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Obama Wins and Plots Revenge

If you’re reading to find some rah-rah encouragement or a “silver lining”, well, I don’t have any. I’m also short on bitter tears and angry rhetoric. Sorry to disappoint everyone on both sides of the partisan divide.

I posted a song that expressed my feeling overall about the election result in 2008, back on the VO. It was “Who’s Gonna Save Us?” by the Living End. They say, “Who’s gonna unite us?/Who’s gonna divide us?” As it turns out, the answer to their questions was respectively “Nobody” and “Everybody”.

Continuing that tradition, here is my post-election song for 2012.

Maybe it’s sour grapes, but I have long felt that no matter who would win the 2012 election, it was too late to reverse the economic catastrophe this country is facing and probably has been since Obama blew it with the Stimulus. Now that Obama has won, I don’t feel as bad about the fact that we have this doom looming. The American people have chosen that fate. As I’ve been saying over the past week, it’s Obama who is now holding the bag of shit that’s going to burst. It’s only fair since 1/3 of the shit in there is his.

I defied the polls and got burned. Again. A slow learner, I guess. We can dissect what happened as more information comes in, but I have to say I’m still surprised. Romney ran a good campaign and Obama had nothing to run on. The American electorate, in their inexplicable way, have chosen to preserve the status quo (Democrat President and Senate, Republican House) that has paralyzed the federal government for the last two years even though they should know full well that the fiscal cliff and debt ceiling fights are coming. Obama failed in his first term at uniting Americans. The election proves that it’s only more divided, but still a bit in his favor.

God damn it, something should have given there. I have absolutely zero idea what message the American people have sent. Why did Obama deserve re-election? What is he supposed to do now? What is the House supposed to do? They’ve all been rewarded for partisan point-scoring while accomplishing jack shit.

This is definitely one for the books: Nobody has a mandate or even a plan to carry out with that mandate. Why in the fuckity fuck did we even have an election, really? I’m not angry or even anguished today. The 2008 loss was crushing and broke my heart but this is just…stupid.

Can it be that we really do have a Democratic majority in the US? I mean, Obama lost independents, based on the pre-election polls. He ran a negative, divisive campaign. He was totally focused on turnout from his liberal base. He converted no McCain voters to his side (seriously: I don’t think he got a single person) and lost states that he’d won in 2008. He was repudiated firmly in the midterm election of 2010 and probably will be again in 2014. The GOP had its highest party ID in the history of presidential polling coming into this election.

And he still won.

I don’t want to point fingers anywhere just yet, but I can’t see any sense or wisdom in these results. It’s like the Casey Anthony verdict of election results. People happily voted for a ridiculous outcome and can’t really tell you why they did it.

As I see it, the status quo was chosen and embraced. People turned out in massive numbers, this time to prevent change. Neither side has anything to offer and no need to compromise with the other. We’re sleepwalking into something really, really bad and seem to be pretty copacetic about it.

Half of the electorate still doesn’t understand that we’re in a crisis period that is waiting to gain strength. A paralyzed government guarantees that it will. This is not something I look forward to, even on “I told you so grounds.” Obama insisted on putting off the debt ceiling and taxes until after Election Day and he got it. But I don’t think it occurred to him that he was simply postponing having to deal with the exact same fight as before, now arguably worse for his side.

So yeah, I ignored what the pollsters were showing me. I thought that the American people were ready to come to terms with our fiscal and economic problems and would recognize that Obama is obviously not up to the job. I was wrong. Call it misplaced optimism on my part.

After the 2004 election, Michael Moore curled up into his bed and all but wept hysterically with his boxers twisted up his fat, smelly crack for a couple of days as the pizza boxes and Faygo bottles piled up around him. Got that visual in your head? Good. Don’t do that shit.

I’m going to finish this post and go back to work with dignity. We’re not a bunch of libtards who base our happiness on elections are we? We don’t blame our own difficulties and setbacks on larger forces beyond our control, do we? Of course not. Had the other side lost, they’d have burned a couple of blocks of real estate and thrown temper tantrums to one degree or another. Not us. Nothing is settled yet.

We’ve lost an election, but not our country. I don’t know what “revenge” Obama and his people have in mind now, but our own will be to continue resisting his class warfare, statism, and attempts to tear this country apart along every line imaginable. Our revenge will also be Liberty’s.

Stick with us here as we document it all. And go to work, assholes.

80 comments

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  1. InsipiD says:

    That sounds about like what I feel. If we, as a group, are stupid enough to elect a president like this one, perhaps American exceptionalism is gone. Maybe it’s just taking a brain-fart vacation, like electing FDR for four terms. Either way, I know I’ll survive. I’ll be watching this closely and waiting for 2016. I sure hope that the Supreme Court gets good health care.

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  2. mikedomi39 says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  3. Thrill says:

    Try reading the post before commenting. It helps.

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  4. mikedomi39 says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  5. repmom says:

    Flame on. I figure screaming about how awful I am will cheer you up

    Naw – A simple thumbs down is sufficient for me.

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  6. Thrill says:

    Gee, you would think I addressed the fact that I don’t know what the “revenge” thing means either when I said:

    I don’t know what “revenge” Obama and his people have in mind now, but our own will be to continue resisting his class warfare, statism, and attempts to tear this country apart along every line imaginable.

    I don’t know what you’re looking for here, Mike. Perhaps you’re just a very sadistic and divisive guy who wants to come taste some rightwing tears. Well, you’ll get none out of me. Unlike you, I don’t hate Barack Obama “with a passion” the way you did Bush. This is because I’m not a very small person who takes everything in the grand scheme of things personally.

    My view of Obama is what it is and I just don’t think he deserved re-election. He cares more about his special interests than the overall good of the country and I don’t favor what those interests want.

    Celebrate the day, Mike. Your side scored a touchdown. Congratulations. Just remember that Obama put some extremely serious issues on the back burner for the sake of his re-election and now he has to do something about them. You think he’s up to the task? Great. I hope to see you back here frequently to defend his work.

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  7. AlexInCT says:

    Just had to drop by to see all the whining about how stupid america is for re-electing POL POT (sorry AlexinCT…I mean Obama). American Exceptionism will never go away as long as there is a Constitution, by the way.

    You mean the piece of paper or the actual concept? We might have the piece of paper, but the concept seems to have been trampled to death, long ago, becoming all but meaningless.

    And that exceptionalism that made this country great is long gone too, unless you ascribe to the redefinition of exceptionalism that Obama does. As I pointed out in the post I made. We are no longer the country where Kennedy told us to do for our country: we are the country where the only people that get into government are the ones giving out freebees. If that’s exceptionalism for you, then you sir have pretty low standards. Not that this surprises me BTW. The low and constantly lowering standards, that is. Its been the norm for at least 2 decades now.

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  8. TheContrarian says:

    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard” ~ H.L. Mencken

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  9. balthazar says:

    holy fuck mike, that is about the biggest pile of douchery this side of CM i have ever seen. Holy fuck dude, do i really even know you?

    Stop by to gloat and be a douche, thats not like you IRL, why are you like that here?

    Guess jungle fever really got you

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  10. Poosh says:

    Good quote, TheContrarian! Changed my FB status a few hours ago to this one:

    “The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can’t get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods.”

    - H. L. Mencken

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  11. Thrill says:

    He’s just taking a victory lap, balthazar. Don’t let it shake your personal relations.

    His side sowed this nastiness throughout the campaign and he’s just eating its fruit. Let him enjoy it and he’ll figure out soon enough that it’s rotten.

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  12. Poosh says:

    You know peeps. If one does indeed read my words on this blog, I said consistently that Obama would win. Right from the start. And I gave several philosophical reasons based around a principle of what man is: I said the politics of envy and resentment always wins. Part of me desperately hoped I would be proved wrong, and that the values of old would win. I was sadly proved right and I think my views of what man is, were validated.

    Which breaks my heart, because if there was one country that was going to prove me wrong, it was America. It’s a horrible feeling. I look around facebook even at my own friends and I see the bizarre hatred of conservatives, ignorance and gloating. Their minds are just not connected with reality or the older codes that men use to follow. They are just part of the herd, and the herd is going to crush you.

    ” always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.”

    – 1984

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  13. repmom says:

    If one does indeed read my words on this blog

    Always.

    Part of me desperately hoped I would be proved wrong, and that the values of old would win.

    Those values seem to be lost. Some of us still have them, but not enough, it seems.

    Which breaks my heart, because if there was one country that was going to prove me wrong, it was America. It’s a horrible feeling.

    Yes, it is. That’s how I feel this morning. Just disappointment in and for my country.

    It’s not the end of the world, of course. And we’re not all packing our bags to abandon the country (even though mike seems to think we should). As Thrill says, we’ll deal with it, work with what we have, and carry on, as always.

    But it is kinda crappy.

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  14. Thrill says:

    America got to choose between the South Parkian Giant Douche and the Shit Sandwich. It chose the Shit Sandwich.

    Everybody’s going to have to take a bite before his term is up. If it’s any consolation, Obama’s own blocs are the ones who are going to suffer the consequences of his mismanagement the most, as they have been all along.

    Blacks? Getting killed with unemployment and poverty.

    Youths? No jobs. On their way to being a Lost Generation.

    Unions? Dying and watching their memberships wither and jobs go offshore.

    The Old and Entitled? Goodbye Medicare and Social Security as you know it. Enjoy living on a fixed income with hyperinflation brought on by the debt you’ve run up your entire lives.

    The big winners as far as I can tell were the pro-choice feminists. They get their abortions and “free” birth control. Well and good, I suppose, but there isn’t exactly a future in that, is there?

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  15. ilovecress says:

    First off – Mike, stop being a douche.

    I have a few thoughts on why the election turned out the way it did (strategically I mean – elections are politics, not Governance) but I’ll give it a bit to make a more considered response. Like CM, I realise we’re ‘guests in your house’ here, so spiking the football is a d*ck move – and your reactions to the result (especially compared to Mikes post – what the f*ck man?) deserve respect.

    One thing I do want to say thought is that reports of the death of America are, IMHO, greatly exaggerated. I watched the results come through on a US designed supercomputer I keep in my pocket. Unemployment is coming down, you are coming out of a recession, and the country laughed at Bloomberg trying to ban big cups. The stock market is doing fine, you have the biggest military in the world, and when the biggest storm for ages battered the eastern seaboard, you got your head down and sorted it. Free speech allows you Kos, Fox, Muslim Youtubes and hundreds of cat videos. You’ve got home runs, the right to own guns and Eva Longoria’s buns. You’ve still got Football, and you’re getting into soccer :-) A few weeks ago one American company bought another American company’s idea for $4bn. Meaning there is going to be a new Star Wars film.

    If I had to make a prediction about the next 4 years it is that me and you guys are going to argue a lot about the details of how America works. But America does work, and she’ll be fine.

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  16. AlexInCT says:

    His side sowed this nastiness throughout the campaign and he’s just eating its fruit. Let him enjoy it and he’ll figure out soon enough that it’s rotten.

    It will Boosh’s fault that’s the case too.

    If Obama and team blue had but a measly 5% of the skill they have at running campaigns and fooling people to apply to governing, the last four years of Obama’s reign would have made the Reagan boom years look like piker years in comparison. The sad truth is that the WH is now won by the guy that can make the most stupid promises of freebees and then have the people ignore the fact he couldn’t deliver, or delivered while destroying the country’s future.

    My consolation prize, based on the last 4 years, is that it will be the fucking retarded demographics that voted with the most gusto for these crooks that will be the ones that get shafted the hardest. Battered spousee syndrome indeed.

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  17. Thrill says:

    ilovecress says: November 7, 2012 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -5)

    Thank you, cress. We may not like where we’re going as a country, but should never forget who we are. Sometimes it takes a more distant perspective to see things clearly.

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  18. Poosh says:

    it’s true, Harrison Ford is on board for Episode 7 !!!!!!!!

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  19. Kimpost says:

    it’s true, Harrison Ford is on board for Episode 7 !!!!!!!!

    There will be a 7-8-9, and then probably one every year forever. It will be horrible…

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  20. Thrill says:

    Ford? I just don’t know about that. A geriatric Han Solo is going to be as big a buzz kill as a child Vader. Can’t I have at least one character preserved as awesome in my mind?

    If he’s in there as an actor playing a different role, it would be a cool cameo but they wouldn’t announce it in advance. So that’s out.

    The whole franchise needs a big, fat reboot.

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  21. CM says:

    First off – Mike, stop being a douche.

    I second that sentiment. Be a decent ‘winner’.

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  22. Poosh says:

    Ford in a cameo not as a main character. Have the new episodes feature the children etc.

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  23. InsipiD says:

    There will be a 7-8-9, and then probably one every year forever. It will be horrible…

    It will be horrible, but it will stop. Even Disney knows when a well is dry. They don’t always stop until then, but they know. If sequel chains could go on forever, where is Iron Eagles 9? What about Rocky 6? Oh, wait…

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  24. Thrill says:

    Disney series never die. They go straight to DVD.

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  25. ilovecress says:

    Remember Disney can make some good films – The first Pirates was great, and they were responsible for the Avengers. And that’s before you bring Pixar into the mix.

    And Lucas will not be directing. I’m optimistic.

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  26. Poosh says:

    Disney can do things right when they want to. Lucas’ vision and imagination and intuitions combined wiht a more adult-themed director/writer could create something magnificent.

    I stand by that the prequels were excellent movies for their target audience: children. I think the Disney movies will, ironically, be more adult themed.

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  27. Thrill says:

    Oh, yeah. Immediately after I heard about the deal, I was very happy Disney got it. ANYTHING that takes creative control away from George “Sodomize their Eyes in Every Scene with CGI” Lucas is automatically a good thing.

    Somebody else mentioned that Disney will be smart enough to let people make the movies who actually understand why Star Wars is great. I don’t think George Lucas ever did.

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  28. Thrill says:

    I stand by that the prequels were excellent movies for their target audience: children

    If that were true, it was a horrible mistake. Phantom Menace has a boring, incomprehensible plot and Revenge of the Sith was Nightmare Fuel.

    See: Plinkett, Harry.

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  29. ilovecress says:

    Somebody else mentioned that Disney will be smart enough to let people make the movies who actually understand why Star Wars is great. I don’t think George Lucas ever did.

    Thrill – just out of interest- do you mean Jeff Cannata, because I literally just heard him say the same thing

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  30. Thrill says:

    I cannot remember where I saw it. May have been Ace of Spades? Point is I heard it from someone else and didn’t think of it myself, though I wish I had.

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  31. Poosh says:

    Actually when I saw Phantom Menace I was probs at the target age, slightly older, and I loved every minute of it. Same with Clones and Sith. I understood the plot then, and understand it today. Phantom Menace is a fantastic, tighter made (not too sure why this is, Fellowship of the Ring is the same in terms of being a better crafted than the next two movies) moral fairy tale for kids. There is probs a generation gap. I’ve been noting LOADS of kids enjoying the Clone Wars tv show as well. I think you have to really get over the fact that these movies weren’t made for you. Yeah, they could have been much better but such is life. In revenge of the sith when half the cool characters that I grew up with were wiped out by the Empire in that brutal montage, that actually got to me!

    I think Lucas should never have directed, but his sheer imagination and how he puts together a fight scene (something Peter Jackson or Ridley Scott, for example, can’t seem to do) gets my praise.

    Lucas does have issues and I think this comes from him being surrounded by yes men. Darth Vader’s “noooooooo” was entirely retarded, and someone should have gone up to him and told him to cut that shit out.

    Anyway! People moan about star wars but then somehow like movies like QT’s Inglorious Bastards! That is an ABORTION of a movie, and that’s made for adults, so no excuses!

    Glad to see Star Wars is actually just as important as the election for some reason.

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  32. Thrill says:

    I have an “Agree to Disagree” policy on the prequels vs the originals controversy. It’s just futile.

    And you’re wrong.

    Glad to see Star Wars is actually just as important as the election for some reason.

    I’ve been wanting a discussion about the Disney/Sequel thing and have been too distracted to post on it.

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  33. CM says:

    …..how he puts together a fight scene (something Peter Jackson or Ridley Scott, for example, can’t seem to do) gets my praise.

    Wow, I’ve never heard that complaint about the Lord of the Rings fight scenes before.

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  34. Poosh says:

    to be honest I phased out of your election this last week because I started watching Battlestar Galactica – midway through season 2 so far. You watched it !!? It’s bloody good so far.

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  35. Thrill says:

    BSG is GREAT through Season 2. It goes downhill really fast in Season 3 and the finale in Season 4 will leave you stunned and angry. JimK used to liveblog it every week and if you thought we were bad today, you should have seen the shocked despair when the end came.

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  36. ilovecress says:

    Anyone else think that ‘Obama wins and plots revenge’ isn’t that far away from an awesome Star Wars title?

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  37. Mississippi Yankee says:

    I couldn’t for the life of me see how an after election post ‘changed gears’ and became a Disney/Star Wars post THEN I SAW SOUTH PARK- season 16 finale.

    Great minds really do think alike. I am in Awe.

    P.S. it’s not online yet but you DO want to see it. Sooo many questions are answered.

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  38. Thrill says:

    Anyone else think that ‘Obama wins and plots revenge’ isn’t that far away from an awesome Star Wars title?

    Given that Barack Obama already sounds like a good Star Wars universe X-Wing Pilot name, yes.

    I couldn’t for the life of me see how an after election post ‘changed gears’ and became a Disney/Star Wars post THEN I SAW SOUTH PARK

    Just blame cress.

    I’m intrigued by your endorsement. I’ll keep an eye out for it.

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  39. Hal_10000 says:

    I posted my thoughts on the prequels and Disney buy out at my own blog. Short story: I’m postiive.

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  40. Poosh says:

    Um, thoughts?

    Basically, if Ron Paul supporters voted for Romney he would have carried all swing states ?

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  41. Thrill says:

    Great post on the buy-out. We totally concur. I think Disney will do well, but I still think that a full reboot is justified and even necessary. The story is fucked beyond repair.

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  42. Thrill says:

    Um, thoughts?

    Impossible to say without knowing whether or not those Ron Paul voters DID mostly turn out to vote for Romney. The table doesn’t say if they did or not, only how many voted for Paul in the primary and then how close the election was.

    Fact is that if anyone was willing to vote third party or stay home to allow Obama to be re-elected, then it just doesn’t matter.

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  43. Poosh says:

    I think we can establish, that – as was the main fear and the logical consequence of picking Romney – many right-wingers simply did not turn up to vote, because, for them, Romney was too close to Obama.

    This was said again and again at the primaries.

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  44. Thrill says:

    From what we can tell from the totals, it looks like it was a low-turnout election for both sides. But as long as the Democrats have a president with rock-star allure, they have an insurmountable advantage.

    I guess Ron Paul is the only Republican who also has that appeal, but it’s meaningless if he’s too fringey to win a primary.

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  45. Poosh says:

    Good post on the disney star wars thing, Hal.

    I don’t think the prequels plots are that complicated, I bloody followed them easily enough. I think a lot of what Lucas did WAS great. The clear Buddhist philosophy the movie argues, the decision to not portray Obi-Wan as wise but PART OF THE PROBLEM, the fact that Anakin WAS a whiny teenager with too much power who turned to the dark side to keep his love alive (entirely linked tot he Buddhist theme). I love how it arcs to Return of the Jedi : Luke Skywalker IS the true hero because he believes in an intuition he has about Vader that both Obi-Wan and Yoda do not have. And I love how almost-evil Anakin and Palpatine ARE NOT OBVIOUSLY WRONG when they argue the Jedi have overstepped the mark.

    But many mistakes and oddities were made along the way. As you said, all Lucas needed was a few decent non-yes men around him to say “no, that’s retarded, don’t have cartoon robots help give birth to teh Sky Walker twins” or even “nope, it makes no logical sense for Padme to die in this movie, seeing as Leia has vague memories of her as a child in Return of the Jedi).

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  46. Poosh says:

    Obviously Ron Paul is wrong and actually dangerously ignorant when it comes to foreign affairs (even Obama seems smarter than him in that regard). But when it comes to economics Ron Paul is right on the money (heh…). But as for Ron Paul’s supporters? The paulbots at least are hysterical, ignorant children who simply like the idea of there being no rules and no one to boss them around, and have latched on to this RELIGION to satisfy their inability to grow up.

    And then there IS the competency issue. All presidents, it’s logical from my point of view, should have at least been Governor somewhere. You cannot be PM in the UK without running a constituency.

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  47. Kimpost says:

    You cannot be PM in the UK without running a constituency.

    Normally the PM is an MP, but I don’t think that it is legally necessary, is it?

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  48. thelastdakrat says:

    Thrill, I’ve made my peace with the last episode of BSG. Regardless of the very end, in my opinion it is still the best damn television program that has ever aired.

    I miss the live blogging. Wish he would do that with another program.

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  49. Poosh says:

    Normally the PM is an MP, but I don’t think that it is legally necessary, is it?

    You know… I’m 75% sure he must be leader of a party and only a MP can be a leader but given that .. we’re the UK … and have a constitution spread over 1000 years, I”ve decided to simply respond “f*ck knows actually*.

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  50. Poosh says:

    So far BSG has been great, just done the episode with the basic, quite daring, message that the Media can be a fifth columnist. I’m guessing it goes downhill like Homeland did (Homeland went downhill after 3 or 4 episodes…)

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  51. Thrill says:

    Hal is correct that love of the originals is a very Gen X thing. I am a rare Gen Xer who actually likes and admires the Millenial generation, but I think the love for the prequels they have is deluded.

    The clear Buddhist philosophy the movie argues

    This was completely undermined by turning the Force into a weird bloodborne condition instead of a gift with an underlying philosophy.

    the decision to not portray Obi-Wan as wise but PART OF THE PROBLEM

    I go the other way on this. I think Obi Wan was too perfect in a Mary Sue kind of way. It would have been better to have Obi Wan have really screwed up. Like known that Anakin really had some evil tendencies and refused to report them to the Council to protect his friend. Maybe a love triangle with Padme would have worked. I don’t see any place in the prequels where Obi Wan deserves the blame for Anakin’s descent.

    the fact that Anakin WAS a whiny teenager with too much power who turned to the dark side to keep his love alive (entirely linked tot he Buddhist theme

    I totally reject the “Love Leads to the Dark Side” idea that the prequels push. It’s just philosophically twisted. At any rate, I hate to be mean, but I think that Anakin as the powerful youth who feels like he’s not being given everything he’s entitled to is probably exactly why his character strikes such a chord with Millenials. Gen Xers have a hard time identifying with that and that’s probably why we love Han so much.

    Luke Skywalker IS the true hero because he believes in an intuition he has about Vader that both Obi-Wan and Yoda do not have

    But watch the prequels and tell me that Obi Wan has any reason to believe that Anakin isn’t an evil dick? I mean, really watch. They’re not that good of friends as Plinkett points out. We’re told that they’re friends, but all they do through the second and third movies is bitch about each other.

    And I question whether or not Luke is the real hero. The entire prequels focuses on one character: Anakin. Nobody else has a real story or arc. The original trilogy does build on other characters, but it comes back to Vader.

    Anakin Skywalker is the tragic hero and Star Wars is his story. All six movies.

    it makes no logical sense for Padme to die in this movie, seeing as Leia has vague memories of her as a child in Return of the Jedi).

    She most likely remembered her adoptive father’s wife. That’s how I usually explain it.

    The story was screwed by Anakin being this Jesus figure. It wasn’t necessary to the story for him to be the most powerful Jedi ever. Why couldn’t he just be strong enough with the Force and have used the Dark Side to develop more quickly? That would square pretty well with what Yoda told Luke about how the Dark Side is “quicker” and “the easy path”.

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  52. Thrill says:

    Thrill, I’ve made my peace with the last episode of BSG

    It WAS great, but I couldn’t handle all of Season 4, not just the finale. I feel like the writers got half-hearted when they knew the show was going to be done.

    It’s one of those franchises I’m very loyal to (like Transformers and Star Wars) so I stuck with it until the end, but I really disliked the way it turned out after the first two truly wonderful seasons.

    So far BSG has been great, just done the episode with the basic, quite daring, message that the Media can be a fifth columnist.

    You’ll enjoy it and I do think you should see it through to the end. Maybe you’ll see something there I missed. But I was so unhappy with it, I never watched a single episode of Caprica.

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  53. Thrill says:

    I miss the live blogging. Wish he would do that with another program.

    Hell, I could do it, I suppose. We need a show though. I’m sure Walking Dead would come up, but I haven’t started watching yet.

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  54. Thrill says:

    The paulbots at least are hysterical, ignorant children who simply like the idea of there being no rules and no one to boss them around, and have latched on to this RELIGION to satisfy their inability to grow up.

    Well, they’re Libertarians and so is Ron Paul. The only reason the GOP has to entertain them during primaries is because Paul insists on running as a Republican instead of a Libertarian so that there is some hope in winning the general election.

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  55. Poosh says:

    This was completely undermined by turning the Force into a weird bloodborne condition instead of a gift with an underlying philosophy.

    The entire point is that attachment causes suffering and that you must let go of permanence e to find peace of mind, that’s your Buddhist ‘philosophy’ and it’s the entire point of the prequels! Anakin cannot let go of things, his mother and then Padme, it was actually well put together. So his love for Padme leads to the Dark Side as he can’t let go of things – that’s the Buddhism of the prequels. Remember Yoda literally tells him this and nobody listens to him. In fact if the Jedi just bloody listened to Yoda then none of this would have happened. As for that youtube guy, in all honestly, he just doesn’t know what he’s talking about and he’s at the end of the day picking holes in a kids movie. Which is the definition of pathetic imo. And the friendship between Obi and Anakin was established in the Clone Wars tv series. The movies signify turning points in the characters lives.

    When I say Skywalker is the real hero, Luke, I’m just really pointing out that of all the characters in the series he’s the guy (I hate Luke btw he annoys me) whose faith and intuitions are validated at the end, it’s why he’s the man to lead the rebellion. When Yoda and Obi-Wan tell him to stay the fuck away from Cloud City, he’s friends are fucked, he says “No. I’m gonna save them” and when they tell him to kill Vader he says “No. There’s good in him,” And Luke Skywalker is right. Which is why he’s the man to lead the New Republic.

    And when Vader killed the Emperor, he did bring balance to the force ;)

    Star Wars, as always, is more important than Politics.

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  56. Poosh says:

    My problem with Ron Paulbots is their stupidity when it comes to Foreign Policy. Loved watching Newt kick Ron Paul around in the debates. But their stupidity is built upon their religious beliefs about the world, which has no baring in reality. These cretin sit there and honestly think Iran will leave everyone alone if only the west stayed away from the ME. They have religious beliefs about “the state” which matches standard religious beliefs about “a devil/satan” and the religious beliefs of liberals (for many liberals, the right is the devil, normally focused around Bush … this year Romney etc etc, 1984 stuff). Concepts such as honour, duty, loyalty are abstinent because their entire existence is self-centred and self-interested, and not in the Ayn Rand sense.

    I contrast them with other libertarians and Objectivists who reject mystic crap about the world and are interested in reality and facts. There are sensible and good reasons for why the US has bases all over the world, for example, and it has nothing to do with Empire.

    McCain by my mark lost in part because right-wingers simply did not come out to vote for him. Romney managed to cause even more right-wingers to not vote for him. That’s the disconnect here. Obama won merely because a lot of right-wingers didn’t want to vote for a centrist like Romney. This was easily detectable in the primaries but it was assumed (and this was, it seems, the fatal mistake) they would choose the lesser of two evils.

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  57. Thrill says:

    But Luke sets out to turn Vader through love and Vader is in turn redeemed by his love for Luke. He goes to confront him at Yoda’s explicit direction and he goes to win him over, not to kill him.

    The prequels claiming that fighting for what you love turns that beautiful resolution in ROTJ on its head, doesn’t it?

    And the friendship between Obi and Anakin was established in the Clone Wars tv series.

    I don’t go in for any of the Expanded Universe stuff. Good storytelling demands that the story make sense without having to track down every book, comic book, video game, and the like over 30 years. This is exactly why somebody needs to hit the reboot button already.

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  58. ilovecress says:

    You cannot be PM in the UK without running a constituency.

    Normally the PM is an MP, but I don’t think that it is legally necessary, is it?

    Yes and no. There are no rules actually written down, and the authority of the PM is actually only borrowed from the sovereign. (Fucked up right? Technically she could make anyone executive if she liked)

    However, logistically, the PM has to come from the commons, and the only way to be in the commons is to be elected, and the only way to be elected is as an MP.

    But as none of this is written down, it theoretically could be challenged. I think, anyway.

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  59. Poosh says:

    I think you’ll find it is written down somewhere and codified. I can’t say where but most of it is actually written down on paper. We have an unwritten constitution or some such, which is misleading, as it is actually written down, but over the course of hundreds of years.

    I’d rather be ruled from the power of the sovereign than the power of the people, thankyou very much.

    A single tyrant is easier to deal with, than 30 million voting tyrants. But yes, the Queen could happily execute anyone of us, and it would be legal. And I’m all for that.

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  60. Kimpost says:

    A single tyrant is easier to deal with, than 30 million voting tyrants. But yes, the Queen could happily execute anyone of us, and it would be legal. And I’m all for that.

    I’m assuming you meant that you are for the concept, because the tradition holds value, or some sorts. Not that you’d be for if it actually happened? :)

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  61. Kimpost says:

    http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080227033714AAgd27P

    There are very few formal/legal restraints on who can be PM because the UK has an unwritten constitution that leaves a lot of these types of details up to tradition.

    Legally there is no restriction on who can be prime minister, the Queen can appoint whomever she likes to the office. But in practice the only person she could appoint is the leader of the majority in the House of Commons – meaning that he/she is always a Member of Parliament who has been picked to lead their party. The only time in the last century that someone who wasn’t an MP was appointed PM was in 1963, when the (majority) Conservative Party’s new leader (Sir Alec Douglas Home) was actually a member of the House of Lords. But even then he stood down as a Lord and ran for the House of Commons very quickly afterwards, becoming an MP.

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  62. Poosh says:

    I don’t go in for any of the Expanded Universe stuff.

    The Clone Wars is not expanded, it’s part of official law… whatever that is (I don’t know any expanded universe stuff other than playing Shadows of the Empire on the N64). In the prequels you clearly saw they were friends and knew eachother’s tactics etc. You’re told they’re friends and they seem perfectly friendly enough but with an imbalance of power. Could have been done better but enough was done. The point is kids understand what is going on, without any unnecessary exposition (when making a more adult themed movie or something designed for all ages, you might do it differently). The Clone Wars establishes events between eps 2 and 3.

    Both Yoda and Obi-Wan said to confront, and I assume kill seeing as Luke was all “I can’t kill my daddy!”.

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  63. Poosh says:

    I’m assuming you meant that you are for the concept, because the tradition holds value, or some sorts. Not that you’d be for if it actually happened? :)

    Yes. lol. I defend her right to kill anyone she likes. But if she took that action there would probably be consequences. It totally works itself out… The point is where authority lies and to whom or what do I give up my natural authority or rights, shall we say, in exchange for the creation of the state and the protections therein.

    That’s basically Hobbes actually.

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  64. Thrill says:

    The Clone Wars is not expanded, it’s part of official law… whatever that is

    You mean “canon”? A lot of the books and other literature are too though. I’m not sure how you can tell from one to the other (do they have the George Lucas Jar Jar Seal of Me Likeys Thisa?).

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  65. Thrill says:

    Both Yoda and Obi-Wan said to confront, and I assume kill seeing as Luke was all “I can’t kill my daddy!”.

    Of course, as we learned in the cave, Luke was really confronting himself when he confronted Vader. He almost turned out just like Vader when he nearly killed him for saying that he would try to turn Leia to evil.

    So Luke loved Leia and almost went full Dark Side by killing Vader–who he also loved–out of anger for threatening her,

    Reminder that Obi Wan told Anakin: “I loved you” before he left him to die after their duel. So love doesn’t lead to the Dark Side ONLY if it’s platonic!

    It’s just too convoluted at this point.

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  66. Thrill says:

    Star Wars, as always, is more important than Politics.

    Unless we’re talking about British government, the other ancillary conversation on this thread.

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  67. Poosh says:

    The meaning of the prequels is not that love leads to the dark side it’s the FEAR of losing and not accepting that everything ends. Anakin loved his mother, feared losing her, did lose her which set up the Padme thing: it’s not love but the fear that comes with it that’s the problem. Luke Skywalker did fear losing his sister and tipped to the dark side to protect her, along with anger, but he didn’t turn, he stopped. He threw his weapon away, he realised he was becoming his father etc.

    do they have the George Lucas Jar Jar Seal of Me Likeys Thisa?

    That’s literally it actually.

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  68. Thrill says:

    Luke Skywalker did fear losing his sister and tipped to the dark side to protect her, along with anger, but he didn’t turn, he stopped. He threw his weapon away, he realised he was becoming his father etc.

    But he still loved her. I mean, presumably he didn’t let her kiss him on the mouth again, but he showed that you can love and not give in to fear and anger. I just don’t like the concept that the Jedi have to be robots.

    Obi Wan clearly got emotional about things. Seeing Qui Gon die, having to put Anakin down like the mad dog he was, etc. But there was never a “Oooh, he might get in trouble for that!” moment. It meant nothing.

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  69. Thrill says:

    That’s literally it actually.

    Oh, Lord, tell me you’re screwing with me.

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  70. CM says:

    Unless we’re talking about British government, the other ancillary conversation on this thread.

    Or Battlestar. I’m not a big Sci-Fi fan, but I thought it was fracking brilliant too. The wife and I got through the whole lot in about a month.

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  71. Thrill says:

    I haven’t had a replacement for BSG since it ended. It broke my heart, but I still love it and send letters.

    There is no other series I follow except for the Venture Bros and that series is so sporadic in production. It started 10 years ago and we’re just now at Season 5.

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  72. CM says:

    I haven’t had a replacement for BSG since it ended. It broke my heart, but I still love it and send letters.

    :-)
    I totally get like that with shows.
    I was very very sad when I had to say goodbye to Andy Sipowicz, and David Fisher, and even Dr. Archie Morris. I’m not sure that online support groups make it better or worse.
    Although at least with those ones I liked the way they ended (the Six Feet Under finale was just the best and I’ve watched it a number of times since).

    Dare I ask why you thought the final season of BG was so bad?

    There is no other series I follow except for the Venture Bros and that series is so sporadic in production. It started 10 years ago and we’re just now at Season 5.

    Never heard of it!

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  73. Thrill says:

    Poosh, do NOT read this comment. I’m dropping some BSG spoilers..
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Anyway, I think the REAL problem was that the writers were basically told in Season 3 that they were getting shut down after Season 4. My own sense is that they felt that they just had to shut it down and they just really didn’t give a shit.

    Now, the 3rd and 4th Seasons went against the (very excellent) first two seasons. All along, we were told the Cylons “have a plan” but in Season 3, it turned out that they did NOT. They were exterminating humans all through the first two seasons and then suddenly they decided to try peaceful co-existence on New Caprica. WHHHHHYYYY????

    Next thing you know, half the Cylons become religious nuts and start a Cylon Civil War over the Final Five….but how in the hell did this factor into the plan we were told they had at the beginning of the credits for the first two seasons? It doesn’t.

    So right there, they blew the premise.

    Season 4 bothered me because the ENTIRE THING was a literal Deus ex Machina (to reference another thread. Hope I’m not overusing the term). The events of the entire series were manipulated by angels. What?

    Starbuck? Her whole character arc from her re-emergence meant nothing. She was…make believe? Tyler Durden? A figment of someone’s imagination? Another angel?

    If the SyFy executives hadn’t killed it (they really are the worst sort of people) and let it run for a few more years, I think it would have been great throughout. But I can’t forgive the Hand of God Season 4 magic wand waving. Might as well have made it “just a dream” of someone in the Caprica series and started THAT series from that.

    Now, I will say that there were EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD episodes throughout the series and the final battle in the 4th Season was awesome, but I hated the way it all panned out.

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  74. CM says:

    Yep, I think that’s an excellent summary Thrill. Thanks for laying it out.
    Also, every time Tricia Helfer came on the screen I forgot everything about the plot and characters and had to concentrate on my wife not noticing my dribbling.
    She’s still looking good.

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  75. thelastdakrat says:

    Hell, Tricia Helfer even makes me feel funny.

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  76. Thrill says:

    Head Six was the hottest of them all.

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  77. thelastdakrat says:

    No argument there.

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  78. Santino says:

    However, logistically, the PM has to come from the commons, and the only way to be in the commons is to be elected, and the only way to be elected is as an MP.

    I believe there is a bit of a wrinkle, at least in Canada anyway. There is the possibility of a sitting MP stepping down and in the leadership race a non-MP wins the nomination. But in that instance I believe a sitting MP would evacuate their seat and give it up to the PM. I’m pretty sure that’s happened for the oppostion party where their leader was replaced by a non-MP. I can’t remember whether it was at the Federal or Provincial level but I believe there is precedence (too lazy to look it up). This scenario can potentially play itself out right now in Canada.

    I know, YAWN Canadian politics… That’s why I come to this blog!

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  79. Thrill says:

    I know, YAWN Canadian politics…

    STILL more exciting than the Galactic Senate in the Star Wars prequels.

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  80. CM says:

    I know, YAWN Canadian politics… That’s why I come to this blog!

    Yeah, same applies to NZ politics. Super-YAWN.

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