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Foley Beheaded, Others May Follow

Yesterday, ISIS released a video showing them cutting journalist James Foley’s head off. I have not watched the video nor do I intend to. It is not surprising coming from the barbarians that are slaughtering men, women and children by the tens of thousands in the pursuit of … something vaguely Islamic. They also claim to have Steven Sotloff prisoner and are threatening to execute him if the US does not abandon airstrikes against ISIS targets.

I don’t know that we can stop ISIS and bring democracy to the Middle East. I do know that people who murder Americans can not do so with impunity. Justice needs to be brought on ISIS. We may not be able to save the world from savagery. But we can make sure that visiting that savagery upon Americans comes at a massive price.

19 comments

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  1. Poosh says:

    Vaguely Islamic ?

    You have things upside down. And that’s part of the problem.

    ISIS, Hamas, et al are heavily Islamic. ISIS are correctly following their religion and using their Prophet as an example. What they’re doing on TV is exactly what their Prophet did and what Muslims have been doing since it came into being.

    Do you know how Mohammed died? By most accounts he was looting a town full of Jews, slaughtered the men and boys, and had the women and girls raped etc. He stupidly allowed a Jewish widow to feed him (rocket scientist this guy), and yeah, she poisoned him. A month later he died. That’s their number one Prophet. That’s the “perfect example”.

    It’s the millions of peaceful, decent Muslims who are vaguely Islamic.

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  2. Seattle Outcast says:

    The Romans had methods for dealing with barbarians that were effective….

    Nuke now, don’t apologize later….

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  3. Hal_10000 says:

    Do you know how Mohammed died? By most accounts he was looting a town full of Jews, slaughtered the men and boys, and had the women and girls raped etc. He stupidly allowed a Jewish widow to feed him (rocket scientist this guy), and yeah, she poisoned him. A month later he died. That’s their number one Prophet. That’s the “perfect example”.

    Yes, but by that standard, just about everyone who is religious is vaguely religious. Read what Moses did to tribe of Midian. They slaughtered all the men and took the women and children captive. But that wasn’t good enough for Moses so he ordered the male children killed, the women killed and only the virgin girls kept as sex slaves. Is everyone who doesn’t do that vaguely Jewish? If you tolerate divorce, are you only vaguely Christian?

    Mohammed died 1400 years ago. A lot has happened in Islam since then. A few centuries ago, they were the tolerant ones. The problem is that Wahabism has taken a grip over the Islamic world for the last fifty years (and many think the basis of that is entirely secular — that extreme religion gives rulers more power over the population). These nuts base their views on one interpretation while ignoring everything that has happened in Islam since. Hell, even they can’t live by their own standards. Osama bin Laden married educated women, got his daughters educated and played video games with his sons while telling everyone else they should live ideal Islamic lives of ignorance, misogyny and poverty.

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  4. Hal_10000 says:

    Apparently, we did try to rescue Foley.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/20/world/meast/isis-james-foley/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

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  5. Poosh says:

    Well I have no interest in saying what religious Jews are or are not, and cannot speak of their faith.

    Your claim that a few centuries ago the Islamic empire(s) were the tolerant ones is nonsense and liberal revision of history – something nearly all are subject to, so understandable. Little has happened within Islam, I mean, what exactly are you talking about? There is no Islamic enlightenment. And their golden age was a myth. Spain was not a cultural cultural utopia either, that’s another piece of false history right there. Nothing has changed other than the Christian “secular” powers gaining strength and rejecting their religion.

    Islam has done nothing since, at all. I mean, I simply cannot see anything that was specifically driven by the Islamic religion (I suppose Islam spurred the conquest and destruction of Persia, where Islam retained much of their science … which led to a few hardly-Muslim arabs developing it and recording it. The reason they are ignoring “how far Islam has come” is because it has never gone anywhere. The religion is quite specifically designed to do exactly that, it’s an imperialist ideology. Which is why you have Muslim states in 2014. And “terrorists” who, most of us know, are actually just armies, not “terrorists”.

    The point is that Mohammed is THEIR EXAMPLAR. And he did these things. Why do you think so many Muslims are so hateful of the Jews? Their Prophet died, slaughtering them.

    ISIS can happily justify their actions within their scriptures. Those who claim they are “nuts” or “vague Muslims” have no leg to stand on. These are not quibbles over “divorce” etc. they are fundamental tenants of Islam. In the wake of 9/11 the White House actually confirmed this, though that report was quickly suppressed. This is, of course, problematic, as if you say that out loud you may make liberal Muslims rethink their religion and actually start following it.

    The fate of this poor, decent journalist is legitimate under Islam. And the sooner we work this out the better.

    The only cure, I hate to say, is Atheism.

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  6. Seattle Outcast says:

    What’s wrong with atheism? I mean, aside from not wasting a large portion of your life concerning yourself with the judgement of an insane bronze-age deity…

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  7. Technomad says:

    So they’re killing journalists, are they?

    And the downside is…?

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  8. trade_pro says:

    I went to Catholic school through high school and don’t remember anyone every telling me to be like Moses —that’s why it is called Christian and not Mosesian.

    So a much better comparison is Christ to Mohammad.

    I don’t recall Christ killing anyone or instructing anyone to do so. Unless you look at the Infancy Book of Thomas which is not in the Bible. In that book, Christ, as a child, kills one of his friends. He then brings the friend back to life.

    Not much of a comparison.

    Just another non-practicing Christian with a good amount of education in religions.

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  9. Nexus says:

    “What’s wrong with atheism?”
    Nothing but it’s not a religion.

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  10. Poosh says:

    @trade_pro there is simply no comparison between the teachings of Christianity and Islam. But I think Hal was referring to Judaism and Moses’ place in that religion … thought that being said, note Moses was personally instructed by God to do what were probably evil things (and as Christians, and even Jews, we can argue on the validity of the account seeing as the Bible is not a single unmolested entity, unlike the Koran) – he was not engaging in behavior which is setting an example, or doctrine etc. He was, as far as the story goes, following direct orders from God. Mohammed was engaging in the consequences of the religion he just made up.

    We should also note it’s generally understood that less than the final prophets are not perfect beings. That’s why they’re not no.1.

    _____

    Jesus healed the ear of one of his captors and asked God to forgive the ones who murdered him. The most violent act the Gospels record Jesus engaging in is him/Him throwing a hissy fit in a temple.

    Mohammed died via poison administered to him in revenge for him slaughtering an entire town and looting it (Mohammed executed the widow Jewess obviously). When I heard of this I had to triple check it because it was *that* absurd.

    Does it not occur to people that a religion with THIS GUY as the final ultimate prophet might lead to some quite horrific things.

    Darth Vader literally showed more kindness and morality than Mohammed!

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  11. Seattle Outcast says:

    Mohammed was engaging in the consequences of the religion he just made up.

    All religions are just made up. And most of them are completely lacking in originality.

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  12. AlexInCT says:

    All religions are just made up. And most of them are completely lacking in originality.

    The collectivist religious movement would disagree, but then again, they replaced the all powerful force of good with government, decided it would thus create heaven on aearth, and made the Tea Party or people that point out this new god of the left is more like the dark entities in any relgion, the incarnation of evil.

    Me I worship women. I love them so much that I know I have to be a lesbian trapped in a man’s body.

    And I have always told people the solution to the Islamic radicalism problem is to promise these people we will bury every single one of them in bacon fat, upside down, after we take them out. Instead we are told to empathize with them, and they simply see more heads to saw off then.

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  13. Seattle Outcast says:

    I worship the female form as perfected by Italian supermodels that wear a size 2 and have 3DD anti-gravity tits, but only if they know how to properly present a sandwich & beer while wearing 4″ heels and a smile during halftime.

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  14. Section8 says:

    Yeah I’m not sure we should be calling in the forces just yet, although to some degree it’s already been done. It’s possible we might end up damaging a mosque, or an errant bomb going off, or our actions could cause these misguided folks to blow up some school which would somehow be tied back to us via some clever reporting. We can’t risk the blame. They knew the risks, their buddies in the press can find them and do that good ole civilized negotiating.

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  15. hist_ed says:

    I think it might be time to show the rest of the world that we can, actually, visit massive, indiscriminate destruction upon our enemies. The feel good, take it slow, be nice to the enemy and only shoot them when they are really really mean paradigm is not working. In the long run it is crueler because the war will continue. The Germans knew they were beaten in 1945 because their cities were rubble. We should set a ratio of about 1000 terrorist asswipes for every dead American and then not worry too much if we over shoot by a considerable margin.

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  16. Hal_10000 says:

    Do you know how Mohammed died? By most accounts he was looting a town full of Jews, slaughtered the men and boys, and had the women and girls raped etc. He stupidly allowed a Jewish widow to feed him (rocket scientist this guy), and yeah, she poisoned him. A month later he died. That’s their number one Prophet. That’s the “perfect example”.

    This is incorrect, BTW. You’re referring to the Battle of Khaybar. There was no mass slaughter or rape and the Jews, while forced to pay half their income as tribute, were allowed to practice their religion. A woman did attempt to poison Muhammed. But he died three years later.

    As for there never being an enlightened era of Islam, this is also incorrect. The Wahabbists themselves are trying to erase this view. But the late 1st millenium and early second saw most science being done in Islamic areas, including astronomy and medicine (a significant number of stars have arabic names because of this). One of the greatest Jewish scholars — Moses Maimonides — lived during that era. It was the Christians who would eventually expel or murder all the Jews in Spain, not the Muslims.

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  17. Poosh says:

    No mass slaughter or rape? Depends which sources of course (outside of the Koran, texts vary as we might expect). But I’m not incorrect.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3tTXQQNUuo

    http://www.islam-watch.org/syedkamranmirza/Muhammad-Killing-Jews-of-Banu-Quraiza-and-Khaybar.htm

    But it is true that many who survived were forced to pay the Jizya (i.e pay Muslims money or you DIE … which is what ISIS are doing across Syria and Iraq btw, which is what I’m trying to tell you!!) – I was not accurate and my language implied they were totally slaughtered. But many were. And many women were taken as booty. I appreciate it might be important for certain parties to not record these points of interest in the wiki page. Who authors the pages eh?

    As you can see from some sources Mohammed “himself” (one shouldn’t assume he was a real person I suppose, and not actually a composite character) stated he died from the poison at Khaybar.

    As for your talk of some fabled Islamic golden age, it’s of course garbage: liberal myths and revision. However, that is not to say individual Arabs (ARAB) did wonderful things and contributed greatly to science etc. But this was in spite of Islam, not because of it. One should avoid confusing the religious and political ideology of Islam with Arab individuals (and Persians) who lived within those Empires: extraordinary men.

    The idea of a multicultural paradise in Spain under the various Islamic rulers is, as usual, pathetic liberal revisionist history – bollocks in other words. You are force fed it and I imagine most people think it was so. It wasn’t (of course) though liberals have invested a lot of effort trying to falsify history. On occasion it was, it is true, as multicultural as it is claimed, but that was a kind exception to the rule (guess which examples liberals focus on). I don’t think it’s easy to find this out but the history is out there.

    That isn’t to say Christians weren’t shitty or murderers either, they were… no one denies that. Christians killing Jews!? Someone alert the media….

    The blame on Wahabbism has a lot of truth in it, but also convenient and ignores the fact that a great deal of Islamic evil has little to do with it, from what I can gather at least.

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  18. AlexInCT says:

    I think it might be time to show the rest of the world that we can, actually, visit massive, indiscriminate destruction upon our enemies. The feel good, take it slow, be nice to the enemy and only shoot them when they are really really mean paradigm is not working.

    I have never understood how people believed this shift to fighting “clean kinetic conflicts” would make for less conflict. Yeah, we might not have horror stories of entire cities being leveled by bomb runs done with thousands of aircraft (we don’t even need that many planes these days to level anything of value even in the biggest city) or beach assaults that costs some 20K troops their lives in one day, but instead we have so many “never ending low conflict stories” that spread misery everywhere, and most of them under or never reported on. The new way of doing this shit results in deaths that are spread out and not heard of, but in the end, far surpass the counts done even when carpet bombing cities.

    The new ROE serve only to give the enemy an advantage and guarantee no end to conflict. Why do you think these fuckwads use human shields? The best way to avoid conflict, that is war, is to make sure people understand that once it starts it will be fucking ugly. You will wreck everything you can, kill everyone you can, and make life so miserable for the poor souls that manage to avoid the carnage otherwise, that everybody but the most insane fucks will think twice of provoking you. Making war as horrible as possible will not stop war in general, but it sure as hell will prevent most of them. The objective is to break the enemy’s will to fight, and if they won’t break, to wipe them out so the fighting stops.

    We need to go back to the days where everything was a target. Maybe even pick up a lesson from what the Romans did to Carthage. When the enemy understands extinction is the prize of failure, not the ability to utilize said failure for propaganda in a never ending slow death fest, and an opportunity to try again, I guarantee you less people will take up arms against others. The best solution to enemies that seek to do you harm still remains extinction. Death people have a hard time doing bad shit.

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  19. mrblume says:

    You got to admit that Jesus teachings were pretty fucking sweet, and generally so enlightened it actually might make be want to believe that maybe there is a god.

    But considering that all the nice “turn the other cheek” stuff has done fuck all to affect our behavior in the last 2000 years, and to this very day, I see no reason to believe that the Koran should be fundamentally more effective in making Muslims want to slap people.

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