The Wheat from the Chaff

Trump has been in office for one week, but it’s an eventful one. Before I get into the heavy stuff, I wanted to take a second to note that, on occasion, we all need to take a deep breath. Yes, some of the things he’s already done are misguided and some of his proposals are poor. He’s showing an alarming egotism and disregard for existing institutions, the law and the Constitution.

But … we’ve got 1460 days of this (at least). It’s important to figure out what to be alarmed by and what not to be alarmed by. Ken White has a great post on this, pointing out that the media and the American people have a tendency to react to stories of government abuse as though they are unprecedented, mainly because they weren’t paying attention while a President they liked was the in the Oval Office.

The urge to indulge in this habit under the thoroughly loathsome Trump Administration is overpowering. Trump and his underlings are scornful of rights and openly fantasize about abusing them. They require dedicated scrutiny. But not every ugly thing that happens now is the result of a Trumpism. Take, for instance, the concern about members of the press being arrested at anti-Trump protests. We should absolutely be vigilant for signs of the criminal justice system being abused to suppress the press and dissent. But cops have always indiscriminately arrested people at protests — including journalists — and falsified masses of improbable riot or assault or obstruction charges afterwards. Reporters have been charged plenty of times before. Sometimes it’s a reflection of law enforcement’s indiscriminate approach to arrests at protests and sometimes it’s a reflection of entrenched law enforcement hostility to press scrutiny. Is the latest incident actually a change — or is the press just noticing because this time they got caught up in it, and they are primed to expect tyranny?

Examples are legion, and not just in the criminal justice arena. Every day you’ll see old policies being cited as new Trump atrocities. Before it happened to Obama, and Bush, and so on ad infinitum.

I’ve decided to impose a 12-hour moratorium on tweeting or blogging any Trump outrage (unless it is something said or done by Trump or his surrogates). Because we’ve developed a huge problem with identifying real Trump outrages from phony ones. Just a few examples

  • Last week, the internet erupted because Trump had “scrubbed” pages from the White House website on climate change and LGBT rights. But it turned out that this was not unusual. When Trump assumed office, all of Obama’s web pages were moved to a new site and the only pages that went up were ones Trump’s team had put together. You could complain that this means LGBT rights and climate change are not priorities with Trump (which we already knew). But saying they’d been “scrubbed” was ignorant.
  • A day later, the internet erupted because Trump had declared his inauguration day a “National Day Of Patriotic Devotion”. This was creepy, but … Obama declared his to be a “National Day of Renewal and Reconciliation”. So this was ultimately much ado about nothing.
  • Yesterday, the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists advanced the “Doomsday Clock” to 2.5 minutes to midnight. This is utterly meaningless.
  • Yesterday, the internet also erupted because several senior State Department staff resigned. This is a bit alarming because Trump has not filled almost all the senior positions at State (and even the most ardent small-government conservative would admit that foreign relations are the Federal Government’s job). But, as Alex noted, the resignations were not unusual or unprecedented. In fact, most senior government officials resign when a new Administration takes office. Some are just held on for continuity.
  • There’s been a bit of hubbub over the Administration telling government scientists not to communicate with the public. It’s not clear how common this is or how extensive. I am very concerned that the Administration may be politicizing science. But this is not unprecedented — the previous Administration was more than happy to indulge in pseudo-scientific trafficking “studies”. For the moment, I am holding back on a full-scale blast until it’s clear what’s going on.

The problem with these pseudo- or semi-controversies is that they obscure really bad stuff the Administration is actually doing that is not in question at all. To wit:

  • Issuing an executive order last week that has HHS grant more waivers to insurance mandates under Obamacare. That may sounds good. But since insurance companies are still forbidden from blocking insurance due to pre-existing conditions, this is only going to enhance the insurance death spiral.
  • Wallowing in conspiracy theories about voter fraud. Trump is obsessed with his popularity and is now proposing a massive investigation into mythical millions of illegal aliens voting. If masses of illegal aliens voted in 2016, they were just as skilled as the mythical Russian hackers who supposedly stole the election for Trump. They somehow disguised themselves as well-established demographic trends, voted Republican down-ballot and concentrated all their power in California, which Clinton was going to win anyway. This fantasy of Trump’s ends in one place: a national ID card and national voter database.
  • Reopening CIA black sites and resuming torture. This was one of my biggest breaks with the Republican Party and remains so. The black sites create a space where torturers can operate outside of the law, outside of the Geneva convention and outside of the rules of war. And the CIA’s record in defense of their program — destroying evidence, lying to Congress, spying on Congress — is a huge black mark against them. Trump has decreed that torture “absolutely” works despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. And whether it works or not, it is a violation of the law, our treaty obligations and basic human decency. He’s talking as though to defeat ISIS, we need to become ISIS.
  • Trump, a supposed Culture War moderate, restored the gag order that prevents NGO’s from getting money if they perform abortions or even counsel women about abortions. But he extended it further to all international health organizations, not just those involved with family planning. Organizations fighting HIV/AIDS could see their funding cut if they even mention abortion. (To be fair, this reeks of that Culture War dunderhead Pence. But Trump signed it, probably not knowing what he was signing.) This seemingly innocuous move could kill thousands, even potentially undoing Bush 43’s greatest legacy: the tremendous progress made in fighting AIDS in Africa.
  • Trump, as promised, banned immigration from several Muslim countries, including countries where we created the refugee crisis and applying even to people who helped us and are now at risk of retaliation. Oddly, or maybe not so oddly, the ban does not apply to countries where Trump has business interests.
  • He continued to make false claims about surging crime, saying DC and Philadelphia are experiencing huge surges in murder (they aren’t). He also threatened to send in the feds to deal with Chicago, which really is seeing a surge of violence. But as Radley Balko pointed out, the Feds already did look into Chicago and concluded that the policing culture, which includes such “politically correct” things as black sites, beatings, smashed dash cams and cover-ups, is the biggest problem.
  • Trump cancelled TPP, to the delight of China and the despair of the people who would have benefitted. And he’s now supporting a “border adjustment tax” that will spike the cost of consumer goods. Yesterday, it was touted as the way Mexico will pay for his stupid wall although it does not such thing. And his angry tweeting about Mexico caused the Mexican President to cancel a meeting — not a good thing for our third biggest trading partner.

Since I wrote the above, I’ve been trying to think of anything good Trump has done in the first week. He froze regulations, which is sorta good but there are few on things like airline safety that we kind of need. He froze government hiring, which is fine. He removed the ban on the Keystone Pipeline, which is fine, but not nearly the economic stimulus he thinks it will be. That’s pretty much it and all stuff we could have gotten out of a generic Republican sans the bullshit.

Look, there are bunch of you that support Trump. I get that. But you can’t claim that a man who wants political control of science, torture, baseless investigations into supposed voter fraud, hard restraints on immigration, a global gag order on abortion and a thousand other policies that clamp down on us is, in any way, a supporter of freedom or the Constitution. I said before the election that Trump had the makings of a thug. We’re only a week in but I’ve seen nothing to make me reassess that opinion.

Comments are closed.

  1. Balthazar

    Just one thing, TPP was not good for the US, the 2 main trading partners involved are Japan and the US. Japan was essentially giving nothing. They were keeping all tariffs on rice wheat and sugar to prop up their domestic sources. Promised a miniscule reduction per year over 15 years 38% to 9%,  so 2% per year. The ONLY thing we got was the pork tariff reduction of 50% and possibly it being gone…. IN TEN YEARS.

     

    Sorry, people need to actually give something up.

     

    Oh and our pharma companies would basically work for the TPP partners since they would be able to make ripoffs in 5 years and pay diddly squat to the companies that invested million in new drugs.

     

    Please let me know how this was good for the US as opposed to everyone else. Everyone else got shitloads more out of TPP than we did. Just because we are already being screwed royally doesn’t mean putting in a trade agreement that only screws us 2% less is a GOOD THING.

    Meanwhile there was no opening to Japanese auto markets at all. yeah good deal my ass.

    IMHO add a similar tariff that matches this on like goods, see if they come to the table and deal honestly then.

     

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  2. AlexInCT

    I am one heck of a free trade supporter. Only thing I want is for that trade to really be free and the partners to be equal. As Balthazar pointed out, this deal – as seems to be with all things Obama when Americans end up footing the bill and consequences – left us giving far more than we would receive. The TTP also suffered from a sever bias that favored certain businesses over others, and that was done on purpose. The one thing our government should stop doing, well after it rolls the left back to the stone age, is lose the power to do that. Let people earn the title by doing the work. Let the things that people really want win because they are wanted. And most importantly, let the idiocy of the left die a horrible death on the corrupted ideological vine it grew from.

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  3. AlexInCT

    I actually had a conversation today with a hardcore lefty coworker, and even he admitted that neither the NYT or WaPo was worth reading because they have simply lost it. Now granted, he is mad that they have sold him bum stories he thought would somehow invalidate the election results and magically replace Trump with the She-devil, but that went nowhere. But heck, everyone seems to be feeling that you can’t trust the media anymore. And to me, that is the best thing to come out of this election. About freaking time.

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  4. West Virginia Rebel

    Well, voter fraud might not totally be a myth:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/26/hillary-clinton-received-800000-votes-from-nonciti/

    And it looks like the NAACP isn’t too happy, either:

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/26/politics/trump-voter-fraud-naacp-brooks-blitzer-cnntv/

    Trump wants to rebuild the military. That’s good. He doesn’t seem too interested in balancing the budget. That’s bad.

    Long-term, Trump needs to be thinking about how his brand of presidential activism will look down the road. Some of it will be good, the questionable stuff might be harder to undo, and how often have we seen this before?

    Having an activist president can be a good thing. It can show that he’s sincere at least in the early going. Over time, he may pull back, as the consequences, good and bad, are felt. then what?

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  5. louctiel

    He doesn’t seem too interested in balancing the budget. That’s bad.

    I don’t think that he needs to be thinking about that right now.  We first need to have a budget offered by the House.  We don’t know what the White House is doing on a budget at this moment.

    We live in a world it seems where everyone wants everything now if not sooner.   Trump doesn’t even know what department cuts his people will be making.  He doesn’t even have tax revenue projections and yet we want him to care about a budget?  Right now?  At this moment?

    A President usually has 100 days of work to be evaluated – not 5 days.

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  6. AlexInCT

    Long-term, Trump needs to be thinking about how his brand of presidential activism will look down the road. 

    First things first man. He needs to make sure nobody doubts that the democrats and the media are in cahoots and that they are more than willing to burn the country down out of spite if the the left doesn’t hold power. I thought it would take him years to do that, but the unhinged media and democrats have made it possible that nobody will take them seriously anymore.

    A President usually has 100 days of work to be evaluated – not 5 days.

    Shit. the left labeled him a failure before he took office. and they even went so far as to blame him for shit while Obama was still calling the shots, making them all look like the idiots they are.

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  7. Balthazar

    Incorrect, hes banning them based on their country of origin. Nice try. There are plenty of countries that Muslim peoples can immigrate from to the us, just not ones that have hugely active terrorist organizations.

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  8. stogy

    WVR, be careful about what you read in the Washington Times. They have a long record of making things up. It seems that all is not quite right with the story that you posted – even according to the researcher himself:

    The problem, says Richman, who identifies as a political moderate, is that the Trump administration’s interpretation of his report is totally off. “Trump and others have been misreading our research and exaggerating our results to make claims we don’t think our research supports,” Richman says. “I’m not sure why they continue to do it, but there’s not much I can do about that aside from set the record straight.”

    In an interview airing tonight on ABC News, Trump also pointed to an actual Pew Research report about outdated voter rolls, but according to its own author, that report found no instances of voter fraud.

    The study authors have apparently asked the Trump team to stop citing their work.

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  9. AlexInCT

    WVR, be careful about what you read in the Washington Times. They have a long record of making things up.

    Oh god, this was priceless, Stogy. Wish you and your cohort applied the same standard of scrutiny to the stuff you link here when making your arguments.

    The study authors have apparently asked the Trump team to stop citing their work.

    So Trump’s people are doing what wrong? Pointing out that while a study that found there were massive number of dead people still on voter roles – and then primarily in democrat dens of inequity where people frequently have more votes than eligible voters – and all manner of other possible ways to cheat, but then stopped short from actually admitting there is fraud probably for political reasons, actually indicates that there is a need to investigate possible voter fraud? How about we have a real investigation, by people that don’t have a vested interest in never finding voter fraud because voter fraud is critical to their continued ability to keep crooking on?

    I for one am tired of being told by people that run the fraudulent machines that they find no voter fraud goes on after we have countless incidents that they just dismiss and then hope we forget about.  Especially when that fraud always gets committed by people from a party that are looting the country and destroying it.

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  10. CM

    “Yesterday two Iraqi men, who had valid visas, were detained by border guards when they landed in New York, according to the New York Times.

    One of them, Hameed Khalid Darweesh – who works as an interpreter for the US government in Iraq – was released this afternoon.

    After being detained for nearly 19 hours, he cried began to cried as he hugged friends and protesters in emotional scenes.”

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2728876/us-muslim-travellers-stopped-boarding-flights-donald-trump-ban/

    “They included an Iranian film director nominated for an Oscar in the Best Foreign Film category who will be unable to attend this year’s ceremony in the wake of President Trump’s ban.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/28/unhcr-speaks-donald-trump-suspends-us-refugee-program/

    It’s not hard to predict that this will be extremely counter-productive.

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  11. Hal_10000 *

    He needs to make sure nobody doubts that the democrats and the media are in cahoots and that they are more than willing to burn the country down out of spite if the the left doesn’t hold power.

    No, that should not be his first priority.  His first priority should be doing what’s right for the country, not burning people you don’t like.

    Incorrect, hes banning them based on their country of origin. Nice try. There are plenty of countries that Muslim peoples can immigrate from to the us, just not ones that have hugely active terrorist organizations.

    Which are also, by a strange coincidence, the ones that have refugees. We used a similar logic in the 1930’s to drive away European immigrants. And, as CM noted, these bans apply to people whose lives are in danger because they helped us.

    The refugee vetting process is very thorough.  It takes typically two years to be granted refugee status, during which a thorough investigation into every claim a refugee makes is scrutinized. Trump either does not know this or know this and is stoking xenophobia anyway.

    So Trump’s people are doing what wrong?

    Yes. What they are doing is misreading the result of a study to claim all kinds of conspiracy theories. As I have pointed out MANY times, dead people on voter roles are not a liberal conspiracy; they’re the result of people not telling the registrar that someone has died.  And being registered in two states is not a conspiracy either.  It’s the result of moving.  Several of Trump’s associates and family have turned out to be registered in two states.  Right now, his source for “three million” is a Twitter crackpot who has no data to back it up.  This is moon landing hoax territory.

    You simply don’t know what you’re talking about Alex.  I have linked to numerous stories showing how our voting system is managed, how fraud is cracked down on, how the voting machines work, how difficult it is to carry out fraud and how heavy the punishments are.  You simply don’t want to listen.

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  12. ilovecress

    A friend of my dads just got turned away from her flight home from South America (to Scotland) because there was a layover in NYC.

    She’s a Brit with an Iranian father (thus dual passport), but who has only been there once to visit family. Everyone is currently trying to find a way to get her and her husband home.

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  13. louctiel

    You simply don’t know what you’re talking about Alex.

    The real answer might be that both of you are right and wrong – just not the extend each of you believe.

    In 2014, I walked into my polling place and found that I had voted.  Someone had walked in, presented an id (it was suspected that it was a bill of some sort)  and voted.   I would consider that fraud, but your mileage may vary as it was not your vote that was stolen.

    Eventually, the whole thing was cleared up and the fake ballot was removed from the count.   (We have paper ballots that are scanned here.)

    However, don’t try and tell me that voter fraud doesn’t exist.  Don’t try and tell me it is difficult to pull off.

    Does that mean that voter fraud is rampant?  Not at all.  But it depends somewhat on your definition of rampant as well.  In my small town where people know each other (but the polls are manned by other people,) my 1 in 600 or so vote at that precinct was  not very large.  (And that is what is known.)   However, to me, the fraud in that election affected 100% of my vote.

    It’s like car theft.  It doesn’t seem like car theft is a major deal – until it is your car that is stolen.  Then its a problem.

    There are some basic things that can help.  Just like the driver’s license compact between states, the same should exist for voter registration.  Registration in one state automatically removes you from being registered in another state.   Death notices should be cross filed with voter rolls.  If we are going to issue driver’s licenses to non-citizens, we should review the “Motor Voter” laws that automatically register people to vote and sends them a form for absentee ballots.

    The problem is that there is one side saying “this is a large issue” and the other side saying “nothing to see here ….. move along.”

    It is time that we do investigate and do make reforms to make sure the right of every citizen to vote is protected.

     

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  14. Hal_10000 *

    I haven’t said vote fraud doesn’t exist. Just not in the numbers that you would need to steal an election. Think about the person who stole your vote.  They had to acquire something they could use to pretend to be you. They took the risk of going to your local precinct and someone saying, “Hey, you’re not louctiel!” If they’d been caught, they could have faced up to five years in prison. And if they succeeded, they managed to steal … one vote.

    Cress, it’s worse than that.  Trump’s ban applies to current visa and may even apply to green card holders.  There could be half a million people either getting deported or not allowed to come back here, including scientific researchers and students. I talked to a prospective yesterday who had visited Florida Tech. There’s a researcher there who works on Martian soils. But he’s from Libya. So he can’t leave the country right now and it’s not even clear he can stay. Everything is up in the air.

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  15. louctiel

    Hal, the problem is you don’t know the number of times fraud has been committed.   You don’t know the number it takes to “steal an election.”

    Secondly, remember that the 2000 election problem in Florida was caused by voter fraud as a judge ruled the rolls were hopelessly screwed up and needed to be cleaned up.

    You also make the false assumption that there is no registration fraud, dead voting, dogs voting, etc.   (And we haven’t even discussed what happened in Detroit.)

    It is horrible – absolutely horrible – that you seem to be so willing to throw away the rights of people.

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  16. CM

    Trump is doing more damage to the US standing in the world in a week than Obama managed in his two terms. Impressive. But this is what people voted for.

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  17. Hal_10000 *

    It is horrible – absolutely horrible – that you seem to be so willing to throw away the rights of people.

    I am very in favor of reforming the electoral rolls, although doing it properly would require a national voter database and possibly a national ID card.  I favor voter ID laws IF … IF … you create an active task force that will help people who don’t have IDs get one.  If you’re worried about the rights of people, disenfranchising isn’t an option either.

    And I do agree that voter fraud is more prevalent than thought.  The claim that “only” 31 cases have been identified is based on a system where we aren’t checking.  These are only obvious cases.  And as I’ve said before, I do think it’s possible some close elections (Franken cough Franken) were swung by illegal votes. But there is very little evidence of millions of votes or hacked machines.

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  18. CM

    Trump order begins by invoking 9/11 three times. 9/11 hijackers were from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE & Lebanon. None of those countries banned.

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  19. Hal_10000 *

    Trump order begins by invoking 9/11 three times. 9/11 hijackers were from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE & Lebanon. None of those countries banned.

    There’s been a lot of commentary on that, including people saying Trump didn’t ban travel to places that he has business interest in.  It’s BS.  The EO bans immigrants from countries that Congress designated two years ago for additional scrutiny because of civil wars, terrorism, etc.

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  20. CM

    Thoughts on removing the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Director of National Intelligence from the NSC and adding Bannon to it?

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  21. AlexInCT

    No, that should not be his first priority.  His first priority should be doing what’s right for the country, not burning people you don’t like.

    As I have pointed out numerous times before a bunch of idiots, including you, decided to make fun of me for saying so: The left is out to prevent him from accomplishing anything, and if possible, destroy him. If he doesn’t deal with that first, he will never be able to do anything, because the left – which includes the dnc operatives with bylines – will undermine him at every point. And that will be the case regardless of whether what he does is good for the country or not. Maybe you have not been paying attention, or maybe you know damn well that is the case but cheer it on, but their agenda is to destroy him, whatever that costs us all.

    Which are also, by a strange coincidence, the ones that have refugees. We used a similar logic in the 1930’s to drive away European immigrants. And, as CM noted, these bans apply to people whose lives are in danger because they helped us.

    Can we ask the Europeans how well this is working for them and then make an informed decision? Or do we have to keep playing by suicidal rules (which is exactly what you demanded Trump play by above too…)

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  22. AlexInCT

    In 2014, I walked into my polling place and found that I had voted.  Someone had walked in, presented an id (it was suspected that it was a bill of some sort)  and voted.   I would consider that fraud, but your mileage may vary as it was not your vote that was stolen.

    That is indeed fraud, and it happened to me as well back in 2004. In my case they let me vote and told me they would try to find the other sheet and get rid of it, but they couldn’t tell which one it was so the vote ended up being counted (and canceling mine, considering the people that commit the fraud tend to vote the exact opposite of what I definitely would).

    Does that mean that voter fraud is rampant?  Not at all. 

    You should come visit us in Hartford and Bridgeport, piddly towns in the People’s Republic of Connecticut, before you make that statement Louctiel. It is rampant. The small town where I vote they now demand ID as well (it became standard after we had so much trouble in 2004 here), but in the big cities, where the dead and multiple vote voters vote, they do no such thing. There was no investigation. The people that would need to call one, all donkeys, told us it was no big deal and would not change the outcome of the vote. Because it was so rare (which was bullshit).

    Now take that to the next level, and imagine Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, NYC, and most of California’s urban lands. I have talked to a buddy from Detroit that pointed out that in Detroit the very staff manning the poling place actively participates in committing the fraud, and laugh at anyone trying to question, let alone stop, them.

    But I keep getting told there is no fraud even though we have so many stories about carloads of votes being found just in time to declare the democrat the winner in tight elections. Al Franken, for example.

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  23. AlexInCT

    I am very in favor of reforming the electoral rolls

    What do you think that would accomplish? Polling places should just demand proof of citizenship (and probably not be manned by single party reps like happens in urban areas all the time).

    I have always been weary of a national voter ID, because I bet the government will abuse that somehow find a way to invade and violate our privacy and rights in one way or another (as opposed to the people that think it will be used to deny some the right to vote), but now I am seriously thinking that the fraud is so rampant in blue urban areas that we should have something to prevent it.

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  24. AlexInCT

    And for the people ragging on Trumps ban, read this. It’s just more dnc operatives with bylines creating fake news. These people should read the fable of the boy that cried wolf…

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  25. louctiel

    You should come visit us in Hartford and Bridgeport, piddly towns in the People’s Republic of Connecticut, before you make that statement Louctiel. It is rampant.

    And you should know better than to make a non-provable statement as proof.  I am for seeking out how much fraud there is.  Then we can say factually whether it is “rampant” or not.

    I am very in favor of reforming the electoral rolls, although doing it properly would require a national voter database and possibly a national ID card.

    As I said in my post, it would not.  We don’t have a national driver’s license base and people can’ t have licenses in two states because of a compact between the states themselves.

    If I didn’t know better, I would suspect that you were just putting up a barrier to prevent finding out how much fraud there is and trying to stop it Hal.

     

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  26. CM

    “Dr. Asgari, a specialist in human genomics and genetics of infectious diseases, holds a doctorate from the École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne in Switzerland. She authors papers with titles like, “Disease-Corrected Hepatocyte-Like Cells from Familial Hypercholesterolemia-Induced Pluripotent Stem Cells,” and has given lectures on how rare genetic defects might make infants more susceptible to viral respiratory infections. (http://bit.ly/2kFyUkw)

    Last May, Soumya Raychaudhuri (PhD, MD), an associate professor of medicine at Brigham and Women’s Hospital and Harvard Medical School, attended a talk by Dr. Asgari at Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory in New York. Dr. Raychaudhuri’s lab studies “the basis of autoimmune disease using techniques in human genetics, bioinformatics, and systems biology,” so both he and Dr. Asgari work in related fields.

    He was impressed enough with her talk that he invited Dr. Asgari to work on a tuberculosis project at his laboratory. Dr. Asgari agreed, and was granted a J-1 Visa to work in the United States along with two years of funding for her research by the Swiss National Science Foundation.

    Earlier today, after months of planning, Dr. Asgari boarded a plane from Switzerland to Frankfurt. She then attempted to board a plane for the United States, where she was promptly rejected. You see, even though she lives in Switzerland, Dr. Asgari is an Iranian national. So she no longer qualifies for Trump’s America.

    It doesn’t matter that she already had an approved Visa, and it certainly doesn’t matter than she was going to be engaged in high-level research aimed at defeating tuberculosis, Type 1 diabetes, and rheumatoid arthritis. She’s Iranian. She’s Muslim. She’s not welcome. With no other choice, Dr. Asgari returned to Switzerland where she now has no job and no place to live.

    This is who we are now.”

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  27. pekka

    Maybe the executive order banning those folks is going to get adjusted at some point. Maybe Green Card holders will be allowed back in, maybe after some pressure from the courts. Or the EO will just be allowed to expire and things will go back to normal.

    But the damage will have been done: the Green Card is no longer a guarantee of permanent residence. Who knows when the next ban will be imposed, say after a terrorist attack? To you as a lawful immigrant the consequence is that the government might take away access to your life, livelihood, and family at the stroke of a pen if your country happens to be on its shit list, and there may be nothing you can do about it.

    Guess what that’ll do to the attractiveness of migrating to the US, especially if you’re from one of those countries?

    It’s very hard not to wonder whether that wasn’t the point all along.

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  28. Hal_10000 *

    Thoughts on removing the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Director of National Intelligence from the NSC and adding Bannon to it?

    Very bad.  Bannon is a crazy conspiracy theorist and, according to reports, one of the people who decided green card holders should be included in the ban.  Having him whispering into Trump’s ear is dangerous.

    The restrictions on green card holders really undermines Trump’s claim he’s doing this for security and not from anti-Muslim paranoia. Green card holders are thoroughly vetted (as are refugees, but that’s another story).  They can do everything but vote.  There are green card holders in our military, for Chrissake.  This is ridiculous and an indicator that it is the crazies like Bannon not the sensibles like Mattis, who will be guiding policy.

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  29. AlexInCT

    How does this bullshit not radicalise people?

    So us reacting to the fact their religion produces murderous scumbags, means we are radicalizing them? I think you have cause and effect reversed, dude. But then again, I think you know damned well that you are full of it, but don’t care because with you its all about the narrative.

    BTW, when president no-fly lists Obama did this, the media had no problem with it. In fact, when they got questioned about it, one of them was too honest.

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  30. AlexInCT

    Green card holders are thoroughly vetted (as are refugees, but that’s another story).  

    Oh man, that gave me a fucking hardcore laugh, dude. You seem to forget that despite the dnc operative’s with byline’s campaign to hide the truth about how dysfunctional and downright inept the US government – an entity that by default already set low standards for effectiveness in the best of times – became during the Obama years, things like this happened and can’t be hidden.

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  31. stogy

    So us reacting to the fact their religion produces murderous scumbags, means we are radicalizing them? 

    You do realize that this applies to Christians, Bahaiis, Zoroastrians,  Yasdis, Kurds, and other non-Muslims from these countries too?

    The left is out to prevent him from accomplishing anything, and if possible, destroy him. 

    Nah. The left don’t need to do anything. Just sit back and watch him self-destruct. From out here, things look really really bad. It would be fun to watch except for the massive potential for collateral damage to others that is likely to occur on the way down.

    A Canadian friend with a green card had to plead with an immigration officer  at US Customs not to send her to the holding pen, and she was given reason to believe that she might not be allowed back in. She’s tall, blonde, blue-eyed – and has no family connection to any of the countries on the list.  You may not care about this (and I don’t really care whether you care), but people I know have started boycotting American products and cancelling their Netflix subscriptions. That can’t be good for a jobs and growth president.

    There are currently a million tales of injustice and unfair treatment circulating around the world, whether it’s people from a select list of countries kicked off flights, or NGOs  in developing countries no longer able to treat women who have been raped or provide birth control for fear of a complete cut in funding, to Baltic Republics worried that NATO won’t be there when Putin orchestrates a coup and reattaches them to the Russian empire, to Ukrainians afraid that Trump will sell them out to Russia, to Taiwanese angry and fearful at being used as a bargaining chip against China. A lot of governments are worried about Trump pulling out of the Paris climate agreement, and sanctions are being talked about not so quietly in back corridors. And the US relationship with Mexico – the third biggest trading partner – is a just little short of peachy.

    Few international leaders look like they are now willing to take Trump at his word. 84% of Japanese people are worried about a Trump presidency, and the Japanese Central Bank is fearful of a trade and currency war with the US. It isn’t that Trump is taking a stand on trade imbalances between Japan and the US, it’s that he has issued multiple contradictory statements that produce uncertainty, undermine investment, and damage consumer sentiment.

    Nothing that Trump has done since he assumed office has set the mind of the rest of the world at ease. The US looks like it’s in complete chaos. And most people out here are talking about it like it’s a horror movie. He has dumped a truckload of shite all over any honeymoon period he might have expected – and no-one gets the blame for that but him.

     

     

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  32. AlexInCT

    You do realize that this applies to Christians, Bahaiis, Zoroastrians,  Yasdis, Kurds, and other non-Muslims from these countries too?

    When they start murdering people wholesale and claim that is God’s will, yes. Until then, spare me your idiotic attempt at equivocating, because it is transparently faulty. There is a reason that people on the left pick on christians but all but grab their ankles trying to defend murderous muslims: one group saws off your head, the other just talks back. You do the math.

    Nah. The left don’t need to do anything. Just sit back and watch him self-destruct.

    This sounds soooo familiar.. Wait, I know when I heard it! When they told me if he won the republican primary, then the right was toast. Then I heard it one hundred more times as the lying dnc operatives with bylines did their best to lie to favor crooked Hillary and make him look bad. How did that work out for them again?

    From out here, things look really really bad. It would be fun to watch except for the massive potential for collateral damage to others that is likely to occur on the way down.

    You sure about that? Must be why the left has spent the last few months since Trump won pants-shitting and throwing tantrums. Telling us all every single thing was the end of the world, and that this had to be what would end him. And yet, I see him in charge and them looking like idiots.

    Don’t get me wrong Stogy: I for one pray the left keeps doing what they have been doing. Their credibility has been completely burned, and the more damage they do to themselves – while thinking they are actually doing it to Trump – the better. They are being played like cheap puppets, while those people not completely lobotomized by leftist ideology, are getting a front seat view of how deranged the left really is, and I am loving it! I posted here before the election that I hoped Trump would win so we could see Hillary go bananas and destroy herself like Gore did after he failed to steal the 2000 election with an army of lawyers. But watching the entire left, especially the lefty political elite and the dnc operatives with bylines, implode: that is beyond my wildest fantasies.

    Go ahead and label the people that have had enough of the failure of the credentialed elite, the lies of their beholden ideological mouthpieces pretending to be an unbiased media, and of watching people that’s only skill is to delude themselves into thinking they know better, as being sub human, racist, misogynistic, homophobic, fascists (something laughable considering leftists are the true fascists, and fascism is a leftist ideology), and what not. Fling that pooh at the walls like the angry butthurt monkeys you all are, rage and show that anger and despair, exaggerate everything as if it is the end of the world that the plebes had the temerity to turn on their betters, and hold nothing back. Most of all accuse them of not being as smart as you lefist and tell them nothing but bad is coming when they clearly see the exact opposite happening. I don’t think anyone could do a better job to harm the left than the left is doing right now.

    And sure, keep telling us any moment now Trump will do himself in. Then rage at the next thing he does when he keeps keeping on.

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  33. CM

    “Who could have predicted that giving the White House to a game-show host with a disastrous business history and a glaring personality disorder would turn out so badly?”
    – Andy Borowitz

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  34. CM

    “those people not completely lobotomized by leftist ideology”

    Hmm. Except if you actually open your eyes you’d notice that opposition to what Trump is doing is coming from everywhere. Disapproval rating over 50% already, it’s been growing all week. So, as usual, you are completely delusional.

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  35. Balthazar

    Trump and his guys did screw this up, though its an easy fix, current greencard and visa holders as well as those with already approved refugee status should be able to get in to the US. Fix that and most of these problems go away.

     

    The Dual citizenship is more tricky. Unless the one duality is a US passport, then they need to be looked at more closely. For instance, there are plenty of people that are UK citizens I wouldn’t want in the US. Just like the UK has its “ban” on individuals, we can do the same.

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  36. AlexInCT

    Hmm. Except if you actually open your eyes you’d notice that opposition to what Trump is doing is coming from everywhere.

    Actually CM, I see all his opposition coming from the left and entrenched special interests & elites that see the status quo is going to get upended. What you are not seeing, and continue to refuse to accept, is that there are far more of us that want the end to business as usual, as the election results clearly show. But more importantly, what really will be the downfall of people like you are revelations like this, this, this, and a slew of other such things.

    What we are seeing are religious fanatics of the left, going ballistic in their final acts of desperation, as they realize that the vision of the world they had goes up in flames. And both are awesome things for humanity. That the totalitarian and evil beliefs of the left get done away with and that the fanatical pants-shitting response to that revelation, lead to this nonsense, is awesome for those of us that know better. The harder these elitist and entitled people fight the coming changes, the more obvious it is to others that what we are dealing with is a backlash by people that are mad that they will lose the special status a rigged system provided them, and now, will actually have to add value instead of just belonging to the right club.

    I do have to thank Obama and those people that came to his defense of the indefensible for overusing all the left’s usual vile tactics to excess and rendering them all useless. Without that and the blatantly obvious lying by the left and their operatives with bylines, we wouldn’t be here today able to shrug off the constant campaign of lies and exaggerations. Enjoy your quasi-religion being relegated to the ash heap of history lefties!

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  37. AlexInCT

    Trump and his guys did screw this up, though its an easy fix, current greencard and visa holders as well as those with already approved refugee status should be able to get in to the US. Fix that and most of these problems go away.

    I am suspecting that this was not a mistake at all, as they have already fixed it, and that what it was intended to do was to get the exact reaction they got from the mad cows. I mean, am I the only one that noticed the list of banned countries are the ones Obama bombed, then fucked up, then put on a special watch list? Anyway, the rest of what Trump’s team wanted and put in that EO got through, all while they showed that these people acting all butthurt are not only hypocrites that had no problem with Obama doing this before, but more importantly, made it blatantly clear that the left would rather stick to its ideological pap than do what would help to mitigate a murderous cult.

    And that last one is the one that will hurt the most. More importantly, this was one of Trump’s campaign promises. I still remember a thread where the leftoids here where gleefully pointing out Trump was breaking his campaign promises. Now they are doing the same thing when he kept one. Seems like that’s their only response: pants-shitting and crying foul. Lucky for him, Trump knows how the left plays, and he is playing them right back. Like a fiddle, and their over the top reactions, their exaggerations and outright lying, and the pants-shitting madness, are beyond damaging (to the left’s own credibility).

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  38. pekka

    I am suspecting that this was not a mistake at all, as they have already fixed it, and that what it was intended to do was to get the exact reaction they got from the mad cows. I

    That seems to make no logical sense at all. If they had just issued a ban on new refugees, and everyone went apeshit even though Obama did something similar back in ’11 to the sound of crickets, that would have been hypocritical.

    Banning GC holders and holders of current visa literally in mid-air is not something Obama (nor anyone else, as far as I can see, since the Chinese Exclusion Act) has ever done, so I’m not sure how doing this and causing everyone to go apeshit over it is somehow a masterful plan to demonstrate how hypocritical everyone is.

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  39. Hal_10000 *

    That seems to make no logical sense at all. If they had just issued a ban on new refugees, and everyone went apeshit even though Obama did something similar back in ’11 to the sound of crickets, that would have been hypocritical.

    This exactly.  This whole thing was a clusterfuck. Had Trump announced that he would impose a ban on refugees a week from then, after consultation with OLC and DHS, the green card holders and those in transit would be exempted, the outcry would have been very muted.  Hell, I might have disagreed but would not have been as angry as I right now.

    (Trump is excusing this, saying a bunch of “bad hombres” would have tried to get in under the ban, again demonstrating his ignorance.  It’s REALLY HARD to get a visa from those seven countries.  You can’t do it in a week.)

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  40. stogy

    I am suspecting that this was not a mistake at all, as they have already fixed it, and that what it was intended to do was to get the exact reaction they got from the mad cows.

    … including ISIS, who have come out in support of it. Apparently they like the idea of Trump driving a wedge between the US government and the US Muslim community. Who would have thought?

    Oh and the Iraqis are kind of upset too. They are threatening a retaliation ban, which well, you know… wouldn’t mean much, except for the fact that there are loads of Americans there fighting ISIS.

    Who would have thought that pissing off your friends would have consequences? I’m mystified. Nothing to worry about though. Just mad cows.

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  41. stogy

    Leaders of the Islamic State speak frequently of their intention to drive a wedge between Western governments and their Muslim populations, and have welcomed outside help – intentional or not – in fulfilling that goal. In a 2015 essay in the Islamic State’s English-language magazine Dabiq, the group said that its motivation for launching terrorist attacks in Europe was to provoke an anti-Muslim backlash that would force ambivalent Muslims to enlist with them.

    “Jihadists would have to argue to lengths that Obama, Bush, and others held anti-Islam agendas and hated the religion – not just radical terrorists,” said Rita Katz, founder of the SITE Intelligence Group, a private organization that monitors jihadist websites. “Trump, however, makes that argument a lot easier for them to sell to their followers.”

    Robert Richer, a 35-year CIA veteran and former chief of the agency’s Near East division, said the ban was a “strategic mistake” that could undermine future efforts to recruit spies and collect vital information about terrorists and their plans. How, he asked, can CIA officers persuade Iraqi and Syrian nationals to risk their lives to help the United States?

    “This was a win for jihadists and other anti-U.S. forces,” said Richer, the deputy chief of the agency’s Operations Directorate during the George W. Bush administration. “It fuels the belief out there that Americans are anti-Islam. Otherwise, it accomplishes nothing, because the ones we are most concerned about can still get to the United States.”

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  42. AlexInCT

    That seems to make no logical sense at all. If they had just issued a ban on new refugees, and everyone went apeshit even though Obama did something similar back in ’11 to the sound of crickets, that would have been hypocritical.

    WTF? They temporary stay to reassess the vetting process (not any sort of ban ) on people claiming refugee status, from countries that had been marked as problematic by the Obama admin. The left then threw a tantrum, called it a wholesale ban (a massive exaggeration if not a downright lie), and in general added nothing of value to the conversation. What did I miss?

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  43. AlexInCT

    Well, technically, Trump did lose the popular vote…

    Let me use sport analogy you might understand.

    Let’s say we have a soccer game and one of the teams scores 3 goals while only having 3 shots on goal for the entire match, and the other only scores one goal, despite taking over 20 shots. Who would you say won the game?

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  44. AlexInCT

    … including ISIS, who have come out in support of it. Apparently they like the idea of Trump driving a wedge between the US government and the US Muslim community. Who would have thought?

    Ask those Canadians that just had a bunch of radicalized refugees shoot up their mosque how they would feel about their government deciding to put a temporary stay on immigration to make sure they were properly vetting people asking for assylum. I think you might be surprised they are not as stupid as you leftists are about it.

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  45. pekka

    Let’s say we have a soccer game and one of the teams scores 3 goals while only having 3 shots on goal for the entire match, and the other only scores one goal, despite taking over 20 shots. Who would you say won the game?

    I didn’t dispute who won the game. The left’s “Donald Trump isn’t really President because he lost the popular vote” talking point is stupid. The rules are as old as the republic and Trump won fair and square.

    You talked about how the election clearly shows that there’s far more of you who want Trump to end business as usual, though. The popular vote tally would seem to contradict that.

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  46. pekka

    WTF? They temporary stay to reassess the vetting process (not any sort of ban ) on people claiming refugee status, from countries that had been marked as problematic by the Obama admin. The left then threw a tantrum, called it a wholesale ban (a massive exaggeration if not a downright lie), and in general added nothing of value to the conversation. What did I miss?

    Um… what? People with valid visas and Green Cards  were detained and turned back at airports, and in some instances allegedly made to sign a form giving their permanent resident status away (although there’s loads of BS floating around, so let’s strike that for the moment). That’s what the whole protest circus at the airports was about.

     

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  47. AlexInCT

    “Jihadists would have to argue to lengths that Obama, Bush, and others held anti-Islam agendas and hated the religion – not just radical terrorists,” said Rita Katz, founder of the SITE Intelligence Group, a private organization that monitors jihadist websites. “Trump, however, makes that argument a lot easier for them to sell to their followers.”

    You don’t think the left twisting everything he said to make it appear that Trump had a problem with Islam in general, rather than a problem with the radicalized elements, might have something to do with this perception? I want to hear this spin.

    I have to admit that I am also surprised you chose to act as if you thought Boosh wasn’t an Islam hater to make your argument. I remember when he was constantly accused of being that. I also guess the convenient switch to now saying otherwise was so you could accuse Trump of being Hitler.

    See it is funny how with leftist whomever the current top people on the right may be, they are accused of being the second coming of Hitler. That is until the next guy comes along. And then suddenly that new guy is Hitler, and the ones accused previously of being Hitler, suddenly are great statesmen and to be emulated for some reason.

    Boosh was Hitler until he left power. Same for McCain, Romney, and so on. But now, suddenly they are all great statesmen and Trump is Hitler…

    Hmmmmm…

    Yeah, sure.

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  48. AlexInCT

    You talked about how the election clearly shows that there’s far more of you who want Trump to end business as usual, though. The popular vote tally would seem to contradict that.

    Again, if the popular vote tally mattered a bit, you would have point, Pekka. To me it doesn’t for a very good reason: to avoid the tyranny of the suburban handout seekers. Our system exists to prevent 6 wolves and 4 sheep from simply deciding what’s for dinner based on a straight up vote. If you ask me it is just a display of how brilliant the people that set this country up were that in the most critical of elections it saved the country from crooked Hillary’s reign of terror.

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  49. AlexInCT

    People with valid visas and Green Cards  were detained and turned back at airports, and in some instances allegedly made to sign a form giving their permanent resident status away (although there’s loads of BS floating around, so let’s strike that for the moment). That’s what the whole protest circus at the airports was about.

    Wish you held the left to the same standard as you want to hold Trump. Green cards I point out are subject to the government’s whim, and they can even be revoked. These people affected were inconvenienced, in a bad way sure, and the hype about it sure made it sound ominous that it happened. That this was a temporary stay, and that it allowed individual cases to be reviewed, was lost in the campaign to demonize Trump. Shit I am far more concerned with how bad the TSA treat people at airports and the fact that’s permanent right now.

    In the grand scheme of things, I can think of many more serious examples of government going bad that the left didn’t just ignore, but made excused for. Can you imagine how much Obama would have accomplished if the dnc operatives with bylines had reacted the same way to some of his really horrible EOs – lets say the ones around not properly vetting people from these countries in the first place – instead of constantly providing cover for how bad they where? Trump wouldn’t have had to go through this odious exercise in the first place.

    Know what I am saying?

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  50. pekka

     That this was a temporary stay, and that it allowed individual cases to be reviewed, was lost in the campaign to demonize Trump. 

    Nope, I followed this pretty closely and that doesn’t seem to be what happened. The order was ambiguous at first, and everyone was left to interpret whether Green Card and visa holders were included or not. Then the White House clarified that they were indeed included. The bit about case-by-case vetting came much later. Happy to look up sources if needed.

    Green cards I point out are subject to the government’s whim, and they can even be revoked.

    That is certainly technically true, but so far the Green Card has been a pretty solid promise of being allowed to live on U.S. soil and one of the basics of legal immigration. Denying legal permanent residents access to their lives, work, businesses and families for three months – and that’s what this initially looked like – as well as visa holders already in the air is  extraordinarily and unnecessarily cruel. Especially given that the country somehow got through two world wars, a cold war, and a mega terrorist attack without needing to resort to this.

    The halt on refugee applications alone is sad, and its merits can be debated, but as you say it’s not unusual and it was what he promised.

    Wish you held the left to the same standard as you want to hold Trump

    Oh, I am. I’m in constant fights with left-leaning friends about all sorts of hyperbolic things they say about the guy.

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  51. Hal_10000 *

    Let’s say we have a soccer game and one of the teams scores 3 goals while only having 3 shots on goal for the entire match, and the other only scores one goal, despite taking over 20 shots. Who would you say won the game?

    Alex, if you don’t know how analogies work, don’t use them.

    Ask those Canadians that just had a bunch of radicalized refugees shoot up their mosque

    When that happens all ask. Current indications are that this guy was a white supremacist. The claim that he was a Syrian refugee came from a fake reddit by Trump supporters. Stop spreading their bullshit lies.

    Green cards I point out are subject to the government’s whim, and they can even be revoked.

    Not like this, arbitrarily. There are conditions: criminal activity, fraud, etc. You really need to stop getting your talking points from anime subreddits and Info Wars boards.

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  52. AlexInCT

    Nope, I followed this pretty closely and that doesn’t seem to be what happened. The order was ambiguous at first, and everyone was left to interpret whether Green Card and visa holders were included or not. Then the White House clarified that they were indeed included. The bit about case-by-case vetting came much later. Happy to look up sources if needed.

    What’s your point exactly, Pekka? I get the feeling that you, and frankly most of the people on the left, really wouldn’t have had anything good to say about this EO, regardless of how it was implemented or rolled out. I have followed this pretty closely myself, and the amount of downright lies from the dnc operatives with bylines to paint this in the worst possible light, has been telling. The problem for this crowd is that the people that matter liked it;.

    That is certainly technically true, but so far the Green Card has been a pretty solid promise of being allowed to live on U.S. soil and one of the basics of legal immigration. 

    Not sure what you are trying to say here. I know someone that had their green card revoked (they pissed off someone in the Obama admin back in 2011 was my guess). And it is not like this EO invalidated or targeted all green cards. If anything, it was quite specific.

    Denying legal permanent residents access to their lives, work, businesses and families for three months – and that’s what this initially looked like – as well as visa holders already in the air is  extraordinarily and unnecessarily cruel.

    I would remind you that many, like me think taking a massive chunk of my earnings to buy votes with is also an abuse that is unnecessarily cruel, but practically every leftist seems to have no problem with that action by government, and actually hold me in contempt for saying enough is enough.I find this action far less cruel than what is being done to me and people like me.

    The halt on refugee applications alone is sad, and its merits can be debated, but as you say it’s not unusual and it was what he promised.

    I remind you that it was temporary, and intended to give his people time to make sure we were not being fucked over by the holdovers of the Obama EOs which basically removed all serious vetting and barred the people most in need of this kind of help: the horribly oppressed non-muslims from these countries. I keep coming back to the fact that none of his would have been needed if the EOs from Obama had not made a complete joke of the vetting process in the first place.

    Oh, I am. I’m in constant fights with left-leaning friends about all sorts of hyperbolic things they say about the guy.

    Then my hat is off to you sir. I am afraid you will go nowhere with it, unfortunately, if your friends are like the ones I know. I have repeatedly pointed out that these tantrums are affecting their credibility and that if they destroy the ability to call anything done by these people in question in the process of these tantrums, exaggerations, and lies, that we all will eventually lose. No avail. They can’t stop.

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  53. AlexInCT

    Alex, if you don’t know how analogies work, don’t use them.

    That’s it? How are you refuting what I pointed out? Is it because you don’t understand sports and that there are rules that determine winners and losers, just like elections? Should I have used a football analogy? If you as the QB pass for 400 yards and 2 TDs (the only one for your side), the other team passes for a mere 100 yards but scores 4 TDs and a field goal, does it matter one bit (other than to fantasy football idiots)?

    When that happens all ask. Current indications are that this guy was a white supremacist. The claim that he was a Syrian refugee came from a fake reddit by Trump supporters. Stop spreading their bullshit lies.

    Man I wish you were this passionate in your response to the lies from the left…

    Not like this, arbitrarily. 

    Ah, I see the problem. You think that this was an arbitrary action. I absolutely don’t. This is what governments are supposed and allowed to do. Look up protocols the US government can use when dealing with an epidemic, for example (they can impact even citizens). After Obama gutted the vetting process with his EOs, I am glad Trump put a halt to things until they can review what’s being done. And as the link I put in the post above shows, I am not alone on that by a wide margin.

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  54. stogy

    Yeah, that’s right. The Mosque attacker was a French Canadian university student, and a far right white nationalist supporter:

    QUEBEC CITY/TORONTO (Reuters) – A French-Canadian university student was the sole suspect in a shooting at a Quebec City mosque and was charged with the premeditated murder of six people, Canadian authorities said on Monday, in what Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called “a terrorist attack.”

    And from memory, none of the recent attacks on US soil have been committed by citizens of countries on the list – all have come from the countries not on the list. As a defense, it makes as much sense as your goalkeeping analogy.

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  55. stogy

    That’s it? How are you refuting what I pointed out? Is it because you don’t understand sports and that there are rules that determine winners and losers, just like elections? Should I have used a football analogy? 

    Heh! It’s more like one team had to score more goals that the other team to have their win recognized. The US electoral system operates (for whatever reason) as a gerrymandered system, so one team’s goal doesn’t have the same value as another team’s goal.

    Oh and by the way, a Federal Court has found that  Congressional districts in Wisconsin have been gerrymandered and ordered them to be withdrawn (and Senate maps too), so here’s hoping that at least one plank of the system falls apart.

    Wouldn’t it be nice to know that when your team wins the match, they have actually done it because they scored more goals?

     

     

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  56. Hal_10000 *

    Ah, I see the problem. You think that this was an arbitrary action.

    It was.  The order to apply this to green card holders literally came from bannon and Miller saying, “yeah green card holders too”.  See my Clusterfuck post about what an ad-hoc piece of garbage this was.  I hit Obama for using EO’s too much.  But his EO’s were run through a process so they weren’t ad-hoc pieces of shit that created chaos.

    Man I wish you were this passionate in your response to the lies from the left…

    I do.  A lot of lefties on twitter were instantly blaming Trump for the mosque attack before we even knew who this guy was.  And I still don’t blame Trump himself for it since he hasn’t called for violence. I do blame the white supremacist right wing shitheads.

    That’s it?

    Your analogy is shit because Clinton scored more “goals” than Trump did.  A better analogy is something like the world series.  In the last World Series, the Indians outscored the Cubs.  But the Cubs won four games.  It doesn’t matter how much you run up the score in your victories.  It’s the number of victories.  Our national elections are not one big glop.  They are 51 weighted individual contests.  And whoever wins the most, wins the election, no matter what the margins are.

    However … a wise man would have seen that he lost the popular vote and tried to be more conciliatory (as Bush was; which is why he was able to do things like cut taxes).  He would not have started spewing lies about how he won one of the biggest landslides in history.

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  57. CM

     I do blame the white supremacist right wing shitheads.

    ….who Trump has closely aligned with, including by putting one on the NSC.

    You might think so, but the evidence leads elsewhere….

    I bet Alex believes this was orchestrated to make Trump look bad, or the right look bad, or to increase sympathy for Muslims. Or something. Alex believes that only leftists commit evil acts, so there is no way he can allow this to be a a far right white nationalist supporter. Facts must fit his beliefs.

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