The Trayvon Martin case revisited.

Well, it now is starting to look to me like we where all had by histrionics and the usual LSM bullshit that is used to capitalize on anything that helps the left push their “America is an evil racist country” and “Guns are evil” narrative. As others come forth to give details about the Trayvon Martin incident, it is starting to look like those that piled on the police for not doing a thorough investigation, where also way off base.

The case that this was just some guy that wanted to pop someone and use this law to get away with it, as the slew of LSM stories furiously implied for the last week, seems to be non-existent, as the evidence the police looked at to come to the conclusion that nothing was out of order here, clearly shows that Zimmerman was in a fight and was in danger. The whole race argument seems to be demolished as well when you find out that Zimmerman himself is Hispanic, and has many black friends, including some that are coming forth to say they can not believe Zimmerman capable of being motivated by racism based on their personal experience with him. We are now even being told the voice screaming for help during the 9-11 call is Zimmerman’s, and I am sure voice analysis during any conclusive investigation, will deliver a verdict on that.

The arguments put forth that this was somehow people trying to sweep this case under the rug because of racist motives, and that this law was ripe for abuse by haters, now that cooler heads are prevailing, clearly show us that had we allowed the usual suspects to use emotion to push their agenda that we all would have lost. Trayvon’s death is a tragedy, but it isn’t looking like a hate crime, the actions of a trigger happy gunman hiding behind a self defense law the usual anti-gun crowds despise, the police being negligent in their investigation, or a combination of all of that, like the people that wanted to go after the law, told us all last week.

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  1. Hal_10000

    1) This is a statement from Zimmerman’s attorney. Did you expect to say, “Oh, yeah, my client totally shot a harmless guy!”? The fact that he was injured is interesting, but doesn’t prove anything. If he initiated a physical confrontation, he’s still culpable.

    2) There *is* a problem here because, even in cases of clear self defense, the police usually will question the guy, take him into custody, consider potential charges. Indeed, the biggest objection to Florida’s law is that it allows prosecutorial immunity. There is a great deal of evidence that they ignored witnesses who clouded the self-defense picture.

    This may end up him being able to claim self-defense still. But let’s not proclaim we’ve found the truth because of what they guy’s lawyer is saying.

    The case for gun control does continue to collapse however. Since Stand Your Ground was passed, Florida’s rate of gun violence has continued to fall in pace with the rest of the country.

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  2. balthazar

    A broken nose and stitches in the back of your head is slightly more than “injured”.

    The guy was probably taken at his word on the scene since he needed to go to the hospital for multiple head injuries.

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  3. Hal_10000

    more reporting on this. If true, it does cast the case in a different light:

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager

    I realize the liberals will never back down. But if Zimmerman is accurate that Martin was slamming his head into the ground, that completely changes the narrative. He was still reckless, but I a murder/homicide charges would seem a stretch.

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  4. sahrab

    The issue i still struggle with is Zimmerman being told to stand down the police are responding. If he continued to pursue Trayvon he is the aggressor.

    For the record i’ve never relied upon the Racial BS aspect, my issue was with Zimmerman continuing to pursue the kid, when he was not at risk (before he was told to stand down).

    Hal’s story still leads to Zimmerman pursuing Trayvon and initiating the confrontation (he pursued the kid, then states he was returning to the SUV when the kid confronted him). He (zimmerman) was not in danger until he initiated it.

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  5. Seattle Outcast

    To me this is nothing more than Obama & company attempting to use race as an election issue. In the greater scheme of things this would not be getting this level of attention if it were not an election year.

    So far Ulsterman has been batting 1000 on Obama’s re-election shenanigans. I expect to see more of this type of BS as the summer unfolds.

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  6. balthazar

    Hal’s story still leads to Zimmerman pursuing Trayvon and initiating the confrontation (he pursued the kid, then states he was returning to the SUV when the kid confronted him). He (zimmerman) was not in danger until he initiated it.

    This does not matter. If someone is slamming your head into the ground, you are DEAD if you lose consciousness most likely.

    Initiating an encounter, IE saying what the hell are you doing here… etc. is NOT worthy of getting your head slammed into the ground.

    The reasons for the non arrest are more clear now, there still should be more of an investigation, and charges filed if necessary.

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  7. Seattle Outcast

    Unfortunately for Trayvon, the story is slanting more and more toward him actually being the instigator. Aside from Zimmerman showing signs of assault & witnesses that backup the initial version of events, Trayvon’s reputation is getting a bit more sullied with drugs, and expulsion from school.

    Was he casing the neighborhood? I give it better than even odds.

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  8. AlexInCT *

    I realize the liberals will never back down. But if Zimmerman is accurate that Martin was slamming his head into the ground, that completely changes the narrative. He was still reckless, but I a murder/homicide charges would seem a stretch.

    THIS ^^^^

    Let them investigate, especially now that people have gotten all emotional about this, but let us all hold off on demanding the law be changed or Zimmerman be lynched for political gain. Can you imagine how much worse this would have been if Zimmerman had not been Hispanic though? Think hard about that and justice being served.

    I certainly would like the details of what really went down. And yes, Zimmerman was told to back down by police, but we have no idea if he tried to do that and was in turn accosted. Or if he actually asked Trayvon what he was doing and was jumped and had to defend himself. Or even if he started the fight and then was forced to respond with deadly force when Trayvon got to kicking his ass. Frankly none of those scenarios really make the self defense shooting justification go away, once he started getting his head slammed into the floor and his nose was broken, because he was fearing for his life, although in the last scenario I can see why Zimmerman needs to be held accountable for that.

    As the details are coming out, we also find out that Trayvon was not the angel they worked so hard to portray him as. In fact, the case can be made that he had no reason to be there unless he was up to no good and he has an established pattern of being no good. I am far less certain we will get these details though, because this doesn’t suit either the narrative or the agenda.

    At least the people trying to deprive us of the right to use arms for self defense are going to have a much harder argument to make now that the emotional appeals are coming apart.

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  9. hist_ed

    The issue i still struggle with is Zimmerman being told to stand down the police are responding. If he continued to pursue Trayvon he is the aggressor.

    Do you really think that police have the legal pwoer to tell someone not to walk in his neighborhood? Remember he was talking to a 911 operator over the phone.

    Following someone on public streets does not make you an “aggressor” nor does it mean you deserve to get punched.

    We did get the joy of seeing our president once again inserting himself into a racially charged incident and making it worse. Apparently, because any son the Obama’s might have had might have looked like Trayvon means that Trayvon’s skin is more valuable than the rest of our’s. Someone should really ask Obama what he meant by that. Is he the president of black America first? Maybe he needs to invite Zimmerman to the White House for a beer.

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  10. Hal_10000

    The left is already responding, claiming that the evil Right WIng media is lynching Trayvon for talking about him. There’s been stuff beyond the pale — some fake pictures and baseless accusations. But they are laying the groundwork for simply dismissing any attempt to muddy the issue.

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  11. Mississippi Yankee

    What’s not been mentioned much is that Trayvon Martin was 6’2″ and had been a football player before his expulsion. He was not the frail child pictured in the protest posters.

    But I take great solace in the belief that Dick Chaney received Trayvon’s heart.
    USA USA USA

    Let the humorless comments begin.

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  12. Poosh

    You know, I think of myself as quite on-the-mark when it comes to liberal/leftist bias, but I found myself fooled and tooled on this issue.

    The cute little innocent pic of the victim (or “victim”) that was on every tv bulletin was such a media 101 trick, can’t believe I allowed it to affect me and cloud my reason.

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  13. Mississippi Yankee

    I realize the liberals will never back down. But if Zimmerman is accurate that Martin was slamming his head into the ground, that completely changes the narrative. He was still reckless, but I a murder/homicide charges would seem a stretch.

    And yet…

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  14. Hal_10000

    Jesus, Charles Johnson has lost what was left of us mind on this. He’s blaming Stand Your Ground laws on the Tea Party. Floridas SYG was from 2005 and the principle goes back over a century in case law. What a fuckng dunce,

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  15. amlorusso

    Or even if he started the fight and then was forced to respond with deadly force when Trayvon got to kicking his ass. Frankly none of those scenarios really make the self defense shooting justification go away,”

    We can talk about proportionality, but it’s contradictory for the initial aggressor to claim self-defence or being “forced to respond with deadly force”. In the scenario that Zimmerman initiates the aggression [speculation I know], why is Martin “kicking the ass” of Zimmerman not justifiable self defence, especially given the “stand your ground” law. If Zimmerman initiated the aggression, under such a law, Martin “kicking his ass” would have been justified. Imagine a mugging victim being shot and killed after he tried to “kick the ass” of the mugger.

    Zimmerman’s injuries do not automatically exonerate him of any wrong-doing, and by pursuing Martin for zero justifiable reasons, Zimmerman, morally took the first step in escalating the situation to it’s deadly conclusion.

    As always we await the judicial process to do the best it can (we hope) to figure this out.

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  16. Kimpost

    I don’t know about you guys, but I never thought that Zimmerman just ran up to Martin and shot him in the face. There was very likely some kind of confrontation involved. Did Zimmerman follow Martin at all? We don’t even know that. And if he did, he still didn’t deserve to get punched. Now if we are to continue with our speculations (and why not?), then perhaps Martin didn’t deserve do be followed by a running armed man either (if it ever happened). Perhaps Martin freaked because of that and attacked Zimmerman in what he regarded as self-defense? It’s entirely possible that both guys thought they were fighting for their lives, and that all this was the result of a tragic accident. I just wish that people weren’t fucking armed all the time.

    People organising rallies, calling for actual arrests or new laws at this moment are just ridiculous. All I ever wanted was a proper investigation, simply because the initial reports indicated that that perhaps didn’t happen.

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  17. Mississippi Yankee

    I just wish that people weren’t fucking armed all the time.

    WHY? Is there a lot of gun violence in Sweden?

    Here we’ve found that liberal (in the classic sense) gun laws save lives. In the US murders and violent crime has been falling for several years. The only exceptions are large inner-cities (which by and large have stricter gun laws), like NYC, Baltimore, Detroit, Philadelphia, CHICAGO, KC, Boston, New Orleans. But that shit don’t play in the suburbs.

    An armed society is a polite society. It’s a shame some dumb fucks never get the message… but then again their gene pool is quickly chlorinated.
    Might be that lesson was taught after Trayvon was expelled… for breaking the law.

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  18. Mississippi Yankee

    Jesus, Charles Johnson has lost what was left of us mind on this…. What a fuckng dunce,

    Bwaaaahaha, sadly he always was, he got a slight twinge of patriotism after 911 but went directly back to being a totalitarian twat soon after. I go way back with that fool.

    I thought everyone to the right of John Kerry was banned from there.

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  19. Seattle Outcast

    contradictory for the initial aggressor to claim self-defence or being “forced to respond with deadly force”.

    Which doesn’t make sense in this case because it would appear the that Martin was the initial aggressor. Zimmerman was fucking leaving the scene when attacked, and following somebody and calling 911 does not qualify as “aggression”.

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  20. Kimpost

    I don’t want to make this about gun control, because I do understand the cultural differences. It’s just that I wonder if not too many people are carrying guns, even if they don’t really “need” them. I would like to see that people voluntarily chose to compromise on their own personal safety, for the greater good. I’m not asking for bans.

    Fights don’t usually end up with dead people if knives and guns aren’t involved. It happens, but you usually don’t even loose a tooth before the pathetic excuse of a wrestling match is over.

    WHY? Is there a lot of gun violence in Sweden?

    Too much, I’m sure.

    Here we’ve found that liberal (in the classic sense) gun laws save lives. In the US murders and violent crime has been falling for several years. The only exceptions are large inner-cities (which by and large have stricter gun laws), like NYC, Baltimore, Detroit, Philadelphia, CHICAGO, KC, Boston, New Orleans. But that shit don’t play in the suburbs.

    I don’t think that the stats are clear on that. Stricter gun laws, or less strict gun laws for that matter, do not appear in a vacuum. Correlation does not always imply causation. And again, I don’t want to ban guns in the US.

    An armed society is a polite society. It’s a shame some dumb fucks never get the message… but then again their gene pool is quickly chlorinated.

    Generally I don’t think that politeness should stem out of a fear of getting shot. People should be polite because it’s right. You know, kumbaya and all…

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  21. balthazar

    Shoulda, woulda, coulda, Kim, the facts are, people arnt nice. People dont “behave” unless its in their best interest to do so.

    If there are immediate consequences to misbehavior, people act appropriately more often. Cops get there to clean up the mess, they dont “prevent” crime anymore as they are sitting in thier cars waiting for a call. There are very few police forces that “walk a beat” anymore.

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  22. Xetrov

    I would like to see that people voluntarily chose to compromise on their own personal safety, for the greater good. I’m not asking for bans.

    If you can talk every criminal into voluntarily choosing to give up their own criminal behavior for the greater good, I’m with you.

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  23. AlexInCT *

    I’ll get right on that.

    Now you are just gunning – pardon the pun considering this post’s subject – for people to put you into the same category as great achievers like Obama whom got a peace prize while being a complete unknown, but just not Boosh-Hitler,before going on to start several other wars.

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  24. Miguelito

    I love that Chuck Schumer essentially said that “Stand your ground” laws are a new concept and are a bad idea. What a complete crock of shit. In the history of basically the entire planet, the opposite is really the norm. It’s only been in recent history that laws reversing what were really the norn in self defense ideals were passed and many people’s minds changed.

    Hell, people used to kill each other in duels that people felt were justified if both parties had a real beef with each other.

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  25. hist_ed

    Uhh Kim, if Zimmerman’s story is true (and at least one witness and some physical evidence corroborate it), then Trayvon was slamming the back of his head into a curb when he shot him. How many times do you think the back of Zimmerman’s head could have stood up to this before he was dead?

    Let’s say that Zimmerman’s account is how it went down. If Zimmerman were unarmed, he would likely be dead now. Is that a better result?

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  26. Kimpost

    Let’s say that Zimmerman’s account is how it went down. If Zimmerman were unarmed, he would likely be dead now. Is that a better result?

    I don’t believe that. Had Zimmerman been unarmed he might have called the 911 and then gone home to get a sandwich (losing the security of the gun). Further, Martin might not have been spooked (if he was) by an un-armed guy running (at least initially) after him. Or he might not have felt a need to bang the man’s head to the curb (if he did), if he didn’t feel that his life was threatened (if he felt that).

    The list of “if’s” is plentiful. What we do know is that one unarmed kid is dead. I think that it’s likely that his death was a tragic accident resulting from two people freaking out. Why would Martin jump an armed man otherwise? To get his wallet? To get street cred from his “gang banging” friends? Let the investigation pan out. It just sickens me that a kid did end up dead for no apparent real reason. This wasn’t gang banger getting shot at a scene of a robbery, after all.

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  27. hist_ed

    This wasn’t gang banger getting shot at a scene of a robbery, after all.

    You don’t know that. It is certainly one of the possibilities and not the most remote.

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  28. Aussiesmurf

    The pretzels the right-wing engage in here are amazing. Why haven’t any of you suggested that this whole situation would have been avoided if Martin was also armed? Isn’t that the de facto argument in this situation?

    Further, let’s say that Zimmerman’s outlandish story is true – he followed someone while armed, and that person attacked him. How in that situation are Martin’s actions not self-defence? Who gives a damn whether Martin was 185 cm. or 170cm?

    It takes some cojones to argue that someone shooting an unarmed child in the back constitutes self-defence and didn’t even merit a police investigation.

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  29. Mississippi Yankee

    Why haven’t any of you suggested that this whole situation would have been avoided if Martin was also armed?

    Trayvon wasn’t old enough to legally own a firearm. Zimmerman was and also owned a CCW license. He was also part of a Neighborhood Watch patrol in a gated community.
    At first I thought you were just disingenuous but then…

    It takes some cojones to argue that someone shooting an unarmed child in the back constitutes self-defence and didn’t even merit a police investigation.

    You dishonest cunt!

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