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  1. Seattle Outcast

    You know what dipwad? Even Hilary Clinton stated as much about Obama – at his core, regardless of where he was born, his life experiences abroad have colored his value system to such an extent that he holds almost no common ground with most Americans.

    His actions over the last three years have demonstrated that this is true repeatedly.

    The fact that you seem to think he’s all that and a bag of chips pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin.

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  2. CM

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  3. Mississippi Yankee

    So he was, at most, 10 years old.
    And yet you’re suggesting that this is relevant to whether he’s ‘an American’ or not?

    This really isn’t about Oblamebush eating dog when he was ten, it is all about countering the left re-bringing up the time Romney put their family dog in a car carrier and strapped it to the roof of the station-wagon.

    But I have the feeling your dishonest ass already knew that right?

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  4. Mississippi Yankee

    “The dog ate my birth certificate.”

    Kathy Shaidle is a Toronto freelance writer, editor, copywriter, author, web content provider, blogger, copywriter and social media manager

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  5. CM

    This really isn’t about Oblamebush eating dog when he was ten, it is all about countering the left re-bringing up the time Romney put their family dog in a car carrier and strapped it to the roof of the station-wagon.

    But I have the feeling your dishonest ass already knew that right?

    “This” is about SO saying: “I just look at this as yet more proof that, at his core, Obama isn’t an American.”
    Dishonesty would be try and suggest I was comparing their treatment of animals. That’s irrelevant to SO’s comment and my response.

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  6. Seattle Outcast

    If that were the case I don’t see how he could have been elected.

    It’s called “bait and switch” – you might want to look into it sometime.

    American’s ain’t that different from people across the world.

    Really? Then you obviously haven’t traveled very much. Even with my bit of world travel I can you that you statement is blatantly false.

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  7. CM

    It’s called “bait and switch” –

    If “he holds almost no common ground with most Americans” then who voted for him?
    There was plenty of attention given to why people shouldn’t have considered him ‘American enough’ before the election (McCain obviously had gotten tired of it when he responded forcefully to that woman at one of his townhall meetings – he was clearly quite embarrassed at it all)

    you might want to look into it sometime.

    Sorry, I’m not biting.

    Really? Then you obviously haven’t traveled very much. Even with my bit of world travel I can you that you statement is blatantly false.

    I’ve travelled plenty and have lived overseas.
    I’ve visited over 30 US states (2 trips, spending about 4 months in total).
    It really depends what we’re talking about.

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  8. Mississippi Yankee

    Hal, are your suggesting that there are facts in one of Obama’s two autobiographies that might be BS? Bill Ayres might could sue you over that allegation yanno.

    Ugh. This dog thing — both about Romney and Obama — may be the dumbest debate of the year.

    And do you realize “teh ri-dick-u-less” is still at it’s embryonic stage? You/we ain’t seen nothing yet.
    Think the Palin assault, three and a half years on and they still haven’t stopped digging.

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  9. CM

    There is a suggestion that Obama ‘s claim to eat dog was a bit of an exaggeration:

    As Obama gives no context to when/where he ate the dog meat, any attempt to try and make him out to be a liar smacks a little of desperation.

    The only context given is that it was “away from the dinner table“.

    Which suggest that Patrick at Popehat didn’t even read the relevant short passage when he speculates…

    Imagine this conversation around the Lolo family table:

    Again, imagine the conversation around the dinner table:

    The Breitbart link makes a big deal about it being eaten hundreds of miles from where Obama lived. But again, if it was eaten “away from the dinner table” it might not even have been in the same town/city. They could have been hundreds of miles away.

    Again, imagine the conversation around the dinner table:

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  10. richtaylor365

    If that were the case I don’t see how he could have been elected.

    CM, you have a much higher opinion of the “average voter” in this country then I do. Let’s revisit this. Between the monolithic black voting block, the liberal white folks who were looking for a venue to purge their guilt over slavery and assuage their fragile ego’s over the injustice of it all, the MSM who got dazzled and bogarted over the charisma of someone hip, then jumped on the bandwagon, and then McCain himself who will go down in history (bet me) as running the worst campaigns ever cobbled together, getting this “world citizen” elected was not that far fetched.

    I would posit that if the WH chef wrote a tell all where it was revealed that Obama still eats dog, even now, it would have little impact on the electorate. But I do find it kinda funny that you would go out of your way to qualify the allegation, like this is a serious chink in his Armour and that the opposition would really latch on to this and run with it. It would be just as silly as the dems trying to make hay over the nonsense about Romney strapping to the family pet to the hood of his car…………..oh, wait.

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  11. CM

    I’m trying to decipher the logic. The relevant original statements:

    I just look at this as yet more proof that, at his core, Obama isn’t an American.

    …his life experiences abroad have colored his value system to such an extent that he holds almost no common ground with most Americans.

    Perhaps I have a higher opinion of American value systems ? ;-)
    What is it about a boy eating ‘strange food’ that can be considered evidence that he’s not ‘American’?
    What are these values that are so foreign that it could be reasonably claimed that he “holds almost no common ground with most Americans”? If they were so very foreign to the point where he could even be consider non-American, then why did he get so much support? If the theory is that “because most people are idiots” (because they’ve clearly voted for someone who holds no common ground in terms of value systems), does that mean that idiocy is a “common ground” thing? (If so, does that mean he doesn’t share their idiocy?)
    Your video demonstrates an example of idiocy. Does this person represent someone who Obama “holds no common ground” with?
    I’m in no way trying to be offensive (just in case anyone takes offense). I’m struggling with the logic of the claim and wondered if someone would be able to clarify it.

    But I do find it kinda funny that you would go out of your way to qualify the allegation, like this is a serious chink in his Armour and that the opposition would really latch on to this and run with it. It would be just as silly as the dems trying to make hay over the nonsense about Romney strapping to the family pet to the hood of his car…………..oh, wait.

    The allegations raised in Hal’s link? There seems little sense in them (as I pointed out, it’s like they didn’t even actually read the relevant passage??!).
    I don’t think this is even remotely a “serious chink in his Armour”. And again, I made no comparison to Romney, or how any comparison is being made by others. But if we’re going down that road, should we be reading some sort of value-system into Romney’s actions? If so, do they demonstrate that he holds more common ground with most Americans? If so, how/why? If we shouldn’t be reading anything into it, how is something Obama did as a child able to be considered evidence?

    I’m more than happy to leave this alone, I just saw an opportunity for an interesting discussion. Not one that requires any abuse from anyone (again, just in case anyone assumes that’s what I’m looking for).

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  12. Seattle Outcast

    Sorry, I’m not biting.

    We all do consider you to be a bit on the slow side.

    Nor do we really give a crap about your horribly misinformed ideas about America – quite honestly, you appear to get your ideas from bad movies and the NYT. Anyway, there’s a chicken with your name on it, so get busy….

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  13. richtaylor365

    Using an existential scalpel to reveal anyone’s patriotism, his affinity for American hegemony, his love for mother country, his ethnocentrism if you will, is an exercise in futility. Much like all the personal investigations over one’s spirituality, whether he is a Christian or not, a fool’s errand. Yes, one can glean impressions in this area, relying on circumstantial evidence of what he wants to reveal, but much like his college transcripts, to some (including me to a degree) he is that whole riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma thing.

    Maybe this was all by design, to separate himself from his predecessor, who wore his patriotism on his sleeve and would go toe to toe with anyone disparaging America, Obama seems more a world citizen then an American to many. In Dinesh D’Souza’s book, The Roots Of Obama’s Rage, he paints a pretty thorough portrait of Obama’s upbringing, the influential people in his early life, and steady diet of Western imperialism as the root cause of most of society’s ills. We don’t know how much of this he retained, how much he still, holds as valid, if any, but D’souza’s central premise is that the real Obama is a man shaped by experiences far different from those of most Americans.

    Whether most voters are idiots, that misses the point. For many, it basically comes down to this:

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us

    Getting free shit is pretty enticing.

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  14. CM

    I really like your first paragraph, that sets it out pretty well.
    Your second explains a fair amount of what I’m asking about, so thanks for taking the time and effort for writing it. I guess I should mention that I’ve heard/read some pretty bad things about D’Souza’s book – I guess it’s another one of those examples of trying to work out what’s accurate and what isn’t in an obvious hit-piece (obviously it’s not a book attempting to be objective, it’s selling a narrative – just like hit-piece books written by liberals).
    I’m not sure whether that graph was put up for comedy purposes or not. It not, I don’t believe it’s accurate. Just like I don’t believe what an equivalent one about conservatives would no doubt try to suggest. Sure, there are people to the extreme on both sides, but adding those two extremes together is nothing compared to the numbers bunched somewhere in the middle (not based on theory but based on life experience). Obama is in the middle too, which is why he gained such large scale support. If enough people really did think he was too ‘different’ (I mean in addition to his racial ‘difference to all other histroical Presidential candidates) hen I still fail to see why he got support from so many people who consider themselves independents. Especially considering he was up against a moderate Republican that many non-Republicans had a great deal of respect for.

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  15. richtaylor365

    , it’s selling a narrative – just like hit-piece books written by liberals).

    Could be, saying that if the scuttlebutt is true, that if Obama is clueless about American exceptionalism, not knowing it if he stepped in it, and really believes that American policy through out the world has not been a force for good but lies as the root cause for most of the world’s ill’s, if he really does feel this way, then here are the reasons why.

    And yes, that graph is not scientific but comedic, but that is not to say it is not accurate and that many voters will vote strictly on “what’s in it for me?”.

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  16. Mississippi Yankee

    Alex Trebek, I’ll take Anonymous Failed Presidents for $100

    Answer: Three Dog Night

    Question: What was the Barack Obama famous for during the early 1970s.

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  17. HARLEY

    So O-B Won ate a frigging dog? has any on here had cat? possum, snake?> coon? what about horse… , but it does go to show that Obama grew up in a radically different culture than what the average American experienced. Without a doubt, that colored his world view….He did not grow up American….

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  18. Kimpost

    I find that notion laughable. You don’t have to grow up anywhere to understand a particular thing. Are San Francisco liberals Americans? Do they “understand” America? What does “understanding” Americans even mean? Aren’t you guys supposed to be individuals first? Not only first, but super-first.

    Looking from the outside in, I can tell you that Obama strikes me as very American. He’s got that cocky can-do-all attitude, as American leaders usually have. He’s openly religious, like American leaders usually are. He’s enacting an aggressive foreign policy, like US administrations usually are. He’s super pro-Israel, like you always are. Hell, he even likes basket ball and football, and judging by Bo, he doesn’t even eat dog anymore. ;)

    I sometimes eat horse, in the form of salami, on a sandwich. Not often, but it happens. Some eat it, others don’t. It’s a relatively small meat industry.

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  19. Seattle Outcast

    There are some foods that will define you:

    Snails & bugs – French

    Tarantula – Cambodian

    Alligator & crawdads – Southern (deep south)

    Horse – German

    Dog – barbarian

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  20. Seattle Outcast

    Are San Francisco liberals Americans?

    Not really. You can pretty much ask anyone outside of SF and they’ll tell you so.

    Do they “understand” America?

    Not in the slightest.

    What does “understanding” Americans even mean?

    On a gut level, without even thinking about it, identify with and comprehend the motivations of fellow Americans and what their general reactions and thoughts will be about the vast majority of situations.

    Aren’t you guys supposed to be individuals first? Not only first, but super-first.

    Which is why liberal asswipes from SF aren’t considered to be Americans – they’re a pack of socialists

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  21. Mississippi Yankee

    He’s openly religious, like American leaders usually are. He’s enacting an aggressive foreign policy, like US administrations usually are. He’s super pro-Israel, like you always are.

    Would you care to elaborate on any of the BS you wrote?

    He’s openly religious – ?

    aggressive foreign policy – where exactly? Perhaps Libya when we had no good reason to be there?

    He’s super pro-Israel – now you’re just actin’ da fool

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  22. bolly

    For a nice insight into San Fran I suggest Anthony bourdains no reservations and more recently, the layover— he gets wicked drunk in that episode. Lol,

    AB hates liberals and hippies, and hipsters, yet he shows San fran as a real hard working and hard drinking town. Worth a watch IMHO.

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  23. Kimpost

    He’s openly religious – ?

    It’s manifested all the time. If a politician here ever said “God bless Sweden”, then he would be thrown out of office (that includes members of the Christian Democrats). He’s also called for prayers in difficult circumstances, which of course is like asking for Santa Claus.

    …aggressive foreign policy – where exactly? Perhaps Libya when we had no good reason to be there?

    Libya, Afghanistan, drones, rendition, Guantanamo Bay…

    He’s super pro-Israel – now you’re just actin’ da fool

    Perspective. He’s clearly not a fan of Bibi, but let’s face it, that particular guy is controversial everywhere, Israel included. However, US under Obama, continues do offer Israel full support regarding just about anything. If Israel decides to attack Iran, US will be on-board. US military technology isn’t leaving Israeli soil anytime soon. And US will continue to use its veto in the Security Council blocking anything that could be considered negative towards Israeli interests. Sure US is using some political leverage trying to make Bibi stop expanding settlements, but there’s nobody’s even thinking about a boycott, or of removing military aid, or of freezing bank accounts. Friends don’t do that.

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  24. CM

    Yeah from this other outside perspective he’s quite American. Which is why the statement about the fact that he tried dog at about the age of 8 being further evidence of him not being an American comes across as quite strange.
    I’m sure millions of Americans have eaten something similar at some point.
    Personally, I’d prefer that my leaders have had experiences beyond the borders of this country. I would never consider that it makes them ‘un-New Zealand’ (that’s not even a concept AFAIK). I would assume it’s more likely to add to their ability to consider issues from a wider perspective. I.e. it’s more likely a positive rather than a negative.
    Like most things, it’s all a matter of fact and degree though.

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  25. richtaylor365

    Wow, Kim, for a foreigner and all (no disrespect meant) you usually have a pretty good handle on American affairs, but you whiffed this one big time.

    It’s manifested all the time. If a politician here ever said “God bless Sweden”, then he would be thrown out of office (that includes members of the Christian Democrats). He’s also called for prayers in difficult circumstances, which of course is like asking for Santa Claus.

    That’s means nothing, less then nothing. Saying “God bless America” is tradition, not a proclamation of faith. As stated before, I don’t join in the reindeer games of guessing whether a man is a Christian or not, but what you put forward does not prove anything. Obama plays golf on Sundays, and although making a public display of church going, with Bible in hand ala Bill Clinton also means nothing, to say that he is a “religious” man because he occasionally calls for prayers, is as phony as saying he must be a godless atheist because of his socialism, the dots just don’t connect.

    Libya, Afghanistan, drones, rendition, Guantanamo Bay…

    You really want to use those examples? Re: Libya, he was dragged kicking and screaming, and fashionably late to the table. We have heard the term “leading from the rear” by many of our allies. Yes, he is big on drones because he has painted himself into a corner if in fact we ever CAPTURE a terrorist, better to just kill them instead. The back of the hand he has offered to GB wrt the Falklands controversy, his total abandonment of Europe with the promised missile protection system, the tap dance with the Keystone Pipeline that left Canada scratching it’s head, I would submit that the general consensus among world leaders who are suppose to be on our side is that Obama is NOT a strong leader and not up to the “Pax Americana” that the world is use to.

    However, US under Obama, continues do offer Israel full support regarding just about anything.

    Hardly

    RJC Executive Director Matt Brooks said, “Pres. Obama proposes slashing funds for military aid specifically for Israel’s missile defense program, a joint U.S.-Israel effort over many years. This dramatic funding cut (18% below his 2011 request) would leave Israel vulnerable at a time when Israel faces serious rocket threats from Hamas in Gaza and from Hezbollah in Lebanon, and a growing nuclear threat from Iran. At this dangerous time, no true friend of Israel would talk about cutting funding to our joint missile defense programs with Israel.”

    Friends don’t do that.

    I’ll tell you what friends don’t do, they don’t stab their friends in the back. Sure, it may not be in our best interest if Israel bombs Iran, but it’s their call, and any talks involving us trying to dissuade them of this endeavor should be private and privileged. Not like what Obama and Penata have done, putting it out to the press that we really are trying to talk them out of it and that they would be ready to go with the attack by April, gee, how about we STFU about when they are ready to go. Then we have the leaking of the Azerbaijan base that was going to be used to refuel the Israeli bombers, so much for that idea, thanks Mr. President. Heck, he can’t even bring himself to admit that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

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  26. Mississippi Yankee

    Personally, I’d prefer that my leaders have had experiences beyond the borders of this country.

    So would I CM, but as it turns out Jug Hussein Ears’ only *experiences beyond the borders* was to have eaten dog.

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  27. CM

    So would I CM, but as it turns out Jug Hussein Ears’ only *experiences beyond the borders* was to have eaten dog.

    You’re not even trying anymore, that’s sad :(

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  28. hist_ed

    The dog war shows us how low and idiotic things are going to get. I don’t care if he has eaten dog and I don’t care that Romney put his dog on his roof. I care about an exploding deficit, crappy foreign policy, printing dollars like a third word shithole and the unemployment rate. But I bet well get more mileage on this dog story.

    So O-B Won ate a frigging dog? has any on here had cat? possum, snake?> coon? what about horse…

    Every year my wife and I have a big barbeque. Main attraction is ribs (8-10 racks), but the side dish is the amazing world famous hist_ed guess the critter chilli (with the meat of three animals not normally found in a grocery store). Usually it’s one bird, one mammal and one of something else.

    Best shock value was mountain lion, but we’ve had gator, goat, rabbit, emu, ostrich, venison, elk and probably a few others I can’t remember.

    Meat is meat. It’s shouldn’t be that big a deal.

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  29. Mississippi Yankee

    I care about an exploding deficit, crappy foreign policy, printing dollars like a third word shithole and the unemployment rate. But I bet well get more mileage on this dog story. </blockquote>

    I believe you’re starting to understand the “American” political process.

    (hint) it’s a lot like stage magic, entertaining until the next ‘shiny thing’ comes along.

    This clip speaks to their view of the masses too.
    Colonel Nathan R. Jessep Addresses the Court

    Had alligator boudin today for the first time last week (always had it fried before) It was even better than my favorite pork boudin.

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  30. CM

    That’s means nothing, less then nothing. Saying “God bless America” is tradition, not a proclamation of faith. As stated before, I don’t join in the reindeer games of guessing whether a man is a Christian or not, but what you put forward does not prove anything. Obama plays golf on Sundays, and although making a public display of church going, with Bible in hand ala Bill Clinton also means nothing, to say that he is a “religious” man because he occasionally calls for prayers, is as phony as saying he must be a godless atheist because of his socialism, the dots just don’t connect.

    Kimpost did start that paragraph with “It’s manifested all the time“, rather than “This proves it:”.

    David Brody of the Christian Broadcasting Network states that he has never seen a presidential candidate talk about his salvation in front of a crowd.

    For Obama to stand up and talk about how Jesus changed his life, my friends that takes guts. You may disagree with everything he’s about, you may disagree with his policy goals but as Christians, shouldn’t we like it when someone talks about Christ being the missing ingredient in his life?

    http://www.getreligion.org/2007/06/media-ignores-obamas-personal-testimony/

    Still ‘proves’ nothing, but if you look at the quote Brody is talking about….if Obama isn’t Christian he’s certainly getting into some serious made-up detail.

    Comparing Romney and Obama

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  31. CM

    BTW even though I’m not a Christian, I find this to be a very interesting discussion.

    Millions of white evangelical Protestants voted for Barack Obama in 2008.

    Millions of them. Millions of us. More than the combined total populations of Alaska, Delaware, Montana, the Dakotas, Vermont, Wyoming, Rhode Island and West Virginia. But for the most part, the fundraisers and vote-herders of the religious right have succeeded in getting the media to play along with the weird idea that these millions of people do not exist.

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  32. Mississippi Yankee

    Millions of white evangelical Protestants voted for Barack Obama in 2008.

    This speaks more to the gullibility of the hoi poloi left than to any other fact. Barak Obama was a totally unknown entity until he threw his hat in the presidential ring. From that point on there was a very serious lack of vetting from the MSM (Mostly Soros Media) or his own opponents. Hillary’s campaign started to question his past in the very beginning but that investigation was curtailed while still in it’s infancy. Were promises made? I certainly believe so but only time will tell.

    At the end of the day several million white democrats (out of 308,745,538 in 2998) voted with their party, independents, being intentionally less informed than they would like, voted for “Hope-n-Change. How do you think the indies will vote now that they see that the Mocha Messiah is,in fact, a dog eating, smug, in over his ‘pay grade, Marxist muslim?

    /disclaimer- some hyperbole and puns included/
    Yanno, sorta like when this jerk used these states for population totals? Disingenuous much??

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  33. richtaylor365

    Kimpost did start that paragraph with “It’s manifested all the time“, rather than “This proves it:”.

    After stating:

    He’s openly religious, like American leaders usually are

    .

    While qualifying it with examples of saying “God Bless America”, and “calling for prayers in difficult circumstances”, he thinks this means something, I don’t.

    Still ‘proves’ nothing, but if you look at the quote Brody is talking about….if Obama isn’t Christian he’s certainly getting into some serious made-up detail.

    The first comment in your link pretty much calls him out as having a selective memory. Just about all president in my lifetime have talked about their faith, Carter, Clinton, both Bushes, even Nixon. When attending a religious gathering (as Obama was with this example) it is very easy for the speaker’s faith to “manifest itself”.

    And considering that his come to Jesus moment was in the church of Rev. Wright (who I place on par in God’s eyes with Fred Phelps) I’m not impressed. But I hope he was genuine.

    Millions of white evangelical Protestants voted for Barack Obama in 2008.

    And this means what exactly?

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  34. CM

    he thinks this means something, I don’t.

    Kimpost, perhaps you could elaborate? I assumed you’d be thinking about more than just those examples?

    The first comment in your link pretty much calls him out as having a selective memory.

    First in the link, or first comment in the quote at the link?

    Just about all president in my lifetime have talked about their faith, Carter, Clinton, both Bushes, even Nixon. When attending a religious gathering (as Obama was with this example) it is very easy for the speaker’s faith to “manifest itself”.

    True, which is kinda why I was surprised to find a response that seemed to be far beyond the ‘oh, gee, a candidate is trying to convince us that he’s religious”. But yeah, possible that it’s all made-up……after all, to have any chance, it’s a fundamental requirement.

    But I hope he was genuine.

    As you say, we’ll never really know.

    And this means what exactly?

    The point being made was in the last quoted line. The standard narrative is that religious people vote Republican. But there is a religious left section of the population. The piece is about ‘De-legitimizing Christians outside the evangelical tribe’
    Anyway, it’s OT, just something I came across and found interesting (possibly more so because I’m not religious). I also see that I failed to provide the link.
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/04/16/de-legitimizing-christians-outside-the-evangelical-tribe/

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  35. richtaylor365

    First in the link, or first comment in the quote at the link?

    It was the first of the 19 responses:

    While I certainly respect Obama for his open faith, David Brody has a short memory if he doesn’t remember how often GW Bush has brought up the influence Jesus has had on his life. Also:

    “You may disagree with everything he’s about, you may disagree with his policy goals but as Christians, shouldn’t we like it when someone talks about Christ being the missing ingredient in his life?”

    Maybe, but I hope he isn’t implying that means instant support for him as a candidate, any more than the religious left should instantly support Bush. For that matter, I would hope that Muslims don’t instantly support a certain bearded fellow whose name unfortunately resembles Obama’s just because he wears his faith on his sleeve.

    I’m a faithful Protestant, but I’d vote for a Catholic, Mormon, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, atheist, or Pastafarian over a fellow believer if our policies lined up better. Faith has little to do with politics (or should, anyway).

    I hold pretty much the same view. Issues matter to me, faith does not. Any of those faiths he mentioned, does not matter to me. Although, I could not vote for a Muslim unless he categorically denied any adherence to Sharia and all that nonsense about world domination.

    The point being made was in the last quoted line. The standard narrative is that religious people vote Republican.

    From your link:

    A 78-percent majority of Americans is Christian. Only about a third of them self-identify as evangelical, which is a very rough proxy for the Christian conservative minority that increasingly insists on being called, simply, “Christian.

    Which negates any specious claim that “religious people” vote Republican. Admitting to being a Christian for many simply involves a belief in God, hardly adequate if we are to use the requirements as defined in the Bible. Your link makes a clear distinction between being a Christian and being an “Evangelical”, one is not the same as the other. Factor in all the Jews, the Catholics and all the other faiths that went Obama, and it’s easy to see that lumping “religious people” politically is about as helpful as lumping all left handed people politically.

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  36. Kimpost

    That’s means nothing, less then nothing. Saying “God bless America” is tradition, not a proclamation of faith. As stated before, I don’t join in the reindeer games of guessing whether a man is a Christian or not, but what you put forward does not prove anything.

    A tradition, sure, but manifestation nevertheless, you just don’t think it means much (anything). Try to imagine the outcry if he didn’t use “God bless America”. He’d be slaughtered, and you guys would be all over him for his “apparent war on religion”. *sigh*That aside, a man probably wouldn’t stand before crowds telling them of how he came of faith, if it didn’t happen. Personally, I’d prefer if a leader didn’t say such things, even in front of religious crowds. Religion should be kept personal. Obama clearly doesn’t agree with me.

    […] to say that he is a “religious” man because he occasionally calls for prayers, is as phony as saying he must be a godless atheist because of his socialism, the dots just don’t connect.

    I saw that, you sneaky you… ;)

    Re: Libya, he was dragged kicking and screaming, and fashionably late to the table. We have heard the term “leading from the rear” by many of our allies.

    Dragged in kicking and screaming? I don’t agree. He jumped on it, when he saw that it could be done with relative ease.” Leading from behind” was his way of dealing with the war tired US population.

    Yes, he is big on drones because he has painted himself into a corner if in fact we ever CAPTURE a terrorist, better to just kill them instead.

    What corner is that? Guantanamo’s still open. Rendition is in full flight. So he can’t torture them at home anymore, big deal.

    The back of the hand he has offered to GB wrt the Falklands controversy[…]

    Regardless of (previous) crappy gifts and and the administration’s stumbling over the “Maldives”, as well as being genuinely (and overly) diplomatic on the Falklands, I’m quite confident that the UK administration knows where the US loyalties are. :) If you’d ask the general population who’d they prefer wining the upcoming election, I would suspect Obama winning by a landslide.

    […] his total abandonment of Europe with the promised missile protection system

    We don’t feel abandoned. A few do, but an overwhelming majority here thinks that there are more pressing concerns than Russian or Iranian(?) missiles. Save your money and resources, these are tough times, after all.

    […] the tap dance with the Keystone Pipeline that left Canada scratching it’s head,

    You really think that you are losing Canada? Who do you think their population would vote for, if they had the chance? Keystone is internal US politics, no more no less, and will happen just a little bit later. Canadians understand that.

    I would submit that the general consensus among world leaders who are suppose to be on our side is that Obama is NOT a strong leader and not up to the “Pax Americana” that the world is use to.

    I disagree, but having said that I do think that world leaders see a difference between Obama and George W. One is a better diplomat… Pax Americana is either dead or dying, good riddance. Nothing good come from dominance, not even seemingly benign dominance.

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  37. Kimpost

    I’ll tell you what friends don’t do, they don’t stab their friends in the back. Sure, it may not be in our best interest if Israel bombs Iran, but it’s their call, and any talks involving us trying to dissuade them of this endeavor should be private and privileged. Not like what Obama and Penata have done, putting it out to the press that we really are trying to talk them out of it and that they would be ready to go with the attack by April, gee, how about we STFU about when they are ready to go. Then we have the leaking of the Azerbaijan base that was going to be used to refuel the Israeli bombers, so much for that idea, thanks Mr. President. Heck, he can’t even bring himself to admit that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

    Fact: Obama signs off on more money to military aid every year, regardless of his budget proposals.

    If it isn’t in your best interest then I would imagine that the administration has tried talking to the Israelis behind the curtains. Now, if those talks fail, it’s not unusual to use leaks in an effort to apply public pressure.

    When it comes to Jerusalem it is a two state capital. It’s wise of the administration to tread lightly around that issue. Having said that I’ve heard Obama say that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, and that it shouldn’t be divided. I share that view. Jerusalem should be the shared capital of Israel and Palestine.

    I’ve never heard Obama say that Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine, though. The day he does, he’ll receive nothing but praise from right-wing Americans, I’m sure.

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  38. AlexInCT *

    I’ve never heard Obama say that Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine, though. The day he does, he’ll receive nothing but praise from right-wing Americans, I’m sure.

    Google “Obama Administration Jerusalem” and you will find tons of links with by independent bloggers, the LSM has had no interest in reporting this as it usually does with anything that harms the narrative about Obama being a genius and a foreign policy guru, showing member after member of the Obama Administration going out of their way to NOT say Jerusalem is part of Israel. That refusal to say Jerusalem is part of Israel for all intents and purposes makes it pretty obvious that Team Obama believes Jerusalem or parts of it belong to the Palestinian mass murderers. You are partially right when you point out that this macabre and insane dance by team Obama and many other idiots in the west that still have not caught on that the only reason for the current pretense of a Palestinian entity is to legitimize their “kill the Jews” agenda, doesn’t automatically make Jerusalem the capital of Palestine, but it certainly is meant to give mass murdering Palestinians hope and bolster their believe they have support for and a chance to drive the Jews into the ocean.

    The west has shamefully kept pretending that the Palestinian mass murderers have a legitimate argument because they need to curry favor with the oil producing Arab nations that power Europe, and we will all pay for not squashing this cult of death a long time ago. I firmly believe that we are where we are today because the usual Jew haters of the world have glommed on to what they call the Palestinian plight, in order to hide their true motives and beliefs. Any people that love death as much as the Palestinians do, they send their kids to kill and die, for cash I remind you, and people then equate this to a noble struggle, a fight between a David and a Goliath, are a plague upon humanity. But they are not as bad or vile as the people that give their cause credence and legitimacy.

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  39. richtaylor365

    Try to imagine the outcry if he didn’t use “God bless America”.

    Well of course, that is why they call them traditions; it is traditional to say “God Bless America” in major speeches. I’m sure even Swedes have traditions that if discontinued or omitted would invoke a clamor, but as evidence of a man’s particular faith? Nonsense. I get that our religious heritage seems peculiar to many in the rest of the world, bothersome? Not to me, but it is there non the less. The great speeches of our history, from Washington’s Christmas Day message, The Gettysburg Address, Kennedy’s Inaugural Address, even Jefferson threw him in for effect, has invoked the hand of God, both in our creation and our destiny, that is tradition.

    a man probably wouldn’t stand before crowds telling them of how he came of faith, if it didn’t happen.

    You can believe that if you like. Candidates say all kinds of things on the campaign trail. As I said before, I hope he was genuine and leave it at that.

    Dragged in kicking and screaming? I don’t agree. He jumped on it, when he saw that it could be done with relative ease.” Leading from behind” was his way of dealing with the war tired US population.

    The Libya intervention was a NATO affair, and if we did not have the muscle (the hardware, software and the means to punch) they would have probably left it that way.

    I’m quite confident that the UK administration knows where the US loyalties are. :)

    I’ll let Nile Gardner address your confidence. Heck, Obama still can’t figure out what side he is on wrt to the Falklands even now.

    And as far as the Brits still loving Obama and think he deserves a second term, I’ll let the Brits speak for themselves.

    You really think that you are losing Canada?

    I didn’t say that. The topic was Obama alienating our friends by apparently not well thought out decisions.

    Pax Americana is either dead or dying, good riddance.

    Fine, but isn’t that in direct contrast to what you have said here on this blog many times, that a strong vibrant and fiscally sound America is actually good for the rest of the world? That America does lead, whether they like it or not, and it’s influence around the world is quite necessary? Come on, you have intimated such many times.

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  40. Kimpost

    We have all kinds of weird traditions (everyone should attend a traditional Swedish mid-summer). My point however, was that if Obama were to exclude “God bless America”, it wouldn’t be war on tradition, It would be war on religion. That’s how divided you are.

    And as far as the Brits still loving Obama and think he deserves a second term, I’ll let the Brits speak for themselves.

    Since article polls usually can’t even be used as indicators, I guess we’ll have to wait for real polls. The last one I saw, from the summer of 2011, had his approval ratings at over 70%. Obama has held freakishly high approval ratings in Europe. They are dropping to more natural levels, but my estimation is that they are still very high.

    Fine, but isn’t that in direct contrast to what you have said here on this blog many times, that a strong vibrant and fiscally sound America is actually good for the rest of the world? That America does lead, whether they like it or not, and it’s influence around the world is quite necessary? Come on, you have intimated such many times.

    Pax Americana to me is leading by dominance, which IMO, is dead. I prefer leading by cooperation and mutual respect. I absolutely do want US to prosper, and think that it is vital to the global economy. Your political and cultural reach is undisputed. Lead wisely, and the rest will follow. Even whiny Swedes…

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  41. JimK

    and you guys would be all over him for his “apparent war on religion”.

    What guys?

    Because you’re talking to the people at RTFTLC, a significant portion of whom are non-religious. Some are anti-religion. In fact if someone forced me to, I’d put money on a larger percentage of this readership being *at best* apathetic about religion over the actual faithful. (And yes, I know that’s out of step with the percentages across the nation).

    “you guys” must mean the MSM and other idiot politicians, because it sure ain’t the guys you’re actually talking to.

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  42. AlexInCT *

    Pax Americana is either dead or dying, good riddance.

    I sure hope the anti Americans enjoy the world when China runs it and shafts them all. At least there is going to be some justice whenever China brutally imposes what benefits them first and foremost, with no care for anyone else, kind of like they are doing in Africa these days, and these idiots suffer from it.

    At least China’s neighbors are aware that no matter how bad your opinion of Pax Americana, nobody ever, has done more good for the world, and them, but more importantly, that when that is over and replaced, they all will be worse off for it. You jealous/envious Europeans aren’t even bright enough to catch on.

    This just reminds me of the people that hate capitalism or democracy: they don’t get that for all its faults, no other system works better, and the tyrannical systems that they would otherwise push have a record that make whatever wrongs you want to blame either capitalism or democracy for, look near angelic in comparison. Fuck, how many examples of collectivism gone awry do we need? How many more millions killed or billions imprisoned by tyrants that use them as cattle? How many more evils masquerading as good do we need from the collectivist before people realize that no matter how envious they are of what others have, the collectivist model simply is a recipe for misery on a global scale? Man, I hate stupid and envious people.

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  43. Mississippi Yankee

    Yes, I meant conservatives more than libertarians, and the general right you, more than you-you.

    ♪♫Shifting your shadows of blame♫♪

    Pilgrim Chapter #33
    Kris Kristofferson

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