have been completely different). Anyone getting bent out of shape about anything sort of signing were being silly. Brilliant.

    Comey clearly outlined how Hillary broke the law, but still decided to not press charges.  No wonder he got canned.

    That just illustrates how partisan you are on this issue (along with all others). Turns out it’s not good enough to just hate someone enough.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/5-reasons-not-to-expect-hillary-clinton-prosecuted/

    And why didn’t he get canned right away then? In November Trump straight-out betrayed all his “Lock her up” supporters (who he encouraged and agreed with) by saying he opposed her being prosecuted (as if the POTUS decides who gets prosecuted and who doesn’t). Trump was also praising Comey not that long ago (in October he said Comey’s annoucement that they were looking at more emails saved his reputation, and less than a month ago he said he had confidence in him).

    Makes no sense. The shit-show lurches and one thing to another as Trump contradicts himself almost immediately, yet again. But it sure is entertaining, as is watching you contort yourself to support all this as we go.

    Your serious doubts are irrelevant.

    Of course, you wouldn’t even begin to want to entertain doubt, even though there were sound reasons not to proceed (and most rich prominent people avoid prison because they can pay the best lawyers). But, yeah, “LOCK HER UP, LOCK HER UP, LOCK HER UP!”. LOL.

    Yeah, get back to me when they’re sending and receiving classified info on those devices.

    Right, so massive ongoing national security threats aren’t an issue, the problem is specifically what Hillary did (but no, that’s not about Hillary). LOL.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/president-trumps-insecure-android

    No need — you did participate in a number of threads about Russia,  and in at least one case, you brought up the specter of Russia out of the blue:

    This just gets better and better. I “participated”? LOL! OH NOES!

    I mentioned that a campaign against Hillary was “seemingly” taken by Russia? Lordy! What a preposterous, outlandish claim. Clearly I must have been on hardcore drugs!

    Worth the price of admission alone.

    Your lame attempt to trivialize notwithstanding, it’s extremely evident how in-the-tank the MSM was for Obama and Hillary, and how they utterly despise Trump. 

    Or perhaps reporting on Trump, including what he’s done, quoting him and showing videos of him, makes reasonable people despise Trump.

    You’re the one trivializing Trump by blaming the media. Your denials notwithstanding etc etc etc blah blah blah, I know you are you said you are but what am I.

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  20. CM

    I didn’t say they were “hidden”.  I said there was no concern, meaning that there was no concern from the left, including the MSM.  Sure, they were reported, and then forgotten.  “Memory hole” to use a term you’re familiar with. 

    Of course the whole healthcare issue is extremely complex and there are many many angles and aspects to it, so concentrating on one claim made by Obama (which he specifically apologised for – can you imagine Trump apologising for even 1% of his bald-faced lies??) in terms of media coverage is disingenuous.

    In spite of the lies, the left still want ACA left in place, and fall back on the usual emotional rhetoric in its defense: “AHCA will kill millions” and so on.

    Which other lies are you talking about?

    Looks like it’s more than just the left that wants Obamacare left in place – 57% of independents too.

    http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/327267-poll-obamacare-has-majority-support-for-first-time

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  21. Iconoclast

    It’s certainly common knowledge that politicians occasionally lie.

    You have a gift for evading the issue, and a talent for moving goal posts.  The issue isn’t about politicians lying, it’s about your absurd claim that half of America doesn’t want the other half to have health care insurance, a claim for which you have yet you submit even a smidgeon of evidence.

    However Trump is something entirely new – he lies pathologically, constantly, on a daily basis, as a matter of course.

    Same with Hillary, your forthcoming denials notwithstanding.

    Oh ok, so it doesn’t matter that Trump appears to have betrayed a major promise that won him the election….

    Yeah, because “appearances” can indeed be misleading.  Frankly, I personally would rather have Trump fail to keep his campaign promises than to have Hillary succeed in keeping hers.

    (those who felt they were able to vote for him in those important swing-states because of the safeguards like pre-existing conditions he said he’d keep)

    Oh, I get it now — you’re buying into the leftist myth that the pre-existing conditions issue has been abandoned.

    Fact Check: It’s a Lie That the GOP Healthcare Bill Abandons People With Pre-Existing Conditions

    [Foaming-at-the-mouth blather ignored and snipped]

    That just illustrates how partisan you are on this issue (along with all others). Turns out it’s not good enough to just hate someone enough.

    Well, your CNN article is just another example of the MSM carrying water for Clinton.  What it boils down to is that “there is not enough evidence” that she “intentionally” mishandled classified documents. Well, “intent” shouldn’t be an issue — if you break the law, you break the law. A person in her position should have known the risks of using an unsecured server to handle State business. Comey simply used “intent” to let her off the hook.

    Of course, you wouldn’t even begin to want to entertain doubt…..

    Why would I want to entertain the doubts of a hyper-partisan leftist who desperately tries to pretend he isn’t hyper-partisan?

    Right, so massive ongoing national security threats aren’t an issue….

    Well, hell’s bells, if she can get away with it, why can’t they?  Of course, there is no evidence that they’re sending or receiving classified info, but that obviously doesn’t matter to you.  Because Trump.

    Or perhaps reporting on Trump, including what he’s done, quoting him and showing videos of him, makes reasonable people despise Trump.

    If they’re truly “reasonable”, they would likewise despise Hillary, for pretty much the same reasons.

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  22. Iconoclast

     so concentrating on one claim made by Obama (which he specifically apologised for – can you imagine Trump apologising for even 1% of his bald-faced lies??)

    Obama’s non-apology on Obamacare

    Obama said, “I am sorry that they, you know, are finding themselves in this situation, based on assurances they got from me.” Well, what situation is that, Mr. President? The situation that they can’t access the Obamacare exchanges. The president went on to say, “Keep in mind that most of the folks who got these cancellation letters, they’ll be able to get better care at the same cost or cheaper in these new marketplaces. .?.?. The majority of folks will end up being better off, of course. Because the Web site’s not working right, they don’t necessarily know it.”

    So if you’re one of the 4.8 million people (and counting) who’ve lost their health insurance, congratulations! President Obama thinks you’re better off — you just don’t know it yet.

    The problem, in Obama’s telling, isn’t that Americans can’t keep the plans they like — the plans he promised they could keep. The problem is that because the Healthcare.gov Web site does not work, they just can’t see how much better Obamacare really is.

    You really do slam down that leftist kool-aid whenever you can, don’t’cha?

    Obama did NOT ap0logize for the outright lies he told to sell ACA. In fact, in his “apology” above, he merely doubled-down on at least one of them: that their costs would ultimately go down.  That. Didn’t. Happen.

    Looks like it’s more than just the left that wants Obamacare left in place – 57% of independents too.

    That could very well be due to the scare tactics being used by the left, telling people how “millions will die” if ACA is repealed, and/or if AHCA replaces it.

     

     

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  23. AlexInCT

    Americans lost with this bill. Basically the GOP gave in to the idiotic notion that the feds should interfere in health insurance. The next donkey president will speed up the destruction of the American healthcare system again, and in the end we will end with something as broken as the VA system, with enemies of the state left to die as they wait for subpar care. All so the people that pretend they care about others, especially the less fortunate, can garnish even more power despite the fact that to get there they must destroy what works for the vast majority.

    Brings to mind the saying that because it is the easiest thing to render, those that want to garnish power and control, will always make all equally miserable. But that’s what makes you great as the people that tell you how awesome the Cuban healthcare system is and that we should be envious of it because everyone gets free care. Free nothing it easy to provide.

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  24. CM

    Sorry Iconoclast, you must have missed where any further comments of yours are auto-invalidated:

    Your denials notwithstanding etc etc etc blah blah blah, I know you are you said you are but what am I.

    The pre-existing condition ‘lie’ is really just a lie:

    http://www.politifact.com/north-carolina/statements/2017/may/04/robert-pittenger/does-new-version-ahca-protect-coverage-pre-existin/

    I could be granted access to Mars, doesn’t mean I can actually get there.

    You have a gift for evading the issue, and a talent for moving goal posts.  The issue isn’t about politicians lying, 

    Actually the point there was about red-flags, which I came back to in my third paragraph starting with “Anyway”.

     

    it’s about your absurd claim that half of America doesn’t want the other half to have health care insurance, a claim for which you have yet you submit even a smidgeon of evidence.

    I retracted that claim in the second paragraph in my second post in this thread.

    What it boils down to is that “there is not enough evidence” that she “intentionally” mishandled classified documents. Well, “intent” shouldn’t be an issue — if you break the law, you break the law. A person in her position should have known the risks of using an unsecured server to handle State business. Comey simply used “intent” to let her off the hook.

    Obviously you’re free to speculate (and dismiss anything that doesn’t suit as ‘carrying water’). Why would he do that, unless it was that was actually his judgement? He then showed he’s not scared of making big calls that could knowingly affect the outcome of the election.

    Why would I want to entertain the doubts of a hyper-partisan leftist who desperately tries to pretend he isn’t hyper-partisan?

    Not my doubts, why wouldn’t you have any of your own?

    Well, hell’s bells, if she can get away with it, why can’t they?

    Jonah Goldberg has been writing a lot lately about this tactic/mindset. Will post/link some for you.

    Of course, there is no evidence that they’re sending or receiving classified info, but that obviously doesn’t matter to you.  Because Trump.

    Why would you not be remotely concerned that he/they are potentially compromising themselves via whatever they’re using those devices for being used against them? “Because Trump” isn’t even remotely required.

    If they’re truly “reasonable”, they would likewise despise Hillary, for pretty much the same reasons.

    LMAO! Brilliant.

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  25. Iconoclast

    Sorry Iconoclast, you must have missed where any further comments of yours are auto-invalidated:

    Which perfectly explains why you keep responding.  No wonder I “missed” it…..

    I retracted that claim in the second paragraph in my second post in this thread.

    Well, what you actually said was:

    True, I was wrong – he campaigned on pre-existing conditions staying in.

    Which sounds like you were wrong about his campaigning on pre-existing conditions staying in, not about there being two Americas, with one not wanting the other to have health care coverage.  It would be helpful to explicitly say what you actually mean, so I won’t have to “tell you what you mean” going forward. (LMAO)

    Why would he do that, unless it was that was actually his judgement?

    Why would he invent “intent” as part of the law to let Hillary off the hook?  How should I know?  All I know is that “intent” is not actually part of the law.

    Not my doubts….

    I explicitly said it was your doubts that are/were irrelevant.

    Jonah Goldberg has been writing a lot lately about this tactic/mindset.

    What “mindset” is that?  All I’m doing is illustrating your hypocrisy; you say it’s a big deal when Trump & Co. use unsecured devices, but you completely and utterly mock any concern about Hillary doing the same thing every time you snark about “those emails”.

    Why would you not be remotely concerned that he/they are potentially compromising themselves via whatever they’re using those devices for being used against them?

    Again, the real question is why do you mock concern over Hillary’s having actually done the deed while complaining about mere potential when Trump does it?

     

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  26. Iconoclast

    I have moved along. The people who keep bringing up Hillary to justify Trump’s behavior today can’t move along.

    See, that’s what you don’t get.  I don’t bring up Hillary to “justify” Trumps behavior.  I do it to illustrate your hypocrisy. Not the same thing.

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  27. Iconoclast

    The pre-existing condition ‘lie’ is really just a lie:

    Yeah, we can trade links until the universe burns out…..

    The Pre-Existing Conditions Scam

    But I doubt it will make any difference; you will continue to believe the GOP is stupid enough to abandon people with pre-existing conditions, no matter what.

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  28. Iconoclast

    Obviously you’re free to speculate (and dismiss anything that doesn’t suit as ‘carrying water’). Why would he do that, unless it was that was actually his judgement? He then showed he’s not scared of making big calls that could knowingly affect the outcome of the election.

    This should provide some insights.  Pay close attention to the third quoted paragraph.

    Attention, liberals: Comey deserved to be fired, and the Constitution is just fine

    The first point to note is that Comey deserved to be fired, long ago, for the offenses that were set out in the memorandum of May 9, 2017 (subject line: “Restoring Public Confidence in the FBI”), that Rod Rosenstein prepared, which outlined Comey’s breaches of his duties as FBI head. Rosenstein, the newly appointed deputy attorney general, cogently described several significant errors of judgment, mainly having to do with Comey’s public statements about his investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server while secretary of state.

    But, if anything, he understated the case against Comey. First, Comey treated the initial investigation of Hillary Clinton back in March 2015 with kid gloves. There were the inexcusable decisions to grant immunities to key Clinton backers without first serving them with a subpoena that would have allowed the FBI to extract a quid pro quo for any immunity that thereafter might be granted. Second, the FBI allowed Clinton’s key aide Cheryl Mills, Clinton’s former chief of staff, to act as her legal counsel, even though she herself was a legitimate target of investigation who could have faced charges. And they did not conduct any of the ambush interviews that are commonly given in cases where criminal prosecution is warranted. The obvious inference is that Comey was kowtowing to his superiors in the Obama White House.

    Next, of course, was his public statement on July 5, 2016, in which he gave a thoroughly unsatisfactory explanation as to why he chose not to prosecute Clinton for her use of an unauthorized server that, in a case involving lesser persons, would have resulted in serious criminal charges, wholly without regard as to whether unauthorized persons hacked into the site (which they surely did).

     

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  29. CM

    Which perfectly explains why you keep responding.  No wonder I “missed” it…..

    Yeah, almost like it’s pointless writing it……;-)

    Which sounds like you were wrong about his campaigning on pre-existing conditions staying in, not about there being two Americas, with one not wanting the other to have health care coverage.

    I thought you’d be able to follow the simple logic – Trump no doubt go support for his campaign promises on protecting healthcare, therefore nobody can say they voted for him in order to making healthcare harder for people in order to make their own cheaper.

    Why would he invent “intent” as part of the law to let Hillary off the hook?  How should I know?  All I know is that “intent” is not actually part of the law.

    But that’s part of determining whether to prosecute ANYONE – otherwise every single person who broke any law would always be prosecuted.

    I explicitly said it was your doubts that are/were irrelevant.

    Don’t need to rely on mine, have some of your own.

    All I’m doing is illustrating your hypocrisy; you say it’s a big deal when Trump & Co. use unsecured devices, but you completely and utterly mock any concern about Hillary doing the same thing every time you snark about “those emails”.’

    The fact that Trump seemingly doesn’t give two shits about security just underlines the appropriateness of the mocking (which you don’t appear to understand).

    Again, the real question is why do you mock concern over Hillary’s having actually done the deed while complaining about mere potential when Trump does it?

    Because it just underlines the rampant hypocrisy of those who made a massive deal of Hillary’s emails.

    It’s safe to say that any unsecured devices have been compromised, so the potential is the same: who will the information obtained be used?

    I don’t bring up Hillary to “justify” Trumps behavior.  I do it to illustrate your hypocrisy. Not the same thing.

    Except I only brought up Trumps behavior and the lack of concern about it as a way to illustrate hypocrisy. As opposed to making a big deal of it, while at the same time playing down Hillary’s actions.

    So how about just delivering classified information in person then? Does that change your position on how careless Trump is? Or is there another escape-clause?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html

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  30. Iconoclast

    But that’s part of determining whether to prosecute ANYONE – otherwise every single person who broke any law would always be prosecuted.

    Umm, no, doesn’t work like that at all. At least, not for mere mortals and not in the case of felonies. Intent might me a factor when it comes to sentencing, but not prosecution. At least, not generally. Only for the political elite.

    Don’t need to rely on mine, have some of your own.

    You erroneously assume I don’t, just because I don’t buy into yours.

    The fact that Trump seemingly doesn’t give two shits about security just underlines the appropriateness of the mocking (which you don’t appear to understand).

    But there is a difference between using an unsecured device in general and handling classified materials. If there were no classified materials on Clinton’s server, this would never have been an issue.

    It’s safe to say that any unsecured devices have been compromised, so the potential is the same: who will the information obtained be used?

    No law is being broken unless the information in question is classified. That is the point you seem unwilling to get.

     

     

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  31. AlexInCT

    But there is a difference between using an unsecured device in general and handling classified materials. If there were no classified materials on Clinton’s server, this would never have been an issue.

    There are plenty of people that are in jail or went to jail, for less. These people lost their clearance and ability to make money. They will never be allowed near anything of importance again.

    Clinton got to run for the top office after proving that she wasn’t qualified to hold the office of a dog catcher. The same people defending her then, constantly excusing, covering up, and spinning for he, now are the ones demanding an impeachment because of some made up fake shit about Trump.

    Fuck them.

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