That’s because they get it Part Deux.

Manwhore issued me an infantile challenge to put up a post about education. I took some of his request and am writing about the value of an education vs. the cost to get it, and to make the point that there are no job guarantees. While doing the research, I came across a timely and telling story, in the NYT of all places, dealing with the fact, despite the NYT blatant attempt to spin this in the most positive way possible, that some of the young people that disproportionately helped elect Obama are finally getting how bad he is for them.

LAS VEGAS — For much of the presidential election of 2008, Barack Obama’s campaign was Emma Guerrero’s life. She was one of a dozen volunteers who showed up at an Obama campaign office here every night, taking time from her studies at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, to be part of what she still remembers as the most exciting period of her life.

It was largely because of Ms. Guerrero — and hundreds of other college students like her across the country — that Mr. Obama assembled a formidable machine that helped him roll to victory in 2008, a triumph that included putting Nevada into the Democratic column for the first time in 12 years.

“We did everything,” she said. “We went canvassing. Phone banking. Cleaning the offices. Taking out my bosses’ dry cleaning. Whatever they needed. It was such an amazing time because we all believed and wanted him to get elected.”

Ms. Guerrero said that she did not blame Mr. Obama for the 13.4 percent unemployment rate that has gripped this state, and that she was still likely to vote for him. But as she looks to graduation this June and her job hunt ahead, the emotion she feels is fear, and she cannot imagine having the time or spirit to work for Mr. Obama.

“I don’t think I could do it anymore,” she said. “That campaign was an amazing experience. But I don’t think I’m in the same mind-set anymore. He hasn’t really addressed the young people, and we helped him to get elected.”

You got that right Emma: not only did he not “address the young people”, which I suppose means address their needs & concerns, but he made everything worse for them. The thing is that I am certain Emma has no clue how bad her generation and those after are going to have it socked to them. Young people are amongst the ones most disproportionally affected by the high unemployment that the last 5 decades of social engineering gone awry coupled with the last 3 years of Keynesian spending gone mad, have all but stuck us with for the foreseeable future.

Young people are also disproportionately being straddled with the exploded debt caused by the massive deficit spending of the last 3 years as the wealth transfer policies of this administration , which shift the financial burden from the elderly – the big recipients and beneficiaries of SS, Medicare, and most welfare programs – to the young. The left used to complain the youth had it bad in 2006, things are orders of magnitude worse these days, making 2006 look like the golden years. The many fiscal/social obligations of our government continue grow and to climb in cost, while revenue has become stagnant. More frightening is insolvable problem caused by the belief held by some that government should confiscate more wealth, they call it revenue, to keep up the nanny state, and the indubitable negative economic effect that funneling yet more money from the private sector into the public coffers, for a government that would need to take far over 25% of GDP to meet its expenses, will have. Nobody but the ideologues believes that giving government more money will address the problem. Past history should leave no doubt that they would just spend, it and the debt would keep growing. And as the nanny state grows, the wealth transfer needs that keep these politicians in power will get worse, and worse. Many economists already predict that the current generation of young kids, the ones born in the last decade, will be the first to not experience access to the same opportunities to increase their standard of living that was available to their parents.

And then we come to the whole educational morass Manwhore wanted addressed. The cost of all education has grown drastically. Since 1978 its up an unbelievable 900 percent. It continues to grow at a drastic pace, while most of us see that the quality has continued to drop. No where is this more evident than in secondary education. There the cost of a degree has skyrocketed at several times inflation – which now is rearing its ugly head, but that is another topic for another post – and way too many students these days, It costs too much, delivers too little, and is more of a fun ritual that leaves people indebted and way in over their heads. Now add to that the dying Keynesian economy we are living with, and things look really bad. Lets not forget that College has been oversold.

Don’t worry your pretty head though. The Community Organizer in Chief has a plan Basically it allows students to consolidate their loans with the government, portends to lower their monthly payments – which might be impossible if the rates are going up next year as some pointed out – and forgives them their debt in 20 or 25 years, depending on who is talking about it. In its simplest form it is just another wealth transfer scheme really, as government makes tax payers suck up the difference. I wonder who will pay for that, considering how many other outstanding – like Obamacare – we already have. The students have not been too enthusiastic about it though, because most want to have their debts forgiven completely considering they can’t even discharge the damned things in bankruptcy. To me this is just another bubble being created so it can burst, and I am not alone there.

Lucky for us some get that this plan is more of the same stupid of the last 5 decades. Student debt has surpassed credit card debt. Students owe someone or another close to $1 trillion dollars, and the number is growing. Bear in mind that his plan does nothing to address the problem itself: the unholy alliance between government regulations, the loans they provide, and the teaching institutions that have no incentive to control costs when the gravy train is backed by Uncle Sam. Does this sound familiar to anyone? If it doesn’t I would encourage you to look at the whole housing bubble and the role government regulations that forced lenders to give loans to unqualified people, because that was “social justice”, affected home prices and worked out for us all.

And that brings us to the last topic I wanted to cover: not all degrees are created equal. I could probably write the most here, but simply will leave you with STEM. In case you don’t know about that it is a government program to encourage people to pursue technical degrees. That’s because we in the US have a big gap in these fields.

Hope you have fun with it Manwhore. I even left out the OWS whiners, but you can bring them up if you want.

Comments are closed.

  1. Manwhore

    You need to get smacked again, do you? Get the challenge right, village idiot. I asked you to name which degrees were valid and which were not.

    In addition to being a lickspittle dipshit for Rush Limbaugh, I’m going to start to add pathological liar to your list of AMENTAL DISORDER (©2011 AlexinCT HERP DERP LLC.). You’ve intentionally taken this out of context and sculpted a shit pile of derp to talk AROUND what you were challenged to do.

    The question still stands: You tell us which degrees are valid according to you so we can have a laugh at how stupid you really are.

    This page of derpity derp and your one idiotic quote are not what you were challenged to do.

    http://www.izismile.com/img/img3/20100908/640/funny_derp_pictures_640_14.jpg

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  2. Manwhore

    Technical school is the answer? I would’ve take medical school more than that (even though I would have had the tiger by the toe again). Ate least with medical school there is an answer. To say that the future is to go to trade school is FUCKING RETARDED.

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  3. AlexInCT *

    You need to get smacked again, do you? Get the challenge right, village idiot. I asked you to name which degrees were valid and which were not.

    By you and what army? The one that comprises the three stooges (you, CM, and Kimpost)? And I told you I would write whatever I wanted, because I am not interested in what you want or not. Maybe it was your reading comprehension letting you down again. Your nothing but a douche that isn’t even bright enough to know when he is outmatched.

    In addition to being a lickspittle dipshit for Rush Limbaugh, I’m going to start to add pathological liar to your list of AMENTAL DISORDER (©2011 AlexinCT HERP DERP LLC.). You’ve intentionally taken this out of context and sculpted a shit pile of derp to talk AROUND what you were challenged to do.

    So you are going to pull a CM and make up an accusation that I am a liar? At least I understand what stupid logic motivates him to accuse me of being a liar. Like a true liberal he believes that until the the LSM says something there is no proof otherwise, so stories the LSM ignores are people’s opinions. Even after the LSM is dragged kicking and screaming to try and paint something bad for the leftists in the most positive light he will not acknowledge he was wrong, but will nit pick on insignificant minutia or dismiss the obvious by calling it opinion. In your case I think it is just outright rage that you keep making and idiot of yourself.

    The question still stands: You tell us which degrees are valid according to you so we can have a laugh at how stupid you really are.

    The answer is the same: I have no interest in writing that piece. I have repeatedly told you that not all degrees are created equally and that you are a lair for saying you didn’t know that. That’s about as far as I am interested in going with thi.

    This page of derpity derp and your one idiotic quote are not what you were challenged to do.

    Well, if that is how we are going to go about this, then I challenge you to go jump off a 1000 foot cliff, without anything to cushion or retard your fall. When you do that, I will feel bound to write what you want.

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  4. AlexInCT *

    CM, thank you for doing EXACTLY what I point out is your SOP: dismiss me mentioning how obvious it is that another DNC propaganda house organ is going out of it’s way to make something that is bad for the left look as good as possible. Next you will demand a link, from a lefty site – and even then, if you don’t like what it says, deprived of the ability to just question the credibility of the source to dismiss it, you dismiss it anyway – and accuse me of lying otherwise. Then for good measure you throw in some idiotic links and think that somehowe makes you the winner of the arugment. You may think this shit impressive, but it’s not. The only people you have coming along is Kimpost and now our resident Murgio1 replacement. Even better is how you play hurt when others call you out and tell you that what you are doing is pretending you are arguing in good fatih. Maybe I need to do what others do and just ignore your stupid ass. Then again, what is the fun in that?

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  5. AlexInCT *

    I point out that even the government acknowledges that the path to go is into the sciences and engineering fields because the country needs these, and you bring up technical school. Like I told you on the other post man: hire a lawyer and sue your high school and college. You where done a major disservice and whatever was paid to educate you was wasted.

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  6. sahrab

    Alex,

    Just a point, in our society today for most (if not all) non-trade carreers, College is a pre-requisite. Hell even McDonalds has a college (albeit its not an accredited school its more of a Trade school) for its Managers.

    As such, whether college has an adequate return on investment is moot. Its the cost of being able to obtain a carreer.

    Once again, before i get lumped into support the OWS crowd I do not, nor do i support the “We want [fill in the blank] because we got a degree”, just pointing out decrying the cost of the Sheepskin without taking into the account that its required (for the most part) in our society. The debate then becomes whether the cost for Harvard is better than State College

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  7. Retluocc1

    Actually, considering what’s happening to our currency and the resulting change in the labor/capitol balance vs other nations, trade school just might make a lot of sense. I mean, when the dollar is worth so little that immigrants (legal or not) stop coming to the U.S., someone is still going to have to do the brick-laying, electrical work, plumbing, farming, etc. Not to mention that the coming repatriation of manufacturing is going to require skilled welders, machinists, and fabricators.

    Don’t knock technical/trade schools. No one can do those things without proper education and training.

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  8. Seattle Outcast

    I had this argument a couple weeks back with a friend of my wife who is trying to pay for her kid’s college. He wants to get a degree in something stupid (theater arts) while his parents cough up $50K to pay for it. The first problem is that they are too white and well off to qualify for aid, so the tuition is particularly outrageous to them. And second problem is that if he gets a degree in theater arts he might as well go to work for Burger King now and see if he can work his way up to manager four years sooner.

    Anyway, that $50K tuition they are balking at is there because Uncle Sugar keeps making more money available for people to go to college on. There are only so many students, so if the available cash per student expands, the schools are going to find ways to absorb 100% of that cash. Check it out, the cost of education pretty much goes up in lock-step with amount of tax dollars thrown out there to help students. Making more money available actually makes the problem worse, not better.

    The solution is to eliminate 90% of the student aid and force the schools to quit feeding at the endless trough of tax dollars.

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  9. CM

    So you are going to pull a CM and make up an accusation that I am a liar?

    Where did I make it up? Come on, put your money where your mouth is for once.

    At least I understand what stupid logic motivates him to accuse me of being a liar.

    Yeah, it’s the fact that you’re lying.

    Like a true liberal he believes that until the the LSM says something there is no proof otherwise, so stories the LSM ignores are people’s opinions.

    If it’s just your opinion, then you’re not lying. How can this possibly be difficult to understand?!

    Even after the LSM is dragged kicking and screaming to try and paint something bad for the leftists in the most positive light he will not acknowledge he was wrong, but will nit pick on insignificant minutia or dismiss the obvious by calling it opinion.

    How does YOU believing the media to be wrong make ME a liar? How the fuck does that work??!!
    If it’s obvious then back it up with evidence. Evidence that supports what you say, not evidence that actually says something else so you have to rely on twisting it and adding your interpretation to make it fit.

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  10. CM

    Nah, it’s clearly what you do when you can’t find something to support what you say. You have to insert a narrative to try and make it sound like it’s saying what you want it to say.

    Here, let me try it.

    England recorded their first win against Sweden since 1968 to complete a satisfactory Wembley double-header for coach Fabio Capello after Saturday’s victory against World Cup holders Spain.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/15709627.stm

    Typical pro-English news reporting. What they really mean is Sweden and Spain won. They won’t tell you that though, because they’re so blinded by their bias. But we all know better don’t we (wink wink). The real data has been destroyed.

    Next you will demand a link, from a lefty site – and even then, if you don’t like what it says, deprived of the ability to just question the credibility of the source to dismiss it, you dismiss it anyway – and accuse me of lying otherwise.

    Where have I done this? Provide a single example.

    Then for good measure you throw in some idiotic links and think that somehowe makes you the winner of the arugment.

    Where have I done this? Provide a single example.

    You may think this shit impressive

    Nah, sounds dumb.

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  11. ilovecress

    I had this argument a couple weeks back with a friend of my wife who is trying to pay for her kid’s college. He wants to get a degree in something stupid (theater arts) while his parents cough up $50K to pay for it.

    If you want a theare arts degree, then go for it. It will be a good choice if you want a career in theatre.

    In fact, thatre arts as a particularly good choice, as these courses tend to be a bit broader and teach the Stage Management, and production techniques and that sort of thing. Runnung a show is quite a bit like running a (short term) small business – so it does give you an overview of a lot of things a small business owner needs to know. I worked for a few years in Theatre, and a few of the people I worked with have gone on to be quite successful outside the industry.

    But if the career in Theatre doesn’t work out, I don’t think it’s realistic to make ‘designing bridges’ your backup plan.

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  12. Seattle Outcast

    Theater Arts is a complete waste of time – you can ask my sister, the K-mart manager how well her degree has worked out for her.

    You talk as if there are actually any jobs available for these degrees when there aren’t.

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  13. Dave D

    50K for a college degree? That’s cheap. My son’s cost (between the two of us, out of state at Penn State) over $175K. In state is more like $100K for the typical degree here in Michigan.

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  14. Manwhore

    You are about as HERP DERP as they come, and you’re incoherent to boot. Even the government acknowledges what, again? the last time I checked you could get a student loan for just about any career you wanted to obtain.

    Of course, you being the short-sighted, limp dick, lickspittle dipshit that you are think that everyone should be an engineer like you. Why? Well, because in your teensy tiny myopic world view (and I mean pinhead tiny) if everything fit into your experience we’d all be OK.

    Thankfully for us, you just pay taxes and STFU (except that what pays for your lifestyle is my taxes, nothing more) and people realize that there is more to an economy than just engineers and scientists. Or even doctors for the matter (talk about student loan debt). Thankfully you’re just an idiot mouthing off about shit you don’t understand, as evidenced by your “wall of DERP” posts.

    Even your boy-king Rush Limbaugh makes his money by being an ENTERTAINER. Not an engineer or scientist, but a “not qualified to flip burgers” entertainment “specialist. Dipshits like you tune in to hear his DERP, and he gets paid to repeat the DERP you want to hear.

    You know who dictates what careers to have? China. Communist China. You’re DERP is the political version of Ghostbusters when they cross the streams, your stream being conservative and the other being a fucking commie (which it seems you agree with–as other posters have pointed out).

    So, as far as having any relevance to me as an intellectual person, you can suck a fart out of my asshole and blow a smoke ring. You add nothing to a conversation.

    http://chzderp.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/hurr-durr-derp-face-frankly-my-dear-i-dont-give-a-derp.jpg

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  15. Seattle Outcast

    Mine cost about $15K at most, and that was in the late 80’s after a stint in the USAF. After grants, scholarships and working full time, I had loans of $5K to pay off.

    I’m sure my old school charges 3 or 4 times that much now, and the course material is relatively unchanged. It’s called artificial price inflation….

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  16. AlexInCT *

    My story is almost the same as yours, SO. I, well we i should say, ended up paying my wife’s little more than $30K loan however, and I paid them off in 5 years. Anyone that spends the kind of money they want at these top schools these days better be assured they will get a super high paying job, or they are basically screwing up their lives.

    The lesson here is simply that you make sure that what you are going to end up owing for whatever degree you get can easily be carried and paid off based on the least paying job you can get with. I knew this 30 years ago when I went to school. It’s why I did it the way I did. With all the information available because of the internet, and all these savvy kids, I find it hard to believe they couldn’t figure this out on their own.

    Yes, I understand many feel they where lied to by the leftists – and they were to a degree – that college would get you whatever you wanted. I too heard the generic “going to college on average will let you earn a lot more over your working lifetime, but I was not for a second deluded into thinking that would apply to everyone or every degree. Even worse, with everyone doing college, degrees, especially the easy ones everyone goes after, were going to depreciate in value, and it has happened.

    Maybe college education should come with the same warning the SEC demands investment firms put on their prospectus about the cost vs. the reward. What I do know is that the cost will not stop skyrocketing out of control as long as the unholy alliance between colleges and government is gone, loans become harder to get, and schools actually have to deliver the value for these ridiculous charges. What we have gotten from team Blue is only going to keep the problem going. And forgiving the loan debts is an even worse solution. What it tells the next generation is to rack up as much debt as they can then demand the same.

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  17. AlexInCT *

    Hey ilovecress, how likely is a college grad with that theatre art degree to land a stage management job, and how much does that job usually pay? I have no clue, but I suspect that just like all these actor-wanna-bes that that end up working as waiters, there is not much demand for that kind of skill set. Even worse, I doubt they pay much unless you are at the top of the game. It’s like counting on a sports career to become rich. It’s insane odds.

    The thing to worry about here isn’t just what the degree prepares you for, but how many employers are around, in need of someone with those skills, and what they are willing to pay for that someone. Especially when you are carrying around the equivalent of a home mortgage and can not discharge it even in bankruptcy. Anyone that put themselves in a bind where they have ridiculous debt obligations and a degree that doesn’t outright give you the chance to work and earn enough to pay that off, to me show that they lack vision and are not that great of a prospective employee. I interviewed a few of those and I was flabbergasted at how they thought I was crazy for pointing out they could have worked and reduced the debt load they ended up with. One girl even let it slip that there wasn’t time to work and fully live college experience. She didn’t get my thumbs up or a job there even if she thought her looks were going to do it for her.

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  18. Miguelito

    Yeah, that’s just a ridiculous amount of money. I think people that are paying that much are getting screwed. There’s really no way the education is really that much better then the same degree at another school that costs less.

    My experience was similar to SOs. I went to a CC first, then transferred to SDSU after getting an AA (now that’s a useless degree) and ended up with a BS in Computer Science (which was considered under Math at the time, 1998). The total cost was maybe around $15k, and I took a total of 7 years at the 2 schools since I worked nearly full time (and had to retake a couple classes when I stupidly loaded up on a bunch of hard and very heavy work load CS classes one year). Thankfully my parents paid for the bulk of the cost.

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  19. AlexInCT *

    Since you question my contention that the liberal media is so biased that when they are unable to bury unfavorable stories, they manipulate the wording, I point you to the journolist scandal . You will not find much in the LSM about this story. That is, other than them trying to pretend it wasn’t a big deal and that people are exaggerating what went on. But if you think they are right about it being exaggerated or that there is no problem with the media colluding to “get the story right” – and that story being things that help the left and in particular a clueless, inexperienced, empty suit get elected president – then you either suffer from the same bias or think Pradva was a great newspaper too.

    That’s why people like me, people that are not hard core leftists that think they are the barometer of what a centrist is like you do, always feel obliged to read between the lines of anything produced by the LSM. Just like I know that when the left says that unemployment numbers are “unexpectedly” not good or disappointing, it is bullshit, because they are at least ugly, and very likely terrible. Or when they tell us 9% unemployment isn’t so bad time after time, thinking we forgot when they were decrying a 5% unemployment under Bush as a depression back in 2004 right before the election.

    So CM, the problem is with you. Not me. I see the bias and call it out. You accuse me of being dishonest because I will not accept the line of bullshit served by the propagandists. Methinks what we have is a case of projection. Don’t worry. i do not expect any kind of applogy. My bet is you will double down.

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  20. Mississippi Yankee

    Miguelito, my youngest dd almost the exact same thing only at Mississippi State. He worked 32-38 hours a week in the photo dept. at an evil Walmart.

    Raytheon welcomed him with open arms… if he had been a vet they may have s*ck his d*ck too.

    Tuition was that much different here either.

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  21. Mississippi Yankee

    If higher education were to be made free (tax funded), wouldn’t that make student loans a bit easier to manage? Just a thought.

    Sorta like (paraphrasing here) “to each according to their needs, from each according to their ability”

    Why should I pay for any ones Gender Studies degree? Handing them a mirror would be a hell of a lot cheaper? In fact they can just use their phones, my junk was the second pic I ever took on my phone… also my last.

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  22. sahrab

    Entry level education (Kindergarten through Grade 12) is tax payer funded (definetly not free). This alone shows that Government involvement doesnt make it easier to manage, if anything it is an example of how easy it is to mismanage the system.

    Interestingly enough, it also shows the eminent failure of Government Healthcare (if Canada, Britain and the rest of Europe that employs Socialized Medicine hasnt been able to convince you).

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  23. AlexInCT *

    Entry level education (Kindergarten through Grade 12) is tax payer funded (definetly not free). This alone shows that Government involvement doesnt make it easier to manage, if anything it is an example of how easy it is to mismanage the system.

    Give that man a cigar! Well put sahrab. It’s actually one of the biggest complaints of anyone in secondary education these days too: the kids that complete the government schooling think they know everything and are geniuses, but know nothing and aren’t even smart or humble enough to realize that.

    Besides, if government started subsidizing secondary education, more than it already does so ineffectively with the whole loans scheme, we would more likely just see the quality there drop drastically too. That and we would have perpetual students like they do in countries that do subsidize their secondary education. You know, the lazy people that think work is for suckers and would look for any excuse not to have to do any of that for as long as possible, and their whole life if allowed.

    Interestingly enough, it also shows the eminent failure of Government Healthcare (if Canada, Britain and the rest of Europe that employs Socialized Medicine hasnt been able to convince you).

    Why would they get convinced by what actually is going on? All you need is even more pressure and tyrannical regulation by government to control the social engineering. When you point out that the countries with the harshest controls, the USSR, Cuba, North Korea, and so on, also have the poorest healthcare, despite what they claim on paper, your average leftists believes, or Moore makes a mockumentary to pretend otherwise about, all are failures, they tell you the right people have not done it or that you are purposefully being obtuse and narrow in your interpretation of “the problem”.

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  24. AlexInCT *

    Manage like the government used Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae to manage mortgages? This sounds an aweful lot like when people say a bull “services” a cow. I shudder at the thought.

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  25. CM

    Then you’re no better than they (apparently) are. Because they’re so bad they have to make shit up, you have to make shit up too.

    You can dress it up in whatever conspiracy theories you like, you’re justifying making shit up and deciding what you’re made up is fact.

    Or when they tell us 9% unemployment isn’t so bad time after time, thinking we forgot when they were decrying a 5% unemployment under Bush as a depression back in 2004 right before the election.

    You must have a mental deficiency if you think they are even remotely comparable. Seriously, that’s fucking ridiculous.

    So CM, the problem is with you. Not me. I see the bias and call it out.

    You’re not “calling out bias” you moron. Jesus. You’re assuming everything you read is wrong and correcting it to fit your own bias. You even admit it.

    You accuse me of being dishonest because I will not accept the line of bullshit served by the propagandists

    I judge what the media says on it’s merits. But you self-admittedly deliver an unfiltered torrent of propaganda.

    Methinks what we have is a case of projection. Don’t worry. i do not expect any kind of applogy. My bet is you will double down.

    Keep on talking shit and pretending I’ve said all kinds of nonsense and I’ll be happy to keep pointing it out, and you can keep both admitting you’re making shit up and denying it at the same time. Most importantly you be sure to keep ignoring all my questions. It’s accusations that count. Backing them up is WAY WAY beyond you, obviously.

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