Whizzing On The Taliban

We live in the TMI age, no getting around that. Video cameras in every cell phone and who doesn’t have a smartphone now? The fact of the matter is this, if you are out in public, anywhere, you have no expectation of privacy so whatever you are doing, factor in the possibility of it going public. There are some definite advantages to this, want to see naked pics (or a sex tape) of such and such, chances are it is floating around the blogosphere. See some elected official in the parking lot getting a hummer from a male hooker in his car? might want to document that, or some police misconduct, start filming.

But when some inadvertent video goes public and causes embarrassment, well, a two step usually follows. Here is the latest hitting the internet:

A couple questions right off the bat, obviously another Marine in filming this, why disseminate it out to the public? I guess the same could be asked about those Abu Gharib photos, how do they get out? But this is like a buddy filming you while you are drinking while on patrol, or filming you taking a snooze on guard duty, obviously it is going to get you in hot water.

Clearly, this was going to investigated:

The top commanders of the Marine Corps U.S. forces in Afghanistan are investigating a video that purports to show U.S. Marines urinating on the bodies of dead Taliban after Defense Secretary Leon Panetta ordered a probe into behavior he described is “utterly deplorable.”

Clearly, The Marine Corp. was not going to countenance or condone such behavior. And clearly the terror apologists would jump on this as yet one more example of America’s intolerance with Muslims.

I reminded of George Patton making a public display of Peeing in the Rhein to highlight his utter contempt for the enemy in front of his troops, or Admiral Halsey making a conscious decision early on to refer to the enemy in terms of “Japs” and “those yellow bastards” both to instill a fighting spirit but to marginalize them, make them as evil and worthy of killing. Both of these guys would have been called on to the carpet early on and admonished severally if they were fighting today.

In the relative scheme of things, given how long this war has been waging and the exemplary behavior of our military in fighting it, is this really a big deal? Hardly, but it does exemplify the nature of the world we live in, the 24 hour news cycle and the reach public eyes have in private matters.

Comments are closed.

  1. Seattle Outcast

    Who needs a smart phone? I’m still using a Razor II that not even using most of its capabilities.

    IF Marines feel the need to piss on a few dead Taliban, I’m not going to get upset about it.

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  2. hohokiss

    Well, add this to the recent video of 2 punk kids filming themselves beating up a hobo and posting it on youtube for laughs, and the comments left under it, .e.g. “beat the fuckers to death” “have ‘em raped in jail” “Obama promised eliminate homelessness” and you’ll see a few minor cultural similarities emerge. Then check out the level of non-conversation under virtually any youtube video and notice a stronger pattern of global culture emerge. Nobody gives a crap about Terms, manners or rules, etiquette, or freedom of speech. Its basically “STFU fag I kill you mofo” Meanwhile, any Taliban mofos still alive sit in caves chanting “Death to America”. If you believe in karma 9/11 is it.

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  3. CM

    Then check out the level of non-conversation under virtually any youtube video and notice a stronger pattern of global culture emerge.

    After your post about 1980’s Nigeria in the other thread I figured you were Jabba, and this just confirms it. Welcome back. Hope you had a decent festive season.

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  4. Mississippi Yankee

    Maybe it’s my 63 year old eyes or my monitors resolution but I’ve seen this clip at several sites and still can’t see a drop of liquid, urine or other-wise.

    I smell set-up.

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  5. Kimpost

    Assuming it’s authentic, this really is nothing in your eyes? I think it’s a big deal. Troops will likely die because of it. Allies could possibly withdraw because of it.

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  6. blameme

    If “Allies” withdraw over this, they aren’t allies.

    Not saying this is not bad etc, but really, in a theater of war where bodies get blown to bits,innocents are unfortunately killed etc, urinating on corpses pales in comparison.

    Allies would have the right to get pissed, tell us to get our act together, but leaving us would be BS.

    In all the wars the US has “started” our Allies have lost fractions of a percent of the men and women the US has lost saving Europe’s ass from itself.

    Truly, if our Allies leave us over this, they weren’t allies in any sense of the word. Just thinking about our allies leaving us over a couple of marines getting out of hand pisses me off to no fucking end. This is why Americans get tired of the Europeans – a couple of soldiers make a bad error in judgement – they threaten to leave over their fragile sensibilities and obviously superior morals.

    Europe starts two friggin world wars over racist bullshit and America has to send our youngest and brightest to save your asses from yourselves, losing hundreds of thousands. God forbid you measure the US by the same low standards you have for yourselves.

    Fuck those allies if they withdraw. But don’t call us when the time comes (and it will, Europe being racist and causing conflict is as dependable as the sun every morning), maybe we should just say that we will sit this one out due to not being able to hold our soldiers to the obvious high standards you hold.

    Motherfuckers. Incompetent, selfish motherfuckers. Sorry for the rant, but the thought of an ally dropping us over this isolated incident really chaps my hide. Disingenuous bastards. Europe really likes to think themselves above us, until they need someone to step in, do the right thing and stop them from bullying and killing each other.

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  7. Kimpost

    Just saying that the governments of Europe are as dependant on public opinion as yours is. The war on terror is unpopular as it is, in US just as it is in Europe. If the general attitude from the current administration or from the leading opposition, were as casual as you are here, then it just wouldn’t work out.

    Now they aren’t (unless Newt gets on air saying that it’s cool to pee on corpses). And your military seems to take it seriously as well. In that regard it’s all good as far as I’m concerned. I was just surprised to see how casual you guys were about it. These kinds of images doesn’t help our cause (whatever it is – liberating the Afghan woman?). We’re providing the enemy with propaganda ammunition.

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  8. blameme

    On that I agree. I was just going off on the whole “Allies withdrawing” bit.

    I don’t think that people are saying this is not an incident in and of itself, but that when compared within context of everything else that has happened in this war or these wars, that this is actually a fairly insignificant issue.

    Again, not a casual attitude – just comparing context. For instance, the 3000 that died on 9/11 makes peeing on a couple of corpses pretty irrelevant.

    That’s all. It is important and I truly wish that it had not happened. But, we have to remember to keep things in context – and in war this is a pretty small issue overall. Could there be repercussions for our soldiers? Sure. But I am sure any persons swayed by this into violence against us were pretty much against us to being with.

    If they (those swayed against us) can overcome senseless beheadings, the torture of women and innocents killed via indiscriminate car bombs from terrorists, but then get mad enough to swing into action against us over some urination on corpses…were they really ever on our side to being with – highly doubtful.

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  9. ilovecress

    For instance, the 3000 that died on 9/11 makes peeing on a couple of corpses pretty irrelevant.

    But that’s not the comparison. Again, I have no idea how much of a big deal this is goign to be – but there is something to be said for the good guys acting like the good guys – with hono(u)r

    The bad guys always act like dicks. The good guys don’t. That’s how a lot of the world tells them apart. You’ve got to (be seen to) have the moral high ground, to demonstrate how much better the way of life you’re fighting for is if you want to win the hearts and minds bit.

    This could all blow over, but I’ll admit that it was interesting to see how casually it was received on here.

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  10. TxAg94

    or some police misconduct, start filming.

    I wouldn’t recommend this given the trend of “law enforcement” to get very nasty with anyone filming them. At the least, make sure they don’t see you. Seems like lately we have no expectation of privacy in the public setting but public officials have every expectation of privacy in doing their public duties. They are now starting to enforce that expectation quite forcefully.

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  11. Poosh

    I wouldn’t give a sh*t if someone pissed on a Nazi. I personally wouldn’t do it when all is said and done, but that makes me no more moral than these soldiers. It certainly does not make me a better person.

    Because I don’t give a shit if someone pisses on the corpse of a Nazi, I don’t give a shit if someone pisses on an Islamist corpse, far worse than the Nazis.

    The enemy mutilates the bodies of allied bodies and their own women as a matter of practice. They blow apart civilians with intent. Only scum are making this a big deal. Be they the enemy or fifth-columnists, or useful idiots. Knowing what Islamists do, pissing on their corpses is very restrained.

    And if the degenerate “Muslim” “world” gets in an uproar, when was the last time their shit-filled brains caused them NOT to get in an uproar. Oh yeah, when Islamists tear apart even their own civilians. When Islamic governments enslave their entire populations. Fuck this bullshit story and the scum who are trying to turn it into a big deal. As if an extremist Muslim is gonna think “oh, they pissed on the corpses, I better go Jihad!” …. please. If you have that mind-set, you’re gonna go Jihad regardless.

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  12. Poosh

    I’d bet you anything allied soldier watching that video, will be cheering and wishing they could done that. That includes the European soldiers, who should not be put in the same basket as the european civilians or politicians. European soldiers, though politically restrained from fighting, have lost brothers as well in this war.

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  13. Poosh

    While we’re at it. there was a video going around showing, just before Gadaffi was shot in the head, of what appears to be some rebel sticking some stick or gun up the now dead Libyan dictator’s ass…. Funny how the media was largely silent on that. I guess it was too “tasteless” to put in the news, unlike, say, pissing on a dead murderer’s corpse.

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  14. ilovecress

    But there is a way you pledge to act whenever you are acting on behalf of something bigger than yourself. Certainly in the UK forces, and I’m pretty sure the same is true of US forces. No matter what your views are, you’re acting on behalf of your country (or your constitution) and your conduct should reflect that.

    The fact that the enemy does this too is even more of a reason to point out the fact that as the good guys, we don’t condone this behaviour

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  15. richtaylor365 *

    I wouldn’t recommend this given the trend of “law enforcement” to get very nasty with anyone filming them.

    We have talked about this before. To re iterate, the cops have zero expectation of privacy while on duty and in the performance of those duties. They are civil servants who work for you, the manner of that service and how they perform those duties is fair game for anyone to observe and document.

    Naturally if a cop is doing something wrong or outside of policy, he does not want evidence of that, but too bad for him. And those occasions where rogue cops have arrested people for doing nothing except filming their illegal activities, notice that all those cases have been dismissed. I have mentioned before that I would like SCOTUS to address this issue once and for all, and remove the cloak of secrecy that some hide behind.

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  16. ilovecress

    In fact – this was actually a question in my entrancve interview at Cranwell. Well, obviously not this exact scenario, but the same sort of idea.

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  17. richtaylor365 *

    No matter what your views are, you’re acting on behalf of your country (or your constitution) and your conduct should reflect that.

    It’s called “Conduct unbecoming of a Marine”, a catch all in the military for any actions done that would bring discredit or embarrassment. The guy filming this is no better and should share in whatever punishment is meted out to the others.

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  18. hohokiss

    You can ask virtually any biased media of your choice what the US accomplished in Iraq and they’ll all give you the same verdict: zip, total complete abject failure.
    Gitmo is still open despite African-American liberal president Obama’s promising to close it, just as fellow lib Clinton promised to fix the Haiti refugee mess made there by Bush Sr. We still don’t have free health care, either. Not an effing word has been lost talking about the automatic free paradise promised since back when. Docs are going bankrupt everywhere. Okay – on the upside, those old, ungainly syringe and hazmat wastebaskets in hospitals nationwide are being replaced with slicker petrochemical containers, at above minimum wage.
    Freedom of speech in USA typically goes like this nowadays “STFU fag The US – love it or leave it” “STFU homo X is God (sic) your a fag STFU” FoS is what you see on the video. And this is all quietly happening on Obama’s watch. Whats he saying, basically – STFU.

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  19. hohokiss

    The video appears to be authentic:

    Military officials have interviewed two of four Marines in a video which shows them urinating on dead bodies sprawled out on the ground, a Marine Corps official told CNN Friday

    -Panetta was “deeply troubled” after viewing the video
    -Gen. James Amos said the behavior is wholly inconsistent with the high standards of conduct and warrior ethos that we have demonstrated throughout our history
    -Lt. Gen. Adrian Bradshaw called the actions on the video disgusting
    -activity of this kind that is grossly against all the moral values that the coalition forces are standing for are very much working against our cause and against everything that we are standing for and that we are here for said Brig. Gen. Carsten Jacobson
    -Afghan President Karzai called on the U.S. to investigate the video and hand down the harshest punishment possible. The government of Afghanistan is deeply disturbed by a video that shows American soldiers desecrating dead bodies of three Afghans, according to a statement released by the presidential palace on behalf of Karzai.

    Ah, buncha wussies. Shoulda wrapped the #% ragheads in #%$ bacon, too hahahaha $#% the rules. Like this:

    Some university students, former players for the Nittany Lions and others were angered by the removal of Paterno, the 85-year-old coaching great who guided the team for 46 years and recorded the most wins in college football history. After Paterno’s dismissal was announced in November, student protesters overturned a news van and vandalized streets around the campus before police dispersed them. Penn State was rocked by accusations that Sandusky had sexually abused young boys over 14 years and that school officials failed to take the complaints to police.

    Buncha %#$ fags. ##$% the news van and the #%$ school if we can’t $$# win. Piss on ‘em haha

    The video surfaces at a critical time for relations among the United States, the Afghan government and the Taliban.
    Last year, the United States outlined its plan to withdraw its troops from Afghanistan, beginning by pulling out 33,000 “surge” troops who had been deployed to help quell the violence by the end of 2012. The remaining 68,000 troops would be withdrawn by the end of 2014

    Nice. Conspiracy buffs can easily conclude that the video was staged at this critical time to hopefully again escalate violence, etc. thereby “forcing” the US to stay longer… for oil, etc.

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  20. Poosh

    It’s unbecoming as a soldier, though the enemy are not soldiers because they wear no uniform and are not subject to the Geneva convention, but …. the real question is why SHOULDN’T one piss on the corpse of a dead Islamist who plants IED on Monday and blows up a school ’cause it educates females on Thursday.

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  21. blameme

    The bad guys always act like dicks. The good guys don’t. That’s how a lot of the world tells them apart. You’ve got to (be seen to) have the moral high ground, to demonstrate how much better the way of life you’re fighting for is if you want to win the hearts and minds bit.

    ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? Your moral equivalence is staggering.

    We have built hospitals, roads, schools, mosques and protected way too many woman and children from rape and kidnapping to count. We have never beheaded someone or used a child as a human shield. We do not use terror to oppress minorities.

    However, the terrorists have done all of the above and more – indiscriminate bombings and beheadings. Holding women and children for ransom so that they can buy parts for IEDs.

    Yes, your DAMN RIGHT we hold ourselves to a higher standard and EVEN including this pissing video we easily surpass it. THERE IS NO MORAL EQUIVALENCY BETWEEN PISSING ON A COUPLE OF DEAD CORPSES AND ALL THE THINGS OUR ENEMY HAS DONE.

    To suggest that someone could look at this video and condemn all the good we have done and say, “You are supposed to be the good guys.” Anyone without jealousy or hatred for America will EASILY see that WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS, WE ACT LIKE THE GOOD GUYS and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

    Good luck with that “holier than thou” bullshit. Less than a fraction of 1% of our “guys” have done something wrong. The exact damn opposite is true for the enemy – yet we are to be lectured about “acting like the good guys?”

    GTFO and GFY.

    Do I wish it had not happened? Yes. Do I think they should pay a price? Sure. Do I think it comes anywhere close to reducing our status as the “good guys?” Only to those with an agenda. Fuck’em.

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  22. hohokiss

    The next question is how will ones filming pissing on a corpse and posting it on the Web educate any females anywhere? Did this impress these soldiers’ girls back home? Get ‘em wet and subservient – almost Muslimesque, as all bit’s should be haha – strike terror in the hearts of the enemy, or just maybe cause more hatred and bloodshed? “Well, they started it. With 9/11″
    If the soldier were putting out the classic fuse on a dynamite stick I’d be at least a tad impressed. But I want to venture a guess and posit that the dead are likely yet more ignorant villagers lured, goaded or forced into the fight by propaganda to live in caves and chant “Death to America” and in this they’re no different than Yanks who sit around at their computers watching youtube, cheering “Woohoo piss on them ragheads” Different idols, same, exact kind of people.

    The top brass in the US military are on record saying it was bad. What are you gonna tell them to suck, hm? Questions abound.

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  23. hohokiss

    We have built hospitals, roads, schools, mosques and protected way too many woman and children from rape and kidnapping to count. We have never beheaded someone or used a child as a human shield. We do not use terror to oppress minorities

    Soldiers vulgarly filming themselves urinating on people they’ve killed and publicizing it easily undoes any of the “good” listed above. That had to be so completely totally beyond obvious.
    Whats the next step to take? Go from village to village, educating people at gunpoint not to be so Muslimly senstiive, that a well-deserved piss joke now and then is okay, and if they don’t like it, piss on them?
    US forces are all-volunteer, so I’d say they made this video of their own free will, too

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  24. Section8

    ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? Your moral equivalence is staggering.

    No he’s not, and here’s the deal. Europe hasn’t found reasons to hate us, they actively look for reasons. There’s a clear difference. That’s been going on for years. You watch someone long enough hoping to find slip ups, you’re going to find slip ups. It just happens. A friend would say, that’s fucked up, but over all you’re OK. Someone that doesn’t like you anyhow is going to go say see, what an asshole, look at what just happened, and is going to be absolutely oblivious to any good that might have been done because they don’t care. Find the negatives and magnify them, ignore the positives or diminish them as much as you can. That shit has been going on for years from our so-called allies.

    So… We’re don’t have any control over the European population, what they should or shouldn’t think, or their opinions, nor should we. If they want to think we’re all stupid, self-absorbed fuck your sister in the ass rednecks, I say let them. What we do have control over is how much of our money we want to continue to pour in to this NATO alliance to protect countries that are more like acquaintances at best. It’s time to pull out, and back to our earlier thread, this is one of the reasons I like Ron Paul. He’ll actually will make an effort to do this, although I don’t agree with all his comments on the whole matter over the years either, I think he has the right strategy over all.

    As for Afghanistan, trying to cozy up to a snake won’t turn it into a rabbit no matter how hard we try. They want to continue to be a stone age country where they beat the shit out of each other and stone their women, let them have at it. Our job as a nation is to defend its existence. They fuck with us again, they’re gone, that should be our policy, Our over all foreign policy should be no nation building, no Hitler II prevention, no nothing. Our focus should be on us and that’s it. We’re going to get the self centered label regardless, I’d just prefer it not be by spending ourselves to death and weakening our country for the benefit of those who don’t give a shit or resent us.

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  25. hohokiss

    Europe hasn’t found reasons to hate us, they actively look for reasons. There’s a clear difference. That’s been going on for years. You watch someone long enough hoping to find slip ups, you’re going to find slip ups. It just happens

    I dealt with that for decades, lving overseas – Euros assuming I, a dual national without an accent, was one of them, going on forever educating me on how uncultured American occupiers really lived and (in)bred. Story goes Euros kicked their evil lazy stepbrothers out of the house, who then left for the Americas to slaughter, rape and humiliate the natives, steal their land, and then got slaves to tend it, etc. Nothings changed.

    And when I went to Africa, now and then the locals would want to know if this whitey was an unfriendly arrogant Euro … or maybe even the American Satan himself!
    I always felt safer traveling with a Euro passport. I’ll bet real Yanks would never do anything that cowardly, they wear their colors with pride.

    Ah, piss on everyone, eh.

    This fugly video above again shows us where our “values” are anymore these days. Instead of the Web creating a global village that can police itself and offer freedom of speech, it merely lets people be themselves, anonymously, with far less chance of going to jail for it.
    I know many kids and their parents who act and sound exactly like typical youtube “conversations”- %#%$ you #% % lol #%#%. you too haha.

    The heads of major Internet companies say they grant that music publishers and Hollywood studios have a real problem — people are stealing their music and movies, making digital copies that are as crisp and clear as the originals, and offering them for download, often from overseas websites.

    The music and film industries say they consider that a major threat, even a decade after Napster made online file sharing a major issue.

    “More than 2.2 million hard-working, middle-class people in all 50 states depend on the entertainment industry for their jobs and many millions more work in other industries that rely on intellectual property,” said Michael O’Leary of the Motion Picture Association of America

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  26. Hal_10000

    There are two different categories of bad behavior in war. One is the sort of random crap that happes in every war — soldiers shooting non-combatants, raping women, pissing on corpses. Our military has a proud tradition of minimizing these problems. For almost any other military in the world, pissing would be the nicest thing they’d do to a corpse. Our reaction to this video is because we expect our soldiers to behave well. And they so rarely disappoint us that we can remember and note each incident.

    But that sort of stuff is going to happen when a war happens. If you don’t like it … don’t go to war. We should punish those who do it but we should also realize that it’s going to happen. When you put young people in danger day after day … well, what do you expect?

    That’s very different from what I have objected to in the past which is official acts sanctioned by he White House (torture, etc.). That is a different kettle of fish entirely, when bad acts are authorizing from people removed from battle, who should have the perspective that peace affords and know the laws and treaties by which they are bound.

    This was not a deliberate condoned act of our military. This was not a result of bad policy. This is the shit that happens in war. The soldiers should be punished (although *not* with criminal charges). But it is not a sign that we are an evil evil country.

    And to call it a war crime … well, corpse desecration probably is (I’m too tired to look it up). But it’s a bit of a stretch. And certainly not on par with fucking My Lai or Abu Ghraib. Jesus Christ.

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  27. hohokiss

    You don’t get to decide if its a crime or just a lil mischief made after a long day, the victims do. And theres nothing you can trot out thats gonna make them feel any better, or a little guilty, too.

    “Well, you people once dragged a dead soldier through the streets of Mogadishu, so….”

    In 1996, Osama bin Laden cited the incident as proof that the U.S. was unable to stomach casualties: when “one American was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear.
    Time magazine decided to cover up the soldiers genitals in a controversial decision.
    Time magazine’s Stephen Mayes replied: “[It] exposes the sensitivities of a nation that is militarily strong enough to confront one dead soldier but morally too insecure to risk the exposure of a single genital, even in such a non-sexual context?”

    Things are different now, soldiers aren’t afraid to show some to the world in a humorous context. Jesus Christ.

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  28. CzarChasm

    While I don’t share hohokiss’s indignation over the pissing incident, I gotta say, I have missed his way with words. Good to see ya jabba. Cheers from Blues. Email me. I don’t look in here often enough to catch messages. If you lost my email, send one to bluestringer55-at-hotmail.com and I’ll get back with my home addy. May take a few days for me to see the hotmail one too though. Later.

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