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UC Davis Spraying

Video here:

Story here. What do you think? I can’t help but think that these kind of responses only provoke more protests. As far as I can tell, the UC Davis occupy encampment was unsightly but not dangerous. Spray them and they’re martyrs. Ignore them and they’re spoiled college students living in tents to demonstrate …. something.

38 comments

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  1. CzarChasm says:

    With few exceptions, the vast majority of videos that I’ve seen where cops are trying to disperse the crowds depict way more force, or like in this vid, intentional infliction of pain, on people not hurting anybody. I would include most of the skirmishes with the NY crowds in that too, though I do acknowledge that force was necessary in the last couple of days when they were trying to shut down the subways and bridges so that the regular “99%” that they claim to be protesting on behalf of, couldn’t even get home from a hard day’s work.

    I spend kind of a lot of time on YouTube. There are thousands of hours of video similar to the above there. I rarely click on them though. Part of OWS’s “plan,” such as it is, is to foment chaos. While I find the above video repugnant, and do think it shows quite a bit more force (through infliction of pain) than is needed, I can’t get too upset over it. The organizers staged the protest in such a way to instigate at least what you see there. They’re probably disappointed not to have video of bleeding, cracked-open heads being carted off on stretchers for the emotional, propagandistic value it would provide. They’ll have that soon enough though.

    CC

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  2. Seattle Outcast says:

    Martyrs? I think not – they don’t inspire other to join them that weren’t already inclined to do so.

    Spray them and they learn that there are lines that can’t be crossed without consequences. Don’t spray them and you embolden them.

    End analysis – send in the hounds sooner rather than later.

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  3. Tool says:

    From the article.

    Perrone said members of the graduate students union reported that students, mostly undergraduates, linked arms and surrounded the encampment if an effort to keep police at bay. He said police used pepper spray to disperse the crowd and made arrests.

    Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/11/18/4065789/10-occupy-protesters-arrested.html#ixzz1eAVrhvZv

    What the hell did these bearded retards think would happen. They surrounded the police and tried to stop them from making arrests. They are lucky the worst they got was pepper spray. Believe me this force was by no means excessive whatsoever, when you break the law and ignore policemen giving orders, dire consequences usually result.

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  4. AlexInCT says:

    Ask these same people what the police should do to people for example “protesting” at an abortion clinic or “protesting” government abuse like the tea partiers did, and the ones that wanted to pretend to not be brutes would tell you the police should have used rubber bullets. The ones that are open would tell you they should have shot them for real.

    I feel no sympathy for these idiots. In fact, if one was my kid, I would cut off their fucking funding. If I am paying for the kid to go to college, the kid better be going to class,, not doing this shit.

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  5. Seattle Outcast says:

    I’d prefer to see the riot sticks get a work out. After the WTO riots here in Seattle ten years ago I’m stopping just short of lining them up on the streets for summary execution.

    Fucking hippies, the only thing that separates them from gypsies is a lack of bathing and a tendency to steal anything not nailed down.

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  6. Hal_10000 says:

    There was no threatening behavior going on. Using rubber bullets or tear gas against people who are just sitting there is more than a bit overboard in my book.

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  7. Hal_10000 says:

    Really? Can you find an example of these guys saying rubber bullets and tear gas should be used on Tea Partiers?

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  8. bgeek says:

    Did CM hijack your account, Hal? Alex was merely speculating. I think he is more correct than not, in general, but dispersing the crowd as such would not be in their plans. Re-education camps would be in order for the tea party’s own good, and by proxy, the greater good. Just think of the job creation.

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  9. Hal_10000 says:

    A couple more videos, one before, one after the spraying. It’s pretty clear, at least to me, that the police actions — campus cop, actions, actually; the guys with the delusion of being police — made things far worse.

    Before:

    http://youtu.be/wuWEx6Cfn-I

    After:

    http://youtu.be/WmJmmnMkuEM

    Notice that the cop who sprayed them was in the group that was supposedly surrounded. He walked ou of the encircling students, turned around and sprayed them. This isn’t a matter of what you think about OWS. I’ve made it clear that my opinion has gone from mildly interested to thinking they’re a bunch of idiots. And these students seem like idiots; self-important idiots (comparing themselves to the protestors in Syria and Egypt is absurd). But we do not live in a country where cops calmly discharge tear gas into the face of non-violent protesters. The Davis police haven’t had any problems.

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  10. HARLEY says:

    I honestly thin that the leaders of the OWS moment Want police brutality, it is vital that they be seen as victims, of the 1%.

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  11. Hal_10000 says:

    I agree Harley. So why should the UC Davis campus craps rise to the bait?

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  12. HARLEY says:

    these kids are not near as bad as the ones up on wallstreet, but they sure want to be.
    They will try to spark something hoping that there is a trigger happy cop willing to oblige them.
    With that being said. if they fuckers, that is all over the US decide to get violent en’mass, then break out the rubber bullets, but i would prefer that the guns be belt fed.

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  13. Mississippi Yankee says:

    Please DO NOT equate tear gas with pepper spray. They are orders of magnitude apart.

    Was tear gassed once, in boot camp, that’s some cruel and unusual shit. Was pepper sprayed, directly in the chest, where it rises and does the most harm BTW, during a survival class a few years ago. Attention getter for sure but not nearly as suicide inducing. And yes, tear gas will make you wanna die!

    Comparing these deterrents as the same is either uninformed or out right dishonest.

    Perrone said members of the graduate students union reported that students, mostly undergraduates, linked arms and surrounded the encampment if an effort to keep police at bay.

    Again, they were doing more than sitting there, they were deterring police from discharging their duties.

    If you insist on sitting in your Ivory Tower at least get some binoculars.

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  14. Mississippi Yankee says:

    But we do not live in a country where cops calmly discharge tear gas into the face of non-violent protesters. .

    Again see above.

    The Davis police haven’t had any problems

    And not likely to for a while.

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  15. Hal_10000 says:

    Noted that I shouldn’t mix up pepper spray and tear gas. But as for “deterring police from discharging their duties.” … these guys weren’t arresting murderers or something. They showed up in full riot gear to remove a tent encampment. And then they sprayed students who has them so hopelessly surrounded that the spraying cop was able to step over them, calmly walk around the students and start spraying.

    There’s a larger issue here beyond OWS, however, and that this is the increasing militarization of law enforcement. We’ve seen it before, especially with the War on Drugs. Frequent SWAT raids, routine shooting of dogs, routine use of flash-bangs and battering rams, almost always when the situation does not require it. I blogged earlier about Jose Guerena, where the default use of paramilitary tactics results in a war veteran getting killed by police.

    Reason has posted up a series of videos of cops firing rubber bullets and gas cannisters at people who are not violent. This pepper spraying is not an isolated incident at all. Violent police response is becoming routine, whether its warranted or not.

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  16. Tool says:

    There’s a larger issue here beyond OWS, however, and that this is the increasing militarization of law enforcement. We’ve seen it before, especially with the War on Drugs. Frequent SWAT raids, routine shooting of dogs, routine use of flash-bangs and battering rams, almost always when the situation does not require it. I blogged earlier about Jose Guerena, where the default use of paramilitary tactics results in a war veteran getting killed by police.

    You know what Hal, I used to be of the same mindset at as you. However, you need to realize the militarization of law enforcement is a reaction to proven dangers. The number of police officers killed every year by gunfire rises and rises. If police serve a search warrant on a place believed to contain drugs, its almost a certainty they will need:
    1) Multiple officers, preferably a large number
    2) Long guns capable of winning in a firefight with drug dealers
    3)Heavy amounts of body armor
    4) Battering rams to breakdown a locked door (the only viable option if a knock and announce is not responded to)

    Also, if you are talking about “swat raids” in the war on drugs, I assume you mean either search warrants or arrest warrants, since these are the only legal means for police to enter someones residence without their consent. Unless there are certain exigencies (like a crime being committed). Put your self in the shoes of any police officer conducting search or arrest warrant involved with drugs. You are told to go into somebody elses house to arrest them or find evidence that would put them in jail for years, knowing that suspect is most likely armed. Wouldn’t you want to have body armor, significant firepower, and a tactical relief element (SWAT) if the situation dictated? The reason law enforcement is becoming “militarized” is because the military uses sound tactics to win violent confrontations. The lack of proper equipment, training, and clearing procedures in houses has led to many many many dead law enforcement officers.

    Please Hal with your extensive experience serving search warrants on drug dealers, tell me what other tactics the police should use so they don’t end up being killed by felons armed to the teeth?

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  17. Tool says:

    Something else i’d like to point out Hal, for every example you drudge up about “blanket law enforcement paramilitary tactics” I can bring up examples where the deaths of law enforcement officers could have been prevented with a more militarized approach to a warrant (or using your euphimism a raid). Whether that approach included flashbangs, SWAT, etc. I still cant understand why you think battering rams are “paramilitary,” I suppose it is because they appear intimidating.

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  18. HARLEY says:

    Please DO NOT equate tear gas with pepper spray. They are orders of magnitude apart.

    Agreed pepper spray is a Topping, CS gas is a fucking pain , ./ had both

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  19. Mississippi Yankee says:

    The police duties were to clear the protesters, the protesters were told EXACTLY what would happen if they remained “encircling the police”. They were even shown the canister.

    Your a parent right? if you tell a child to stop a particular action or X will happen and they defy you then you choice NOT to follow up with your promised response what does the offending party (your kid or student protester) take away from that experience?

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  20. Hal_10000 says:

    Your a parent right? if you tell a child to stop a particular action or X will happen and they defy you then you choice NOT to follow up with your promised response what does the offending party (your kid or student protester) take away from that experience?

    Of course. But I don’t tell my kid I’m going to beat the shit out of her for sulking on the carpet. Your response assumes that (a) a riot gear removal of a tent encampment was appropriate; and (b) pepper spraying people who were in the way was also appropriate. The response was way out of proportion for being done. Your logic (and theirs) is that of a bully: “I told you I would punch you if you didn’t get out my way; it’s your fault!”

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  21. Hal_10000 says:

    Tool, I’m going to have to disagree with you. Violent crime is down 60% in the last 20 years. The FBI’s own database shows that the likelihood a cop will be assaulted in any particular year has dropped from 16 to 10% in the last 20 years — and that’s based on reports, not any investigating. On the job fatalities have dropped by more than 50%, with most off those coming from accidents, not shootings.

    SWAT teams ARE routinely deployed. After the SWAT team raided mayor Cheye Calvo’s home and shot his dogs, he got a law passed to monitor how often SWAT teams are deployed (in the face of vehement opposition). Try 4.5 times per day. There are not 1500 incidents per year that require a SWAT team in Maryland.

    Now you might say increased militarization is the reason for the drop in crime. But the trend of militarization began after crime began to fall and there is little evidence that more-militarized areas are seeing sharper drops in crime. And police unions are resistant to gathering more data. Moreover, SWAT teams deployments are most frequently used for non-violent crimes like drugs and gambling.

    I have no problem with cops being armed and wearing body armor or executing quick raids. The problem is the routine use of these things in situations where they are not required. Look at the Guerena raid I mentioned above. There was no reason they couldn’t have popped out and grabbed him while he was walking out to his car. Or showed up at his work. Or waited until his wife and kid were out of the house. Do you not see a problem with a mentality that defaults to a sudden armed raids on a sleeping man with his family in the house?

    Circling back to this incident: the occupiers had not been violent and they had no weapons. Ultimately, the police walked away … which they could have done with pepper spraying anyone, as clearly shown in the video So why break out the riot gear, the rubber bullets and the pepper spray? Because they were making the campus look messy?

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  22. AlexInCT says:

    Are you really asking that, Hal? I am curious why limit it to tea Parties only BTW? Why not ask for examples of this behavior around all the other things near & dear to the left?

    You forget the union thugs – what the left usually uses to do their dirty work – actually intimidating, and whenever they could, beating up Tea Partiers? You miss the Wisconsin protests? Violence is in the marxist-nanny-staters blood.

    Do you think the media put in all that effort trying to paint the Tea partiers as being comprised of evil racists, violet thugs, and in general evil people that wanted to throw granny off the cliff. That was done so that if they, doing the left’s dirty work, could not turn the public opinion of the movement enough, and make Tea Parties unpopular, it still left enough ‘evidence” that would justify violence.

    We should all be happy that the age of the internet didn’t allow the fifth column to pull that off. I am under no illusion that the objective was to turn the public off. And barring that, to create enough negative feeling towards the Tea Party movement so that if things did go wrong, the tea Partiers would be blamed for it.

    BTW, I had not one, but a couple of leftists tell me that Obama and the democrats would be totally in the right using whatever force they wanted to silence people that where “misinforming” the public – whom one of them even told me was too stupid to know what was better for them and who was better at doing that for them – about things.

    Stop defnding the indefensible.

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  23. AlexInCT says:

    So what were the authorities supposed to do? Nothing? Let the anarchists just be? Cause that wouldn’t have sent the wrong message… Yeah, right.

    BTW, have you noticed that the locations where the police had to get the most “involved” happen to all coincide with the same places where when the marxists-nanny stater alliance was “encouraged” or offered “sympathy” by fellow radicals – i.e. democrats – in government?

    That coincidence, that the places where this mob got out of control and started committing crimes, destroying property, and eventually rioted, was also where government told people to show solidarity with these scumbags, sometimes even encouraging government employees to actively participate, did not escape me.

    Think about that. Maybe that’s why they told the police here not to let these morons think they could get away with more.

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  24. Tool says:

    Apparently you decided to ignore what I said, did I ever refer to assaults on police officers? No, I said,

    The number of police officers killed every year by gunfire rises and rises

    To which you replied

    Tool, I’m going to have to disagree with you. Violent crime is down 60% in the last 20 years. The FBI’s own database shows that the likelihood a cop will be assaulted in any particular year has dropped from 16 to 10% in the last 20 years — and that’s based on reports, not any investigating. On the job fatalities have dropped by more than 50%, with most off those coming from accidents, not shootings.

    http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Patrol/News/2011/07/20/Law-Enforcement-Fatalities-by-Gunfire-Reaches-20-Year-High.aspx

    The number of police officers KILLED BY GUNFIRE, not asaulted or killed by vehicles, is RISING and RISING. Specifically, more police officers are killed serving warrants, which you like to keep calling, “armed raids”.

    Now you might say increased militarization is the reason for the drop in crime. But the trend of militarization began after crime began to fall and there is little evidence that more-militarized areas are seeing sharper drops in crime. And police unions are resistant to gathering more data. Moreover, SWAT teams deployments are most frequently used for non-violent crimes like drugs and gambling

    When did I ever say such nonsense. Please read my posts before you rebutt them. I said,

    However, you need to realize the militarization of law enforcement is a REACTION to proven dangers

    The militarization of law enforcement is an officer safety issue not a crime prevention issue. The number of search and arrest warrants issued by judges is going to stay the same no matter how much body armor and SWAT units police departments can get their hands on. I do hope you understand that.

    Also, you clearly have no knowledge of the drug trade, otherwise you wouldn’t have made this absurd statement.

    non-violent crimes like drugs

    Wherever there is a sizable quantity of drugs, there is almost always firearms. What world do you live in where people who have thousands of dollars worth of drugs are unarmed?

    I have no problem with cops being armed and wearing body armor or executing quick raids. The problem is the routine use of these things in situations where they are not required. Look at the Guerena raid I mentioned above. There was no reason they couldn’t have popped out and grabbed him while he was walking out to his car. Or showed up at his work. Or waited until his wife and kid were out of the house. Do you not see a problem with a mentality that defaults to a sudden armed raids on a sleeping man with his family in the house?

    Hal, do you even read about the cases you cite? The Guerena shooting occured because of a SEARCH WARRANT, A SEARCH WARRANT, NOT AN ARREST WARRANT. The Sheriff’s Deputies had to search Guerena’s residence, not arrest him. So all your reasoning about “picking him up at work” is pointless because they police lacked ANY legal authority to arrest Guerena. So search warrants are “sudden armed raids” now?

    I suppose you would rather the police serve their warrants unarmed and without body armor? That is absolutely ridiculous. Every time the police execute drug warrants they are going to be armed and heavily armored, to strip either of those things away would only make them look less scary and lead to more dead officers.

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  25. AlexInCT says:

    Noted that I shouldn’t mix up pepper spray and tear gas. But as for “deterring police from discharging their duties.” … these guys weren’t arresting murderers or something.

    I wonder how people would feel if they had done nothing and it had gotten to that like it did in some other Ocuppy locations?

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  26. CzarChasm says:

    You know what Hal, I used to be of the same mindset at as you. However, you need to realize the militarization of law enforcement is a reaction to proven dangers. The number of police officers killed every year by gunfire rises and rises.

    That is absolute bunk, and Hal only scratched the surface in demonstrating it.

    If you take any 10-year period from 1995 thru 2010, the numbers have only risen twice, and the way the FBI compiled the stats changed in ’04 from breaking down “felonious killings” of LEOs by type of weapon used, to not breaking it down by weapon used, so the numbers in ’04 forward include felonious killings that used a car, a pipe or bat, one year (actually, ’04 if I recall correctly), that idiot in Texas used his Piper Arrow to fly into the FBI building, and the 10-year averages still fell every year but for the ones starting in 2000 and 2001. Check it out for yourself.

    Law Enforcement Officers Feloniously Killed Between:

    1995 – 2004: 594
    1996 – 2005: 575
    1997 – 2006: 562
    1998 – 2007: 549
    1999 – 2008: 530
    2000 – 2009: 536
    2001 – 2010: 541

    Now look, I’m not saying, and I’m quite comfortable in assuming that Hal ain’t saying, “Yay! Between 500 and 600 cops are getting killed by (mostly) guns every 10 years!” But it’s inaccurate and false “statistics” like, “The number of police officers killed every year by gunfire rises and rises” that makes it easy for politicians and uninformed, unquestioning citizens alike to accept gun control measures that have no basis in fact whatsoever, not even a cursory glance at readily available, highly accurate FBI stats that are put online in easy-to-search and easy-to-read-and-understand formats in a very timely manner. And it also makes it easy for unquestioning and unthinking sheep to accept the militarization of even rural sheriffs and police departments.

    Now, back on-topic, it’s difficult for me to see how anyone can still be claiming that the cops in any of the multitude of videos that are available of this incident at this point, were ever “surrounded” by even the smallest group of protestors. They weren’t surrounded, they weren’t being threatened, in Hal’s second alternate video, only two of those who were sprayed can be seen being dragged away, while the other several victims blended back into the crowd, and the cops dispersed! I mean, if it was important enough to assault these (admittedly idiot) kids’ senses, why not finish the job they were ostensibly sent there to do? Because they were afraid the kids would yell louder? That’s all they were doing was yelling “Shame on you” etc. These highly militarized goons couldn’t even take the yelling, but still got their licks in with pepper spray! What a bunch of friggin’ pussies!

    It never ceases to amaze me how vociferously people will argue, maybe even fight, for theirs and the rights of those whom they identify and mostly agree with, but are perfectly happy to watch American citizens being abused because they don’t/can’t/won’t even attempt to identify with them. One day goons dressed the same way will come for your guns (and maybe beat the shit outta your granny too), or knock you on your ass for video-taping them, or break in your door because they showed up at the wrong address, or because the Dept. of Education wants their student loans repaid (and they might not even be your student loans to begin with) or when you try to assert your rights to free speech, some idiot cop will tell you, “This ain’t America no mo’.” I have no problem recognizing the OWS crowd as the anarchists, reprobate, spoiled-beyond-redemption miscreants that they are. Neither do I have trouble identifying rights that are being abused and violated, and there’s enough of that going on at the OWS “protests,” to my eyes anyway, to conclude that it’s the cops breaking the law more often than the miscreants.

    CC

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  27. Tool says:

    That is absolute bunk, and Hal only scratched the surface in demonstrating it.

    http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Patrol/News/2011/07/20/Law-Enforcement-Fatalities-by-Gunfire-Reaches-20-Year-High.aspx

    No, you and Hal keep ignoring the only statistic I ever pointed to, which was that police fatalities by gunfire are rising and rising. Hence why i cited an article that shows LEO deaths by gunfire at a 20 year high. Yes, LEO deaths by vehicles, and assaults are falling. But deaths by gunfire, which very often occur during warrant service is rising. You want to argue with me, why don’t you look up how many Federal Task Force officers have been killed this year by gunfire serving warrants.

    These highly militarized goons

    Wow, apparently police officers wearing scaring looking helmets and vests suddenly become “highly militarized”. Tell you what Czar, since you seem to think that LEO’s are nothing but goons, why don’t you try serving a search warrant on an armed drug dealer’s house, and tell me how quickly you opt to bring heavy body armor and rifles with you.

    to conclude that it’s the cops breaking the law more often than the miscreants.

    That is bullshit and a gross generalization which I am surprised you of all people would indulge in. The vast majority of Law Enforcement Officers I have worked with are extremely honest people who try their best to uphold the law.

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  28. Section8 says:

    The cops were out of line here, if peaceful resistance is going to be met with violence or force of this nature regardless, then what’s the point of peaceful resistance?

    Besides, if kids are protesting student debt, and the inability to find a job that can pay off such high debt, then protesting at the schools would be the place to do it. The schools are the ones that jack up the prices, not McDonald’s, or IBM or Chase bank, or any other corporation. Schools need to budget, changes can be made on how much money is allocated to things like sports, and maybe a professor could work an hour or two extra a week. There are things that can be done. Of course most of these guys are probably just saying throw more money at it, but as long as they’re doing it at their school where it belongs, and not blocking my drive home, have at it.

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  29. CM says:

    End analysis – send in the hounds sooner rather than later.

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  30. CM says:

    http://andthisourlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/100611_0210_WereWinning10.jpg

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  31. Hal_10000 says:

    I do think the students took a smart approach to the UCD chancellor’s “walk of shame”

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  32. CzarChasm says:

    No, you and Hal keep ignoring the only statistic I ever pointed to, which was that police fatalities by gunfire are rising and rising. Hence why i cited an article that shows LEO deaths by gunfire at a 20 year high. Yes, LEO deaths by vehicles, and assaults are falling.

    Even with links to the FBI stats, you can’t be bothered to check the real stats. Amazing. You’re taking an article that’s only looking at the first six months of this year and comparing the cop murder rate by gunfire to the first six months of last year, and then drawing conclusions about cops being killed by gunfire having “risen and risen” over the last 20 years! And then claim I’m ignoring something? C’mon, that doesn’t pass the chuckle test.

    I used the 10-year analysis pages for brevity’s sake, but still gave you the link to the page where you could find most of the individual-year analysis. For the years between 1996 and 2004 on that page, as I described earlier, the stats are given for type of weapon used in felonious killings, and weapons other than guns, like cars, baseball bats etc., are statistically nil, but no accidental deaths are included in the analysis at all.

    You want to argue with me, why don’t you look up how many Federal Task Force officers have been killed this year by gunfire serving warrants

    Why don’t you provide a link to statistical data? That’s what I did, as opposed to linking to an article that purports to show statistics when all it really shows is a statistical anomaly in one six-month period and goes on to draw inaccurate conclusions for a 20-year period.

    Tell you what Czar, since you seem to think that LEO’s are nothing but goons

    A regular ol’ Canard-O’-Matic today, aren’t you? I gave links to the kinds of goons I was talking about, and I never said “LEOs are nothing but goons.” I have a fine relationship with my local sheriff, and will defend him to the end as long as he continues to serve my community the way he has for nearly 20 years now. But I’ll be damned if I’ll make excuses for him or his subordinates if they start abusing people for speech they don’t like, or for videotaping them as they perform their duties, or if they start thinking their badges are enough to override the Constitution and start confiscating guns on nothing but a Mayor’s or Chief of Police’s illegal orders. I got nothing against body armor or the use of M4s, MP9s or any other small arms either, but if they come to my door to impose their illegal, unconstitutional will on me, they better not have anything against me being similarly equipped. If you want to know why shootings are going up (if they indeed are in any verifiable statistical sense, which you have yet to even come close to proving), maybe it’s because no-knock warrants are going up, and when you wake somebody up out a dead sleep and come in breaking their doors and windows, blasting off flash-bangs, and shooting their dogs, all before they have time to wake up and process what the Hell is going on in their own homes, you have to be a freakin’ moron to be surprised if/when fire is returned. It isn’t the costume or the equipment that they carry that makes them “highly militarized,” it’s the shock-and-awe tactics they employ.

    CC

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  33. balthazar says:

    They were obstructing the police from doing their job. I personally would rather that they were charged with felony obstruction and interfering with police. They got easy with a little fucking pepper-spray instead of anal meat injection therapy, and not being able to vote for the rest of their lives.

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  34. balthazar says:

    I say if the sports program at the school isnt at least self sustaining (college level not HS), with attentance, team fundraising, boosters, then the school shouldnt have the sports at all.

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  35. AlexInCT says:

    DON’T TAZE ME BRO!

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  36. Manwhore says:

    Spray them and they’re martyrs. Ignore them and they’re spoiled college students living in tents to demonstrate …. something.

    I don’t know what stars have aligned but I do agree with you Hal. Technically both sides are right. Mall cops obey the letter of the law and students exercise the right to protest.

    I guess it comes down to which big government liberal organization you adhere to. Judging by this site I would take it that the big government people want here is the authoritarian flavor.

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  37. CM says:

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  38. sahrab says:

    theres other video that have come out, that arent “selectively” edited

    Seems the OWS crowd got the attention they wanted in this instance.

    Note there is a link, in the youtube clip, that doesnt include the comments.

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