Margeret Thatcher, R.I.P.

The Iron lady has passed away. As far as I am concerned she was the European leader with the biggest balls in the last 75 years and a blessing to the British people. She was a giant, and part of the trio that came together to tear down the evil Empire. We are all blessed to have had her there when she was most needed, and we should all be saddened that we will likely never see anyone of her caliber in charge again, considering the current breed of nanny staters that are running the show.

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  1. Hal_10000

    I don’t say this often to you, Alex, but A-Fucking-Men! We lost a truly great lady today. I think Berlinski said it best: the real triumph of Thatcherism was Labour adopting all her policies.

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  2. Poosh

    She pulled Britain out of the abyss. From the shit-man of Europe to one of the World’s economic power houses. She made Britain mighty again, she regenerated a dying nation. All our wealth and indeed the foundations on which our welfare state are by necessity built were bolstered and cemented by her.

    And she is hated for it.

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  3. Hal_10000

    The reason she is hated is because she proved all her detractors wrong. They were eyeball-deep in Keynesian bullshit and said her reforms would never work. They did. They were convinced that the Soviet Union would never fall. She helped bring it down. They wanted to give up the Falklands; she won them back. The labor leaders thought they would bring about a worker’s revolution. They didn’t.

    Thatcher rebuked every Lefty Ivory Tower dickhead that ever lived. And they never forgave her for that. And they never will.

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  4. West Virginia Rebel

    Along with Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher helped define leadership in the Eighties when it mattered.

    She was pilloried by her critics, but she proved to be better than any of them. The lady was not for turning, and England was saved because of it.

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  5. Hal_10000

    One thing I loved about her: she was a fierce debater. Minister’s questions, the media — she loved debate and could destroy a poorly prepared opponent. Can’t think of anyone who has that ability today.

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  6. Hal_10000

    Keynesianism was particular relevant to Thatcher though. For about twenty years, both the UK and US governments chased this piece of Keynesian bullshit called the Phillips Curve, where they deliberately caused inflation because they thought it would decrease unemployment. And at the end of the 70’s, both inflation and unemployment were high, which the Keynesians said was impossible (and some still says was impossible).

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  7. ilovecress

    Obviously I wasn’t as much of a fan as you guys were, but now’s not the time. I’ll leave it to Paddy Ashdown:

    She was better as destroyer of old tired institutions and lazy ways of thinking than she was as the builder of new ones; better at defining divisions than building cohesion. But probably that’s what Britain needed then. Had we on the left not grown so lazy about our addictions to the easy ways of state corporatism, she would perhaps have been less successful at so cruelly exposing their hollowness. The pre-eminent attribute in politics is courage; the moral courage to hold to the things you believe in. And this, like her or loathe her, she had in abundance.

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  8. Miguelito

    I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that exact exchange of hers, and she’s dead on. We’re seeing the same thing happening again today in the US too. So many of the people focusing on the spread between the rich and poor don’t seem to want to actually lift everyone up, but want to demonize those that are rich (as though they absolutely had to cheat to get what they have) and tear them down through ever higher taxes and redistribution. Even those that give some lip service to lifting up the poor tend to want to do it through redistribution of wealth rather then helping to build a robust economy that would have the jobs needed to help them help themselves.

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  9. Hal_10000

    Cress, I’ve heard that view a lot. That’s basically what Sullivan said: that she smashed down the old way of doing things. It did take quite some time to rebuild it (before Blair pissed all over it).

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  10. HARLEY

    Dear Gods, The Titans, First Reagan and Then Thacher are gone…..Truly a sad day.. that Grand old Dame, she saved the United Kingdom from the abyss stood side by side with Reagan to win the cold war with out actual war…. That lady had ball of solid brass…..

    What REALLY irks me is that the first news story i read on her passing included mostyu pictures of people celebrating.WTF?@! most of them seem to be fairly young and if they were alive during her service, to the UK, they would have been in diapers….

    its fucking disgusting,,

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  11. Poosh

    But that is what they do. The took the fruits of Thatcher and pissed them away and never asked where? or why? or how? did all this wealth that suddenly appeared, to be redistributed, come about in the first place.

    Don’t be too hard on Blair, he was a good man. It was Brown who did the real f*cking up.

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  12. Mississippi Yankee

    Dear Gods, The Titans, First Reagan and Then Thacher are gone…..Truly a sad day..

    Yes a truly sad day, it’s only consolation is that Reagan and Thatcher led relatively long and mostly healthy lives.At least into their 70’s.
    May they now R.I.P.

    But this headline saddened me quite a bit more;

    Apr 08, 2013 · Legendary Disney Mouseketeer Annette Funicello died on Monday from complications due to Multiple Sclerosis, a disease she battled for more than 25 years

    She may not have saved the free world but she was the first girl that ever made me realize perhaps at the age of 6 “breastettes”. While Reagan and Thatcher may have saved me Annette fundamentally ‘changed me’.

    I feel very sad and very old today.

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  13. ilovecress

    What REALLY irks me is that the first news story i read on her passing included mostyu pictures of people celebrating.WTF?

    She really is quite hated in the UK. Yes she did ‘save’ the UK from the 70’s and brought in a new era that we were definitately looking for – but it was at the expense of a lot of people and a way of life. Whether or not you agree with the course she took us on, she did destroy huge areas of the UK – especially in the North. Scars you can still see.

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  14. Hal_10000

    McArdle had a pretty balanced look at the coal strike, which was the defining moment of her career, IMHO (also, for that asshole Scargill).

    I did see Funicello went. I am close to several people with MS and it can be terrible when it enters the progressive phase. And it’s no day at the beach in relapse-remitting either.

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  15. InsipiD

    The worst part about her passing is that (just like when Reagan did) her fiercest critics had no trouble finding a microphone, while millions who benefited from her life are strangely silent. It’s also remarkably easy to find cases like Geri Halliwell, who initially posted a trite but complimentary Tweet and then took it down when a few idiotic critics said a few nasty things.

    If Britain had someone like her in charge today, I’d be about ready to rejoin the Empire.

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  16. ilovecress

    I’d love to get into the pros and cons of Thatcherism, but I don’t think that todays the day. If nothing else, she was a brilliant politician and an incredible woman.

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  17. CM

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  18. AlexInCT *

    The worst was the people bashing here who, weeks earlier were praising Hugo Chavez.

    What it shows is how devout the left is to their monsters. Their faith is so strong they are willing to make a hero out of some evil fuck like Chavez (or Che), while actual heroes get demonized because they do not share the left’s faith in Leviathan and their bankrupt ideology. It never cease to amaze me how hate filled the people claiming to be the compasionate ones are….

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  19. Hal_10000

    I don’t object to celebrating the death of a dictator or someone who killed people. But it seems to me the Thatcher hatred is way out of proportion to anything reasonable. People bash her for supporting Pinochet, forgetting that we were in a Cold War and everything except the Soviet Union was background noise (as it should have been, the USSR was a hostile nuclear power). The bash her for Section 28 and condemning Mandela – deserved in my opinion. They attack her for selling off nationalized industries and breaking the union — understandable, but things that had to happen if the UK economy was ever going to move again (when she took over, the Uk economy was the worst in Europe).

    I can understand how some people wouldn’t like what she did. But the sheer hatred is stunning.

    I think there are two things behind the riots. One, as I mentioned earlier, is that she proved the intellectual elite wrong over and over again. And the fact that this was a woman, a grocer’s daughter, a middle-class girl who didn’t got to the elite schools just infuriated them even further. Thatcher was supposed to be beneath them. And instead she beat she the shit out of the politically and philosophically over and over and over again. It enraged them that she was the most successful Prime Minister in 150 years. Groupthink play a lot into that too.

    Two, I noticed that a lot of the rioters seem young. Far too young to really remember Thatcher. I think they’ve just been told by the media and their teachers how awful Thatcher was, they know she was a Tory and … well, any excuse to riot really.

    In the end, it doesn’t matter. Thatcher’s legacy — the end of the broken British post-war economic model, the fall of the Soviet Union and the promotion of free market ideology — will outlast anything these twerps ever do.

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  20. AlexInCT *

    Like, for instance, Pinochet? Oh, wait……

    Sorry cress, but with the exception of maybe Franco, that’s about the only guy the left can mention to give them cover from the fact they worship monsters. And I remind you that all things considered, like Franco and Hitler, Pinochet was a fascist. And fascism is a lefty phenomenon, despite the attempts to rewrite history to tie fascism to the right. I do not want to bother to defend Pinochet, but have to point out that considering what he did, in the grand scheme of things, it amounts to peanuts and since it literally involved dealing with communists, whom by far hold the record for slaughter and evil, the people that can’t help but kiss real monster’s asses should really not be making him out to be such an evil guy.

    The list of evil leftists that cannot be foisted through slights of hand on the right however is long and distinguished. These people that today get a pass while others with far less blood on their hands get pilloried have murdered over 100 million, often their own people, and imprisoned billions around the globe. But hey, let’s pretend there is an equivalency between right and left so we do not have to bother explaining the fawning over blood thirsty evil collectivist fucks while attacking those that resisted said evil fucks.

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  21. Hal_10000

    Alex, it would take a very large expansion of the word lefty to possibly include Pinochet. Pinochet introduced free market reforms (he had the Chicago Boys in house), cut tariffs, opened trade, privatized. I went to Chile many times in the 90’s and the thing I would hear, over and over again, was “Well, Pinochet was obviously bad …. but …” and they would talk about how he made them into one of the strongest economies in South America.

    That doesn’t excuse his behavior, obviously. Many Chileans did like Allende and were overjoyed when Pinochet stepped down. I don’t think his changes required his tactics. But there is no way you can possibly call him a lefty given what he actually did.

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  22. Hal_10000

    Here is one of my favorite stats on the subject:

    Augusto Pinochet was accused of embezzling $28 million during his rule.

    Left hero Hugo Chavez? $1 billion. He was literally 40 times as corrupt as Pinochet. And he didn’t leave Chile as a smoking economic hole with the highest murder rate in the world.

    (No, I’m not saying Pinochet was good; I’m saying you can’t say Pinochet was evil and Chavez was wonderful.)

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  23. AlexInCT *

    Alex, it would take a very large expansion of the word lefty to possibly include Pinochet. Pinochet introduced free market reforms (he had the Chicago Boys in house), cut tariffs, opened trade, privatized.

    I went off the premise that the left considered him to be a fascist, Hal. And yes, Pinochet did every one of those things you mentioned, including fighting the communists trying to take over his country and straddle the people with the hell they always bring along, and that’s what the left really despises him for the most. They pretend they are appalled by the brutality the fight against the always barbarous and brutal communists led to, but considering they never feel bad and actually defend barbarism and brutality when it is communists doing it, one can safely dismiss that as obfuscation of their real motivation by the left.

    Pinochet’s crime, like that of the Shah in Iran, Franco in Spain, Somoza in Nicaragua, and countless others that stood with us against the USSR’s expansionism during the Cold War, in the eyes of the leftists, was that they resisted said expansionism. That’s what really makes people like Pinochet, Thatcher, and Reagan, bad guys. Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, the Kims, Castro & his butt boy Guevara, the Sandinistas, and more recently Chavez, all meant well. They are allowed to break a few eggs to make that omelet, because they were/are helping the oppressed!

    I went to Chile many times in the 90′s and the thing I would hear, over and over again, was “Well, Pinochet was obviously bad …. but …” and they would talk about how he made them into one of the strongest economies in South America.

    I not only heard the same from them when I was there, but all you need to do is look at where Chile is today compared to the other countries that where not lucky enough to have someone fight of the communists in earnest, to see Pinochet actually saved their asses from the collectivists and the damage they do. Ask the Bolivians, Venezuelans, and the Nicaraguans how well that collectivism has worked out for them.

    BTW, I guess I want to again say that I am not calling Pinochet a lefty. I am pointing out that the left labeled him a fascist, and by that label, since fascism is a socialist disease, he would be one of them.

    Augusto Pinochet was accused of embezzling $28 million during his rule.

    Left hero Hugo Chavez? $1 billion. He was literally 40 times as corrupt as Pinochet.

    Inflation!!!!!eleventy!!

    /libtard defender of monsters off

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  24. ilovecress

    Hal,

    One, as I mentioned earlier, is that she proved the intellectual elite wrong over and over again.

    Dude, I used to live in Brixton, it’s not exactly the home of the intellectual elites. The opposition to Thatcher is most definitely not from the Elites. This was the case within her own party in the early 70’s, but it’s nothing to do with why the left hates her. There are no riots at Eton college….

    Far too young to really remember Thatcher

    But exactly the right age to be brought up in Thatcher’s Britain – and there’s your explanation.

    For good or for ill, Thatcherism was somewhat of a revolution – and in a revolution, half of the population are going to get f*cked. Her economic policy modernized the British economy, but at a huge cost. If you’ve ever been to Mythyr or any of the South Wales towns that used to run on mining – you’ll see the effect that just pulling the plug and letting people fend for themselves has had. The same in the North and in Scotland.

    Yes she cut taxes and put in place the foundations of the London economy, but it was balanced by selling off assets, doubling indirect taxes (VAT) and high inflation – all of which disproportionately affects the poorer in the country. She moved democracy out of the local centres, and centralized it with non elected QUANGOS – the legacy of which still lingers today. She tried to introduce the Poll Tax, which, if you know your history, never goes down well with us Brits.

    She was implicit in the Hillsborough cover up – and never apologized even when the cover up was exposed. Thatcherite John Madjeski’s Reading are playing Liverpool this weekend on the anniversary of Hillsborough, so it’ll be interesting to watch what happens there.

    And as for the cold war thing – realize that it wasn’t as big a deal for us Brits as it was for you guys. Yes it was a fairly big deal, but it was no existential crisis like it was for you guys. Even her supporters aren’t making too much of a big deal about it. In fact, I’d say in that regard she’ll be more remembered as an influential figure in US history than in British.

    History will decide if Thatcher’s cure was better or worse than the disease (it probably was) – but to deny the effect her policies had on the generation of people growing up in the ghost towns that used to thrive under Britain’s industries is myopic.

    Plus she took away my milk.

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  25. ilovecress

    Hal,

    Looking at it:

    Present policies will deepen the depression, erode the industrial base of our economy and threaten its social and political stability

    Erode the industrial base of the economy? Well that’s exactly what happened. Social and Political Stability? Check. Deepen the depression – not exactly, but she precided over 2 recessions and record unemployment (which prompted the said letter).

    The economy hovered around 2% growth – but that was nearly all centered in London. Places like Sheffield and Liverpool all but died. This ‘saving of the economy’ wasn’t apparent to a huge number of the population as manufacturing and industry were hit hard by the two recessions – from which they never recovered, sparking civil unrest and rioting. And that’s all before 1983.

    The people who oppose Thatcher aren’t academics who got their pride hurt. They’re the people whose livelihoods, communities and families were just ended.

    Put it this way. Imagine Obama just decided that there would be no more farming in the US, because it’s cheaper to import. Resource goes into, say, Silicon Valley and Wall Street. All the midwesterners who have been farmers for generations, are out of work – but Obama just tells them to get jobs in Hi-Tech industries.

    Now you can argue all you like about whether this would be a good move for the economy at a macro scale – but you’re condemning a huge number of towns, families and people to poverty – and getting rid of one of a huge part of American cultural heriatage.

    I guess all I’m saying is that she did turn around the glum 70’s and pushed the economy in a new direction – but you can’t discount the cost of her doing so.

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  26. Hal_10000

    I’m not discounting those costs. In Berlinski’s book, she talks about entire towns that were destroyed by the closing of the mines. Nothing ever came back to those places. I realize that this is where the bulk of the anti-Thatcher sentiment comes from. But it seems that its leading lights — the spokesmen, the ones getting all the attention, were the leaders who kept losing to her, no? Maybe that’s a difference in US perception vs. UK perception. I seem to hear less from mining communities that were crushed and more from intellectuals who didn’t like Section 28.

    However, I will make one point on the recessions that followed Thatcher and happened immediately in this country as well. For twenty years, both the UK and the USA had pursued this chimera called the Phillips Curve, which said that you could minimize unemployment by keeping inflation high (with various Keynesian explanation for why this was). This did not work and both our countries were having nominal growth but real growth was slow and unemployment+inflation rising. The UK had the additional problem of 10% of the economy being nationalized (although huge subsidies were being giving to coal and steel in this country) and massive subsidies propping up unprofitable industries (or at least sections of them).

    A lot of people knew this system could not be sustained. But they were afraid to undo it because of the massive hangover that would result — hard recessions with spikes in unemployment. But it was a necessary pill to swallow. In the US, we recovered within a few years. In the UK, it took almost a decade.

    So, yes, I can see the Thatcher resentment and anger. And I do think there is legitimate point that they never did enough to help the people who lost their livelihoods (whose situation was, in the end, a product of government policy). But I also think some should be vented at her predecessors who decided that nationalized industries and zombie businesses were a good idea in the first place. In the long run, they didn’t do people any favors with that and — maybe this is my white collar showing — it still seems bizarre to me to prop an industry that involves people going deep into the earth to unprofitably destroy their lungs with coal dust.

    (And thanks for keeping me intellectually honest about this. We hear the Thatcher debate a little differently in the US, so getting a smart UK perspective is really nice!)

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  27. AlexInCT *

    I’m not discounting those costs. In Berlinski’s book, she talks about entire towns that were destroyed by the closing of the mines. Nothing ever came back to those places.

    This sort of sordid stuff has happened in the US as well. I remember touring some boonies in Michigan and being told entire towns had vanished from there when the evil automotive industry destroying the buggy whip one back in the day…..

    And speaking of coal, Obama & his cohorts are destroying that industry and any other energy related industry that isn’t run by one of his government subsidy whoring green energy bullshit companies, and yet, in this case the guy is a hero because he cares about the environment. Maybe you Brits are not smart enough to see how Thatcher was so ahead of her time when she took actions that saved Gaia from the evil coal miners?

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  28. AlexInCT *

    Oh, don’t worry, Alex. I’m sure Obama will come up with some subsidy to support the miners who lose their jobs.

    That’s because this new incarnation of “Liberul Jesus” no longer believes that you teach a man to fish, and set him up for life, but that what is best is to give him a government handout and the politicians are then set for life, Hal.

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  29. CM

    And I do think there is legitimate point that they never did enough to help the people who lost their livelihoods

    Glenda Jackson (“my” MP for 4 years) on Thatcher at the Parliamentary ‘Tribute’ session:

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  30. Mississippi Yankee

    Ol’ Glenda looks like she may have quite a bit of Orc in her. She certainly has their whiny, complaining demeanor.

    She kin to you CM?

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  31. CM

    She does have 2 Best Actress Oscars but I’m not sure either of them were for an Orc.

    She kin to you CM?

    Nah, I don’t believe she has any relatives here in Orcland.

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  32. Mississippi Yankee

    She DID NOT age well.

    From her Wiki page:
    Fame came with Jackson’s starring role in the controversial Women in Love (1969) for which she won her first Academy Award for Best Actress, and another controversial role as Tchaikovsky’s nymphomaniac wife in Ken Russell’s The Music Lovers added to her image of being prepared to do almost anything for her art.

    And what is politics but an enormous act?

    Aging movie star slams dead conservative politician. Yeah, get in line sister or should I say comradette?

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  33. Poosh

    but it was at the expense of a lot of people and a way of life.

    Boo hoo bloody COAL MINERS ffs. Oh, what? More mines were closed and just as many coal miners lost their job under the previous Labour leadership?

    It’s called progress. The fact that British companies were FORCED to buy these inefficient EXPENSIVE miners’ (who were held up by the tax payer) coal just shows how disgusting and deadly the power of the Unions were. Let’s all subsidise the horse and cart industry.

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  34. AlexInCT *

    Sad that the current US Leadership can’t even be bothered to send a cabinet member, let alone the POTUS to honor our chief ally during one of the most stressful times in this nation’s history.

    They sent someone to Chavez’ funeral, right? Now compare that to whom they are sending to Thatcher’s funeral. It tells an important story of whom the collectivists like/admire more. After all, evil Thatcher was instrumental in killing the Evil empire, and while they pretend to not like the USSR or belive the wrong side won, all these fucking statist progressive pricks hate the the US won the Cold War.

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  35. Hal_10000

    Actually, it looks like we are sending a slightly larger delegation to Thatcher’s funeral. But we should be sending the President.

    Clinton and both Bushes aren’t going either. Disgraceful all around.

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  36. Xetrov

    Bush I can see not going. He’s not exactly liked by a lot of people over there, and he appears to hate making things about him. Obama should be going. But he’s probably too busy hitting the links.

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  37. Poosh

    I can understand Bush not going, and it would be all the more troublesome if he did, sadly.

    I don’t mind the president not going either, as that just creates a lot more problems for security etc. But I’d expect some members of the current admin to represent the COUNTRY.

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  38. CM

    But I’d expect some members of the current admin to represent the COUNTRY.

    That is a little weird. He’s sending the Republican Secretaries of State – James Baker and George Shultz. I hear Kissinger and Cheney are also going.
    But then it seems only a few heads of state are confirmed – from Canada and Poland (don’t forget Poland). Anyone else?

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