Obama Admin has turned friends into enemies, and now stands alone.

Recent revelations have shown those of us that are paying attention to other sources than the left wing controlled media, that as we suspected, the Obama administration was no friend to our biggest ally in the ME, despite the assertions to the contrary. We can for all intents and purposes drop the veneer now and point out that Black Jesus’ clan only pretend to care about Israel because of the money they want from American Jews. Otherwise Israel is treated worse than enemy states are.

Unfortunately for us, Israel is not the only ally this administration has treated worse than they would enemy states. Ask the Brits, Germans, Italians, Indians, Japanese, or even the French how well Obama’s administration has made US assets work with them, and in a candid moment you will be told that things were a lot better back in the days when the US was run by the cowboy. And the mistreatment of our allies has happened concurrently with Obama’s people kissing up to the vilest and most villainous scumbags on the planet. And I am being kind here in my choice of words. Even the carter administration, which was about the worst on foreign policy I can remember in my lifetime, never could be as ineffective, inefficient, and downright detrimental to our national security and interests as this crew of imbeciles has been over the last 5 years. The US State department is a giant joke. When you can’t even get the Brits to go along, it tells me you are plain and simply incapable.

The obsession with hitting Syria, regardless of the way things have played out, is about something else. Anyone still denying that is an imbecile or a propagandist for the corrupt Obama administration. This bunch of idiots have turned on our allies and treat them worse than our enemies, and now they wonder why they can’t get any help. You piss on someone’s leg day in day out, and tell them to pretend it is warm rain, they are going to do the same right back to you sooner than later. Right now the cowboy the whole collectivist universe was so happy to replace with Obama sure as hell looks like a genius yet again. Not to toot my own horn, but I pointed out that whatever democrats did would end up worse, and I can clearly see I am vindicated. The sad thing is that our once great nation is being harmed big time, so I find neither solace or joy in being proven right on this.

Comments are closed.

  1. Hal_10000

    The revelation that the state department thought Israel was a spying threat doesn’t bother me because … they kind of are. Jonathan Pollard was stealing our military secrets on their behalf. As I’ve said before, allies spy on each other because their interests do not always coincide. For example, we might not reveal a potential terror threat to Israel because we don’t compromise an intelligence source that could reveal a plot against us. It’s the job of Israel’s intelligence services to get that kind of information. And it’s the job of ours to stop them.

    I expect Israel, given their precarious position, to spy on everyone, allies and enemies alike. And I expect the President to engage in counterintelligence against allies and enemies alike.

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  2. Hal_10000

    Incidentally, I really don’t understand how the British system works. When contemplating war, their parliament actually meets and debates the issue. And the Prime Minster — get this — abides by their decision and the will of the people! Craziness! Doesn’t he know that the merits of wars are supposed to be decided on the pages of the Washington Post?

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  3. Seattle Outcast

    Obama is having a problem of not having the islamofascist terror organization he personally likes & supports being in charge.

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  4. Seattle Outcast

    Based on Obama/Jarrett’s past five years of “policy” concerning Israel everyone that wants to nuke them for existing, various reported comments coming out of the region concerning Obama’s one-on-one conversations with various ME leaders and diplomats, and the fact that the ” christian church” Obama attended was actually run by an “ex-muslim” I think the entire “secret muslim” thing has more legs than it is usually dismissed for not having.

    To clarify – I personally think that Obama doesn’t actually adhere to any particular faith except a radicalized version of 60’s marxism. He attends religious events out of political need, just as his “conversion” to christianity is a political requirement. He does, however, sympathize firstly and foremost with muslims and their causes, and US interests pretty much last or not at all. It’s what he was raised with, and it’s been acknowledged that he was engaged in intense religious studies while living in Indonesia. You just don’t jettison all that baggage on demand.

    As such, he truly has, as Hillary Clinton put it, no commonly shared values with mainstream Americans. He is an outsider and foreigner to us, and you can tell that he’s frequently puzzled when he says or does something and gets a response totally different from what he expected. Likewise, his attitude of “I won, you shut up and go away while I dictate policy” is completely foreign to US politics where “you won, but I’m still here and you still have to get through me to get anything done” is the norm. We would have been much better off with electing a foreign national that at least had common cultural roots with our society, instead of the teleprompter messiah that can’t cogitate unscripted answers on any topic.

    Hot! Thumb up 5

  5. AlexInCT *

    The revelation that the state department thought Israel was a spying threat doesn’t bother me because … they kind of are

    If my biggest ally demanded I talk peace with a death cult that wants to exterminate me as a state and constantly treated me like a disobedient child for not wanting to waste time with this shit, especailly when that ally has a dependency on oil from people that support the death cults agenda, I too would spy on them. Just to make sure they are not going to throw me to the wolves. And in the case of an administration as hostile to me as the current one, and capable of any kind of backstabbing and duplicitous evil shit, I would double, if not tripple, the spying.

    I seriously believe that we will never solve the palestinian problem until we basically admit that it is a waste of time to talk to them until they really mean it, and leave them to flounder until they get with the program. When your kid misbehaves you don’t keep rewarding that behavior in the hopes the kid suddenly picks up that they should be behaving better. After Araft pissed away a deal that was beyond anythign imaginable, I realized that we were just pissing into the wind. Maybe I am obtuse for not liking piss flying back in my face, but hey, I am like that.

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  6. Thrill

    And SecState Thurston P. Kerry, III just got out of a press conference where he tried to sell a reluctant nation on war in the Mideast based on WMD and human rights violations, just like his 2004 electoral opponent did a decade ago.

    I don’t know if it’s possible to die of an irony overdose, but I think I’m a bit dizzy from it right now.

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  7. Hal_10000

    I don’t know if it’s possible to die of an irony overdose, but I think I’m a bit dizzy from it right now.

    Yeah, it’s bizarre. And the case for destroying Syria’s WMDs is weaker than the one for Iraq. A lot weaker. Just goes to show that there no principles, only politics.

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  8. satch

    Gents, correct me if I am wrong here because I may well be, but didn’t Israel provide the intel that Syria may have had or used chemical weapons? If so then Netanyahu has very much out foxed the clown who would likely chuck Israel to the wolves at any chance. By providing this information they are telling the clown in chief – okay, you said something like this would be crossing a red line. So here’s your evidence. What are you prepared to do? Now he’s in a real wringer. Either put up or shut up. Tick off your islamofascist friends or back down and look just as bad. Just a thought chaps.

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  9. Technomad

    I know I’m in the minority on this, but I’ve never been convinced that being so closely allied to Israel was ever in the US’ interest. I remember a lot of things—the “Lavon affair,” the USS Liberty (accident, my codlings, as Blackadder would say) as well as endless spying.

    I’d a lot rather we’d always been a lot more neutral. A lot of the “Islamofascists'” rage against us is over Israel, and I don’t honestly see what it brings to the table that’s worth all the trouble we get. Unfortunately, US foreign policy is subjugated to domestic policy, which is often itself the creature of domestic ethnic and religious lobbies. If things were otherwise, the IRA would have had a lot harder time getting guns and monetary support from the US—as it was, we were one of their primary sources of supply of both, thanks to the Irish-American lobby and their ignorance of all Irish history other than Cromwell and the Potato Famine.

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  10. Mississippi Yankee

    I strongly agree with you about our relationship with Israel. We sacrifice way too much for them for painfully little benefit.

    Yeah, allying ourselves with the only democratically elected government in the whole ME was a poor choice.

    Obama bows to Arab leaders. the Pope bows to a Jordan Queen and want to give a reach-around to …? Now that you’ve decided to shun a 65 year ally will you be prostrating yourself for Sunni or Shiite?

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  11. Thrill

    allying ourselves with the only democratically elected government

    Who cares? Fuck democracy. It’s not doing us any favors here in America, is it?

    Obama bows to Arab leaders. the Pope bows to a Jordan Queen and want to give a reach-around to …?

    Gee, excuse me for favoring tangible national interests over sentimentality. That worthless little strip of land with a tiny population that just so happens to have a highly influential lobbying organization in Washington, right? Yeah, that’s doing us a whole lot of good. I guess it makes perfect sense for us to defend Israel and apologize for every single thing they do, thus earning the fury of 100 million Arabs who happen to control vast reserves of the one natural resources that modern civilization is completely dependent on.

    Let’s put it on the table: Establishing and defending democracy in other fucking people’s countries is not worth killing or dying over. Once you embrace that truth, what logical reason is there to continue blindly supporting Israel?

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  12. hist_ed

    I’d a lot rather we’d always been a lot more neutral. A lot of the “Islamofascists’” rage against us is over Israel, and I don’t honestly see what it brings to the table that’s worth all the trouble we get.

    Despite what the left and the press and the jihadi asswipes say, they don’t hate us because of Israel. They hate Israel because of US. Israel is an outpost of Western freedom that demonstrates by its existence how bankrupt and backwards their societies are. On a tiny patch of wasteland, western democratic ideals created the most successful state in the middle east. Though outnumbered and surrounded, Israel kicks the Arabs ass every time. On average, the richest Arabs in the Middle East are Israeli citizens.

    We’ve never committed troops to Israel, we give them and sell them weapons so they can fight for themselves. Given the load of money we dump every year into third word shitholes, I don’t mid us throwing the Israelis a few tanks and jets.

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  13. Mississippi Yankee

    I guess it makes perfect sense for us to defend Israel and apologize for every single thing they do, thus earning the fury of 100 million Arabs .

    Which “apologize for every single thing they do” are you talking about? Is it bombing Hezbollah weapons and missile caches or destroying Syrian chemical and arms plants or could it be just kicking Arab ass over and over again that bothers you so much. Please feel free to get as anecdotal as needed, why you could even drop down to CM level of anti-Semitic rant but kindly demonstrate how the cons out weigh the pros.

    who happen to control vast reserves of the one natural resources that modern civilization is completely dependent on

    And since you decided that this should be all about “we and us” allow me to point out that US has more oil and natural gas then Saudi Arabia right now and when you factor in oil sand and oil shale we have more resources than the entire ME. Hey let’s take the “all about me” game up a notch and say Screw Europe let the Chinese have it all. They can just add it to their African spigot. After all they’re not really anti Israel they’re just anti- American. So by your logic the ChiComs will “like” us if we give them everyone else’s oil source.

    Oh and everything Hist_ed said. Much better than I ever could.

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  14. Thrill

    Despite what the left and the press and the jihadi asswipes say, they don’t hate us because of Israel.

    They hate us and other things for many reasons. Point is that our support for Israel helps us not at all and makes their hatred of us very justifiable as an extension of the hate they feel for the Israelis. Again, what are we getting out of this except giving a big middle finger to the Arab world for being backward and stupid? Is that an end unto itself?

    We’ve never committed troops to Israel

    Not to be contradictory, but we absolutely did commit troops to defend Israel in the Gulf War. US Army Patriot missile batteries were stationed on their soil.

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  15. Mississippi Yankee

    Technomad,
    Why do I get the distinct suspicion from your comments over the past week that you are a Brit trying to pass yourself of as an everyday American? Not exactly a tingly spider sense but definitely a strong hunch. Call it written body language.

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  16. Thrill

    Please feel free to get as anecdotal as needed, why you could even drop down to CM level of anti-Semitic rant but kindly demonstrate how the cons out weigh the pros.

    Cons:

    Israel is frequently accused by the international community of being an apartheid government for its treatment of the Palestinians.

    israel possesses nuclear weapons and reserves the right to own WMD only for itself.

    Israel has no vital natural resources nor does it have any other compelling national interest for the United States.

    You idiots who cheer Israel on for kicking Arab ass support those in the Middle East who inflame opinion against the US by pointing out that we hate Arabs. You seem to believe this, based on crap like this:

    could it be just kicking Arab ass over and over again

    The US’s support for Israel is perceived as tacit approval for this, fairly or not.

    Pros:

    Yay, democracy.

    So it’s pretty clear to me that the cons outweigh the pros.

    So by your logic the ChiComs will “like” us if we give them everyone else’s oil source.

    I have no idea what you’re talking about. The Chinese aren’t dumb enough to marry their diplomacy to divisive lost causes like the Israelis and so they’re more likely to make inroads with the Arab world than we are.

    Seriously, if Israeli friendship were somehow the keystone to geopolitical control of the Mideast, don’t you think we’d be competing with Russia and China to win their favor?

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  17. Thrill

    Why do I get the distinct suspicion from your comments over the past week that you are a Brit trying to pass yourself of as an everyday American?

    I always thought he was a Turk.

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  18. Technomad

    Mississippi Yankee: FWIW, I was born a US citizen, of US citizen parents with four US citizen grandparents. My loyalties are solely to the United States.

    As for my being of British origins—what can I say other than that I think, and write, in grammatical, correct English? I realize (note my spelling there) that correct English is as dead in large areas of the US as Etruscan, but that’s hardly my fault. I’m not at all certain where you got the idea that I’m a Turk.

    And I haven’t been putting up notes here much for some time. Are you sure it’s me you’re thinking of?

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  19. CM

    …you could even drop down to CM level of anti-Semitic rant…

    ;-)
    It’s just, you know, why do they have to control EVERYTHING?

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  20. Iconoclast

    Fuck democracy. It’s not doing us any favors here in America, is it?

    I would argue that it isn’t democracy per se that’s screwing us over. I would argue that it’s a number of factors, including the general ignorance/apathy of the electorate, the very concept of the career politician, and the systematic undermining of our Constitutional apparatus over the past century by the rotting cancer of progressivism/liberalism. I believe that if we could regress back to the point where only property owners could vote, and there was no 16th Amendment giving the federal government the ability to tax essentially all income, we wouldn’t be careening down this path to oblivion.

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  21. AlexInCT *

    I’d a lot rather we’d always been a lot more neutral. A lot of the “Islamofascists’” rage against us is over Israel, and I don’t honestly see what it brings to the table that’s worth all the trouble we get.

    If it was not Israel it would be some other excuse. Like the fact we have bases on their holy ground. Or we support a government they don’t like (meaning not them and doing what they want). Or that we are the great Satan. Or that we are morally bankrupt. Our women are not owned. We don’t kill gays. We eat pigs and keep dogs. Lady Gaga is really a dude. Blah, blah, blah.

    We could pack up and leave the ME, blow up Israel on the way out, just for good measure, and these fucks would follow us out and be at us for whatever new reason they could invent. The problem is the Islamofascist and what they really want. Their agenda has been to use Islam as a means to control the globe. That means everybody. So until we decide to worship Allah and make the ultimate authority on earth, they will ALWAYS have an excuse to want to kill us. And once we finally bow down, they will start killing us over sectarian differences. The problem isn’t so much with us or Israel, although the fact that we refuse to kill as many of them as possible every time they come at us only serves to encourage them because they see it as weakness, as it is the way these moronic fucks think and act.

    They hate us and other things for many reasons.

    It really comes down to a single reason: they hate us because we remind them of how fucked up they are. Our existence proves that they are backwards, that their ways are not the best, and that there are alternatives. They want none of that. It’s all the 7 deadly sins rolled into one giant angst. They are predominantly a dysfunctional bunch of clannish shits and they are permanently stuck in the myth of how great their past was. Instead of admitting their problem is one of their own making, they have externalized it. It is easier to blame a foreign agency than your own stupid ways, because if you admit the problem is yours then you are the only one that can fix it.

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  22. AlexInCT *

    Israel is frequently accused by the international community of being an apartheid government for its treatment of the Palestinians.

    israel possesses nuclear weapons and reserves the right to own WMD only for itself.

    Israel has no vital natural resources nor does it have any other compelling national interest for the United States.

    I don’t know, but when you have a history of other people trying to exterminate you as a people, and one such group of evil fucks almost doing that just some 70 years ago, with another group of evil fucks picking up that torch and continuing the legacy now surrounding your small nation and vowing to finish off the job, I have a feeling you would basically decide not to ever trust anyone else and arm yourself to the teeth. Israel has had nukes for some 4 or 5 decades, and yet we have never felt the need to target them. Look at how we reacted and feel about Pakistan or Iran with nukes. Some people simply are evil and can’t be trusted with WMDs.

    And Israel, despite the lack of natural resources to this point, has managed to become the only really prosperous nation in the ME. They just recently found massive natural gas reserves right of the coast of Israel BTW, and I have a feeling that unlike the moronic arabs that squandered that opportunity with their oil, Israel will put their newly discovered natural resources to good use.

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  23. Technomad

    Yeah, Israel seems prosperous. If I had a rich uncle who would subsidize me till the cows came home, no matter what stupid things I did and what trouble I caused for him to deal with, I could seem prosperous and successful. If they’re so damn successful, why don’t they reach down, find a pair, man up and say “Okay, we can go it on our own—we don’t need subsidies, never-repay loans, and endless help?”

    One reason I don’t like the bastards is because, as a US taxpayer, I’m subsidizing their worthless asses, and I don’t see what I get out of it. If we’d put the money we threw down that particular rathole (Israel is, by a long shot, the biggest single recipient of foreign aid from the US government, and that’s not counting other stuff we do for them) we could have colonies on the moon. Hell, we could have cities on Mars!

    And their “friendship” is nothing I’d trust. A lot of what we know Pollard gave them was of no direct interest to them, but was to the Soviets. Anybody care to bet that the Israelis didn’t cheerfully swap that intel with the Russians for stuff they wanted? They’d stab us in the back in a second if they saw a reason to. Not to mention trying to blow up the USS Liberty. If we hadn’t had a Democratic Prez, we could have cut them off at the knees for that little stunt. “Oh, it was an accident! They didn’t mean to!” Bullshit! In any other military in the world, the person(s) responsible for a lethal attack on a friendly country’s warship in international waters, even in time of war, would be lucky to not be in that country’s version of Leavenworth! Instead, the people responsible for the Liberty attack got promoted and petted. Not a sign that they were acting against orders, or that it was an accident. At least not in my book.

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  24. Seattle Outcast

    I know I’m in the minority on this, but I’ve never been convinced that being so closely allied to Israel was ever in the US’ interest. I remember a lot of things—the “Lavon affair,” the USS Liberty (accident, my codlings, as Blackadder would say) as well as endless spying.

    I’ve never been convinced they are an ally, but then I get reminded that out of that entire shithole piece of real estate, they stink the least.

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  25. AlexInCT *

    Yeah, Israel seems prosperous. If I had a rich uncle who would subsidize me till the cows came home, no matter what stupid things I did and what trouble I caused for him to deal with, I could seem prosperous and successful.

    Need I point out that the bulk of American subsidy to Israel is military equipment which more often than not is purchased from us or developed in cooperation with us, resulting in the money, well most of it, ending back right here in the US? That’s some pretty clever subsidy IMO, and well worth what we get in return. By comparison the Palestinians have multiple rich uncles. The get money from other arab nations, the Europeans, and us, and yet, they are a fucking shit hole. Then you have all the other islamist hell holes in the ME that despite their natural wealth remain shitholes too. Just saying…

    And as I pointed out, they found their natural resource to make them wealthy, so they will need less help from us than they do now. As was pointed out, they simply are the only one in that part of the world that doesn’t reek of death and shit.

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  26. Seattle Outcast

    We have also made some rather fucked-up and one-sided agricultural agreements with Israel as well.

    I remember one year as a kid the stores were flooded with these nasty, dry, tough oranges about the size of a baseball for many months, and they were all you could get. And it’s not as if they were any cheaper than oranges from Florida or California, but those just couldn’t be found. Nor had there been any weather incidents that would account for the lack of US oranges in the store. It was quite the mystery, and one day they all seemed to have vanished and you could get good oranges again. A few months later it happened again, only it didn’t last as long until they went away.

    If you happened to get your hands on one of the cardboard crates the oranges came in and looked it over, you’d find that they were from Israel.

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  27. Mississippi Yankee

    Cons
    1) Israel is frequently accused by the international community of being an apartheid government for its treatment of the Palestinians.

    2) israel possesses nuclear weapons and reserves the right to own WMD only for itself.

    3) Israel has no vital natural resources nor does it have any other compelling national interest for the United States.

    4) You idiots who cheer Israel on for kicking Arab ass support those in the Middle East who inflame opinion against the US by pointing out that we hate Arabs. You seem to believe this, based on crap like this:
    could it be just kicking Arab ass over and over again

    The US’s support for Israel is perceived as tacit approval for this, fairly or not.

    1) In 1948 the newly forming state of Israel invited all of the people from the fabled land of Palestine to become citizens of their State. Many accepted and became Israeli Arabs, they prospered , and now are close to outnumbering Israeli Jews. All with little or no conflict.

    The remainder of Palestine’s arabs have been used, first as cannon fodder, and since as political puppets and pawns by such noble men as the kings of Saudi Arabia and Jordan, the rulers of Syria, Egypt and Lebanon. This all started on the day Israel’s charter began. (and proved they kicked arab ass)
    But you continue to put your eggs in that ” international community” basket. And don’t give a second thought as to their antisemitism.

    2) We ” possesses nuclear weapons and reserves the right to own WMD only for itself.” Just ask North Korea and Iran.

    3)
    Israel has no vital natural resources
    See Alex’s comment.
    As to it’s usefulness, Israel is in the favorable spot to keep an eye on the Muslim Brotherhood in both Egypt and Syria.

    4) Could you point out when Israel WAS NOT provoked into kicking arab ass over and over again? How many attacks came from ,at first arab countries and then muslim backed entities such as PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood? How many short-range missiles land in Israel every frickin day? (hint” you won’t read about them in the K C fish wrap).

    apartheid
    Was giving a Gaza (and all of it’s functioning infrastructure) back to the PLO an act of apartheid. Is that how you (a true useful idiot) and the “Kill the Jews” international community see it?

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  28. Mississippi Yankee

    Yeah, Israel seems prosperous. If I had a rich uncle who would subsidize me till the cows came home, no matter what stupid things I did and what trouble I caused for him to deal with, I could seem prosperous and successful. If they’re so damn successful, why don’t they reach down, find a pair, man up and say “Okay, we can go it on our own—we don’t need subsidies, never-repay loans, and endless help?”

    Can we substitute Egypt for Israel in the dross filled rant? Lord knows we subsidized them billions.

    And please tell us, specifically, what you mean by this?

    no matter what stupid things I did and what trouble I caused for him to deal with,

    Did you mean defending itself? Or is there some heinous aggressive act they commited? Perhaps something you may have read in say the Guardian?

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  29. Thrill

    You’re still not getting it. I swear, the robotic reaction that comes out of otherwise sane conservatives anytime anybody suggests that the US shouldn’t offer Israel unconditional support is depressing to witness.

    Point by point:

    #1: I do not care. The Israelis are currently stuck with the Palestinian problem and there’s no reason why we should be associated with it on the Israeli side.

    #2: The US enforces weapons sanctions under international agreements and UN resolutions, generally. Israel uses unilateral action, which further feeds the perception that it’s a rogue state.

    #3: Fine, Israel has some natural gas. That benefits Europe more than us in any case and it is still less critical than petroleum and not a suitable reason to give them unconditional, unwavering friendship. Also, Israel isn’t “keeping an eye” on anything. Their mere presence aggravates the MB in Egypt and AQ in Syria. We do ourselves no favors by marching in lockstep with Israel.

    #4: Again, I do not care. Israel can work it out by itself, or not. It doesn’t matter to me at all what that country does.

    Is that how you (a true useful idiot) and the “Kill the Jews” international community see it?

    It’s perfectly fine with me if Israel lasts for 1,000 years as a Jewish state. I just don’t believe that it’s our job to guarantee that to the point of being hostile with the Arab world.

    Who’s really being the “useful idiot”? You’re the one subordinating your own nation’s national interests to a tiny, borderline rogue state that apparently spies on us with relish. I favor what is best for America, not supporting some random country simply because I think it’s cool.

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  30. hist_ed

    Not to be contradictory, but we absolutely did commit troops to defend Israel in the Gulf War. US Army Patriot missile batteries were stationed on their soil.

    Contradict away, that’s why we are here. I had forgotten about this, point taken. My original point still, mostly) stands: We are providing Israel with the tools to defend itself. Unlike many other allies where thousands of US troops are permanently based to defend them.

    They hate us and other things for many reasons. Point is that our support for Israel helps us not at all and makes their hatred of us very justifiable as an extension of the hate they feel for the Israelis.

    If Israel didn’t exist, the arab dictators and Jihadis would have had to invent it. The Saudis, the Baathists, the mullahs of Iran all would have had a much harder time staying in power without the evil Jews to blame things on. The street starts getting riled up due to generational poverty and massive corruption? Quick, scream “Jews!!!!” and point a finger somewhere.

    Do you really think that if Israel didn’t exist the Muslim Arab world would be just a happy peaceful place without a thought to spreading their violent death cult over the world?

    Israel is frequently accused by the international community of being an apartheid government for its treatment of the Palestinians.

    Who gives a shit that factually challenged dictatorships and baskets cases can’t figure out the difference between a democracy and Apartheid. One sixth of Israel’s citizenry is Arab. There are Arabs elected to Israel’s parliament. The Palestinians are not Israelis. If idiots, racists abd Jimmy Carter (but I repeat myself) can’t figure out the difference, screw ‘em.

    israel possesses nuclear weapons and reserves the right to own WMD only for itself.

    I kinda missed the Israeli’s protest again the American, British, French and Chinese nuclear arsenals. Thanks for the reminder.

    Israel has no vital natural resources nor does it have any other compelling national interest for the United States.

    Israel is one of our closest allies. While our current president doesn’t think that’s important, it is. “No better friend, no worse enemy” is a pretty good slogan (Sulla’s epitaph if I remember correctly). Besides that, if one wants to think cynically, Israel has drawn a lot of fire that might have gone our way. The jihadis want to conquer the world for Islam-lots of them have been blowing themselves up in Israel instead of Western Europe or the US.

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  31. hist_ed

    So Thrill are you arguing for 19th century style isolationism? If not, what country is worth an alliance and support?

    The Palestinians could have had their own country anytime in the last few decades. All they have to do is stop killing Jews. Not even forever, just for a little while. They could get their own country, try to build it up for a generation, and then attack Israel again. They could be relatively prosperous instead of at the mercy of corrupt murderers who see the average Palestinian as a human shield or suicide bomber. If they just valued their children future a little more than killing Jews, this would end.

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  32. Thrill

    So Thrill are you arguing for 19th century style isolationism?

    No, I would like to see us formulate a 21st Century diplomacy based on current realities instead of dragging along with the late 20th Century New World Order model started by the Elder Bush. I don’t understand why anyone thinks we should be the world’s policeman, why we are supposed to intervene in failed states where we have no vital interests, or why we are required by treaty to defend nations that refuse to maintain sufficient armed forces to protect themselves.

    This has to end. The US is going to be less capable and less willing to perform this role over the next decade or so. We’re already well into a time of stronger regional powers where the influence of a weakening superpower is increasingly meaningless. Can we at least acknowledge reality in our foreign policy instead of simply dropping bombs on any random country that displeases us?

    If not, what country is worth an alliance and support?

    I would suggest that the first choice of an ally should be one who isn’t a complete liability. I’d favor countries where we have a vital interest, are willing and able to provide for their own defense and assist us in a major war, and aren’t so incredibly divisive on the world stage that it makes other countries dislike us by extension.

    From my point of view, that eliminates almost all of them except for Canada. All of the other nations of NATO are worthless allies (no offense to those of you in those countries) who can’t even carry out limited campaigns in failed states like Libya and Syria without our help.

    Israel is a liability from my perspective. They’re doomed by sheer demographics, widely hated, and have nothing to offer us.

    The Palestinians could have had their own country anytime in the last few decades. All they have to do is stop killing Jews.

    What does that have to do with the US? We didn’t establish those borders. It doesn’t affect us at all whether Palestine becomes a prosperous state or not. This bizarre belief that we’re required to uphold the borders drawn at the collapse of the British Empire in the 1940’s is what needs to stop. Crazy people in shithole countries are going to kill each other for all of time, as they always have. I don’t believe for a minute that America has a duty to put a stop to it unless it actually benefits us. I have no use for expensive moralistic crusades.

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  33. Section8

    Totally agree with your assessment Thrill

    From my point of view, that eliminates almost all of them except for Canada.

    Agree with the this, and Britain is a given. They’ve been by our side continuously, and to some extent Australia. Perhaps our alliances though should be more based on if you are attacked directly rather than if interests are threatened. Same goes with other countries we are in agreements with. They shouldn’t be obligated to do our bidding either outside of a direct attack or threat. Don’t see the need to have any bases in those countries though.

    While I have nothing against Israel, I agree it’s not our responsibility.

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  34. stogy

    1) In 1948 the newly forming state of Israel invited all of the people from the fabled land of Palestine to become citizens of their State. Many accepted and became Israeli Arabs, they prospered , and now are close to outnumbering Israeli Jews. All with little or no conflict.

    This is just about as fact-free as they come. Where did you get this information – a Leon Uris novel? Or worse, a movie?

    Arab Israelis only make up about 20% of the total Israeli population. They are the targets of abuse and derision in the streets – particularly from the military if they are wearing clothes that identify them as Muslim. I personally saw very active discrimination against Israeli Arabs the whole time I was there (including repeated and completely unprovoked attacks on one female member of the conference party I was traveling with, reducing her to tears). Arab Israelis certainly have not prospered in most of the areas they live. It is almost impossible for non-Jewish Israelis to get building permits, and once land is sold, to buy it back (or to buy new land, for that matter). Many of the Arab Israeli cities are on the negotiation block for trading to Palestine – with or without their agreement – in return for settler land. How would you feel if your country negotiated away your citizenship without caring about your own rights to decide.

    If you are wondering about the stumbling blocks to peace, I would say that in addition to the ever stupid leadership of Hamas, that the current Israeli government policies towards settlements (stalling the peace process to take as much of the remaining parts of Palestine as they can), and the utterly indefensible demand that Israel is recognized as a ‘Jewish’ state, not as a democratic state with freedom of religion and ideas. Some of the people I met told me not to call them Arab Israelis. They said, we are Palestinians. Please call us that. No wonder.

    A lot of the above information was also told to me by Jewish Israelis who don’t agree with their own government’s position, but then they’re also a minority who are largely ignored. And subject to the same wire tapping and secret service monitoring that we have come to expect these days in democratic states.

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  35. stogy

    apartheid
    Was giving a Gaza (and all of it’s functioning infrastructure) back to the PLO an act of apartheid. Is that how you (a true useful idiot) and the “Kill the Jews” international community see it?

    Forget Palestine. Israel itself is an apartheid state. Just as the South African apartheid regime characterized it as. Just as David Ben Gurion predicted it would become. It’s not a term that began with Jimmy Carter but within South Africa and then Israel

    In comparison to South Africa, the Human Sciences Research Council of South Africa said that there were three pillars of comparison between South Africa and Israel:

    The first pillar “derives from Israeli laws and policies that establish Jewish identity for purposes of law and afford a preferential legal status and material benefits to Jews over non-Jews”.

    The second pillar is reflected in “Israel’s ‘grand’ policy to fragment the OPT [and] ensure that Palestinians remain confined to the reserves designated for them while Israeli Jews are prohibited from entering those reserves but enjoy freedom of movement throughout the rest of the Palestinian territory. This policy is evidenced by Israel’s extensive appropriation of Palestinian land, which continues to shrink the territorial space available to Palestinians; the hermetic closure and isolation of the Gaza Strip from the rest of the OPT; the deliberate severing of East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank; and the appropriation and construction policies serving to carve up the West Bank into an intricate and well-serviced network of connected settlements for Jewish-Israelis and an archipelago of besieged and non-contiguous enclaves for Palestinians”.

    The third pillar is “Israel’s invocation of ‘security’ to validate sweeping restrictions on Palestinian freedom of opinion, expression, assembly, association and movement [to] mask a true underlying intent to suppress dissent to its system of domination and thereby maintain control over Palestinians as a group.”

    Again, these points have been backed up by Jewish Israelis, who support and love Israel – just not the Israel they see it becoming.

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  36. Mook

    Arab Israelis only make up about 20% of the total Israeli population. They are the targets of abuse and derision in the streets – particularly from the military if they are wearing clothes that identify them as Muslim.

    Yet there are more opportunities and freedoms for these arabs in Israel as compared to any arab-run country. Israelis tend to be suspicious when one particular ethnic group is guilty of blowing up their buses and pizza parlors.

    Alex was 1000% right when he said that if it wasn’t for the Israelis, the arabs would find another target to focus their murderous hatred.

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