Sully Panics

With the GOP race basically over (Trump won Indiana overwhelmingly last night), Andrew Sullivan has emerged from hiding to pen a piece for the New Yorker that sites Plato, Sinclair Lewis and Eric Hoffer to argue that Trump represents the end of our democracy.

Seriously.

For Trump is not just a wacky politician of the far right, or a riveting television spectacle, or a Twitter phenom and bizarre working-class hero. He is not just another candidate to be parsed and analyzed by TV pundits in the same breath as all the others. In terms of our liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction-level event. It’s long past time we started treating him as such.

No, he’s not.

I’ve said this before and I expect to say it again a lot over the next six months, especially if Trump begins to close in the polls or, Heaven help us, wins. Trump is not Hitler. At worst, he is a low-rent George Wallace. We can survive him. And we will.

Nick Gillespie has a great response:

The most important thing to understand about Trump is that he is not the start of anything new but the culmination of a long degenerative process that has been at work for the entirety of the 21st century. He is a sterile mule in the end, not a jackass who might have hideous offspring. He is the effect, not the cause, of the ways in which the two major parties have destroyed themselves by refusing to take their own rhetoric or govern seriously. The Republican Party said it stood for small government when virtually every major action it has pursued at least since the 9/11 attacks has yielded the opposite result. The Democratic Party, still trying to maintain a disparate collection of special-interest groups that started morphing and changing and expiring by the mid-1960s, lays claim to the mantle of caring about regular Americans even as its last three major presidential candidates (John Kerry, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton) long ago achieved escape velocity from caring about anything resembling everyday reality.

The century was ushered in under the single-most-contested election in U.S. history, with each party suddenly adopting the other’s philosophy in pursuit of victory. The Republicans called it a federal matter while the Dems wholeheartedly embraced state’s rights (this switcheroo would repeat itself in the Terri Schiavo affair). The deep-seated recognition by voters that each party is uncommitted to anything approaching its core values is what’s driving the 2016 election season. While enjoying complete control of the federal government for years under Bush, the Republican Party didn’t just go war-crazy but spending-crazy, regulation-crazy, and entitlement-crazy.

Gillespie argues, not unconvincingly, that Trump was the only GOP candidate who seemed to stand for anything. And I would add that Sanders’ popularity was because he was the only candidate who seemed to stand for anything. Ultimately, the Democratic establishment had more control over their process than the GOP did of theirs (and, as Conor notes, has not invested as much in toxic rhetoric). But you can almost imagine the American voter echoing the dying words of Shepherd Book: “I don’t care what you believe in, just believe in it.”

My take is slightly different. The country isn’t 100% conservative or 100% liberal. Or even 51%. Or even 30%. Issues have be resolved with compromise and deal-making and no one gets everything they want. Reagan, to cite the most obvious example, had strong conservative principles but compromised to get a conservative agenda passed.

But what’s been going on in Washington for the last 15 years has not been compromise between two principled if opposed ideologies; it’s been mindless gamesmanship and selling out. “Wall Street reform” that further empowered big bangs. “Health care reform” that made health insurance more expensive. Budgets that never go through a real budgeting process. Wars started stupidly and managed poorly. A “War on Terror” that mainly eats the privacy and freedom of law-abiding citizens.

Trump is indeed the end stage of that: an uninformed unthinking demagogue who makes ridiculous promises that can’t possibly be fulfilled. Maybe if such a candidate crashes and burns, we’ll see a better saner GOP emerge from the rubble.

Or not. I wouldn’t complete discount the “stockpile food and ammo” approach here. The last few months have been rough. I’ve been blogging less, in part, because I’m simply sick of it. We’ll get a brief respite now as both candidates try to consolidate their parties. And then I’m anticipating unrelenting ugliness from the conventions to the election.

Maybe I’ll just start blogging about cats or something.

Still, despite Sully’s hysterics, I expect the country to soldier on. We are more than our government. It holds us down, it ties our hands, it beats our asses. But we keep trudging along: going to work, raising our kids, doing our best. As long as that stays true, no politician, not even Donald Trump, can be an “extinction-level event”.

Comments are closed.

  1. repmom

    We can survive him. And we will.

    Sure. Him or Hillary. No sweat. It’ll only be four years. It’ll go by fast. Right?

    Appears John Kasich is suspending his campaign today. Why now? Why the hell did he even stay in this long?

    Maybe I’ll just start blogging about cats or something.

    Cats are good. Cute and furry and cuddly and all.

     

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  2. RonK

    you have to hand it to the democrats, how else could they guarantee   winning the election in Nov, get the republicans to nominee another democrat, if Trump should actually do the election they win, if Hilary wins they win.  win win for the democrats, big loss and I do mean big loss for the American people.

    Trump is to the presidential election what Christine O’Donnell was to the Delaware senate race.

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  3. WVRSpence

    Trump is the result of the arrogance of the GOP establishment. It imploded big time, its “conservative” enablers are having freak-outs, and in general the whole thing is what happens when you take your voters for granted, and then talk down to them.

    So be it. We really do get the governments we deserve. Trump may make America great again, or be all talk as President, but he would, for better or worse, really represent us more as a people than Hillary would. There’s a moral in that, somewhere.

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  4. Hal_10000 *

    Trump is the result of the arrogance of the GOP establishment. It imploded big time, its “conservative” enablers are having freak-outs, and in general the whole thing is what happens when you take your voters for granted, and then talk down to them.

    Agree to some extent.  Certainly, National Review’s “Not Trump” issue smacked of “hey, plebs, listen to us!”  It’s not that they were wrong about Trump. It’s that people have gotten sick of the condescension.

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  5. richtaylor365

      Certainly, National Review’s “Not Trump” issue smacked of “hey, plebs, listen to us!”

    That was not my take. Each author provided a cogent picture of why Trump was bad for conservatism, bad for the GOP and bad for America.

    Trump is the result of the arrogance of the GOP establishment.

    The WSJ had a piece this morning describing how Obama created Trump single handedly;

    Mr. Obama has alienated allies like Israel while encouraging adversaries like Iran and Cuba. He has fostered Americans’ record-breaking dependence on government programs and record-low participation in the workforce. He has expanded the power, size and expense of the federal government in unprecedented ways, all at the expense of Americans’ freedom, standard of living and economic well-being.

    But the president truly doesn’t get enough credit for creating one of the most polarizing forces in American politics today. No, not Hillary—that is more Bill’s doing. Let’s be honest: There would be no Donald Trump, dominating the political scene today if it were not for President Obama.

    It was a natural reaction, to contrast this girl jean wearing, lead from behind, world citizen who never misses an opportunity to catalogue America’s sins, for folks to embrace a  perceived real leader who promises jobs, prosperity, and American greatness. Yeah, it is about as simple as that.

     

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  6. CM

    I guess the Blame Obama circle is now complete. Brilliant.

    Yeah Trump will represent you as a people so long as you’re white and male and didn’t get captured in a war.

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  7. richtaylor365

    Brilliant

    No, it’s rather elementary. The abomination known as Carter brought us Reagan, this is what Obama has spawned. Do we really need to go over yet again all the failings of your guy?

    Bill Whittle has a cogent piece on his “smart diplomacy”;

    Or would you rather revisionist history Obamanomics?

    Since the recession ended in June 2009, the economy has advanced at a 2.2% annual pace through the end of last year. That’s more than a half-percentage point worse than the next-weakest expansion of the past 70 years, the one from 2001 through 2007. While there have been highs and lows in individual quarters, overall the economy has failed to break out of its roughly 2% pattern for six years.

    How about the poverty numbers, those of public assistance, job/wage stagnation? Face it, there is nothing that he has touched that did not turn to shit.

    Race relations? Has it ever been worse?

    But yeah, ODS {massive chuckle}

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  8. CM

    Wow, even worse than I thought. Are you trying to argue that you do suffer from ODS? If so, you’re doing a great job? Do you ever attempt to look at things objectively, or do your sources make that impossible for you (certainly seems so)? What you’ve put up is kinda what leads to people like Trump being popular.

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  9. CM

    Let me see if I’ve got the race relations theory correct. Is it that people are sick of Obama stirring up those uppity negroes, and so naturally they want Trump who clearly will keep all non-whites in their place, which is presumably considered to be ‘good race relations’ (like how things used to ‘work’)? Is that pretty much it?

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  10. CM

    Also, I suspect blacks would argue that ‘race relations’ were worse when they were swinging in trees, or kept in slavery.

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  11. AlexInCT

    Let me see if I’ve got the race relations theory correct. Is it that people are sick of Obama stirring up those uppity negroes, and so naturally they want Trump who clearly will keep all non-whites in their place, which is presumably considered to be ‘good race relations’ (like how things used to ‘work’)? Is that pretty much it?

    You are a fucking douche, dude. That is what assholes like you that want to use to defend  Obama’s abysmal record and how disruptive and bad his presidency has been for not just us Americans, but for the world at large.

    So let me type real fucking slow for you so you can maybe grasp what the fuck I am saying. My objection with Obama is about the fact the he is red, as in a fucking collectivist scumbag America hater, and I could give a rats ass if he was a fucking green martian. In fact, I guarantee you that the only reason people are still defending this despicable man’s presidency, with exactly that shit argument you just made I add, is because they know they have no real fact to rebut any of the accusations of failure, disruptiveness, abuse of power, and down right criminal behavior, leveled at him and his people. It is basically the only tactic idiots like you and the others that still feel obligated to defend the indefensible have left. There isn’t a single thing you can bring up where Obama personally or his administration in general have not been abysmal failures and downright criminal.

    War? Shit, the Nobel peace prize winner makes Boosh look like an amateur for being stupid enough to actually work within the system of laws. The world is a far more dangerous place after the Obama presidency than it was during the height of the Cold War. Iran is gonna build a bomb because they lied to the American people. The rest of the Middle East will follow Iran’s foot steps and go nuclear as well, when they never felt that obligation when their supposed mortal enemy, Israel, went nuclear. China, which up until Obama had been playing chess with the west, decided Obama was so weak and unreliable, and had done so much damage to the US military, that it no longer even feels it needs to pretend not to be a belligerent imperialist nation. And Russia has also figured out they can do the same. America’s once friends now don’t trust her, while our enemies all feel Obama has made sure America is too weak to deal with the chaos they are causing. The list of failures from the deal making to the State Department allowing our ambassador to be murdered so the democrats could win an election, is so long that I am going to end up surprised it has not set a historical president.

    Economic woe? The SWJ crowd Obama leads have managed to double this country’s debt, all while destroying our economy. The only people that made out like bandits where the usual crowd of ultra rich and well connected people that buy favors from democrats. In every other statistic you may be able to measure, they have dragged things down. Americans face a bleak economic future after 8 years of connected people robbing the productive sector blind. Every demographic other than the political class and those connected to the democrats has seen their fortunes dwindle. Unemployment numbers don’t reflect how bad things really are. We have now been told for going on seven years that the economy was recovering only to have the facts show the exact opposite, and now they can’t even blame Boosh for that shit anymore because they know nobody believes them. But hey, the democrats tell idiots that they will just steal even more from others to buy their votes with free shit. Most of us that have worked hard and sacrificed to save for our retirements worry when the government will just strip us of this while claiming they are doing this all because we unjustly have more than the people that didn’t sacrifice and save. No demographic has suffered worse than colored people either.

    Obama and the other crooks on the left have basically put into play a parade of horrible things that will tear down this great nation. From Obamacare, which will destroy our healthcare system, to a DOJ and IRS that target the left’s political enemies and have made a mockery of our system of laws and taxation, they have taken every institution you can think of and left it worse off or made it a downright threat to the American people. The left is working to not just deprive us of our rights and money, but wants us to accept that they feel we deserve no privacy unless we conform to what they want. Obama’s great legacy will be the destruction of a great nation.

    Trump exists because of what Obama and the left have done. They have stopped pretending that they don’t hold us plebes in contempt and think themselves above us and the law. America is divided.

     

    The only truth about Obama’s race is that had he not been black he would never have stood a chance as a candidate.

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  12. CM

    Even if that were all remotely true and not the rantings of an ideological partisan ODI suffering nutjob, Trump’s rhetoric (and policies, in so much as he has any) would double-down on pretty much all of it. He advocates war crimes, being Putin’s buddy, proceeding to almost a war footing with China, and giving the world a permanent middle finger, particularly Muslims countries. Like Rich, you’re proudly advertising your ODS. Trump is clearly now a key feature of that badge of honour.

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  13. CM

    Auto-correct changed that first ODS to ODI. For the record I don’t think you’re suffering from a One Day (cricket) International.

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  14. AlexInCT

    Even if that were all remotely true

    It is not remotely true: it is absolutely true. The mountain of evidence out there is indisputable and the only people that do are the partisan hacks that want to pretend that the Obama presidency has not been a disaster. Of course you, being the type of douchebag that you are, will never admit it is the truth, just like the media will not. Obama has surpassed Jimmy Carter as the worst president in my lifetime, and that was a feat I never thought could be accomplished.

    Here is my prediction: as soon as a democrat loses the presidency, they will finally admit how bad things have gotten, but then, as they are always wont to do, blame it on anyone but democrats responsible for it.

    You and the other cocksuckers like you that still feel obligated to defend the indefensible can go to the usual tropes – calling people that point out how bad Obama and his presidency have been racist or accuse them of having ODS – to avoid having to disprove the accusations with facts, but the facts speak for themselves. This guy has been a failure and it was blatantly obvious three years ago. Things have only gotten worse since then. The only reason the entire planet isn’t facing a recession is that despite the lefts efforts oil production in the US has crippled OPEC. This guy might just be the worst American president period.

    BTW, I think Trump is a moron. But compared to Obama he is a fucking genius, and nobody can beat Hillary on the entitled criminal behavior part. That’s your dogma for you.

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  15. Hal_10000 *

    Thank you Alex, for illustrating the point of how Obama Derangement Syndrome has created Trump.  Everything he does is evil. He hates America.  Everything’s awful.  Crooks.  Chicago politics. SJW. I don’t there a square on the ODS bingo card you left untouched.

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  16. CM

    They don’t even seem to care that their argument makes no sense. When it comes to hating Obama, logic (and what the actual discussion is about) apparently doesn’t matter.

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  17. CM

    Comment at Alex’s most recent ODS link (clue: don’t use ODS links to try and prove ODS, doh!):

    “I was interested in using some of this info in an essay I’m writing, but the majority of facts here are proven tosh after double-checking.”

    Facts and double-checking are for losers!

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  18. AlexInCT

    Thank you Alex, for illustrating the point of how Obama Derangement Syndrome has created Trump.  Everything he does is evil. He hates America.  Everything’s awful.  Crooks.  Chicago politics. SJW. I don’t there a square on the ODS bingo card you left untouched.

    Coming from you Hal, a pretend non-liberal, I find this to be a compliment. The only difference between you and CM seems to be that he doesn’t feel obligated to pretend he isn’t a liberal idiot like you do.

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  19. CM

    This really is basic stuff. Nobody has to be any sort of liberal to call you out on your obvious nonsense, they just need to not be able to think for themselves and not believe ODS sources without question. That last link seems to be written by an eleven year old, and all the supposed ‘facts’ are well out of date and aren’t actually facts at all. Not to mention they ignore the GFC which significantly skew most of them. Not to mention that it still makes no sense that they led to the rise in popularity of Trump, even if they were remotely true. You are Rich are like walking, talking ODS parodies.

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  20. CM

    Arrrgh. That should have been “they just need to be able to think for themselves …” and “You and Rich”

    Borrowing the wife’s old tablet while mine gets fixed and her keyboard is driving me nuts.

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  21. Nobody

    Do you ever attempt to look at things objectively…..?

    Let me see if I’ve got the race relations theory correct……

    Also, I suspect blacks would argue that ‘race relations’ were worse when they were swinging in trees, or kept in slavery.

    Wow, you really are a condescending cunt, aren’t you?

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  22. richtaylor365

    As lazy people as apt to do, the usage of derangement syndrome has been misused to be the point of irrelevance. Much like the left throws around “racist” when getting their asses handed to them in an argument, the usual suspects here can’t reconcile the friggin obvious, that legitimate criticism is NOT ODS. They have abused the privilege and should never ever use (misuse) it again.

    I think we should replace it with Infatuation Syndrome, or Cock Munching Syndrome for those with baser proclivities. Obama doubles the national debt ,”Oh, he is sooo dreamy”, Obama resides over the worst economy since the great depression, “He is so eloquent, my leg is all dingly”, more people is poverty/public assistance ,”Releasing all the terrorists and closing Gitmo is consistent with our values”, shrinking American influence through out the world ,”His smart diplomacy has made “hugging is out” in vogue”. Now matter how bad he shits the bed, you can always put a happy face on it, have at it, you guys.

    Wow, you really are a condescending cunt, aren’t you?

    Well, he certainly is the most obtuse individual I have ever run across. I gave up on him long ago.

     

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  23. Hal_10000 *

    Again, illustrating the point, Rich:

    Obama doubles the national debt

    Obama inherited a trillion dollar deficit and a crashing economy. Did you support giant tax hikes back then?  Or gutting Medicare, Social Security or military spending?  Because that’s the only way the deficit was going to get under a trillion in 2009 instead of 2013.

    Obama resides over the worst economy since the great depression

    No one’s going to mistake this for the Reagan economy, but this isn’t close to true. Maybe worst economy since, uh, Bush. No inflation, low unemployment, 74 straight months of job growth is way better than the economic records of Bush II, Carter, Ford or Nixon.

    (Cue tinfoil hat theories about how the economic numbers are fake.)

    more people is poverty/public assistance

    Only if you classify Medicare as public assistance. Poverty rate is below when Obama took office.  More people are on food stamps, mainly because of changes … wait for it … Bush made to the program while he was in office.

    This is exactly what I’m talking about.  Obama has not been a good President. And what little success he has had has been mostly because of a Republican Congress. But what you guys do is pin EVERYTHING on him.  The country was not magically healed of the biggest economic crisis in history on January 20, 2009 and therefore everything since that moment is his fault.  He did not take a $1.5 trillion deficit to zero instantly. He did not instantly create jobs in an economy that was shedding a million a month. He did not instantly undo the eight years of fiscal and statutory damage that Bush had done. It’s precisely this sort of hysterical fact-free proclaiming of disaster that created the path for Trump.

    Historical aside: in 1982, we had one of the worst economic contractions in US history. But it was not Reagan’s fault. It was because we finally stopped the Fed from printing money and had to endure a hangover from a 20-year long inflation.  You would never blame Reagan for the mess Carter created and yet you retroactively blame Obama for everything Bush created.  Bush’s 1.5 trillion deficit? Obama’s fault.  Bush’s economic collapse?  Obama’s fault.  Bush’s expansion of food stamps?  Obama’s fault.  I’m surprised you’re not blaming him for 9/11.

    It’s not enough for Obama to be a lousy President. He has to be the worst thing in the history of the solar system. And anyone who says otherwise is clearly infatuated with Obama or munching his cock.  It’s pathetic.

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  24. Hal_10000 *

    This is one of the biggest reasons my blogging output is down so much. I love debating ideas and policy. But I find myself more often than not debating reality.

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  25. richtaylor365

    But I find myself more often than not debating reality

    Yeah, you aren’t very good at 3rd grade math either;

    The national debt was at $10.6 trillion when Obama took over, it is now at $19.3 Trillion (he still has several months to go, $20 trillion projected). What part of “doubling the national debt” was untrue?

    but this isn’t close to true

    Yes, it is;

    Since the recession ended in June 2009, the economy has advanced at a 2.2% annual pace through the end of last year. That’s more than a half-percentage point worse than the next-weakest expansion of the past 70 years, the one from 2001 through 2007. While there have been highs and lows in individual quarters, overall the economy has failed to break out of its roughly 2% pattern for six years.

    Want more?

    Over the first five years of Obama’s presidency, the U.S. economy grew more slowly than during any five-year period since just after the end of World War II, averaging less than 1.3 percent per year. If we leave out the sharp recession of 1945-46 following World War II, Obama looks even worse, ranking dead last among all presidents since 1932. No other president since the Great Depression has presided over such a steadily poor rate of economic growth during his first five years in office. This slow growth should not be a surprise in light of the policies this administration has pursued.

     Poverty rate is below when Obama took office

    Google poverty rates by year and you will see for yourself that it is now (and has been every year of his presidency) that you are wrong.

     But what you guys do is pin EVERYTHING on him

    What gets pinned on him is the stuff that he takes credit for, blame him for being so ego maniacal that he thinks he has a hand in everything.

     I’m surprised you’re not blaming him for 9/11.

    yyyeeaahh!!! More of that “reality” you claim to live by?

    He has to be the worst thing in the history of the solar system. And anyone who says otherwise is clearly infatuated with Obama or munching his cock. 

    Not what I said, but my money was on you getting it wrong anyway. You can believe that he is not the worst president in the history of the universe (the “worst” is always subjective anyway), what makes you a card carrying member of the OIS crowd is taking obviously bad numbers from The Commerce Dept. The CBO, Treasury, etc, and spinning it to absurdity with a ,”Hey, check out those stellar numbers, isn’t Obama awesome?’.

    This is one of the biggest reasons my blogging output is down so much

    Yep, I know the feeling.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  26. Hal_10000 *

    See, Rich, you’re cherry-picking numbers again.

    The national debt was at $10.6 trillion when Obama took over, it is now at $19.3 Trillion (he still has several months to go, $20 trillion projected). What part of “doubling the national debt” was untrue?

    All of it.  When Obama passed his first budget, the debt was already $11.9 trillion (remember — FY 2009 was a Bush budget) and we were running $1.5 trillion deficit.  Did you miss the part where Obama started in a giant hole?  WHAT WAS OBAMA GOING TO DO?! You NEVER have answer to that. Never. The house was blazing inferno when Obama moved in.  Was he going to raise taxes by astronomical amounts? Gut social security, Medicare and the military?  The deficit doesn’t reset to zero once a new President takes over. Again … what was he going to do to avoid piling on more debt?

    Your link on the economy is extremely cherry-picked and flat-out wrong.  The reason many previous expansions average more than 2% was because they tended to be shorter can followed by recessions.  We are currently in the fourth longest expansion, just behind the 90’s expansion which averaged … 2.1%.  And ahead of the Bush expansion which average … 1.4%.  Here is the NBER’s data.  Oh, but I guess they’re part of the conspiracy now.  Meanwhile, unemployment is at 5%.

    Your second link is even worse. He’s including recession data (second quarter of 2009) and it based heavily around 2014 Q1.  You may remember that was the year we had an insane number of blizzards.  Overall, the year grew at 2.4%.

    Google poverty rates by year and you will see for yourself that it is now (and has been every year of his presidency) that you are wrong.

    Poverty rate when Obama came into office: 14.3% and rising like a rocket.  Crested at 15.1%  Poverty rate in 2015 down to 14.5%.  2016 likely to come in below that.

    what makes you a card carrying member of the OIS crowd is taking obviously bad numbers from The Commerce Dept. The CBO, Treasury, etc, and spinning it to absurdity with a ,”Hey, check out those stellar numbers, isn’t Obama awesome?’.

    I haven’t said he’s awesome.  Can you read? Let me spell it out.

    OBAMA.

    HAS

    BEEN

    A

    LOUSY

    PRESIDENT

    All I have said is that Obama came into the worst economic situation since the Great Depression and, thanks mostly to a Republican Congress, things have gotten better. Not as a good as they could be.  Not as good as they were under Reagan or Clinton. But certainly not as bad I expected.  The permanent unemployment never came.  The permanent trillion dollar deficit disappeared (although they’ll come back without entitlement reform).  The predicted runaway inflation never happened. If we were in the eighth year of President Romney or President McCain and had the exact same circumstances, you would be singing a different tune. And you wouldn’t be spinning elaborate fantasies about how the CBO and Treasury Department can’t be trusted (and then using their numbers anyway when it supports your POV).

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  27. CM

    Did you miss the part where Obama started in a giant hole?

    That has well and truly gone down the memory hole. A lot of these ‘stats’ rely on that giant memory hole.

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  28. CM

    legitimate criticism is NOT ODS

    Of it isn’t. Just as legitimate criticism of Bush wasn’t BDS. Well done. So now try applying legitimate criticism, instead of the horseshit you and Alex continue to try and peddle. As Hal notes, there’s plenty of it available. But one of the key features of suffering ODS is that you JUST CAN’T HELP YOURSELF. This discussion keeps emphasising this again and again.

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  29. richtaylor365

     WHAT WAS OBAMA GOING TO DO?

    There it is, the get out a jail free card that never gets old, like Obama was the only president in the history of the universe to ever inherit a recession. 8 years later and we still can’t get past ,”It’s Bush’s fault”, so mind numbingly predictable.

    This, with your phony bologna unemployment numbers betrays your faux protestations. Tell me, does your OIS club have like a secret hand shake, some perks? (Show your OIS membership card at Starbucks for a free espresso shot, or maybe 20% off all BLM merchandise?)

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  30. CM

    There it is, the get out a jail free card that never gets old, like Obama was the only president in the history of the universe to ever inherit a recession. 8 years later and we still can’t get past ,”It’s Bush’s fault”, so mind numbingly predictable.

    Yet again, that makes NO SENSE.

    McCain’s economic advisors were giving him the same advice on what to do during the campaign.
    It doesn’t matter who the President was prior to Obama, including whether he was a Republican named Bush, a Democratic named Debt McTaxes, or a Reptilian Spidermonkey Hybrid called FuckSausage O’Shotgun.
    An accurate comparison would need to differentiate between a regular cyclical recession and a systemic financial crisis, as noted above.
    How does any of this mean that Trump was created by Obama (who now has an approval rating of 53%).

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

    This, with your phony bologna unemployment numbers betrays your faux protestations. 

    Again, spoken like a true sufferer. You can’t explain why he’s wrong, he’s JUST WRONG BECAUSE OOOOOOOOBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAA!

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  31. richtaylor365

    he’s JUST WRONG BECAUSE OOOOOOOOBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAA!

    You know they are losing the argument when they resort to all caps, it’s like their nonsense will somehow line up if they just yell louder, well done.

    You can’t explain why he’s wrong

    So I have to do his homework as well? Figures, look to the U-6 numbers, there, now work it out on your own.

     

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  32. richtaylor365

     It’s also amazing how all the ODS sources are from 2012 or earlier.

    What is amazing is that, yet again, you are wrong, I could set my watch by your cluelessness.

    My very first WSJ link was dated March 2016, then I presented the Whittle video dated May 2016. And my Gateway Pundit link was dated July 2015. Can you get anything right?

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  33. CM

    You know they are losing the argument when they resort to all caps, it’s like their nonsense will somehow line up if they just yell louder, well done.

    Who are you talking to?

    Actually you lost it a long time before that, and badly. All you seem to have access to is partisan-based nonsense that is easily shown as such. But sure, in mocking you I used all-caps. Good one.

    So I have to do his homework as well? Figures, look to the U-6 numbers, there, now work it out on your own.

    You know you’re losing the argument when you rely on ‘you work it’ and ignore all other points. You can’t even do your own work without lazily relying on out-of-date partisan cherry-picked sources.

    But sure we’ll look at the U6 numbers. Here is they are charted:

    http://www.macrotrends.net/1377/u6-unemployment-rate

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  34. CM

    I’ll re-phrase to make myself clearer: It’s also amazing how all these recent ODS sources showing how economically bad Obama is are from 2012 or earlier.

    That Whittle video was hilarious. As Hal argues, that’s the kind of shit that leads to Trump.

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  35. richtaylor365

    But sure we’ll look at the U6 numbers. Here is they are charted:

    Thus proving my point that Hal’s bullshit numbers were indeed bullshit, thanks for the help. as if I really needed it.

    I’ll re-phrase to make myself clearer: It’s also amazing how all these recent ODS sources showing how economically bad Obama is are from 2012 or earlier.

    Ah, parsing your goobilly gook while back peddling and you stepping on your crank. But you did it again, my “recent” post lists 2 links, the WSJ link dated July 2015 and the DC link dated August 2014.

    I know what it is, your dyslexia kicked in and you meant to write “2012 or later“, yeah, that’s it.

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  36. Hal_10000 *

    There it is, the get out a jail free card that never gets old, like Obama was the only president in the history of the universe to ever inherit a recession. 8 years later and we still can’t get past ,”It’s Bush’s fault”, so mind numbingly predictable.

    My question was specifically about the deficit and you know it.  It’s the one question you guys never have an answer for. What would you have done differently with the budget to avoid racking up so much debt? Raise taxes? Cut Medicare?  What?

    As for the recession, to compare it to the mild recession Bush inherited is insane. This was the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.  And the Obama economy has had higher growth than the Bush economy. Even the mess Reagan inherited wasn’t as bad.

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  37. CM

    Thus proving my point that Hal’s bullshit numbers were indeed bullshit, thanks for the help. as if I really needed it.

    You really do need it, you’re failing miserably, as a result of your chronic ODS. Nobody has claimed the U6 number is at 5%, or anything of the sort. It doesn’t prove you right about anything. The chart shows U6 numbers dropping steeply since mid-2011. And how does that lead to Trump?

    Ah, parsing your goobilly gook while back peddling and you stepping on your crank. 

    Ah no, re-phrasing so that it reads how I meant what I intended. It makes little sense that a piece arguing about the rise of Trump is from 2012. But continue being obtuse, you massive hypocrite. And trying to distract from your chronic ODS. And hilarious comment about race-relations.

    It’s the one question you guys never have an answer for. 

    Having ODS means never having to deal with that.

    to compare it to the mild recession Bush inherited is insane

    But you can if you have ODS. You don’t need to worry about logic or rationality. And if you mix in a load of personal abuse and an obsession with cock-sucking, then you’re sweet.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-05-02/measuring-president-obama-s-economic-performance

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2014/09/05/obama-outperforms-reagan-on-jobs-growth-and-investing/#2c859b5420bc

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  38. richtaylor365

    . It makes little sense that a piece arguing about the rise of Trump is from 2012. 

    Exactamundo, it would make little sense, if that is what happened, but it didn’t, as I have proven in my last 3 comments, all my stuff was AFTER 2012. Yet again proving to the audience here what a lying troll you are. You got caught making a big mistake, my dyslexia remark makes even more sense. Exposed yet again that you can’t debate honestly, can’t even admit your screw up, poor fellow that you are.

     

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  39. AlexInCT

    Obama inherited a trillion dollar deficit and a crashing economy. Did you support giant tax hikes back then?

    First off, that crashing economy was caused by a combination of policies Obama’s party put in place to force lenders to give out money for homes to unqualified people, a shameless attempt to stop anyone from making changes to the impending doom said policies spelled, and a calculated effort by the Pelosi run congress to crash the economy so they could elect a fucking democrat in 2008. And what’s your point about the only answer to massive deficit being tax hikes? They couldn’t cut the bloated social spending instead? I recall Obama pissing away a trillion dollars on pet projects that basically amounted to a giant wealth transfer from the productive tax payers of this country to democrat operatives, lobbyists, connected friends, and their own campaign coffers, but to you all this shit was “inherited”.  And you and that cunt CM accuse me of having the problem with reality. Heh!

     Or gutting Medicare, Social Security or military spending?  Because that’s the only way the deficit was going to get under a trillion in 2009 instead of 2013.

    I would have loved it if he had gutted the social bloated system and the insane social spending. Instead, he doubled down on things that would cripple the economy for the long term (the same shit FDR did after then crash back in the 1920s, with the same results) because with him and his party it is always about the vote buying. That trillion dollar porkulus package and the followup Obamacare push were devastating economic and spending blows to the country. He also presided over a change that basically emasculated the social restraint that was forced on the Clinton administration by his congress in the 90s. And Social Security and Medicare are doomed anyway because the vote buyers will never allow the reform needed to fix them.

    No one’s going to mistake this for the Reagan economy, but this isn’t close to true.

    And yet, here you are defending this shit and acting like it was OK to double the debt mostly with special projects that grew the nanny state and the dependents to it, while funneling money to connected people at a record level, and gutting the middle class. And you do this because to you that great leader Obama meant well. Fucking priceless.

    Maybe worst economy since, uh, Bush. No inflation, low unemployment, 74 straight months of job growth is way better than the economic records of Bush II, Carter, Ford or Nixon.

    Oh, man you are awesome with the democrat talking points Hal. There was a reason Reid stopped congress from producing annual budgets, but I am sure you forget that too. I hate that you are forcing me to defend this shithead Boosh, yet again, but I wrote extensively about the lies about how Boosh did harm to the economy. I even posted the graph that clearly showed that despite Boosh being a quasi-liberal nanny stater (Medicare part D anyone), the economy under him was heading in the right direction until the Pelosi congress torpedoed it (all to win a fucking election). Do a search on “Obama economy” right here at this site, and you will find countless articles, probably all posted by me since you don’t want to tell the truth, showing how fucked up the economy is. And then in the comments it is you and CM peddling bullshit just like you did here.

    (Cue tinfoil hat theories about how the economic numbers are fake.)

    Seriously, for someone with a supposed higher level of education, you sure are a pedantic fool dude. How you come by the numbers matter, and I suspect you damn well know that but are hoping others don’t call you on carrying water for the Obama team.

    That low unemployment number is there because so many people are off the rolls or doing part time work since there are no full time jobs. True unemployment, if you look at employment participation numbers, is at a staggeringly high level. And I clearly remember the media telling us during the fucking Boosh days that a 4.3% unemployment number was a terrible economic indicator, because of all things that the social net we had was not as lavish as the left wanted it to be.

    Every economic indicator has been a lie. The CBO was forced to tell lies about practically everything these people did, including the effect of Obamacare, by a bunch of crooks that after promising transparency, produced the most corrupt and opaque government ever. There is a reason Obama is compared to Carter on the economic malaise his administration has produced. Google it.

    Only if you classify Medicare as public assistance. Poverty rate is below when Obama took office.  

    Oh, priceless. Medicare IS a fucking public assistance program, and with Obamacare it has only grown in cope.

    More people are on food stamps, mainly because of changes … wait for it … Bush made to the program while he was in office.

    Actually I want a link to that assertion, as I recall it, Pelosi’s congress did that, and Obama signed it.

    This is exactly what I’m talking about.  Obama has not been a good President. And what little success he has had has been mostly because of a Republican Congress.

    I call bullshit on both. Obama has been horrible. Worse than Carter economically and on foreign policy. That is not just me, that is economists that are not leftist hacks like Krugabe, in general, making that conclusions. If it was not for the success of the fracking industry, despite this administration’s best efforts to shut them down and funnel cash to their green buddies in the abysmally failed green industries, OPEC, which has been trying to destroy the competing fracking industry by lowering artificially high prices to where they should be, would have maintained the high energy prices which would have crippled our economy even worse than things are now. Lucky for us OPAC has not just failed, but prices now will stay low for at least the next 2 or so years due to the glut out there.

    And Obama has made Boosh look like a decent man with his warmongering and unsanctioned drone killings. That we no longer have communist cunts protesting war on the streets because Obama is team blue doesn’t change that fact. The Middle East is on fire so people connected to Obama and Clinton could profit. They have lied about the horrible deal made with Iran as well. And yet, to the marxists Boosh is the one that needs to be dragged into an international court for defying their will. The left would have no standard if it was not for a double standard.

    And the republican congress has sucked ass as well. In fact, like the spineless cunts dying for positive attention from the DNC controlled press that they are, they aided and abetted this corrupt administration in the hopes of getting media kudos. Fucking idiots the lot of them. We have Trump today because they didn’t do what they promised when they were elected.

    Please, you and CM need a reality check (not that I hope it will ever happen because religious fanaticism is incurable). In CM’s case it is obvious why he will go to any length to defend the indefensible, but you keep doing your best to force me to conclude that you have the exact same problem.

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  40. AlexInCT

    Exactamundo, it would make little sense, if that is what happened, but it didn’t, as I have proven in my last 3 comments, all my stuff was AFTER 2012. Yet again proving to the audience here what a lying troll you are

    That is his goal I suspect Rich, because he can’t do without the lying, goal post moving, and obfuscation. I used to think you could have a discussion with this turd, but experience has shown me that it was not just a waste of time, but counter productive. I am the target of his special delusional mind’s attention because I constantly call him on his crap. He remains immune to any facts, logic, or reasoning. With Hal going his way I am worried this crap might be contagious or something.

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  41. CM

    Exactamundo, it would make little sense, if that is what happened

    Right, which is my point – I wasn’t referring to that.

    You got caught making a big mistake

    Hardly, it was very clearly a side-note, which you’re now leaping all over even though it’s a minor point to your (and Alex’s) ongoing ODS issues, as exposed again in this discussion. Fact is, Alex put up a link which claimed ‘facts’ but they’re all wrong mainly because it’s so out of date. Standard operating procedure though.

    You could always further distract my reminding us again of how much you disapprove of how Michelle Obama ran her own private birthday party. That’s always a good insight into your ODS.

    First off, that crashing economy was caused by…

    How is that relevant to that fact that Obama inherited it, and had to deal with it (and McCain’s advisors were advocating doing the same thing)?

    a calculated effort by the Pelosi run congress to crash the economy so they could elect a fucking democrat in 2008

    Conspiracy theory?

    They couldn’t cut the bloated social spending instead? 

    Not in the midst of an economic meltdown no.

    And you and that cunt CM accuse me of having the problem with reality. 

    I’m not sure you’d recognise it if it knocked on your door and said “hey Alex, it’s a been a while, remember me?”.

    That trillion dollar porkulus package and the followup Obamacare push were devastating economic and spending blows to the country. 

    Narrative, not fact.

     He also presided over a change that basically emasculated the social restraint that was forced on the Clinton administration by his congress in the 90s. 

    How so? Obviously you can’t include additional welfare payments which people qualified for because they qualified under existing thresholds. Or temporary changes designed to see how the worst of the crisis. If you do include those, then that’s dishonest, and symptomatic of ODS.

    here you are defending this shit 

    Actually we’re both attacking the steaming piles of shit coming from both you and Rich. Markedly different. Part of ODS is not being able to tell the difference.

    but I wrote extensively about the lies about how Boosh did harm to the economy

    And how did that cock feel in your mouth?

    the economy under him was heading in the right direction 

    How could it have been, when consumer spending (a major factor in the economy) was substantially propped up by an unsustainable mountain of debt?

    And then in the comments it is you and CM peddling bullshit just like you did here.

    You mean reality, rather than ODS sourced from ODS sites, some of which appear to have been written by 11 year olds. Alex why are you relying on links that are from 2012 which are now clearly out of date?

    supposed higher level of education

    There we go Hal, your qualifications might not even be real. Are you just bullshitting us and yourself with your level of education? LOL

    How you come by the numbers matter,

    Says the guy peddling numbers from 2012, and which don’t even mention the GFC and the fact that the 2008 (or 2009) to 2012 are going to be largely dictated by that event.

    That low unemployment number is there because so many people are off the rolls or doing part time work since there are no full time jobs.

    Are you referring to the U6 numbers? If so, they are now at 9.7%. They were at that level of higher from Nov 2002 right through until May 2004, under Bush. They were also at or lower for 2 years in the mid 1990’s (might be an even longer period, the graph I linked to earlier only goes back to Jan 1994).

    Every economic indicator has been a lie. 

    Riiiiiiiiight. Unless it shows what you want it to show.

    The CBO was forced to tell lies

    Evidence?

    Actually I want a link to that assertion

    Brilliant. Why don’t you provide a link to all of yours? Or half? Or 10% of them? Or 1% of them? And one that hasn’t been written by an 11 year old, and is current enough to be relevant.

    We have Trump today because they didn’t do what they promised when they were elected.

    Rich would disagree. It’s Obama’s fault.

    That is his goal I suspect Rich, because he can’t do without the lying, goal post moving, and obfuscation.

    As I just reiterated above, your ‘evidence’ link is well out of date Alex. Why use a source that is so clearly useless?

    I constantly call him on his crap

    Is that what you think it is? Superb. You keep trying but I can’t recall a time when you actually did it.

    He remains immune to any facts, logic, or reasoning. 

    Yep, well that’s what someone with ODS would say.

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  42. richtaylor365

    Oh,  I get it, make a sweeping bullshit statement like ,”It’s also amazing how all the ODS sources are from 2012 or earlier”, 

    And when I call you on it with example after example after example of sources that I provided post 2012 your latest (all the others failed miserably) excuse was ,”Well what I really meant was that out of all those links provided, I was referring to one single solitary link Alex provided”. Weasel much?

    Rich would disagree. It’s Obama’s fault.

    No I wouldn’t, but thanks for telling me what I think and reaffirming that you and the English language are total strangers.

    I provided an opinion piece that linked the rise of Trump to certain perceived deficiencies of the current guy. As with all thing politics, the sources of  trends and infatuations are not monolithic. Alex is right that a certain segment (not  all) of Trump supporters are fed up with the GOPe and want them either marginalized or eliminated. But  nice misdirection to add the word “fault”, I would expect nothing less from you.

     

     

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  43. Hal_10000 *

    First off, that crashing economy was caused by a combination of policies Obama’s party put in place to force lenders to give out money for homes to unqualified people, a shameless attempt to stop anyone from making changes to the impending doom said policies spelled, and a calculated effort by the Pelosi run congress to crash the economy so they could elect a fucking democrat in 2008.

    Really? It was Democrats who invented credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations? It was Democrats who had the real estate market to the point where PRIME mortgages given to wealthy people were bad?  It was Democrats who did this while REPUBLICANS controlled the White House and both houses of Congress? Tin foil hats will block those Democrat mind control rays.

    I would have loved it if he had gutted the social bloated system and the insane social spending. 

    So at least you’ll admit that we would have had to gut Medicare and Social Security.

    Actually I want a link to that assertion, as I recall it, Pelosi’s congress did that, and Obama signed it.

    Alex, do you ever get tired of just making shit up? Here you go. The changes that made food stamp spending explode happened in 2002. That was when bush was President, if you’re not keeping up. Food stamp spending doubled under Bush when we supposedly had this awesome economy. It doubled again under Obama because we were in damned depression and the program is set up — and was expanded under Bush — to automatically expand when we are in a depression.

    And yet, here you are defending this shit and acting like it was OK to double the debt mostly with special projects

    You misspelled “doubling the debt with winding down Bush’s war’s, maintaing his tax cuts and no reforming entitlements”.  You said Obama threw a trillion at special interests.  That’s actually three times what we spent on stimulus, but we’ll go with. Where did the other nine trillion in debt come from?  Low taxes, wars, entitlements.  Discretionary spending has not grown.  Spending has been flat.  Spending has grown slower under Obama than under any President since Truman.  These are facts, Alex.  They don’t go away because the D after someone’s name drives you to frothing rage.

    How you come by the numbers matter,

    Yes. You should use actual numbers not “shit I made up because I don’t like Obama”.

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  44. CM

    Oh,  I get it, make a sweeping bullshit statement like ,”It’s also amazing how all the ODS sources are from 2012 or earlier”, 

    Distract, distract, distract. My point was that Alex and you both used sources that aren’t current to argue about the economy under Obama, because clearly up-to-date sources are going to paint a different picture and one that doesn’t suit you. Rail hard against the wording I used all you like, and ignore the point, but that’s the truth.

    thanks for telling me what I think

    You’re welcome.

    I provided an opinion piece that linked the rise of Trump to certain perceived deficiencies of the current guy. As with all thing politics, the sources of  trends and infatuations are not monolithic. Alex is right that a certain segment (not  all) of Trump supporters are fed up with the GOPe and want them either marginalized or eliminated. But  nice misdirection to add the word “fault”, I would expect nothing less from you.

    Nice try, but you endorsed it with your comments directly before and after it (particularly with your conclusion that it’s “Yeah, it is about as simple as that.”) Now you’re saying it ISN’T that simple after all? Weasel much?

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  45. richtaylor365

    Distract, distract, distract. 

    Lie, Lie, Lie, that is what you are good at. Face it, what you said was wrong, you can add 30 more comments trying to parse it, but you got nailed. My sources were up to date, mostly 2015 and 2016 sources, so your bullshit statement about 2012 or earlier was flat out CM  cringe worthy wrong, ouch.

    “Yeah, it is about as simple as that.”

    The connection between the two (one of many factors that contributed to his rise) was as simple as that. Obama is viewed by some as weak, ambiguous, an enabler to our enemies and not skilled in job creation, Trump (either rightly or wrongly) is.  You keep missing, come on, one ground ball is all we ask.

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  46. AlexInCT

    Really? It was Democrats who invented credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations?

    In fact, yes. Chris Dodd, esteemed senator from my state, was behind the law that allowed that. He did that because it was the only way government could coerce banks to play Russian roulette with a gun that had 5 chambers out of 6 loaded. Read up on it.

    It was Democrats who had the real estate market to the point where PRIME mortgages given to wealthy people were bad?

    That too was Dodd. BTW, who recently told lenders to circumvent the last set of laws Dodd created with another bottom-feeding cunt from Massachusetts right before Dodd quit because he knew he would be killed if he rand for reelection? I posted about it here. I am sure when that goes wrong you will try to pretend it was those dirty bankers that did this one as well.

    BTW, look up which high level politician tried to stand up to Dodd and Frank only to be accused of being a racist for pointing out what they had the banks and Fannie & Freddie doing would eventually blow up.

    It was Democrats who did this while REPUBLICANS controlled the White House and both houses of Congress?

    I could point out that this was back when even the insinuation that you were a racist or motivated because of one of the other “isms” in their quiver of arrows allowed democrats to kill any discussions, but I am quite sure you damned well know this but continue to dig this hole you are in because you simply can’t let go of Obama’s cock.

    Tin foil hats will block those Democrat mind control rays.

    Well, with that kind of logical argument and facts on your side I guess I am done for. This stuff was well documented for those that wanted to know it, but I am not surprised you are quite content sticking to the lies and donkey talking points used to not only lay the blame elsewhere, but to then allow them to cover it up and compound the trouble so we can have another replay.

    You sure told me, man! (That’s sarcasm if you don’t get it).

    So at least you’ll admit that we would have had to gut Medicare and Social Security.

    I am not sure I get where you are going with this. I wanted them gutted since I became politically aware in the Carter years, and have been pissed every time they have done exactly the opposite. My biggest beef with the Booshes was that they were nanny staters, and I even faulted Reagan for letting Tip O’Neal lard all that pork so he could rebuild the US military strength, and I have been quite vocal about it, but it now looks like you are trying to make the argument that I am only saying it now?

    YES! I want the federal government, especially the bloated social state to be gutted. Help the people that can’t help themselves because the can’t work. Those that can work but don’t will figure out very fast that they will have to work instead of vote for a living. It will also make the economy grow for a change, but it will kill all the graft that keep politicians, but especially democrat politicians in power and in the money.

    The changes that made food stamp spending explode happened in 2002. That was when bush was President, if you’re not keeping up. Food stamp spending doubled under Bush when we supposedly had this awesome economy. It doubled again under Obama because we were in damned depression and the program is set up — and was expanded under Bush — to automatically expand when we are in a depression.

    WTF is your point? You doing the CM deflect from the real issue by focusing on insignificant minutia that confound the argument? How the fuck does this disprove the point I made that Obama’s policies kept the economy democrats wrecked to win an election fucked up, and that we have the lowest employment participation, the largest amount of people on the dole? BTW, food stamps is such a small fragment of the bloated socialist budget that it doesn’t even get shown when you break it down. In fact the US spends way more than the other collectivists that like to look down on us do. If we want to roll back the vote buying, there are some far better places to begin with than the food stamps program. We could start with Medicare, which has been growing and will continue to grow at alarming rates because of Obamacare, a subject I see you have avoided. There is no way free healthcare doesn’t end up swallowing up more and more of the money they collect.

    Where did the other nine trillion in debt come from?  Low taxes, wars, entitlements.  Discretionary spending has not grown.  Spending has been flat. 

    Ah I see. You buy the accounting games that claim spending is flat or has gone down because the money burners in congress opted to keep spending at or below the built in growth rate. I remind you again, that Reid stopped producing budgets because they did their spending off the books. I will be totally unsurprised to find out that Obama tacked on twice as much (or even more) as we currently believe he has.

    Anyway your argument breaks down because you assume there was no alternative. And yet there was: spend less.  The problem never is that they tax us too little, but that they spend too much. Period. No conservative or Libertarian would have a problem with that logic.

    Spending has grown slower under Obama than under any President since Truman.  These are facts, Alex.  They don’t go away because the D after someone’s name drives you to frothing rage.

    Another cherry picked statistic. You seem to forget whom you are arguing with here dude. You better take a look at this article. The most insignificant fact, the one you just claimed, can’t hide how bad things are. Your argument amounts to saying that if you ignore the numbers and look at some percentages, then suddenly Obama isn’t that bad. The truth is that we will be over $20 trillion in debt – and probably far more than that if we could really get a feel for how much money was really pissed away – with another $100 trillion in obligations they could never repay, especially with the destruction they have wreaked on our economy. There is no way that this can be fixed. We lost that chance when we gave Obama a second term. Bernie will wreck it the fastest. Hillary will do it a little slower, but not by much more. Even if Trump went bonkers, I doubt he can pull an Obama, Clinton, or Sanders though. But I am under no illusion he can fix things. The world is heading for some real ugly times, Obama set the stage to make sure that would come to pass. Unlike you, I have no blinders on about that.

    Like I said: keep defending the indefensible. You only make it more obvious whom has the bias here.

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  47. AlexInCT

    Lie, Lie, Lie, that is what you are good at. Face it, what you said was wrong, you can add 30 more comments trying to parse it, but you got nailed. My sources were up to date, mostly 2015 and 2016 sources, so your bullshit statement about 2012 or earlier was flat out CM  cringe worthy wrong, ouch.

    Why do you bother Rich? You really think it will make a difference? He has no concept of shame or ability to question his belief system. He will defend the indefensible, because reflecting on what he believes would be tantamount to suicide for true believers like him.

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  48. CM

    Lie, Lie, Lie, that is what you are good at. Face it, what you said was wrong, you can add 30 more comments trying to parse it, but you got nailed. My sources were up to date, mostly 2015 and 2016 sources, so your bullshit statement about 2012 or earlier was flat out CM  cringe worthy wrong, ouch.

    Again, it speaks volumes that you’re attempting to make a big deal out of nothing – desperate much? A “big mistake”? WTF planet are you living on? And you accuse ME of being obtuse. Genius. My throw-away claim should have been more specific – I’ve already acknowledged that, and clarified the point that I tried (but initially clearly failed) to make?

    In your list (cherry-picked, again) you failed to mention that your Fox News link (the one right before I made the incorrect claim which you’re trying to pretend means you’ve won the internet) WAS from 2012.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/06/recessions-and-presidents-who-inherited-them.html

    Can you explain why that wasn’t in your list, and why you explicitly stated “all my stuff was AFTER 2012″? Both you AND Alex included links about economics from 2012. Which is dishonest given that’s now 2016, which WAS MY POINT.

    I’m good at lying? Please cite some examples to support this bold and lazy claim. I don’t agree. I certainly haven’t lied here. As I said, “Alex and you both used sources that aren’t current to argue about the economy under Obama”. That is 100% true. My initial comment wasn’t accurate, and as soon as you drew my attention to it, I acknowledged that it wasn’t phrased correctly, and in my rush I didn’t correct it properly, but the point is still true even if my wording wasn’t accurate. Or do you not know the difference between getting something wrong, and lying? I imagine that’s a symptom of the syndrome as well. You and Alex sure have a lot of ticks in the symptom column for people claiming not to have it.

    The connection between the two (one of many factors that contributed to his rise) was as simple as that.

    Bahahahahahahaha! Wow, way to make zero sense again Rich. There was nothing in your comments to suggest that you (apparently completely) disagreed that Trump created Obama “single handedly” (your words). There is everything in your paragraph after the quote to strongly suggest that you did agree with it. Which is it? Is this where I go on about parsing and you getting ‘nailed’ etc etc? Guess so. I’ll pass though. It’s all so obvious it doesn’t need silly bullshit to try and make it work.

    You keep missing, come on, one ground ball is all we ask.

    LOL, I don’t think so mate. You’ve failed spectacularly and been exposed over and over again with your claims and statements. I’m not the one asking whether race relation has EVER been worse. If you’re going to be Mr. Obtuse over my throw-away comment, why are you unable to deal with your own? Too busy googling to see when Michelle’s next private party is so you can get all worked up about it?

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  49. CM

    Why do you bother Rich?

    Because a key symptom of ODS is to spread the ODS gospel, and lose your shit when anyway dares to question your garbage. You’d know that well.

    He has no concept of shame or ability to question his belief system.

    Please show me where my ‘belief system’ has been relied upon within my posts here? As opposed to yours, which is about as close to being fact-free and opinion-based as it’s possible to be. Ah, that’s right, I forgot, when it comes down to supporting accusations you never have anything. Never ever. Really you were always going to contract the syndrome, you are predisposed, you never stood a chance. Poor Alex.

    He will defend the indefensible, because reflecting on what he believes would be tantamount to suicide for true believers like him.

    Do you carry that mirror around permanently?What have I said that is ‘indefensible’? As I noted, ODS sufferers are unable to differentiate between illustrating that something is nonsense, and SUCKING OBAMA’S COCK.

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  50. CM

    BTW Alex, I remember being 12 or so and finding it cool to say ‘cunt’. Good times! Enjoy it while you can, it loses it’s charm when you get older.

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  51. richtaylor365

    Why do you bother Rich?

    Mainly because I find it absolutely fascinating the machinations at which he will stoop, the contortions and equivocations, all to deny what he wrote for anyone to see. It’s like the kid getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar. First the kid will question your eye sight, maybe it was his younger brothers hand, not his. Then he will question whether in fact it is a cookie or a biscuit, or ask for clarification on what constitutes a jar from say a canister, finishing up debating the rules about him not helping himself to cookies in the first place. At no point can he ever admit that, yes, that was he who absconded with the cookie. I suspect there are whole chapters in psychology books describing this type of pathology and how it manifests itself in other abnormal behavior.

    Sure, when we finally see his “Come to Jesus” moment, he just can’t help himself, watering it down with “throw away claim” ( news flash, CM, most of your claims are “throw away”), admitting that he should have been more specific, despite 3 other claims earlier that he meant what he said, hilarious.

    In your list (cherry-picked, again) you failed to mention that your Fox News link (the one right before I made the incorrect claim which you’re trying to pretend means you’ve won the internet) WAS from 2012.

    Hey genius, you were talking about Trump and your bastardized definition of ODS, that link had nothing to do with either, it was about past presidents who started their term on the heels of a recession. Another swing and a miss, maybe you should take up gardening.

     

    Or do you not know the difference between getting something wrong, and lying?

    You are correct, I misspoke (see, it’s not that hard). In order to lie you need cognitive awareness that what you are saying is not true. I can’t prove what was in your mind at the time of that bullshit “claim” so I will apologize.

    But Alex is right, this thread has run it’s course. You keep thinking I have ODS and I will stand by my diagnosis of your OIS. That accomplished a lot.

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  52. AlexInCT

    You nailed CM’s discussion tactics there, Rich. He excels at shifting the argument from the main topic to something else so he can then derail the conversation about the real issue. As I pointed out: these people can’t question their beliefs, because it would be akin to heresy, so they will just argue in bad faith.

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  53. CM

    He excels at shifting the argument from the main topic to something else 

    Alex you’ve just described EXACTLY what Rich has done with my single-line post which changes NOTHING about anything else in the thread. Everything you and Rich claim in your two posts above very clearly apply to Rich’s performance here.

    At no point can he ever admit that, yes, that was he who absconded with the cookie.

    You say this even though I clearly acknowledged: My initial comment wasn’t accurate, and as soon as you drew my attention to it, I acknowledged that it wasn’t phrased correctly, and in my rush I didn’t correct it properly…… 

    Again, this is all very clearly an attempt to distract from all the substantive parts that you’ve simply been unable to respond to.

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  54. Hal_10000 *

    So, let me understand if I understand Alex’s Theory of the Financial Crisis. The Democrats, in a fiendish plot to destroy the economy and get elected, conspired with the banks to give loans to poor people, with the financial markets to create insanely complex derivatives, with the ratings agencies to give those derivatives AAA ratings, with the rich to make sure even the top of the market became a bubble. What a party of geniuses!

    Yeah, not taking back that tin foil hat comment.

    ou buy the accounting games that claim spending is flat or has gone down because the money burners in congress opted to keep spending at or below the built in growth rate

    Nope. Wrong. Spending was flat in absolute terms.  Again, we’ve been over this.  I’ve put the numbers right here.  And yet you continue to insist that 3.5 is much much huger than 3.5.  Because Obama.

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  55. richtaylor365

    Hal, considering your difficulties in the past understanding simple terms like “double”, “half”, “less”, and “more”, your confidence that the numbers are on your side is greatly exaggerated. Ditto throwing around pejoratives like ,”tin foil hat”, if you honestly deny the link between the CRA and the housing bubble, the creation of lax lending standards, and the dems in congress that championed the practice using the heavy hand of the IRS to punish those lenders that did not fall in line, then your preference in head gear is clear.

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  56. Hal_10000 *

     if you honestly deny the link between the CRA and the housing bubble, the creation of lax lending standards, and the dems in congress that championed the practice using the heavy hand of the IRS to punish those lenders that did not fall in line, then your preference in head gear is clear.

    I’ve not denied that. I’ve simply made the apparently crazy statement that THAT”S NOT THE WHOLE FUCKING STORY. (And keep in mind; the GOP supported all the crap too. Still support it.)

    Hal, considering your difficulties in the past understanding simple terms like “double”, “half”, “less”, and “more”, your confidence that the numbers are on your side is greatly exaggerated.

    And considering your difficulty with basic math, like understanding that 3.5 is not more than 3.5, I wouldn’t be so quick to judge. The problem is not the math. The problem is that you choose incorrect or completely imaginary numbers to play with. And then you use those numbers to imply things that are simply not true.

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