Big and Little Apples Roundups

A lot going on today and I don’t have time to flood the zone with posts on everything. So here are a few rapid-fire thoughts:

It’s clear that today’s Empire State Building shooting was not a mass shooting but straight-up murder. The press were all geared up to cover it like a mass shooting, but the guy killed an executive and then got mowed down by cops on a crowded street. Much as I’d like to criticize the cops — all nine of the wounded were hit by their fire — my initial read is that they did the right thing. Grabbing murderers is their job. And when he turned on them with a weapon in hand, they had no choice but to fire.

Speaking of murderers, Anders Brevik is going to get 10-21 years in prison for murdering 77 people, most of them young and defenseless. This may sound like a liberal judge but it isn’t: Norway has neither the death penalty nor life sentences. 21 years is the maximum anyone can be sentenced to. The prosecutors can, however, petition against release for dangerous people and there is little doubt they will do so whenever this piece of shit is eligible to get out. Let’s hope the man never sees a free day.

Staying in the courts, Apple won its big lawsuit against Samsung, one of 19 lawsuits on four continents the two companies are currently fighting out. I have not kept up with this but read enough today to conclude that Samsung did copycat quite a bit, at least in their early iterations.

Finally, if you haven’t read it, please read Jim’s comment under the Lance Armstrong thread for a much better analysis of today’s events than I was able to bash out.

Update: One of Harley’s friends reminded me of this on Facebook: Chicago has some of the tougher gun control laws in the nation. On Thursday night/Friday morning, 19 people were shot in various unrelated incidents. Strange that this is getting a lot less coverage than what happened in New York.

Comments are closed.

  1. FPrefect89

    Much as I’d like to criticize the cops — all nine of the wounded were hit by their fire

    I will criticize the cops. When you fire a weapon, regardless of for what reason, you need to know what is behind it. Given that example there, if I was in that position and using my concealed carry weapon and injured anybody but the thereat, I would be held criminally and financially liable, the cops will not be.

    I am not going to second guess what happened, the police were walking into an unknown situation with an armed person. However that still does not justify knowing you have a clear background.

    Yes, the job of a police officer is a tough one, they signed up for it, nobody held a gun to their head to become a cop. They should not be put on platform and blessed that they can do something like this and not be held accountable. If an individual with a CHL is held to that high of a standard, the the police with the constant training should be held to that standard or even higher given that they are suppose to protect the public and not endanger the public.

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  2. HARLEY

    I will criticize the cops. When you fire a weapon, regardless of for what reason, you need to know what is behind it.

    correct.
    The officers discharged 17 rounds. which is a bit excessive since there was only one person, and the range was just a few feet.
    Given how this guy just killed some one, i can understand that using a taser would not be a popular option , however given how crowded the street was, bystander safety should have been paramount. not just getting the bad guy.
    Over all this was piss poor marksmanship. If a CCW holder had done this, the media would be in a frenzy calling for more restrictions and of course make statements on how only the well trained police should be the only ones armed.

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  3. Kimpost

    “Well trained police.” How much time do police (NYPD) actually have to spend at the shooting range? I know that the mandatory practice sessions for Swedish cops are very few.

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  4. HARLEY

    How much time do police (NYPD) actually have to spend at the shooting range? I know that the mandatory practice sessions for Swedish cops are very few.

    not enough obviously….
    From what i seen and heard, most officers get range time once a month, or only once a year during Qualification.

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  5. hist_ed

    Weren’t we just talkin’ ’bout police officer range time? Some thought that 360 odd rounds a year for certain federal agencies’ cop force was waaaayyy tooooo muuuuccchhh and a sign of the impending fascist takeover. Others (me included) thought that 360 rounds sounded like one or two visits to the range.

    I do have to say that static range time probably isn’t the best prep for shootings. They need to train in motion, shooting at changing targets surrounded by civilians.

    that said, “till all the info comes out, suspend judgement.

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  6. Mississippi Yankee

    Don’t think there ever was a post that richtaylor is more qualified to comment on. Your views officer?

    Seventeen rounds on a crowded street, certainly you must have an opinion rich. Or are you giving us all the “Blue Wall”?

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  7. richtaylor365

    Don’t think there ever was a post that richtaylor is more qualified to comment on. Your views officer?

    I’m going to go out on a limb and assume that you are genuine in your question and not being snarky. And I was going to comment but I just got home.

    Given that example there, if I was in that position and using my concealed carry weapon and injured anybody but the thereat, I would be held criminally and financially liable, the cops will not be.

    Incorrect. The difference between you (a private citizen) and a cop is that he has a “duty to act”, you have no such duty. Say you were on the street, packing, when all this went down. You have several options you can choose, you can act, or, you can do nothing, you can hide, runaway, even drive way, you can retreat if you want, a cop has no such luxury. The officer on scene is mandated by law to “use proper enforcement techniques” when required, he can not run away, he must act. Now I’m not saying that spraying the crowd in a hail of bullets meets that standard, and yes, 17 rounds sounds excessive to me, but since I was not there (and neither were any of you) how about we wait until the shooting investigation is complete. Any time an officer discharges his weapon, an after action report is required. You can bet that with this being a well publicized shooting, that a thorough investigation will determine what happened, and in the event one of more officers are found out of policy or negligent in any way, then he should be punished. And yes, individual officers can be sued civilly for their actions while on the job, depending on the circumstances and his degree of negligence. Usually the plaintiffs go after the deep pockets, the police dept. itself or the city municipality.

    the the police with the constant training should be held to that standard or even higher given that they are suppose to protect the public and not endanger the public.

    They are already held to a higher standard, as they should. Do you remember any of the posts I’ve written about “Special Relationships”? Using this shooting as an example, if you were on scene and did nothing or even ran away, nothing would happen to you and you would not be liable for running away. Not so with the officers, once they are on scene a special relationship has formed, between them and all the civilians on scene, it’s like he just adopted all of them and now he is responsible for their safety. If he did like you and ran away, not only would he be fired for dereliction of duty, but if any misfortune occurred to any one on scene, they could sue the city because he did n ot protect them like he was trained (and paid) to do.

    Seventeen rounds on a crowded street, certainly you must have an opinion rich.

    My opinion is that on it’s face, it seems excessive to me but whether it was in fact excessive, I can’t say because I was not there. I will wait for the after action report to see if it was excessive and what the city plans to do about it.

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  8. Mississippi Yankee

    rich

    My question was an honest one stemming from your past career. I just wondered why you had remained silent even 36 hours after the shooting.

    I have just read that both officers have been on the course for 15 years apiece.

    Officer Matthews had drawn attention earlier this year by filing a lawsuit against the New York Police Department that accused his superiors of unfairly punishing him for not meeting arrest quotas. A judge threw out the complaint.

    All nine people wounded during a dramatic confrontation between police and a gunman outside the Empire State Building were struck by bullets fired by the two officers, police said Saturday, citing ballistics evidence.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/25/nypd-shooting-bystander-victims-hit-by-police-gunfire/#ixzz24cOcIKZ7

    Bloomberg wants 2 things to happen very quickly:
    1) Find a scapegoat (wonder who)
    2) Get this shooting off the front page ASAP. (it’s not even on Drudge’s today)
    NYC has some very restrictive gun control laws and having his town look like the OK Corral reflects poorly on gun-grabbing Mike.

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  9. richtaylor365

    My question was an honest one stemming from your past career

    Fair enough, but the operative part of that sentence is “past career”. As stated before, I was a retired tennis bum who thanks God everyday that I got out in one piece with my health fairly intact.

    I do not spend my days scouring the net for stories about cop shootings then read up on them, my days are full enough. TBH I haven’t really followed this particular shooting or the circumstances behind it, I have other interests now. And was not even going to post a response to the original post, but FPrefect89 posted stuff I needed to correct, then you called me out so I figured I would post something.

    I have personal knowledge based on my stint in investigations to know a)That stuff you see in newspapers is not always accurate, and b) That it is always a good idea to get all the facts before coming to any conclusions.

    If officers at this shooting are found out of policy or negligent in any way then they deserve what they get , but I am not ready to go there yet based on stuff put form in the newspapers.

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  10. Section8

    Just my opinion

    The cops may very well be bad shots, but…

    1) The video I’ve seen looks like the guy was pulling a gun on them; you don’t have much time to consider all the possibilities before reacting and come up with some plan on how to deal with it
    2) I’m sure shootouts like this happen, yet we don’t hear about a bunch of people getting shot because there aren’t a bunch of people standing around
    3) The law of averages is at some point going to have an event like this no matter how well trained the cops are
    4) There is no shooting range I’ve heard of where people actually fire back at you with live rounds to sharpen your practice. Whether he fired a shot is irrelevant. The cops were informed of someone shooting, start to head toward him, and out pops a gun apparently. I can’t blame anyone if they assumed he’d start firing whether he did or not

    Besides, these weren’t some cops blazing away in a botched drug raid, or pulling over and shooting up grandma’s car for doing 40 in a 35 zone. They were walking up to a asshole who just murdered someone and who pulled a gun out.

    Staying in the courts, Apple won its big lawsuit against Samsung, one of 19 lawsuits on four continents the two companies are currently fighting out. I have not kept up with this but read enough today to conclude that Samsung did copycat quite a bit, at least in their early iterations.

    I don’t know about Apple, but I hate Samsung. Bought a plasma TV from them and it went out in 6 months. Watching TV one day, and a star shaped crack appears in the middle of the screen, then poof. Call them up, they say send in some pictures so I did, then say I must have broke it. They didn’t even send a technician out to look at it, even though this was a known problem with some of their plasma TVs back at the time. What the fuck would I hit my TV? It wasn’t even football season at the time. Fuck’em. Any lawsuit they lose is a good one.

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  11. richtaylor365

    According to this morning’s paper, they are now saying 16 rounds were fired, with 10 hits on the suspect, not bad for split second reaction time. This leaves 6 errant rounds with 9 people injured. I think when all is said and done the after action report will document that some (most) of those hit were from fragments, bullets that struck the concrete and splintered. I read a report years ago documenting 1 round fired with 3 injuries, struck by fragments and concrete chips.

    Re: Apple vs. Samsung, obviously I knew nothing about the specifics of the dispute but I was rooting for Samsung. Competition is the friend of consumers, now Apple has no competition and can charge even more for their grossly overpriced products, consumers lose.

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  12. InsipiD

    Competition is the friend of consumers, now Apple has no competition and can charge even more for their grossly overpriced products, consumers lose.

    Agreed in principle, but not in fact. Apple is doing well model by model, but they sure don’t have a monopoly. The duopoly of Google’s Android vs. Apple’s iOS is a much bigger deal than hardware shipments. Android has many manufacturers and that colors the results of any sales figures. Apple needs to make sure that having folks like LG, HTC, and Samsung manufacturing phones and free to switch OSes as needed doesn’t leave them out. If someone else like Microsoft or Blackberry (now there’s a joke) could put an effective OS fight in there, it would about guarantee years of great market innovation. That said, my first Blackberry was but 4 years ago now, when they looked nearly insurmountable in the market. Nokia and Motorola both had their turns as a dark market enemy. Competition in that market is alive and well.

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  13. hist_ed

    Competition is the friend of consumers, now Apple has no competition and can charge even more for their grossly overpriced products, consumers lose.

    Protection intellectual property is also a friend of consumers otherwise the incentive to innovate goes waaayyyy downhill.

    And of course Apple still had competition. They just have to come up with a slightly different way to compete.

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  14. Nexus

    It’s clear that today’s Empire State Building shooting was not a mass shooting but straight-up murder.
    Followed by suicide by cop.

    I’m not a cop and I wasn’t there but it seems to me when someone pulls a gun on you the only reason to fire 17 rounds is because you ran out of ammo.

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  15. Miguelito

    About the Apple v Samsung bit… what killed Samsung (at least it seems to me) is the fact that they were caught numerous times in their own emails and docs directly referring to the iphone design and saying they needed to be more like it. I mean.. duh. You’d think they’d know better. Not to mention the phone they held up as “proof” that they didn’t copy at all (the F700?) really didn’t look anything like the later phones that came out looking nearly exactly like iphone copies.

    As much as it drove me nuts, I see the reasoning behind some meetings we had with intel reps years ago. When Itanium was clearly becoming Itanic, and AMD’s x86_64 design was taking off big time, Intel admitted they were making their version but they only referred to it in docs (or would say) I64e and would only refer to “the other company” and would refuse to say “AMD” directly. I tried hard to make them say it too just because it was like a salesman refusing to call it a “Used car” and was driving me nuts. But smart companies know to not say things that might later come back to bite them in the ass if sued.

    I really don’t see the result stifling competition either. Other good articles out there have pointed out how the new windows phone stuff is a lot different in look and feel (though not yet selling as well). It does point out more issues with the patent law and the massive barriers to entry more then anything else, if you ask me.

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  16. Miguelito

    but I hate Samsung. Bought a plasma TV from them and it went out in 6 months. Watching TV one day, and a star shaped crack appears in the middle of the screen, then poof.

    I actually have a couple Samsung TVs and have been mostly very happy with them. The picture quality and stuff is top notch.. the problem is (and this seems universal) is their customer support is complete shit if anything breaks. My parents just had a bad experience with their TV and a good friend at work had horrible experiences with them with a Samsung refrigerator that was enough to make them get rid of it even though it was only just over a year old.

    My own experience with my big TV (67″ LED DLP, last DLP model they made) was that it has been great, other then when the blue LED ate it. I got a local guy to check it out (it was out of warranty) and it took nearly 6 weeks to get the replacement. He flat out told me every experience with Samsung he’s had is that way. They’ll eventually get you the part you need, but it’ll take fucking forever… apparently they won’t keep any spare parts on hand in the US at all and everything has to go through a process and come from the home offices in South Korea.

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  17. Miguelito

    Oh yeah, when working, the Sammy tvs are top notch. It was just that one period of blown led (they’re slightly customized phlatlight units) and other their that, this tv rocks. Same with the 37″ LCD I bought for my bedroom.

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