Useful Idiots

Although Lenin gets credit (probably not deserved) for coining the phrase, the basic premise reveals mountains concerning the human condition. I always liked the phrase ,”The path to Hell is paved with good intentions”, another window which we can peer through, but to get seemingly good/honest people to do your bidding, to garner unwitting support for a malignant cause through charitable/peaceful acts, genius.

The latest example of a truly useful idiot comes from Hollywood land, where idiots rule and high falutin’ causes pointed anywhere near world peace and understanding, beating those swords into plowshares, are de rigueur:

Sean Stone, son of controversial director Oliver Stone, converted to Islam in Iran last week and says he’s already experiencing a Hollywood backlash.

Maybe the “backlash” he is experiencing has more to do with the dogma practiced in Hollywood as learned through the old USSR, that religion of any kind is a weakness and a disease, the sooner eradicated the better.

I consider myself a Jewish Christian Muslim.

Now I want to give him a hug, how noble and worldly (and stupid). I’m trying to wrap my brain around that. The Koran teaches that all infidels should be killed, umm, does that mean that the Muslim side of him wants to kill the Christian side? This is like saying that you are a both liberal and conservative, a vegan and a carnivore, can like Kate Upton and Marrisa Miller (OK, that one is a bit hazy).

Interesting that he chose a country like Iran to convert to that religion of peace, the same country that has probably more blood on it’s hands (through it’s backing and support of every terrorist organization on the planet) and that same place where the destruction of Israel and all Jews in general stokes their nuclear ambitions.

Here is Sean on The Factor last night, Ahmadinejad is just misunderstood, yeah, that’s it.

“I don’t care if I get criticized. If I can open up a debate about religion and create some understanding, then it is worth it.”

They aren’t criticizing you, they are laughing at you, laughing at your stupidity naivete. First off, to think that you converting to Islam will somehow make for a better world, a world more peaceful and tolerant, that is just goofy, and sooooooooo Hollywood.

But here is the bigger picture, wake the eff up, those Iranian enablers of yours would separate your head from your neck if it not for your conversion, and just remember, don’t even think about changing your mind, they are the exact antitheses of “pro choice”, their dopey apostasy laws mandate that you lose your life if you have a change of heart. Obviously, Sean, you did not think this one out very well.

And why the trip to terrorist land for his conversion, he couldn’t find any Islamic mosques here in America?

Comments are closed.

  1. Kimpost

    The Koran teaches that all infidels should be killed, umm […]

    Yet, another casual dig on Islam. I find those intellectually lazy, and extremely dull. There are only two ways to addressing religion. Either you accept the religious interpretations of the good practitioners of said religion as “TRUE [insert name of religion here]”, or you tell ALL religious people to go fuck themselves, based on the notion that there is an absolute definition of what any religion really is, and that you actually know what that definition is (absurd notion, wouldn’t you say?).

    Islam is what the individual Muslim says it is. Christianity is what the individual Christian says it is. Now we could intellectualize that, and disagree because of our personal interpretations of religious texts and traditions, but that was not what you were doing. You casually stated that “the Koran teaches that all infidels should be killed”. That’s just as stupid as suggesting that the Bible teaches that all homosexuals should be stoned. My guess is that you would object to that, wouldn’t you?

    I have little regard for any religion. Certainly not Islam, which I believe serves as a useful tool for dictatorships throughout the Middle East. But that’s besides the point. You, or anyone else for that matter, claiming that it teaches the killing of Infidels, is just wrong. It doesn’t. Not according to hundreds of millions of Muslims.

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  2. sahrab

    The Koran teaches that all infidels

    just to nitpick, the Koran/Q’uran teachings on infidels is no better/worse than both the Jewish Torah and Christian Bible (both the prequel and sequel) towards non-believers.

    Yes, you can pull a Matthew 5:44 or Luke 6:27 passage, but will you ignore the multitude of passaages against the Jews? How about Mathew 10:34-36, Mathew 11:20-24, Mark 6:11, Luke 11:23, 2 Corinthians 6:14-17, 2 Timothy 2:16, Titus 3:10-11, 1 John 2:22, 4:2-3, 2 John 10, and specifically Hebrews 10:28-29, Deuteronomy 13:6-10 (remember Jesus tells us in Mathew 5:18-19 that the Old Testament laws are forever)

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  3. Seattle Outcast

    Religion = Insanity

    Made it simple for you. The more religion anyone has, the crazier they are, and increases their prospects of criminal behavior.

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  4. AlexInCT

    just to nitpick, the Koran/Q’uran teachings on infidels is no better/worse than both the Jewish Torah and Christian Bible (both the prequel and sequel) towards non-believers.

    The difference is that the later two left behind those practices as they reformed while the first has doubled down on the harsh?

    And Richs is right: this is a case of Hollywood communists disliking any religion.

    Made it simple for you. The more religion anyone has, the crazier they are, and increases their prospects of criminal behavior.

    Our founding fathers where religious people, SO. Does this logic hold for them too?

    I think the crazy ones you refer to tend to be the ones that want to make sure you and everyone else knows how religious they are, because as we all know, there is a magic questionaire where this stuff is checked off, and if you don’t have enough checks, something is supposed to happen to you.

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  5. sahrab

    The difference is that the later two left behind those practices as they reformed while the first has doubled down on the harsh?

    No, since all three books (and others as well) command you (proverbial you) to kill, mistreat, shun non-believers, what your stating is those Muslims are better followers of their bible.

    Some Jews and Christians follow their Bible by the word, and some Muslims do as well. Some Muslims selectively follow their bible, and some Jews and Christians do as well.

    If the Founding Fathers had the Magic Questionaire they’d be just as bat shit crazy.

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  6. richtaylor365 *

    Yet, another casual dig on Islam.

    Sure, any religion that practices blasphemy and apostasy laws, instructs their followers to kill those not like them, stones adulterers, hangs homosexuals, and declares jihad on the world until all governments practice their particular form of theocracy, I will make fun of. You got some Jewish or Christian equivalents, provide them, and I’ll make fun of them to.

    Either you accept the religious interpretations of the good practitioners of said religion as “TRUE [insert name of religion here]“, or you tell ALL religious people to go fuck themselves, based on the notion that there is an absolute definition of what any religion really is, and that you actually know what that definition is (absurd notion, wouldn’t you say?).

    Talk about intellectually lazy, one or the other, those are my only choices? How about this, where some might get confused about contradictory passages in the Bible (Not that confusing when you start from the premise that The Old Testament law was given to a specific group of people, the Jews, and was never said to have been given to anyone else, Christians included, that The Old Testament law was only temporary and was prophesized to come to an end- with the coming of Christ, that The Old Testament law was designed and written to make the Jews distinct from other peoples-animal sacrifices/food and clothing rules, and that with the coming of Christ-the savior of all peoples, Christians have no obligations whatsoever to follow or practice anything written in The Old Testament), The Koran was written by one man (not many like the Bible) and the author is clear that whatever was written later supersedes that which was written earlier. So if Mohammed tells Muslims to pray 3 times a day, then later tells them to pray five, the five supersedes the 3, just as all the nutjobbery “kill all the infidels” comes later.

    That’s just as stupid as suggesting that the Bible teaches that all homosexuals should be stoned.

    Already answered. Jesus makes no demands on his follwers about adhering to crazy shit like blasphemy and apostasy laws, he only has two demands for his followers, “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself”.

    Funny that you should bring up stoning homosexuals, the only instances of that going on now are in Sharia complaint countries, and yes, they should be scorned for such practices.

    I have little regard for any religion

    And that’s the beauty of living in a free democracy (something BTW that is scorned in the Koran as an abomination, that and free speech, hence the blasphemy laws), reinforcing the importance of the First Amendment and that wall of separation, that those so inclined can practice their faith in peace unmolested by the government, and those wishing none of it can be left alone as well, the freedom to choose.

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  7. Seattle Outcast

    Our founding fathers where religious people, SO. Does this logic hold for them too

    For their time many of the practically atheists (and I believe that some of them were), so they were obviously saner than many others, say those that believed in the Divine Right of Kings.

    But I’m generally speaking of what I see in modern life; religion attracts crazy like nothing else does. I have to assume that it always has. Additionally, atheists are the most under-represented group in prison populations. Fully 15% of the general population (or more) is listed as non-religious or atheist, yet make up less than 1% of incarcerated criminals.

    While correlation does not equal causation, in this case I’m willing to allow that having a religion that allows for even the most horrible of crimes to be “forgiven” has something to do with it.

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  8. sahrab

    that The Old Testament law was only temporary and was prophesized to come to an end- with the coming of Christ, that The Old Testament law was designed and written to make the Jews distinct from other peoples-animal sacrifices/food and clothing rules, and that with the coming of Christ-the savior of all peoples

    Talk about lazy, the Jews are bound by the Old Testament because they do not believe the messiah has yet to arrive. Them silly Jews expect the savior of all peoples to fullfill the prophecies in the Old Testament. The Old Testament specifically lays out the ground rules for the messiah. The prophecies for the messiah are very clear to the point the Old Testament states the messiah will [fill in the blank].

    Minor things such as bring peace to the world and end all war, bring knowledge of God to the world, have the correct genealogy by being descended from King David and King Solomon.

    The problem? Jesus doesnt fullfill the Old Testament prophecies for the messiah. There is a defined linear progression of events, the only items Jesus was able to fullfill were the same ones a deli owner in topeka can also fullfill. or they were items he engineered as in having the boy get him a donkey so he can ride into town on the back of an ass.

    Instead Jesus, points to examples and stories in the Old Testament and states they fortell his coming and thereby prove he’s the messiah. What Jesus does not do, because he’s incapable, is fullfill the actual Old Testament prophecies for the messiah.

    But Jesus does fullfill the prophecy of another being foretold in the Old Testament, the False Messiah.

    According to the Old Testament the Messiah will fullfill the following prophecies (in a single lifetime)
    * The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
    * Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
    * The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
    * He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)
    * The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with “fear of God” (Isaiah 11:2)
    * Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
    * Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
    * He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
    * All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
    * Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
    * There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
    * All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
    * The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
    * He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
    * Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
    * The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
    * The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
    * Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
    * The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
    * He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)
    * Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
    * He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
    * He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

    Before you claim that Jesus is going to do it when he returns, there is no sense of a “first and second” coming. If you know differently please reference it, just remember the Old Testament lays out specifically the foretellng of the Messiah, if there is justificaiton for a “second coming” it will have to come from the Old Testament.

    Jesus makes no demands on his follwers about adhering to crazy shit like blasphemy and apostasy laws

    Which New Testament are you reading? 1 Timothy 6:1, Titus 2:4-5, Revelation 2:9,

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  9. Kimpost

    I’m not going sahrab’s route of finding damning Bible passages. He’s doing that just fine, but even if I do find them interesting and am looking forward to your rebuttal, I generally accept good Christians as a testament of Christianity. Further more I also accept vastly different interpretations of Christianity as Christianity.

    For instance I accept it when Mitt Romney calls himself a Christian, even if the New Testament says nothing about John Smith. I also accept tens (more likely, hundreds) of millions of Catholics as such, even if they are pro-choice or use contraceptives. Or homosexual Christians who claim that their God has nothing against homosexuality, even if I myself can read the passages against it (as they appear to me) in their holy book. I also accept it when they claim that one passage trumps another, or when they suggest that another thing isn’t important in a modern context.

    I think that you are unintentionally mocking religion by attempting the impossible (defining them as absolutes).

    Your virtual nullification of the Old Testament with the coming of Christ feels simplistic, to say the least. Most theologians probably wouldn’t agree with you, but playing that game, would you then at least call Judaism bigoted? Surely that would be a yes? After all, the Torah never got a Messiah make-over. Peaceful and modern Jews (assuming that you do think they exist), aren’t they nothing but fake Jews who really do not comprehend their own religious doctrine as well as you do yours (and even theirs and others)?

    What do you call Muslims who don’t agree with the premise that it’s demanded of them to kill infidels? Such a belief is not even uncommon amongst scholars, but you still claim to know better?

    What do you say to those Muslims who either don’t lend as much weight to the Hadiths, don’t interpret them like you do, or just don’t agree with what actually happened historically?

    What do you say to those who think that the radical (violent) interpretations of Islam have been wrong for centuries?

    I also think that Islam or particularly the Muslim world is filled with real problems worthy of criticism. We don’t need to pretend to understand the true ™ meaning of their religious texts to find problems. We certainly don’t need to suggest that “the Koran teaches that all infidels should be killed”. It’s lazy, but more importantly it is untrue to so many millions of people, that the suggestion itself becomes ridiculous.

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  10. JimK

    I would say simply this. There is Islam, a religion like many others with a wide variety of practitioners.

    There is Islamic fanaticism, which tends to be fairly uniform in statement and purpose: to bring the world and all who inhabit it under thumb by any and all means. Not the first sect to try it, won’t be the last.

    All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares, ya know?

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  11. richtaylor365 *

    FWIW, I never intended this to be a religious post, I just thought it humorous that someone would travel to the land of terrorism and murder to convert to the religion of peace. And quoting Bible verses back and forth is not only boring but an exercise in futility, but the simple fact is that The Old Testament has no hold or relevance on any Christian, except maybe an historical context. Yes, Jesus did mention SOME of the 10 commandments, but the OTL was written for the Jews, Christians are not Jewish.

    the Jews are bound by the Old Testament

    So I guess we can pick any Jerusalem newspaper and read about animal sacrifices, those afflicted with a disease separating themselves from the village and living alone, eating fish that don’t have fins or scales or birds of prey, killing fortune tellers/witches, or kids that strike their parents, or have strict punishment afflicted on those not eating kosher/wearing mixed fiber clothes/wearing forbidden facial hair? The Jews, nowhere on earth, religiously follow The Old Testament laws

    1 Timothy 6:1

    You realize, don’t you, that slavery in the first century was a bit different from that practiced by the southern states pre civil war? Many sold themselves in to slavery or a form of indentured servitude to pay off an existing debt. Slaves could marry, accumulate wealth, purchase their own freedom, or run a business. But Paul talks about the responsibility of masters, to treat their slaves well and with dignity, because they, like the master are all children of God.

    Titus 2:4-5

    What part do you not agree with? Is it that “obedient to your husband” thingy? You know, don’t you, that there are similar versus that command husbands to be considerate of their wives and treat them with respect?

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  12. hist_ed

    Both Christianity and Islam share one thing: later books tend to supercede earlier ones. Thus “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” and “judge not lest you be judged” supercede all the crap in Leviticus. The New Testiment is a lot more forgiving than the old.

    The emphasis is reversed in Islam. The earlier parts of the Koran tend to be more forgiving, the later parts (and the hadith) more vicious.

    The biggest problem is that 99.9% Christians came out of the Dark Ages. A much smaller percentage of Muslims have.

    I wonder if Mr Stone will later add another religion to the portfolio-then he would be an apostate and under a death sentence.

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  13. richtaylor365 *

    am looking forward to your rebuttal

    Already answered, if practicing Jews were Old Trestament complaint and were regular practitioners of Leviticus style nutjobbery, then I would rag on them as well, but they don’t.

    Further more I also accept vastly different interpretations of Christianity as Christianity.

    Ditto, but since this is a free country and we don’t have idiot blasphemy laws that Sharia demands, I can criticize beliefs I find nonsensical. I heap the same amount of scorn of Fred Phelps and his band of fools because their interpretation of a loving God and what he asks of his followers is vastly different from mine.

    For instance I accept it when Mitt Romney calls himself a Christian, even if the New Testament says nothing about John Smith. I also accept tens (more likely, hundreds) of millions of Catholics as such, even if they are pro-choice or use contraceptives. Or homosexual Christians who claim that their God has nothing against homosexuality, even if I myself can read the passages against it (as they appear to me) in their holy book. I also accept it when they claim that one passage trumps another, or when they suggest that another thing isn’t important in a modern context.

    I am of a similar opinion. I never question a man’s bonafides when it comes to his faith, that is between him and his maker. I have enough trouble keeping my own act together.

    I avoid religious posts here for two reasons, mainly because atheism is the prevailing opinion but the other is that I am not as good a Christian as I would like to be and am unworthy to champion the cause, others are much better at it then me.

    I think that you are unintentionally mocking religion by attempting the impossible (defining them as absolutes).

    I mock stuff that I think is stupid. I mock blasphemy and apostasy laws because I think they are stupid. I mock killing gays and treating women like property because i think that is stupid. I mock the attitudes of thinking anyone not of your faith as inferior and worthy of destruction because I think it is stupid. And I mock this world Jihad of theirs until all world governments are Sharia compliant because I think that is really stupid.

    Most theologians probably wouldn’t agree with you

    I think they would, but you can research that for yourself.

    What do you call Muslims who don’t agree with the premise that it’s demanded of them to kill infidels?

    I would call them reasonable and rational.

    Such a belief is not even uncommon amongst scholars, but you still claim to know better?

    Which scholars? I could provide you with about a hundred youtube videos of “scholars” perpetuating that belief and calling those not of that belief false and abominations.

    What do you say to those who think that the radical (violent) interpretations of Islam have been wrong for centuries?

    I would say good for you, too bad we get evidence every single day of those Muslims that feel differently.

    It’s lazy, but more importantly it is untrue to so many millions of people, that the suggestion itself becomes ridiculous.

    I think it is ridiculous that ANY Muslim would think like that, no matter how few there are, which no one, not you or I, really knows how few.

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  14. drunkkus

    Religion = Insanity

    Made it simple for you. The more religion anyone has, the crazier they are, and increases their prospects of criminal behavior.

    For the most part, I’ve kept my mouth shut for the whole existence of this blog, from Lee’s beginnings onward, but I’m old enough and have had enough to drink tonight that I just gotta say something about this….

    Thank goodness we have the all-knowing voice of reason here to speak out against all the religious crazies who say things like “Wow, that guy needs to be taken out and beat to death with baseball bats in a public square,” about the evil monster at fault in a car accident.

    Have the religious “fundies” been trying to break into your house in the middle of the….uh Saturday afternoon….and forcefully convert you to Christianity again, SO? ….you know, like the ones who you say, even though you’re not Catholic, tried to force you to partake of the germ-ridden Catholics-only Communion wine cup that one time you attended a Catholic Mass with your wife?

    For some reason, I think the person who brags about assaulting religious people with a deadly weapon for knocking upon his door to hand him a pamphlet as one of the highlights of his life might just be a little crazier than those who knocked upon his door to hand him that pamphlet. Or maybe it’s just me. At the very least, it’s pretty goddamned douchey to make up a story where you had to protect your own safety with a gun because some dangerous Mormons tried to bust up into your shit and take you hostage to waterboard you enough to bring you over to the dark Mormon side. I can assure everyone, everywhere, there are no Mormons who have tried to go all Rambo and extract the athiest special-forces style to take to a re-education camp.

    SO, you say some witty things every now and then, and I share your hatred of all people and things leftist, but when it comes to the amount of persecution you claim you’ve withstood in the name of religion, especially Christianity, you’re just plain full of shit.

    All those zealots you claim time and time again to have come across in your undoubtedly long and eventful life? ….In my long and eventful life, I’m afraid Ive found that they’re a little more worried about helping starving kids in Africa and other “crazy” shit like that than breaking into your house and making you bow down to their God. Jesus Christ! If you’re going to take issue with them, at least make it over the real issues that can be taken with them rather than some bullshit you made up. For fucks sake!

    I’m not saying that some people aren’t unhealthily devoted to their religion. But other than a few outlying extreme cases (Muslim suicide bombers), what people anywhere on the Earth are crazier and have increased prospects of criminal behavior based on their religion?

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  15. Kimpost

    Already answered, if practicing Jews were Old Trestament complaint and were regular practitioners of Leviticus style nutjobbery, then I would rag on them as well, but they don’t.

    In one instance you claim to know what the Koran teaches, but when it comes to Judaism you are wiling to cut the Torah some slack because its followers are largely good people? Wtf? :) That’s all I wanted to see, but for all religions.

    Fuck bigoted fundamentalist arsehole followers of any religion! Just don’t claim to understand the true meaning of their respective texts. There is peaceful Islam, that’s just a fact. One major reason for it appearing to being more violent than others is that it happens to be the dominating religion of some pretty messed up regions, lacking in democracy, personal freedoms, education, other basic human rights, infrastructure etc.

    Which scholars? I could provide you with about a hundred youtube videos of “scholars” perpetuating that belief and calling those not of that belief false and abominations.

    Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is as far as I have been able to see a voice of reason. I’m not into counting scholars though. The group [peaceful Islam] is large enough for me to contend that it isn’t right to claim that the Koran teaches the killing of infidels.

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  16. hist_ed

    Religion = Insanity

    I am an atheist who thinks al lthe sky pixie talk is wacko (I really like the cargo cults, though). I have know a lot of really smart (and nice) religious people. Assuming that everyone is a gropu is jsut like your worst stereotype of that group is simple bigotry.

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  17. Poosh

    Saying Islam is the same as Christianity is about as absurd as saying Christianity is the same as Buddhism.

    There are simple glaring differences however, if you don’t want to get bogged down in the details (for example a lot of the worse Islamic claims are not found in the Koran but in other texts, which themselves are not accepted by all Muslims). Keeping in mind a religion as recorded in the texts cannot be responsible for those who deviate or choose to only practice a few parts of the fine print, whilst ignoring the major themes, and not assuming God is real or not – the following all help shape the consciousness of the practitioners:

    1: Christianity has a built in doctrine of “to be Christian is to suffer” and to accept suffering as part of life. Basically to roll over and take it. Islam does not teach this. It does teach to sacrifice in the name of Allah but not to accept suffering as a natural state or to turn the other cheek (QUITE the opposite).

    2: Christianity’s God is all forgiving and is open to forgive almost all sins, so long as you repent: all men are sinners. Islam, on the other hand, says God will do whatever the hell he likes.

    3: Christianity does not claim to be a political system, this can lead to some Christians even refusing to vote. Islam IS a political system, you cannot separate them from one another. It was envisioned as such. The prophet of Islam designed his religion to OBTAIN power. Whoever came up with Christianity taught it as a coping mechanism to deal with the sufferings and oppression of human life/Rome.

    4: Jesus healed the ear of the guard who came to take him to his death. Muhammad was a warlord. ’nuff said.

    5: Islam quite clearly divides humans into various camps with Muslims at the top and Atheists and polytheists at the bottom. This is standard for religions, such as Hinduism which has its own caste system. Christianity, as the exception, is the opposite of this when it comes to how humans should be treated.

    6: The Koran is the unchanged word of Allah END OF STORY. The Bible on the other hand is various books, most Christians accept the NT was essentially put together by men and had nothing to do with God’s word. This causes, even if you generally accept it’s God’s word, some level of disconnect in the conciseness of Christians, save the most barbarian of Christians.

    Simply consider this – Islam, as we’re often told, was far more advanced than the Christian, medieval, world. They were the lords of culture whilst the West was living in mud huts etc. If this is true then why are Islamic countries today so backwards? Surely the Islamic world had a head start? *que some idiotic statement about colonialism, which only proves my point

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  18. hist_ed

    I suppose when looking at the two faiths the proof is in the pudding. When is the last time a major Christian or Jewish cleric called for the murder of unbelievers because of a cartoon, or because they mishandled a bible or torah or because they names a teddy bear “Jesus” or “Moses”? When is the last time Christians or Jews rioted on a large scale because of insults to their religion? Right now, the savages in Afghanistan are killing each other (and two US soldiers) because we accidentally burned a few books.

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  19. sahrab

    But is that the Religion or the zealots of the Religion?

    Rich claimed:
    * “The Koran teaches that all infidels should be killed”, this was his justification for degrading the religion as a whole. At the same time he excuses the passages in his own belief systems bible that has the exact same language towards infidels (once again Jesus tells you the OT laws are forever John 14:15,Matthew 5:17 he even takes the Jews to task for not following the OT Laws Mark 7:9-10, 1 Peter 3:2-6, ).
    * He also claimed his belief system “makes no demands on his follwers about adhering to crazy shit like blasphemy and apostasy laws” when passages were cited that refute his assertion, he went on a tangent about the shades of slavery and whether wives should be subservient to their husbands. Ignoring that the passages dictate to not do so would be blasphemous. It does not matter whether todays followers still follow these (crazy shit) laws laid down to them (and there are some that do) Rich is dictated to follow these (crazy shit) rules lest he blaspheme his belief. Rich excuses it, since most followers no longer follow these (crazy shit) laws and rules, but that just makes the Muslims that still follow the (crazy shit) rules better beleivers.
    * He also claimed his savior was the OT messiah, even though thats not supported, but i guess thats a different topic since he decided to ignore it.

    My claim is all of the Abrahamic religions, and most religions in general, have the same passages towards infidels. We know, since there are peacefull muslims just as there are violent xtians, that its how the followers interpret the passages that cause the issue, not the belief. If Rich were honest, his issue with Muslims would follow over to his own belief.

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  20. richtaylor365 *

    this was his justification for degrading the religion as a whole.

    The post was about Sean Stone’s conversion, but you grabbed hold of a tiny fraction of that post and ran with it, why?

    once again Jesus tells you the OT laws are forever

    I have already pointed out to you that you are wrong. I asked you before about animal sacrifices, the mixing of threads in garments, the sins of eating fish with fins or scales, and the killing of children that strike their parents, and on and on, is any of these traditions practiced today by any Jews ( or Christians) anywhere on Earth? No, talk about ignoring.

    Any all your Bible verses that you quoted, you missed by a mile:

    John 14:15

    You do realize, don’t you (rhetorical since you are using them incorrectly) that when Jesus says “My Commandments”, he is not talking about the Old Testament 10 Commandments, He is referring to HIS commandments, to love God and to love you each other?

    Matthew 5:17

    More misses on your part.

    In short, Jesus was creating a spiritual law, which we may call the “law of Christ” (John 13:33-35) — and this becomes the norm for Christian living, not the old covenant law. This is demonstrated by the fact that one cannot find in the teaching in Matthew 5-6 any discussion of ceremonial laws such as the Sabbath and annual festival “holy time” regulations — a hallmark of Jewish religious observance based on old covenant commands.

    While Jews concerned themselves with what Moses and their traditions said, Jesus superseded that approach to God with his own instruction. He became the standard of truth (John 1:17). In referring to both the Law of Moses and the tradition of the elders, Jesus boldly proclaimed, “But I say to you” (Matthew 5:22, 28, 32, 34, 39, 44). At the end of the Sermon, Jesus told his hearers that the wise person is one “who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice” (Matthew 7:24).

    he went on a tangent about the shades of slavery and whether wives should be subservient to their husbands.

    Whoa, you are the one that brought up that nonsense, not me, and when I shoot down that nonsense and provide you with some context, I go off on a tangent, nice, you argue just like a liberal.

    It does not matter whether todays followers still follow these (crazy shit) laws laid down to them (and there are some that do)

    It certainly does matter, that is whole crux of the argument, that some religions have discarded their early nutjobbery mandates, and some have not, that even though Leviticus style craziness and Koran craziness are similar, we do not see Jews or Christians adhering to that nonsense today, but we do witness (every single day) Muslim’s refusal to abandon their craziness, no, such as their idiotic blasphemy and apostasy laws, the hanging of gays, and the stoning of adulterers. The rest of the world has evolved, the Muslims have not.

    Rich excuses it

    What exactly am I excusing? Show me some Jewish or Christian equivalents to this type of nonsense and I will condemn it as well, where in the Christian or Jewish countries do we see anything similar to blasphemy or apostasy laws? Show me, or shut up.

    He also claimed his savior was the OT messiah

    Where? provide proof with one of my comments.

    If Rich were honest

    Great, more liberal tactics, aren’t the least embarrassed?

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  21. Seattle Outcast

    Have the religious “fundies” been trying to break into your house in the middle of the….uh Saturday afternoon….and forcefully convert you to Christianity again, SO? ….you know, like the ones who you say, even though you’re not Catholic, tried to force you to partake of the germ-ridden Catholics-only Communion wine cup that one time you attended a Catholic Mass with your wife?

    So glad to see you’ve been paying attention, though you’re way too fuzzy on the details.

    Still have to put up with an idiot coworker that thinks I’m a “lapsed catholic” who feels the need to try to explain the beauty of religion to me on a regular basis. I’d get him fired, but he’s stupid and needs the job.

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  22. AlexInCT

    Still have to put up with an idiot coworker that thinks I’m a “lapsed catholic” who feels the need to try to explain the beauty of religion to me on a regular basis.

    Tell em you feel just as compelled to discuss the wonders of donkey-on-midget porn.

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  23. sahrab

    The post was about Sean Stone’s conversion

    YOU, RICH, stated the “Koran teaches that all infidels should be killed”. Not sure what your retention problem really is, but go back and address my posts. They are directly in response to somethign you stated.

    For instance when YOU, RICH, stated “Jesus makes no demands on his follwers about adhering to crazy shit like blasphemy and apostasy laws”. My follow on post was in response to that.

    It should be clear, especially since i quoted your comment.

    Go with that, instead of making shit up and we’ll have a reasonable conversation.

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