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Unexpectedly, bad economic news!

That’s the result of a Gallup poll that shows and is titled U.S. Small-Business Owners Pessimistic Post-Election:

CETON, NJ — U.S. small-business owners are pessimistic post-election, with the Wells Fargo/Gallup Small Business Index plunging to -11 in November from 17 in July. This is the most pessimistic that owners have been about their operating environment since July 2010, when the index stood at -28.

What the hell could these small business owners be thinking that caused such an incredible shift, 28 points is a serious wowser, in confidence, huh? Don’t they know “The Won” won the election and that the healing can continue?

The left might be surprised by this outcome, or maybe not surprised, but disinclined to report on it, but people like me are not. The producers are all realizing they are going to get fleeced, with no end in sight, because the takers now outnumber the makers.

Then again, it could just be that these idiots that work for a living and are seen as easy marks by class warriors on the look out for money to buy votes with small business owners did not get this warning from NASA.

14 comments

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  1. TxAg94 says:

    I like how Geitner trotted out today and spoke on raising taxes on “those making over $200,000.” Somewhere we lowered the bar by $50,000 from the rhetoric heretofore. Boehner gave in on the $250,000 threshold so I guess they figure they might as well see if they can get him to cave on even more.

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  2. AlexInCT says:

    Hey TxAg94,

    They will have to raise taxes on everyone making more than $25K, and then by at least 30-50% to come up with enough money to just close the current spending gap. That $250K threshold as you pointed out was just a new lowering of the bar: it used to be millionaires before they dropped it to that.

    That $50K drop to $200K as the new threshold is just the first shift of many to come. Eventually it will end up being much, much lower. They are going to raise taxes on everyone because they need to come up with a couple of trillion annually to cover the gap we would have when they jack spending as they want to.

    Now Stogy can show up and tell me this is all ODS on my part and that the economy is rocking and Team Obama has a plan that actually saves us all. Heh, comedy gold that fella.

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  3. Seattle Outcast says:

    Geitner is pretty much the definition of a really smart fucking idiot. I’ve been watching since he diddled with Keynesian theories during the Wall Street Meltdown – as deluded as he was then that he did anything but harm, he apparently is one of those fools that believes that the only reason Keynesian efforts never work is that nobody has ever dumped enough of tax dollars into them.

    Nobody has ever found an instance of actual working Keynesian theory successfully implemented, or people that will behave as needed (short-term economic suicide for the greater long-term good to be realized by people the individual has never met). Yet our resident commie/troll will insist that it “works” all the time. Resident commie/troll will now identify him/her self.

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  4. CM says:

    It’s me, it’s me!

    Hello everybody! *WAVE*

    Yep, I’m just like Nate Silver – wrong, wrong, wrong. Even when I never even said it. ;-)

    Meanwhile, and completely unrelated of course, if we’d just give unrestricted laissez faire economics a fair shot……..

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  5. Dave D says:

    My guess:

    The final break for the category of the “Rich” that need to pay “their fiar share” will be something close to 49% of the population. Let’s wait and see……..

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  6. CM says:

    Here we go Alex, Americans are “more confident than they were throughout much of the year” and their views about finding a quality job “have not been this positive since March 2008“.

    Let me guess – the average American is an idiot and believes the LSM, whereas small business owners are geniuses.

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  7. AlexInCT says:

    Here we go Alex, Americans are “more confident than they were throughout much of the year”

    Here is some pertinent text from your link:

    WASHINGTON, D.C. — Gallup’s U.S. Economic Confidence Index was -15 for the week ending Nov. 25, unchanged from the week prior. Americans remain less confident than they were just before the election, but still more confident than they were throughout much of the year.

    That sounds to me like Gallup is going out of its way to paint lack of confidene as good, because a really bad number is slightly less bad this time around. Sounds like more of the same politically motivated bullshit we have been hearing about how the economy was just about to turn the corner soon, for the last 4 years, to me. Heh. I am far more confident that they can cure my stage 4 cancer, because the treatment has made my life expectancy jump from a month to two! Fucking stupid.

    BTW CM, I wonder how many of these Americans are employers? Besides, they can think whatever they want. When the employers – and have no doubt that small business owners are the biggest employers in this country by far, are not only not hiring, but actually laying off – I will be here to tell you “I told you so”. I for one am not one of these deluded fools that thinks things are getting better.

    and their views about finding a quality job “have not been this positive since March 2008“.

    Heh, are you serious? How about looking at numbers from some other year? I am sure they had the same results in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Every year was going to be better than 2008 where they shed millions of jobs. That weak claim is like saying that since 9-11 wasn’t as catastrophic as Hiroshima, 9-11 is a good thing. DUH!

    I still know way too many people that tell you they are trapped in shitty jobs or can’t find work at all, and they are all very qualified and hard working people. And I used to get between 10 and 20 calls a week from prospective employers before 2008. I am now getting one to three on average. The funny thing is that at least one is for a job in DC.

    Epic fail CM. Your weak Jedi mind trick doesn’t work on me.

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  8. Nexus says:

    The producers are all realizing they are going to get fleeced, with no end in sight, because the takers now outnumber the makers.
    Perhaps some shrugging is in order…?

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  9. CM says:

    That sounds to me like Gallup is going out of its way to paint lack of confidene as good, because a really bad number is slightly less bad this time around.

    Looks to me like context, as opposed to cherry picking. When context doesn’t paint the picture you like, you call it “politically motivated bullshit”. Same old then.

    When the employers – and have no doubt that small business owners are the biggest employers in this country by far, are not only not hiring, but actually laying off – I will be here to tell you “I told you so”. I for one am not one of these deluded fools that thinks things are getting better.

    The argument is not about whether they are laying off, or not hiring, but why. You pretend we know why, but have nothing to support it.
    In reality only 3% of small businesses would be affected by the proposed tax increases. And there is the good argument that the increases encourage more investment in the businesses because the increases are to personal tax, which small business owners pay only after business expenses are taken out. Rather than pay the additional tax, it makes sense that they’d spend that money on their business instead.

    Heh, are you serious?

    Yes, deadly serious but I didn’t link to the right page.Here it is:
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/158972/americans-best-job-climate-financial-crisis.aspx

    How about looking at numbers from some other year? I am sure they had the same results in 2009, 2010, and 2011. Every year was going to be better than 2008 where they shed millions of jobs. That weak claim is like saying that since 9-11 wasn’t as catastrophic as Hiroshima, 9-11 is a good thing. DUH!

    What’s that, you don’t like cherry picking now?
    Um, no, “views about finding a quality job have not been this positive since March 2008″ inherently means that they didn’t get the same results in 2009, 2010 and 2011.

    I still know way too many people that tell you they are trapped in shitty jobs or can’t find work at all, and they are all very qualified and hard working people.

    No doubt. I know nobody that would dispute that. Doesn’t excuse laziness in presenting your information.

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  10. AlexInCT says:

    Looks to me like context, as opposed to cherry picking. When context doesn’t paint the picture you like, you call it “politically motivated bullshit”. Same old then.

    Oh, that gave me one heck of a good laugh, CM. Bullshit from the LSM, which no longer even pretends to be objective, is context, but me pointing that out that it is bullshit or that they are not even mentioning the real reasons, that’s cherry picking! Fucking P-R-I-C-E-L-E-S-S!

    The argument is not about whether they are laying off, or not hiring, but why.

    They are not hiring, many are laying off, and the reason is blatant: too much chaos and the obvious fact that they see the economy going south with 4 more years of the same as the last 4.

    In reality only 3% of small businesses would be affected by the proposed tax increases.

    Really? Where did you get that number? CBO porjections? Heh!

    And there is the good argument that the increases encourage more investment in the businesses because the increases are to personal tax, which small business owners pay only after business expenses are taken out.

    So you pretending to understand businesses now? If I recall correctly, there is also a capital gains increase. Maybe I am stupid but I think profit = capital gains. There is also the problem that higher income taxes affects the money customers have to spend. You are not going to try to convince me that rich people don’t spend much ayway, so if they have even less it won’t matter a bit, are you?

    Rather than pay the additional tax, it makes sense that they’d spend that money on their business instead.

    Except for the capital gains rates hitting their profits, less money being spent and increased overall cost of bnusiness due to taxes hitting their income, right? This is the hight of nonsense to try and pretend to make the case that higher taxes encourage business investments. Yeah, maybe overseas where they don’t get screwed.

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  11. CM says:

    Oh, that gave me one heck of a good laugh, CM. Bullshit from the LSM, which no longer even pretends to be objective, is context, but me pointing that out that it is bullshit or that they are not even mentioning the real reasons, that’s cherry picking! Fucking P-R-I-C-E-L-E-S-S!

    Gallup is now part of the LSM? Since when did that happen (must have been very recently given their polling was such a massive outlier to Romney’s advantage)? And why are you quoted from them then?

    They are not hiring, many are laying off, and the reason is blatant: too much chaos and the obvious fact that they see the economy going south with 4 more years of the same as the last 4.

    You inadvertantly linked to it in the other thread Alex – likely austerity measures as a result of the fiscal cliff. Small businesses will be hit far harder by drop in demand than by tax increases.
    The economy has improved over the last four years. Not as fast as many had hoped, but that doesn’t equate to going backwards.

    Really? Where did you get that number? CBO porjections? Heh!

    Joint Committee on Taxation
    No projections needed.

    So you pretending to understand businesses now?

    You’re pretending you don’t?

    If I recall correctly, there is also a capital gains increase. Maybe I am stupid but I think profit = capital gains.

    Before you claim it, maybe go away and come back with the facts. Just a thought.

    There is also the problem that higher income taxes affects the money customers have to spend.

    Depends on who is being taxed and what the change is. Analysis shows that tax changes at the top make an statistically insignificant change in economy growth, whereas changes to the bottom and to the middle class result in a much larger boost to the economy. Not all tax changes are created equally. You can target them according to what you’re looking to achieve.

    You are not going to try to convince me that rich people don’t spend much ayway, so if they have even less it won’t matter a bit, are you?

    It’s whether they spend their tax savings that matters. But even then, it doesn’t appear that it has any measurable effect.

    Except for the capital gains rates hitting their profits, less money being spent and increased overall cost of bnusiness due to taxes hitting their income, right?

    Again, you should come back when you’ve worked out the capital gains thing. Then we can discuss it, otherwise it’s just another of those Alex Facts.

    This is the hight of nonsense to try and pretend to make the case that higher taxes encourage business investments. Yeah, maybe overseas where they don’t get screwed.

    Again, you’re taking something specific and logical and setting it aside and instead making a vague conclusion in an attempt to dismiss it.

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  12. CM says:

    “Almost all of the stimulative effect of tax cuts,” Zidar found, “results from tax cuts for the bottom 90 percent. A one percent of GDP tax cut for the bottom 90 percent results in 2.7 percentage points of GDP growth over a two-year period. The corresponding estimate for the top 10 percent is 0.13 percentage points and is insignificant statistically.”

    http://blogs.reuters.com/taxbreak/2012/09/12/which-tax-cuts-stimulate-the-economy/

    If true, which gives you more bang for your tax cut buck?
    Or does ideology trump results?

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  13. AlexInCT says:

    If true, which gives you more bang for your tax cut buck?
    Or does ideology trump results?

    What’s your point, CM? I sure hope you are not trying to make the idiotic case that I am saying I want tax cuts only for the rich, because I have never said anything of the sort. I want everyone to have tax cuts. The only people that want to change tax policy for a specific small niche group, in this case the rich again, are you collectivists. Boosh’s cuts targeted everyone. The only problem I had with the Boosh cuts was the group of people that stopped paying taxes altogether. That was a dumb move. When people have no skin in the game they don’t have any compunction making others suffer more.

    And I certainly hope you are not trying to make the case that we can go ahead and fleece the rich since tax cuts to them don’t really mean much anyway. That is beyond idiotic, because you again ignore that in a bad economy they are the top investors. The fact is that even Team Obama knows their plans to hike taxes are going to hammer the economy.

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  14. CM says:

    What’s your point, CM?

    That there is analysis which shows that providing tax cuts for the rich has a statistically insignificant impact on economic growth.

    The only people that want to change tax policy for a specific small niche group, in this case the rich again, are you collectivists. Boosh’s cuts targeted everyone.

    You’re missing the point.
    Obama argued during the campaign that he wanted to expire the cuts for the rich, and keep them for everyone else. Bush’s cuts gave the rich a massive cut in dollar terms, but put very little back in the pocked of the rest. It wasn’t targetted, as Hal pointed out.

    And I certainly hope you are not trying to make the case that we can go ahead and fleece the rich since tax cuts to them don’t really mean much anyway. That is beyond idiotic, because you again ignore that in a bad economy they are the top investors. The fact is that even Team Obama knows their plans to hike taxes are going to hammer the economy.

    It’s a fact that additional tax for the rich doesn’t have the same impact as additional tax for the rest. It’s inarguable.
    But you know best Alex. Everyone else is apparently an idiot, even though you’ve gotten nowhere over a number of different threads.

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