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It matters all the time you idiots!

I see that even the NYT is forced to admit that not every higher education field of study provides the same earning potential, albeit, the author prefixes this indubitable fact with the excuse that somehow it only matters in times of a recession. That’s bullshit. No, not the admission that degrees ins some fields are worth far more than others , but that this only happens to be the case during a recession.

Let’s be honest: we are not all cut out to be engineers, scientists, doctors, lawyers, accountants, or stock brokers. In fact a little admitted fact is that the vast majority of people are unfit or unprepared for any kind of higher education, despite the fact that so many get encouraged to waste time and money doing it. I have always found it galling that colleges will charge the same for a degree with earning potential as they will charge the vast majority of students that attend and oft pursue what amount to fluff stuff. If it ends with the word “Studies” I assure you that you never will get what you pay for. Even at a community college. Disagree with me if you want, but deep down inside you and I both know that some moron with a head full of these studies mush isn’t likely to find any kind of job outside of academia, government, volunteer work, or some big corporation’s HR department. The majority of them if they can’t find work in academia end up flipping burgers, I bet.

So why do we allow kids to incur tens of thousands of dollars in debt to basically have an experience that amounts to a sever case of liberal indoctrination and hard partying for some of their more formative and supposedly more productive years? It’s like the libs got jealous of watching Biff and Muffy go party on college for a few years, with their rich daddy paying for it, and created a system for everyone to do the same. Only problem is they don’t tell the stupid kids that hock their lives to do this what they are getting into.

I can’t help but drawing a parallel between the whole “You should pursue your dreams and study whatever you want at college” scenario and the belief held by some religions of selling your soul to the devil or his equivalent for some fun. It’s awesome for as long as it lasts, but then there is hell to pay. And I don’t think it far fetched. The left wanted to kill religion’s hold on superstitious man and his belief of reward or punishment in the after life, and replaced that whole structure with a new religion where government was god and the reward could be obtained on earth. Only problem is that as time has passed it looks a lot more like government actually isn’t god, but the devil.

Here is the deal every person looking at college should actually work out: what is my earning potential – realistically – based on what I can study, and how much will that cost me. Going into debt to the tune of several tens of thousands, and often over a hundred thousands, to pursue that degree in any of the “studies”, music, or fin arts majors without understanding your employment potential, or a guarantee of some sort, is a dumb move. There is a big difference between a specialized doctor that stands to rake in a half million dollars a year, with a $400K student debt, and some shmuck with a “French Poetry of the 13th Century” masters with $50K in debt, which will be lucky if they are able to get a job teaching at some $45K a year.

I think the problem is that so many kids lack the basics of economics and capitalism, and have sucked that collectivist nonsense cock so hard they believe the shit the left tells them. The real world, unfortunately for them, ain’t fair. And that’s what we should be teaching our kids. Not giving them participation trophies and telling little snowflake to pursue their dreams. Especially when it is blatantly obvious that their dream is not grounded in any reality and will result in nothing but sadness and pain.

12 comments

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  1. richtaylor365 says:

    I know its de rigueur around here to trash higher education (and Alex, no offense but you are coming off as one of those liberal elitist snobs from the Upper West Side, Beacon Hill, or Nob Hill) but there is more to life than money (I’ll wait for everyone to pick themselves off the floor from laughter).

    Telling people what they should study, telling them that they are not smart enough to make it on their own, telling them that it is OK to run up student debt because the government has their backs, that is garbage right out of the progressive handbook for dummies.

    I have no problem with people pursuing their dreams (how many people do you know that are stuck in a profession they don’t like, how many hate their jobs, do you really wish this on anyone?) as long as they go in with their eyes wide open. What is wrong with someone with an affinity for Charles Dickens or Jane Austen getting a degree in English Lit to one day be a teacher ? Ditto with a music degree, aspiring to one day play at the philharmonic? They offer 4 year degrees in farm management, perfect for the guy that wants to take over the family ranch, kept in the family for 4 generations.

    My wife (a lawyer, a pretty successful one) has told me a hundred times that some of the dumbest people she ever met were lawyers. Fancy degrees does not necessarily translate into intellect or even ability.

    And if you are talking strictly earning power, some plumbers, electricians or construction workers make more than those doctors, lawyers, or engineers you mentioned, and they did not need fancy schamncy college degrees.

    I always thought I had one of the best jobs in the world, everyone should be so lucky. For something that you will spend a third of your life time doing, you better enjoy it.

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  2. richtaylor365 says:

    And speaking of Jane Austen;

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  3. Seattle Outcast says:

    Of course some the biggest idiots are lawyers. After slogging away for 6 years to get a 4-year degree in poli-sci, your only option at that point is to be lawyer if the cash isn’t going to get cut off from the trust fund.

    And being a lawyer isn’t about brilliance, isn’t all about slogging away and putting in the hours, just like any postgraduate degree that isn’t math, sciences or engineering. Case in point, my wife’s cousin – dumb as a fucking rock, but lawyer for all sorts of non-profits dealing with leftist causes. Who did she marry, a former Seattle city council dweeb (also a lawyer) that was marginally more intelligent than she was, but not enough of a leftie to get more that one term on the council despite heavy endorsement from previous mayors (mostly from the one with a boner for underage white boys in his office at night).

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  4. AlexInCT says:

    I know its de rigueur around here to trash higher education (and Alex, no offense but you are coming off as one of those liberal elitist snobs from the Upper West Side, Beacon Hill, or Nob Hill) but there is more to life than money (I’ll wait for everyone to pick themselves off the floor from laughter).

    Rich, I can’t disagree with you more. This is NOT about money. My point is about investment returns. About the illogical shit kids are fed that prevents them from actually looking at higher education as they would any investment. Do you believe if it was an unholy alliance between academia and the private sector (instead of government) that was fucking over these kids the way so many are fucked over by the system, that we would not have a law making this illegal?

    For some reason our government and those that it chooses to back seem immune to the laws that punish anyone else from doing the same. Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Only our government can do it. There are one set of rules for how private sector entities must handle investments, employee retirement money, company money, and practically every thing else. But our governments, federal and local, can do whatever stupid shit they want. Enron is criminal. Detroit is just bad luck, or worse, the will of the people!.

    I have no problem with people pursuing their dreams (how many people do you know that are stuck in a profession they don’t like, how many hate their jobs, do you really wish this on anyone?) as long as they go in with their eyes wide open.

    That’s precisely my point. These kids are being fed a mountain of shit and lies, and nobody can make the argument they are going into this with their eyes wide open. We don’t tell them college is not for everyone. We don’t tell them that some degrees will definitely earn more than others, or that some degrees are just bullshit. And more importantly, we don’t warn them that when they fail, they will still have to pay for that failure. And I believe that is on purpose. The unholy alliance between academia and our government makes money easy to get and that debt accrued by those who fail, or even those that succeed, but with worthless degrees, impossible to get rid off. The perps pushing people into this shit have no responsibility or bear any of the pain.

    I want government out of the higher education racket. I want these colleges and universities to be held responsible for whom they let in and what they teach. I want people to have recourse when they are sold a bad deal. If I make an investment based on lies by some company and lose my shirt, I have legal redress. I might not get my money back, but these fucks can and do end up in jail (unless they are demcorats). Similarly, if I buy the nonsense the left sells kids these days (it amounts to no more than a pack of lies on your prospectus), go to one of these institutions of indoctrination, and either fail out or graduate with a worthless degree, I should be able to make the idiots that told me this was a good idea pay for it.

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  5. richtaylor365 says:

    My point is about investment returns.

    But “investment returns” is subjective, surely you know that. For some (most people) it’s all about the bank, making scratch, and that’s fine, but others might value less hours, less stress, being outdoors, being active, their value (what they value) is different from yours.

    Do you believe if it was an unholy alliance between academia and the private sector (instead of government) that was fucking over these kids the way so many are fucked over by the system, that we would not have a law making this illegal?

    Flesh this out for me, how precisely are kids being “fucked over”. You went off into a rant about government but I thought we were talking about higher education, two different things.

    We don’t tell them college is not for everyone.

    Why is that our obligation? And why can’t you go for no other reason than to better yourself. See, this is that liberal elitist crap I was talking about, we don’t need to hold their hands anymore or direct their lives, how about we let them chose for themselves what they want to do. Maybe we just view college differently but I see nothing wrong with 18 year old kid fresh out of HS who has no particular direction to go to college to do something until a clearer path presents itself. Some might have to go straight into the work force, but if he wants to go to college (and he can pay his own way) why should we dissuade him otherwise?

    We don’t tell them that some degrees will definitely earn more than others, or that some degrees are just bullshit.

    You don’t think they already know that? And what is bullshit to you may be just the area of study they find appealing. For example, getting a degree in Women’s Studies may seem like a waste of time to you, but maybe this is just the type of degree needed to write over at MS. Magazine, or score that lobbying job with a firm that specializes in women advocacy. If it excites one’s passions, who are you to say she is wasting her time and her degree is bullshit?

    I want government out of the higher education racket.

    There are many private universities that teach what they want and admit who they want.

    I want people to have recourse when they are sold a bad deal.

    What does that recourse look like exactly? So you think if Joe Blow gets a degree in whatever from a university, that university should guarantee that he gets a job in that field? Hardly what we would call the free market.

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  6. AlexInCT says:

    But “investment returns” is subjective, surely you know that. For some (most people) it’s all about the bank, making scratch, and that’s fine, but others might value less hours, less stress, being outdoors, being active, their value (what they value) is different from yours.

    Then why do I constantly have to hear people talk about gender pay gaps and other such nonsense, Rich? In fact, some of the biggest whiners about their student loan debt or how unfair life is are the types that value fun times over anything else? They are major league pissed that those that put in more time than them and work harder make more. Don’t tell me this isn’t blatantly obvious to you as well. If you value other things, that’s absolutely cool, but then you better not complain about the fact you make less than those that work harder either. BTW, I rarely hear any of the people that actually treat education as an investment and watch their bottom line complain much about student loan debt (unless they are lib class warriors) complain about how much they owe. The ones that use college as party time and want

    Flesh this out for me, how precisely are kids being “fucked over”.

    I saw many kids be encouraged to hock their future and pick up insane debt, to study in fields with minimal career potentials, or even to go to college when they were clearly unqualified, when someone should clearly have informed them of the risk. My kid has a buddy that now owes $35K for one year of college, and has dropped out. Nobody was surprised this was coming except for the now bitter kid. He studied “African Studies” or some such nonsense, BTW. And he isn’t alone. Of my kids circle of friends, 75% went to college, and half of them are dropping out after the first year. A couple had rich parents that paid for it. The others are borrowing, and borrowing big, and out of the lot, only one is actually studying something with more than slim chances of employment after the fact.

    I have made it a point to make sure my kid knew that not every college degree was equal. I even pointed out that some are quite worthless and seem to only amount to a rubber stamp that someone could complete college. He chose a different path based on knowledge that reality that will allow him to both earn more AND have his time to himself. But this was not easy to do as I was fighting heavy influence from people at his high school that told him to just go to college, even if he ended up flunking out and/or put himself in debt to be indoctrinated with all that worthless shit. That’s seriously fucked up.

    You don’t think they already know that?

    Oh, I KNOW that too many of them don’t know. Worse yet are the ones that think it is unfair that they pay the same for their “French Poetry of the 13th century” degree as the kid that does accounting, and they can’t get a job, while the one that did accounting starts off with a job paying them $55K a year (this is based on a real conversation I had with my nephew and his buddies when they graduated a couple of years ago). And if they do know this is the case, then they better shut the fuck up and pay their debt as agreed upon and stop whining.

    What does that recourse look like exactly?

    For one they get told their chances, what they really will be looking at earning and what job prospective they have, and more importantly, when they are deceived into attending a school they are going to end up flunking out of, or worse graduate and can’t find a job because their degree is in a joke field, the school is financially responsible for that debt incurred. I guarantee you that once schools have some responsibility, they will stop offering wasteful degrees of study or letting people in under the pretense of doing good, but really just looking at collecting dollars. Well informed people and schools having skin in the game will change the landscape.

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  7. richtaylor365 says:

    Then why do I constantly have to hear people talk about gender pay gaps and other such nonsense,

    Because as you said, it is nonsense. The free market decides not only the fair wages for each profession, but even the individual worker, the guy that brings more to the company increases his value to that company, and will be compensated accordingly. Naturally we are talking private sector, anyone lucky enough to score a government job can be a total slug and a dolt, no matter, his union will protect him. But this in no way negates my point about choices, people go into specific professions for specific reasons, and money may be low on their list of priorities.

    In fact, some of the biggest whiners about their student loan debt or how unfair life is are the types that value fun times over anything else?

    But it is their choice. When you borrow money for education, fannie mae or whatever lender is not obligated to hold the borrowers hand, make sure he studies and does his best. He is adult, whether he applies himself or parties non stop, it is his choice. You must allow him to fail, unless you are a nanny stater who thinks people can’t fend for themselves and must be provided for.
    Student loans, or any loans must never be forgiven, not fair to the lender, an obligation is an obligation.

    Of my kids circle of friends, 75% went to college, and half of them are dropping out after the first year. A couple had rich parents that paid for it. The others are borrowing, and borrowing big, and out of the lot, only one is actually studying something with more than slim chances of employment after the fact.

    Of my kid’s circle of friends, ALL went to college. There were a few that had no specific direction they wished to pursue so they went to JC, very cheap, no student debt, but they still went. Let me ask you a question, for the kid that is unsure what to study, is overwhelmed and has no direction, what is wrong with going to a JC, getting acclimated to college life, taking basic courses, but continuing his education until that light bulb goes off in his head? Doesn’t he stand a better chance of being successful in life, by getting some college,? Sure, he may have to work part time, but he is young and needs time to get his bearings, college is a perfect place for this.

    Worse yet are the ones that think it is unfair that they pay the same for their “French Poetry of the 13th century” degree as the kid that does accounting, and they can’t get a job, while the one that did accounting starts off with a job paying them $55K a year

    But what happens if he does not want to be an accountant, likes French poetry and has aspirations of teaching French poetry to other’s of like mind, are you going to tell him he can’t do it? It’s his life, I thought one of the fundamental themes of this blog was personal responsibility and personal freedom, it just might be worth it to him to encumber himself with student debt to score his dream job. Yes, he may not succeed, that’s life in the big city, but don’t rob him of his dream.

    when they are deceived into attending a school they are going to end up flunking out of, or worse graduate and can’t find a job because their degree is in a joke field, the school is financially responsible for that debt incurred.

    Who is doing the deceiving, the school, by offering a degree in a field that wish to pursue? Very dangerous ground you are approaching. Do you think the government should just assign jobs to people since you don’t think they should have a choice? So schools are now obligated to make sure graduates find employment, otherwise the kids can sue the school ? How about that accountant you brought up, what if he can’t find a job, does he get to sue the school as well?

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  8. CM says:

    Sure doesn’t sound like Alex’s poor kid had any real choice.

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  9. AlexInCT says:

    Sure doesn’t sound like Alex’s poor kid had any real choice.

    May seem so to you, CM, but then again, you are one of those people that think what the left peddles is anything but demeaning and evil.

    I know what I am saying is not very popular because too many people here are liberal arts types that don’t really want to be told the fact that these days a liberal arts degree isn’t worth the paper it is printed on, but them is the facts.

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  10. CM says:

    May seem so to you, CM, but then again, you are one of those people that think what the left peddles is anything but demeaning and evil.

    But we’re talking about you and what choices were realistically available to your child, given that you were clearly calling the shots. Nothing to do with what the left thinks/peddles.

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  11. AlexInCT says:

    But we’re talking about you and what choices were realistically available to your child, given that you were clearly calling the shots.

    I didn’t call any shots, CM. I informed him, with real facts, objective data, and applied logic. He made his choices. Many of his friends didn’t have parents that did the same for them, and I already see the fall out from that just a year after they graduated. I am making sure my kid knows the world is a place where people that work hard and make the right choices, should be getting rewarded, despite how badly the left’s policies have curved that reality.

    He sees it now in the school he is attending to become an automotive mechanic (his plan is to get that done, work and get experience, then go to college and get a business degree, at night, so he can avoid both debt and wasted time, then open his own business). So many kids just have to show up and put in the minimal effort, but they are so used to skating bye that they can’t even do that. And they are now flunking out, with a lot of debt (you would be flabbergasted to know how much this 18 month program actually costs, and yes, I am paying for it).. He sees first hand that the things we discussed do matter despite of years of being told otherwise. He has had his choices validated. But you can keep pretending that if he was given a choice he would be a liberal douche instead, and do so while ignoring the massive indoctrination that goes on to prey on people that aren’t bright enough to see through the bullshit, which is inexcusable.

    Smart choices matter. Instant gratification comes at a price. know what I am saying?

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  12. CM says:

    But you can keep pretending that if he was given a choice he would be a liberal douche instead

    Oh, My. God. Not even remotely what I said. Hopeless.

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