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Connecticut Massacre

Holy fuck. 18 children dead. Just horrible, horrible. Open thread and I’ll post updates.

73 comments

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  1. Section8 says:

    Jesus fucking Christ.

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  2. salinger says:

    I’ve worked in this district. This is horrifying.

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  3. AlexInCT says:

    I am hearing the shooter was a 20 year old from Jersey and that he had a kid there. The math tells me that a 20 year old with a kid in kindergarten says something is seriously off about this person to begin with.

    Newington is a well off community even for CT. Lots of people from ESPN live there. Word is the gunman killed the principal too. No clue if he offed himself or was killed by someone else yet.

    What I do know is that the gun grabbers are now going to make it about the guns, and not about the fact this person was so many cards short of a full deck if he is willing to do something this dispicable.

    More details here.

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  4. blameme says:

    I really DO NOT want to get into a gun debate at this moment.

    Praying for those kids and families.

    I did read where someone was lead out of the woods in handcuffs and a rifle was found outside.

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  5. blameme says:

    How in the flying hell did my comment get a negative response? Would love to have someone actually explain that.

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  6. repmom says:

    blameme –

    I just logged in to ask that exact same question. No way that deserved a thumbs down.

    Kindergarten kids. Just heartbreaking. Beyond belief. Makes me shudder.

    I had to turn from The Today Show about an hour ago because the gun control discussions had already begun.

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  7. repmom says:

    Now they are saying the shooter’s mother has been found dead in her home, and that she was a teacher – or at least worked – at the school.

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  8. repmom says:

    And now his dad found dead as well.

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  9. blameme says:

    Thanks Repmom. I don’t understand any of this.

    And whoever downdinged that comment is a coward for not explaining why. Happy to have disagreements, but on such a non-aggressive post, it is hard to understand why someone feels the need to be an ass.

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  10. repmom says:

    Correction – His mom shot in her classroom, not home.

    And now they’re saying 20 children dead, between ages of 5 and 10, according to Pres. Obama, who had a hard time finishing that sentence in his press conference.

    Too emotional for this grandmother.

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  11. Kimpost says:

    Nice but very emotional by Obama. Fuck this is depressing… :(

    Edit: Our second largest news paper managed to out the wrong Ryan Lanza too. For a few minutes.

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  12. West Virginia Rebel says:

    Ironically the school reportedly had new safety measures.

    26 dead, shooter ID’d

    This is just unreal.
    West Virginia Rebel recently posted..Short PeopleMy Profile

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  13. Section8 says:

    So they caught his brother apparently? One thing they better not do is parade that fuck around like some sort of notorious celebrity. They should dump his ass in a cellar somewhere dark and alone and check back in 100 years like a time capsule. I’m almost sorry this other fuck died as it is just too easy of an out.

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  14. davidst says:

    If we need better gun control laws, China needs more knife control laws:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/14/china-knife-attack-school.html

    I can’t believe these two happened on the same day.

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  15. Thrill says:

    Worse than Columbine and more shocking than Virginia Tech. It’s like the sick, twisted fucks of the world just keep trying to outdo each other.

    I can’t even think of what possible words could even begin to express the sorrow I feel for all of the victims. It’s too much.

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  16. Hal_10000 says:

    You know, if I ran a TV network, I would set a rule on mass killings: we do not say this bastard’s name; we don’t show his picture; we don’t talk about his manifestos; we do not give him the infamy he craved. As far as we’re concerned, he has vanished from history. If we refer to him, it will be as “the Newton Child Murdering Fucker”

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  17. HARLEY says:

    My heart really goes out to the families…
    Dear fucking GOOD this is horrible… i have 2 children in that age group… all day as i listened to the news i had the shakes.. .
    What the fuck is wrong with people!
    The sick cowardly fuck that did this needs to be erased from all memory, records… AGH !
    CHILDREN.,. how the fuclkldammit

    sorry

    I seen reports that the class room that he targeted was where his mother worked….

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  18. Argive says:

    Looks like the Newtown Child Murdering Fucker’s brother hadn’t spoken with him since 2010 and is not suspected to have had any involvement in the massacre. The cops say he’s being very cooperative. Also looks like the NCMF suffered from some sort of personality disorder.

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  19. repmom says:

    Harley -

    No need to apologize. I think you expressed how we all feel.

    Totally unimaginable how anyone – no matter how sick or evil – could gun down innocent, precious little children like that.

    And how do the families handle it? Not sure their little bodies have any been moved from the classrooms yet.. God. It just doesn’t get any more horrible then this.

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  20. richtaylor365 says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  21. TheContrarian says:

    Being a parent really puts it in perspective. When you contemplate the sort of evil capable of doing such an unspeakable thing…it puts hate in your heart. Our little guy will be staying in our room tonight. I just wish I could watch over him always.

    Six substantial mass shootings in one year. That’s six people out of three hundred million, or about two one-hundred thousandths of one percent of the population.

    That’s all it takes.

    That’s how fragile society is. The social contract demands that 99.99999% of people not being mass murderers is insufficient to spare the wider society of being regularly terrorized and then screaming to curb its freedoms in the name of safety.

    You want to believe that our culture is generally sound – that we aren’t in some way breeding this evil. You want to believe they are just unpredictable random nutjobs – aberrations that could not have been foreseen. If not that, then you want some clear cause. Blame the gun laws. Blame the healthcare system. Blame video games. Whatever it is – blame that, pass a law, and then it’s all fixed!

    But it’s neither of those things. Usually there isn’t one simple root cause that we can point the finger at an fix with an act of congress. It isn’t that society’s hands are clean in creating these monsters either. The truth is much more complex. The truth is that it is a combination of hundreds of contributing factors, some too subtle to even trace, that help create monsters like this shooter. The truth is that, contributing factors aside, evil is real, and some people just are.

    But on the point of what is controllable – the contributing factors, I think that our culture is sick in a lot of ways. Thinking people notice all of the mendacity, the contradictions, the superficiality, the consumerism, the callousness, the lack of personal accountability – all of it stuffed down their throats by a cynical media, nihilistic entertainment industry, and corrupt political system.

    Some learn to distract themselves. Some join a cause and fight. Some choke on all of it.

    Freedom is expensive, especially for a society with substantial cultural problems. America is not the only country that allows people to own guns, yet a disproportionate amount of gun violence occurs here. Why? Because of our culture. We need to either improve society such that our freedoms don’t become a liability, or we need to accept that we aren’t good enough for freedom, and go about repealing the second amendment.

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  22. repmom says:

    The president seemed sincere to me. Made me cry. But, right now he’s the least of my concerns.

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  23. Mississippi Yankee says:

    Opening statement:

    I really DO NOT want to get into a gun debate at this moment.

    Faux confusion:

    How in the flying hell did my comment get a negative response? Would love to have someone actually explain that.

    For the record I just got here and DID NOT give you the ‘thumbs down. But as I pointed out above your leading statement did in fact bring it up first. Of course there are other reasons but I’ll let you figure them out.
    There’s a useful expression around here you might want to consider;
    “Don’t want shit, don’t start shit”

    One thing we both agree on is it was a horrible and senseless tragedy.

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  24. repmom says:

    Actually, MY, I believe Alex brought it up first.

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  25. Mississippi Yankee says:

    repmom actually you’re correct. Although that wasn’t the crux of Alex’s post. Much less his first declarative statement.

    And blameme DID ask for an explanation.

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  26. CM says:

    My condolences to you all.

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  27. AlexInCT says:

    Actually, MY, I believe Alex brought it up first.

    If you are referring to bringing it up here, then yes, you are correct repmom. I did that because I happened to be working from home today and was watching the local news, stunned this had happened again, and the fucking asshole reporter that was covering the story immediately blamed guns for this tragedy instead of the asshole that killed these poor people in cold blood, for whatever insane reason.

    The fact is that a slew of the gun grabbers out there are all trying to capitalize on this tragedy and these fucking assholes are all blaming the guns instead of the insane fuck that did the shooting. I think that the gun grabbers ignoring the fact that evil people exist is far more dangerous than the media encouraging other deranged people to do more of the same by giving these evil assholes committing atrocities air time. It is much easier to blame guns for the trouble than it is to admit that evil exists. These stupid politicians think they can do something about the guns, but know they can’t do anything about evil people. The problem is that what they do makes it a lot easier for evil people to do more of these things. Evil people don’t much worry about what the law says they are allowed to or not allowed to, after all.

    We absolutely should feel for and mourn these poor innocent victims. This is a horrific event. But lose sight of the fact that there are people that were ready to take advantage of this tragedy, even before it happened, and you do us all a disservice.

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  28. blameme says:

    But as I pointed out above your leading statement did in fact bring it up first. Of course there are other reasons but I’ll let you figure them out.
    There’s a useful expression around here you might want to consider;
    “Don’t want shit, don’t start shit”

    Don’t want shit, don’t make up shit would be more appropriate in your case wouldn’t it? I neither said it first nor made a big deal out of it. I just thought, for once, we could keep politics out of this and not have page long rants about the second amendment today.

    And blameme DID ask for an explanation.

    You at least got that part right.

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  29. blameme says:

    But lose sight of the fact that there are people that were ready to take advantage of this tragedy, even before it happened, and you do us all a disservice.

    It’s probably best I don’t read any more of this shit.

    One day. Just one. One post on one blog out the entire internet universe. But nope, we need to jump right in on those gun grabbers or we are doing a disservice. I must have a lack of being a patriot I guess.

    I know they will leverage this. That battle can start tomorrow. Having one blog post on the day that this happened NOT inject politics apparently teeters us on the edge of losing the second amendment.

    I am too angry, frustrated to keep this particular discussion going anymore. Downding the fuck away and tell us who would like just a little tact that we are doing this terrible disservice. That will show those lefties.

    Pfft.

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  30. repmom says:

    Forget politics tonight.

    20 families don’t have a child tonight. A child they had this morning. A child who probably has gifts under the family Christmas tree at this moment. Maybe “Santa Claus” hidden in the closet. That child is still lying dead in a school room, being “processed”.

    Say a prayer for them and all the families, and hold your own kids (or Grandkids) tight.

    Start a new post tomorrow on the political issues of it all.

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  31. CM says:

    Maybe “Santa Claus” hidden in the closet.

    Damn, I hope he can escape in time. ;-)

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  32. repmom says:

    First good laugh I’ve had today. Thanks, CM.

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  33. Mississippi Yankee says:

    I just thought, for once, we could keep politics out of this and not have page long rants about the second amendment today.

    Yes we could tell by the CAPS you used

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  34. Poosh says:

    Freedom is expensive, especially for a society with substantial cultural problems.

    I think this, coupled with the issues of mental health and how the civilian population deals and can recognise it, is, and always has, been the issue here. I did some quick research and it turns out massacres in modern Britain were always very rare, and that the recent 1997 gun ban (a reaction to our own school shooting, Tennis Player Andy Murray was a survivor) didn’t really change much.

    Note today a similar thing happened in China, 22 kids carved up. It’s one thing to shoot someone with a gun. It’s another to actually plunge a blade into a kid. We’re dealing with mental health and cultural issues, and the sooner people move away from from 2nd amendment distractions the better.

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  35. TheContrarian says:

    Stood in firelight, sweltering. Bloodstain on chest like map of violent new continent. Felt cleansed. Felt dark planet turn under my feet and knew what cats know that makes them scream like babies in night. Looked at sky through smoke heavy with human fat and God was not there. The cold, suffocating dark goes on forever and we are alone. Live our lives, lacking anything better to do. Devise reason later. Born from oblivion; bear children, hell-bound as ourselves, go into oblivion. There is nothing else. Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It’s us. Only us. Streets stank of fire. The void breathed hard on my heart, turning its illusions to ice, shattering them. Was reborn then, free to scrawl own design on this morally blank world. Was Rorschach

    ~ From Watchmen by Alan Moore

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  36. Hal_10000 says:

    20 families don’t have a child tonight. A child they had this morning. A child who probably has gifts under the family Christmas tree at this moment. Maybe “Santa Claus” hidden in the closet. That child is still lying dead in a school room, being “processed”.

    Say a prayer for them and all the families, and hold your own kids (or Grandkids) tight.

    Thank you repmom. I was just thinking about that myself. Those wounds may scab over but they will never heal. My grandmother lost two children to stillbirth (rh factor; it almost claimed my dad too). To her dying day, half a century later, she would still talk about them. And she never even got to meet them. I know parents who still mourn miscarriages. I can’t imagine what it’s like to lose a child who you’ve known and seen such a bright future for.

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  37. blameme says:

    Yes we could tell by the CAPS you used

    So, since you couldn’t make up something I said, you decided to focus on the gammar. I used caps as a request to please not inject politics. That’s all.

    Weak sauce MY. You were doing much better when you put words in my mouth. At least then you had a convincing argument.

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  38. Poosh says:

    I’m with you TheContrarian. It might be just godamn genetics, but something in both America and China is producing men who can happily violate what is probably one of the only two moral absolutes that can be found without appealing to metaphysics, imo. Killing adults is one thing, but children? That is the the most abhorrent thing, to kill real living children right in front of you, to actually see them die. Yet in America and now China it is regular, shall we say? Note yesterday’s attack on the Chinese school was merely one of a series of recent attacks on school children.

    Again, one of the only 2 modern massacres in the UK with firearms was, also, in a school. But in the UK there seems to be a very short list of these massacres, this century.

    It’s true, schools are targeted because they have the least chance of anyone fighting back or defending themselves, but there is something else at play.

    - I don’t feel the need to give some sort of redundant condolence, unless you’re the actual parents.

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  39. HARLEY says:

    I am probably gonna catch shit for this, but fuckit…
    As we have “civilized” as a people, and laid down more and more social programs to ensure that the , shall we say “weaker links” in our society survive to the age of procreation, and beyond, we allow more and more errors to build up in the gene pool over time…. more error code, code noise what ever you want to call it is found in found in our society… to be blunt , those that would have been culled my natural selection, have reproduced, and thereby added to the population more and more errors in the over all code.

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  40. Kimpost says:

    If the nanny state was the reason Sweden would have these shootings every day…

    I don’t think think that it’s about genetics. It’s cultural. And a huge fail for a society that should be able to spot these people before committing mass murder. It’s not an easy task, though. We all want to live in free societies, based on individual freedom and personal integrity. But still, too many shootings.

    Gun violence is going down in America. That has been the trend for 20-30 years now, so perhaps some things are being done right? I don’t know. And then all gun violence aren’t the same. You don’t address gang violence with the same strategy, as you do single-nut violence.

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  41. Mississippi Yankee says:

    It might be just godamn genetics, but something in both America and China is producing men who can happily violate what is probably one of the only two moral absolutes that can be found without appealing to metaphysics, imo.

    Poosh,
    The guy in Norway (Europe) could be on your list with China and America. I don’t think crazy or evil respects national boundaries.

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  42. repmom says:

    This just gets harder and harder to bear the more info we get. He just blew those kids away. 6 and 7 years old. I can’t stop crying.

    I can’t imagine how the parents can handle it. I expect some suicides in the future. A strong faith, and other children would be the only thing to keep me going. And I’m not sure my faith is that strong.

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  43. repmom says:

    What’s with the moderation of my comment?

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  44. CM says:

    - I don’t feel the need to give some sort of redundant condolence, unless you’re the actual parents.

    Well I did. But thanks for trying to belittle it. Always so classy.

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  45. CM says:

    Gun violence is going down in America. That has been the trend for 20-30 years now, so perhaps some things are being done right?

    It correlates with fewer houses having guns.

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  46. repmom says:

    I gotta agree with you, CM. I don’t see why Poosh felt the need to type that comment. There was no call for it, IMO.

    I thought you were doing your best to be respectful of the situation.

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  47. CM says:

    I thought you were doing your best to be respectful of the situation.

    Thanks.
    Although how hard is it? It should be natural.
    Unfortunately there are people out there that can’t see past their own nose no matter what the situation.

    I just had a comment moderated too. It had a link in it. Perhaps for some reason any post with a link is now moderated (some glitch has occurred)?

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  48. repmom says:

    Yes, CM, it should be natural. Absolutely.

    My moderated comment had no link. Very strange.

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  49. Poosh says:

    The guy in Norway (Europe) could be on your list with China and America.

    That wouldn’t count really. America and Japan have a pattern of these type of mass murders. Norway was a one off.. Interestingly I’m just reading about Germany and Germany’s school shootings as well (regulation did NOT, in Germany’s case, stop future school massacres). I am wondering about the psychology behind school shootings now, it can’t purely be because they are “safe zones” for the killers.

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  50. Poosh says:

    I don’t see why Poosh felt the need to type that comment. There was no call for it, IMO.

    And what good would it have done if I had written “I am so sorry America, my heart goes out to you all” does it really go out to you all? It goes without saying I am sorry and upset about it. I was upset and sorry about the Batman shootings. And every other massacre that happens. I don’t see the point, for me, personally. to offer condolences to people who weren’t actually affected. If you actually want to know, yes, I’m upset and feel for America, but so what? Do I really need to type that out? (I realise I have just typed that out) I typed the above so sensible people would appreciate why I bypassed the usual ‘platitudes’ and cut straight to the chase. I typed it so I didn’t sound completely callous and hoped people would understand.

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  51. repmom says:

    Poosh -

    No comment would have been fine, I think.

    Your comment seemed like a criticism of CM’s condolence comment. To me, at least. And apparently CM.

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  52. Mississippi Yankee says:

    I just had a comment moderated too. It had a link in it. Perhaps for some reason any post with a link is now moderated (some glitch has occurred)?

    My moderated comment had no link. Very strange.

    “They came and moderated the comments of repmom but it was not MY comment so I said nothing.
    Then they came and moderated a comment of CM but his comments aren’t MY comments so I said nothing…”

    Is “blue” back on staff?

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  53. Poosh says:

    Your comment seemed like a criticism of CM’s condolence comment. To me, at least. And apparently CM.

    Well it wasn’t. I skip everything he types.

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  54. Mississippi Yankee says:

    CM,
    How DO you make those graphs? Logic tells me it has to be home-made as the number of people in the U.S. has nearly doubled since 1959. And gun sales have been historically through the roof since the Clinton gun ban ended over a decade ago.

    USA in 1959 = 177,829,628
    USA in 2012 = 312,780,968

    Nice work tho… did you create it in Excel®?

    BTW we DO NOT talk gun control on this thread. It causes blameme to become fanny-sore.

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  55. repmom says:

    For the record, MY, that thumbs up was meant as a thumbs down.

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  56. Mississippi Yankee says:

    For the record, MY, that thumbs up was meant as a thumbs down.

    For which comment? Evidently we’re keeping score. BTW, I don’t have the ability to determine who thumbs up or down, but I’ll bet someone does…

    And for the life of me why would 2 people down-vote a rewording of a Martin Niemöller quote?

    The original kinda fit the moderation that you and CM spoke of and I was trying to show some solidarity. Something I don’t often do with CM.
    Here is the original quote. It has to do with the NAZI take over of Germany in the 1930′s:

    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.

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  57. Biggie G says:

    I am wondering about the psychology behind school shootings now, it can’t purely be because they are “safe zones” for the killers.

    This shooting is not like most of the school shootings that we have had in this country. It is more like the Norway or Colorado shootings. All of the big school shootings in the past few years have been students coming into the school and getting revenge on classmates. This is the first one I can think of where someone came in from outside the school. We will probably never know the reason why this happened, but I don’t think that this is some bullied kid who is taking it out on the beautiful people.

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  58. Poosh says:

    Sometimes it really is evil, perhaps.

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  59. CM says:

    Well it wasn’t. I skip everything he types.

    There we go repmom, it was pure coincidence.

    BTW we DO NOT talk gun control on this thread. It causes blameme to become fanny-sore.

    I made no mention of gun control, so not sure what you’re talking about.

    Sometimes it really is evil, perhaps.

    That always sounds like such a cop-out IMO.

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  60. CM says:

    CM,
    How DO you make those graphs? Logic tells me it has to be home-made as the number of people in the U.S. has nearly doubled since 1959. And gun sales have been historically through the roof since the Clinton gun ban ended over a decade ago.

    USA in 1959 = 177,829,628
    USA in 2012 = 312,780,968

    Nice work tho… did you create it in Excel®?

    It’s not rocket surgery MY – fewer U.S. gun owners own more guns.

    The number of households owning guns has declined from almost 50% in 1973 to just over 32% in 2010…

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  61. ilovecress says:

    Maybe it is pointless – but I do want to pass on my condolences. It may not help, but it’s what people do.

    I think that if you read this thread, you’ll see that a lot of people were actually affected. Because the fact that it was in CT and not in anyone elses neighbourhood was down to dumb luck and nothing else. And that is frickin scary.

    It’s like there is this gnawing fear that all parents have, but we never let it up to the surface because our complete helplessness in the situation makes it too hard to deal with. And then it actually happens, reminding us all that it is actually possible, and it happened to someone just like us.

    Since I became a Dad, the world seems to have become a smaller, scarier and more dangerous place. For the first time in my dirty stinkin liberal life, I understand the desire to sleep with a firearm under my pillow, and woe betide anyone that even attempts to break into my house.

    But I also understand the impulse to blame (the lack of) gun control regulations. It’s completely natural to try and focus on ‘the thing that would have prevented this’ – we need to be able to feel that this wasn’t completely random, and it could have been prevented, and that we can prevent it in the future. Some will focus on Gun Contol, some will focus on mental healthcare, some on video games, and others will find their own way of rationalising it.

    But it’s all a way of our brains trying to deal with the knowledge that this happened to some people who look a lot like us, in a neighbourhood that looks a lot like ours, and the fact it didn’t happen to us is pure dumb luck.

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  62. CM says:

    As usual, well said ilovecress.
    I don’t see it as a platitude at all. If something truly awful happened here I would certainly genuinely appreciate any sort of compassion expressed by others, especially from (during the Christchurch earthquakes I know a lot of people took a lot of strength and heart from the outpouring of sympathy and support from all over the world, not to mention the USAR support on the ground). As ilovecress says, it’s what people do. And many people appreciate it, because it’s something positive and can be reassuring. As cliched and cringe-inducing as it might sound, it’s really a signal of shared humanity. Which, in this case, is the exact opposite of the shooting.

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  63. repmom says:

    Yes, well said, icress. Thanks for the kind words.

    The last two day I’ve watched coverage all day, and as I stated last night, extremely emotional. Today I wouldn’t allow myself to watch, instead watching holiday movies while wrapping Christmas gifts. Of course, then I felt guilty that I was having a pleasant day, while they were still suffering.

    I will not listen to the President’s message. Not because it’s Obama, but because I won’t be able to handle it.

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  64. CM says:

    Plenty of people are pretty emotional about it here, even though we’re so far away. It’s because, despite our differences, we share sufficient common bonds that distance doesn’t particularly matter at times like this.

    My kids are 4 and 6. I haven’t watched too much of it, and I’m not one to let things affect me too much (plenty of years as a kids building up various walls).

    I just saw this quote and I like it:

    “When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, “Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.” To this day, especially in times of “disaster,” I remember my mother’s words and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers – so many caring people in this world.”

    ~ Fred Rogers

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  65. briggie says:

    I am wondering about the psychology behind school shootings now, it can’t purely be because they are “safe zones” for the killers.

    More sociology than psychology, but might have the answers you seek nonetheless.

    (Warning: Very very long.)

    http://sociological-eye.blogspot.com/2012/09/clues-to-mass-rampage-killers-deep.html

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  66. Mississippi Yankee says:

    It’s not rocket surgery MY – fewer U.S. gun owners own more guns.

    CM, from your link:

    Gun ownership in America is declining. This is the unavoidable conclusion from new,
    comprehensive, national data spanning nearly 40 years contained in the General Social Survey (GSS)
    conducted by the National Opinion Research Center (NORC) at the University of Chicago.

    Except for the U.S. Census, the GSS is
    the most frequently analyzed source of information in the social sciences…It is the only survey that has tracked the
    opinions of Americans over an extended period of time.

    And were these “surveys” obtained by random calls?… or voluntarily mailed back forms? Or am I the only one that misleads pollsters?
    Does it account for all of the guns that were passed down to the next generation? Which seems was a substantial number in 1959 per this survey.

    Can you see how a rational person could question these results? No I imagine not.
    Now I’m not questioning your honesty just your source “National Opinion Research Center (NORC) at the University of Chicago” ? Wasn’t that home to Bell Ayers and BHO at one time?

    Sorry, logic, hundreds of news stories to the contrary and the near doubling of the US population since 1959 beats agenda driven academic hearsay every day imo.

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  67. Mississippi Yankee says:

    CM, from your CNN article:

    The false perception that there are more gun owners has helped bolster a political narrative, emboldened the National Rifle Association and left politicians worried about losing support, gun policy experts say.

    “…It gives them more power to say they are representing more gun owners and there are more gun owners,” said Hemenway.

    Sugarmann agreed. “There is a myth pushed by the gun industry, the NRA and the trade associations for gun makers that gun ownership is up,” he said. “[That] there are more gun owners, when the opposite is true, gun ownership is declining.”

    I rescind my thought of your honesty. The “agenda” is to convince congress that the NRA represents fewer folks than it actually does.
    Well our bro-mance was never gonna last anyway.

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  68. CM says:

    I rescind my thought of your honesty.

    Damn, and you tried so hard too. So very disappointing.

    Well our bro-mance was never gonna last anyway.

    I enjoyed it while it lasted.

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  69. Mississippi Yankee says:

    We’ll always have Bar Refaeli

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  70. CM says:

    Haha, brilliant. I was racking my brain trying to complete the “We’ll always have…..” sentence and I almost went with Rachel Weisz, but for some reason I withdrew (the safest method). But then you went and raised the…..no I just can’t do it again. And just for the record, I prefer Kate Upton’s Cat Daddy over her Dougie Dance.

    Personally I don’t care what your politics are……if you’re willing to have a laugh then that’s really all that matters ;-)

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  71. CM says:

    Sorry, logic, hundreds of news stories to the contrary and the near doubling of the US population since 1959 beats agenda driven academic hearsay every day imo.

    Everyone’s favourite has a piece up on this….and all the lines on the relevant graph have trended down.
    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/in-gun-ownership-statistics-partisan-divide-is-sharp/

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  72. Mississippi Yankee says:

    Dear Linkmiester.

    Please tell me WHO these pollsters ask these questions of. And this is the same company (GSS) that you linked to before in this post. Only now the story is being carried by the absolutely neutral non-partisan New York Times. So on that note:

    Let’s take a poll right here. Even considering that some folks may not want to admit it on a public forum.
    You, cress, kimpost and Poosh must abstain because you are not in an American household. Sorry GSS criteria.
    Just off the top of my head I can think of 4 people who have admitted to exercising their 2nd amendment rights in just the past few days.

    I get the impression that you truly believe that if one repeats the lie over and over again it will become “a” truth.

    The Big Lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so “colossal” that no one would believe that someone “could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.” Hitler asserted the technique was used by Jews to unfairly blame Germany’s loss in World War I on German Army officer Erich Ludendorff.

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  73. CM says:

    They are from national exit polls. The usual practice is to assume the polling is robust unless there’s a good reason why it wouldn’t be. In this case, why would people lie about this question? Why would you assume there wasn’t enough polling to provide a statistically acceptable result? And, more importantly, why would they lie during one time period but not in another (after all, the comparison is to how the same question was answered previously)?

    I get the impression that you truly believe that if one repeats the lie over and over again it will become “a” truth.

    What lie? Is that like the “lie” told by Silver and pollsters that Obama was favourite to win?
    When do you start to push back against the lies that lead to you believe these are the lies?

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