Brexit, Sounds Good To Me

Big vote tomorrow in the UK.

I’ll start off the post by stating the obvious, independence can be scary. Despite the poling that shows the 2 sides being pretty even, those wanting to stay admit that economics, the fear that their personal finances will suffer, rank as their number one concern. When Scotland faced the independence question in 2014, voters faced similar concerns and in the end those risk averse decided to stay put.

Americans, or at least those that know our history, have a special affinity for the pull towards being independent. To be the captain of your own ship and chart your own course has its appeal, naturally, you sink or swim on your own, no lifeline from the mother country. But we also know the benefits of this responsibility. Great wealth, great adventures, and great fortunes were made by those with the stomach to risk the comfortable for the possible.

The WSJ has had about half a dozen editorials of late penned by Brits who want independence and articulate the reasons why. Having little autonomy concerning your own laws, courts, trade deals and immigration policies does not sound appealing, playing right in to that liberty/security dichotomy that Ben Franklin talked about. Along side these personal pleas for independence, economists also weigh in, describing the global market turmoil that will ensue by those wishing to go their own way. Although these folks are much smarter then I am, markets, if anything, are resilient, Obama’s dreadful economic policies have taught us that.

I have to admit that one (small) reason I hope the Brexit vote passes is to humble our own president, the guy that went over to England and wagged his finger at the voters, threatening to put them at the back of the queue if they dared vote to leave. Much like when he first got in, travelling to the Olympic Committee meeting to lobby Chicago for the games. At that point his sycophants thought he walked on water (no doubt he did too), so him coming home empty handed was satisfying. That, and I think Cameron is a bit of a tool.

Milo thinks they should leave, lending more weight to that side of the scale;

Comments are closed.

  1. ilovecress

    I think the analogy that’s more accurate is the pull between Federal and States rights. It’s like if Massachusetts wanted to secede.

    I’m a remain person. I haven’t heard anything from the leave campaign that specifically says what they want to achieve beyond a vague feeling of sovereignty.

    The ‘onerous regulations’ that are often touted by the Leave campaign are exactly that. But we’ll still have to abide by them if we want to sell any of our stuff to the rest of the world. Leaving would only mean that we had no say in what these rules are.

    Leaving would free small businesses up from the burden of these regulations, true. But it would also mean that they wouldn’t ever be able to become anything more than small businesses (unless they adhere to our trade partners regulations – including you guys and China, by the way – which gets them right back to square one).

    On the immigration issue – addressing the video above – lets separate the Muslim problem from the immigration problem. The EU means free movement of EU nationals. That means it’s easier to work, trade and holiday. The immigration into the UK isn’t because of this. It’s because the UK has created a need for labour and the desire to work there. Immigrants come from Poland because it’s easier for them than an Egyptian. Immigration won’t reduce, it’ll just come from somewhere else. If you want to fix immigration, fix immigration – nothing to do with the EU.

    And to address the video above – immigration and Muslim extremism are separate issues, and again have nothing to do with the EU. The Rotheram Case he mentions – they weren’t recent immigrants, and anyway they were from Pakistan. All the terrorist attacks have been from Muslims already here. Leaving the EU would fix none of this.

    So in short, I don’t actually know what the Leave campaign are trying to achieve. I totally get it, that we hate the Frogs and the Krauts – and if being independent of Europe was in any way beneficial, I’d be all for it. They do have legitimate issues, and ones that need to be addressed – but leaving the EU won’t really help. If they vote leave today, then there’s a huge job tomorrow to work out what the f*ck we’re going to do next…

    The EU is frustrating. I get that. Like you guys get frustrated by your congress. But what would your State gain by leaving the United States?

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  2. richtaylor365 *

    Thanks for the response, Cress, you are the closet thing we have here to a Brit (do you still consider yourself a Brit?)

     I haven’t heard anything from the leave campaign that specifically says what they want to achieve beyond a vague feeling of sovereignty.

    Isn’t sovereignty enough? Besides, there was many reasons for leaving. What about removing the shackles of Brussel’s onerous regulations and being free to make your own trade deals, deals not one size fits all but that would benefit the UK specifically? When you look at the EU, its 4 presidents are not elected but appointed, power to initiate legislation rests entirely with an unelected commission. Its court can overrule your own Parliament. Some have even claimed that the rigidity of its regulations stifle innovation, hence there are no Googles, Amazons, Apples, or Facebooks in Europe.  The EU also decides what tariffs are imposed collectively, not what is in the best interest of the individual countries.

    Regarding radical Islamists living in the UK, how about the voters get to decide the criteria for deporting those they deem a danger instead of allowing the EU human rights commission to decide this?

    Regarding the rule of law, how about letting the Brits decide what laws they should enact and have their own judges adjudicate them? If you remember your American history, it was this same taxation without representation, the enacting of laws the colonists found regressive, this is what pushed them from a point of reconciliation, to that of independence.

     Like you guys get frustrated by your congress

     

    Except that we elect our congressmen.

     

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  3. ilovecress

    do you still consider yourself a Brit?

    Abso-fucking-lutely Gunvor!

    removing the shackles of Brussel’s onerous regulations

    And replace them with……. ? our own onerous regulations? Again, the EU isn’t the problem, but a red tape loving, litigious economic culture. And anyway – if we want to trade with the EU (50% at the moment) we’ll have to agree to them anyway. Again, recognise the problem, but the wrong solution.

     free to make your own trade deals, deals not one size fits all but that would benefit the UK specifically?

    A gamble. Yes we may be able to negotiate a better deal for the UK. But claiming that is based on what? We’d be a smaller market, so we wouldn’t have that bargaining chip. Again, it might be true, but as a nation the size of Alabama, we’re not doing too badly now.

    When you look at the EU, its 4 presidents are not elected but appointed, power to initiate legislation rests entirely with an unelected commission

    I’m somewhat with you here – but its a bit more complicated than that.

    While they’re not elected, they are nominated by the national State – it’s not like it’s just a bunch of dudes in Brussels. They also have to be approved by the (elected) European parliament.

    In fact it’s the same system that we have in the UK – with the Civil Service (check out Yes Minister if you’re a fan of British Comedy). Unelected Civil Servants are appointed to run things by the elected members of Parliament. (I used to work for the permanent secretary of Transport – specifically lobbying Cameron to keep him in the position, despite him having worked for the other side for years.)

    Again, I see the complaint, but not sure Brexit is solving the issue.

    Some have even claimed that the rigidity of its regulations stifle innovation, hence there are no Googles, Amazons, Apples, or Facebooks in Europe

    So are you claiming that the US is under regulated? /snark.
    Seriously though, this may be right, but not sure Brexit solves that problem.

    Regarding the rule of law, how about letting the Brits decide what laws they should enact and have their own judges adjudicate them?

    Absolutely – but I think in reality the ‘more freedom’ would be an illusion. To function in the global economy, we’d still have to play by their rules, without being able to influence what those rules are. Sure there might be some wins, but overall I can’t see a significant upside in terms of sovereignty.

    Except that we elect our congressmen

    We elect our MEPs

    TLDR: I’m not saying that I don’t agree with a lot of the gripes of the leave campaign. I’m just not sure that Brexit is the answer to any of them, certainly not enough to outweigh the significant downside. Brexit seems like a solution searching for a problem.

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  4. AlexInCT

    And replace them with……. ? our own onerous regulations? Again, the EU isn’t the problem, but a red tape loving, litigious economic culture.

    Amen, yet again, sir! if Britain leaves the EU only so the local pols can do what Brussels does to the people today anyway, I am not sure I see that as an improvement.

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  5. ilovecress

    if Britain leaves the EU only so the local pols can do what Brussels does to the people today anyway, I am not sure I see that as an improvement.

    Actually, the British Government voted in favour of 98% of the EU laws in force today.

    Not sure if you’re interested, but I thought I’d give you an update anyway.

    So the polls have just closed. I think the remarkable thing is going to be the turnout. Some precincts are reporting turnouts of over 80%.

    It’s very early, but my gut is that Remain have edged it. The polls are saying around 52/48, but they weren’t exactly nostradamus last time so we’ll see. The main things that have happened today that seem to indicate remain is about the politicking that’s been going on.

    A bunch of MPs have pledged to Cameron which suggests this is the way the wind is blowing (an interesting subplot is that this was a sort of proxy leadership contest between Cameron and Johnson. If Brexit won, Camerons position would have been precarious)

    The financial markets have been crazy today – gambling on remain. They’re due to lose a lot of money if Brexit wins, so that would suggest the wind is blowing in the remain camp.

    There’s also some infighting in the Brexit camp. Nigel Farage (UKIP leader and duck voiced man-baby) came out with some late stage political ads that were blatantly false – which seems to have swayed a few undecided people over to the side of the non-odious. He basically made it about racism, ignoring all the non racist aspects.

    Boris Johnson (ex London Mayor and drunk history teacher)  and Farage are softening their language now – talking about the momentous democratic feat – when if they were confident, they’d probably be a bit more bullish.

    Sunderland is one of the first regions to return, and that will be a good bellweather. It should be firmly Brexit, and if it’s not strong, then Remain will be celebrating.

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  6. ilovecress

    Still on a knife edge – but now the Remain politicians are playing the blame game. With about 7 million votes in the Remain lead is just 20,000. The wind is blowing in the direction of leave though…..

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  7. ilovecress

    Yep – so it’s looking like Britain will leave the EU. And I guess we’re beginning to get a look at what the uncertainty will bring. Looks like the UK will wake up tomorrow with no trade deals, the Pound with it’s biggest fall ever, the Bank of England talking about cutting interest rates and probably the resignation of our Prime Minster.

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  8. richtaylor365 *

    I’m torn, my portfolio rose 3% today on the then forecasts  you guys would stay put.

    I’ve also heard these worries analogous to the Y2K fear.

    and probably the resignation of our Prime Minster

    80 Brexit MP’s sent him a letter asking him to stay.

     the Pound with it’s biggest fall ever

    So, I guess this would be a good time to take that London trip?

     

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  9. ilovecress

    Farage just gave a victory speech saying that they won “without a shot being fired” which was slightly in poor taste given the murder of Jo Cox by a UKIP supporter.

    I think those letters were sent when we thought Brexit would fail. I’m not sure Cameron could realistically claim any mandate after he loses this.

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  10. ilovecress

    Cameron has resigned. Holy shitballs.

    As people are waking up, I think the reality is hitting them a little bit. Shock in London.

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  11. CM

    Ask a stupid question…… What an unmitigated disaster. Business owner friends in the UK are seriously shitting their pants.

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  12. InsipiD

    Now that it’s a done deal, Britain will have to negotiate terms on her own, which will probably closely mimic the EU.  I don’t have a problem with that since the problem here seems to be the loss of control.  Now that they have control back, it’s one less thing that can be used as an excuse when doing something stupid.

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  13. richtaylor365 *

    Congratulations ,Cress, you guys just put on your big boy pants.

    I wouldn’t be too worried about Cameron resigning, even though he was 10 times better then our guy, he still worshiped at the alter of Islamic PCism.

    There will be some growing pains, some fits and starts, but it will be worth it. It’s time for that English perseverance to step up, the British Empire has an illustrious history, you can manage a little autonomy.

    Now, deport all those hate and jihad spewing clerics, get rid of the Sharia courts, start thinking nationally not globally and your immigrants will want to assimilate.

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  14. AlexInCT

    I wouldn’t be too worried about Cameron resigning, even though he was 10 times better then our guy, he still worshiped at the alter of Islamic PCism.

    I beg to differ. He was at least a 100 times better than the evil idiot we have…

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  15. CM

    It’s certainly a victory for the “we want free shit” brigade. That was a major advertising plank of the Leave campaign (in addition to all the thinly veiled racism and ugly tribalism).

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  16. CM

    Yeah Cameron was so good he gave them this referendum and royally fucked himself and likely gave rise to the end of Kingdom. That will be his legacy for eternity. But he’s still a billion times better than Obama, who has lost zero states. Because, Obama. Genius strikes yet again.

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