The Beatings Will Continue

OK guys. Whaddya think? I should warn you that the video is disturbing, so I’m moving it below the fold. it shows a Texas judge beating his 16-year old daughter for downloading stuff from the internet. Oh, she has ataxic cerebral palsy. Sufferers frequently have difficulty communicating. The story is here. The follow-up, including an interview with the judge that makes him very unsympathetic is here.

So … over the line? Abusive? Should he be voted out of office?

Comments are closed.

  1. AlexInCT

    As a honest person that doesn’t project and that got beat a lot, and beat hard, as a kid, my first question after watching BOTH parents being involved is: what did she do?

    I was a down right nasty disobedient, trouble maker, and were it not for the fact my parents didn’t give up and simply let me do whatever the hell I wanted, I would likely today be dead or in jail. Despite the fact that there are some people out there that are absolute assholes and beat kids up for fun, I know way too many kids with attitudes that play the fucking victim after they push things to the limit and end up getting a beating for it. I have a hard time believing that both parents get their jollies beating up kids. It’s obvious she did something that really ticked both of them off, and the problem is that this video shows none of that.

    If you also want a good reason why kids today respect nothing and nobody and feel so entitled to everything, look at how any attempt to discipline criminals-in-training ends up being classified as child abuse these days. Yea, I am all against child abuse, but let’s not call anything and everything child abuse. Some kids need a good beating. And I know. I was one of them.

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  2. Kimpost

    Wtf? The video needs no explanation. Nothing excuses that kind of beating. Nothing. He should serve time for it. If that’s not possible, he should lose his job. Preferably because of criminal charges, but if that’s is not possible, then people should vote him out of office out of disgust.

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  3. Kimpost

    She downloaded video games. She didn’t kill anyone. Nor did she rob anyone. Nor did she distribute heroin. Not that any of that would matter.

    And when looking at the video I see a possibly frightened mother. She acts like a douche, but I get a feeling that she’s on the fathers side to protect the daughter from a worse beating.

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  4. CzarChasm

    Both Mom and Dad should be in jail, period. That is not likely to happen unfortunately though, because this beating happened in 2004 and the statute of limitations is probably run out. The victim in the video taped it and held onto it “…until the right time,” which I guess was a few days ago according to the Gawker link in the OP. Mom has since divorced Dad, and not much info is given about Hillary’s (the victim) status as of now, though I’m sure with the vid going viral in the last few days, one could find out what’s up with her without much trouble. I didn’t search.

    I have nothing against corporal punishment by parents of their kids. I got spanked a few times as a kid, and am no worse the wear for it. But this video does not depict a spanking, it depicts a sadistic, out-of-control grown man mercilessly beating a defenseless child. He even says, “I’m going to BEAT you into SUBMISSION.” This is not tough love, it is pure, unadulterated violence. Of course he should lose his job. And if there’s no statutory impediment to prosecuting him at this late date, he should lose his freedom too. I’m frankly amazed that there’s even a question about it.

    CC

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  5. AlexInCT

    She downloaded video games.

    If I told my kid not to download video games – somebody has to pay for these I remind you – and he does anyway, you can bet that I would beat his ass. Today it is video games. Tomorrow the kid steals from a store or a bank.

    She didn’t kill anyone. Nor did she rob anyone.

    Must be that idiotic European sense of what’s wrong vs. what’s right. It explains why even people that kill other people rarely stay in jail for long there too. And if those games cost money and she used their credit card to pay it despite being told not to, then fuck yeah, she robbed someone.

    Nor did she distribute heroin.

    That comes later, after she figures that no rules apply to her. Of course by then if the parents try to discipline her she would shoot them.

    Not that any of that would matter.

    Actually what you said did matter a lot Kimpost: it served as a perfect illustration of how stupid people like you are about the problems caused by actually creating a system that tries to negate the concept of cause and effect and shield people from the reality that actions have consequences.

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  6. Poosh

    wtf is this?

    The judge should be in jail, end of story. FFS! This is assault.

    / unless she like bullied someone or something likewise horrible, but I seriously doubt that.

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  7. Dick Fitzwell

    I took some beatings when I was a kid and I deserved every one of them. But my dad never whipped his belt at me wildly like this asshole. He never just started swinging his belt looking for any place to connect leather to skin. He never let his emotions get out of control. Instead of coming to get his rocks off, or “get his lick in” as this asshole said, my dad always looked disappointed to have to do it. He damn sure never told me anything like, “You don’t deserve to fuckin’ be in this house.” Awful.

    This girl may be a shitty kid. I don’t know anything of what led up to this. For all I know she may have driven her father over the edge. Is that any excuse? Fuck no. Eat shit asshole.

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  8. Poosh

    OK, after reading the background, this man isn’t fit to have children let alone be a judge. How does a degenerate such as he get to power? He should be in jail, this is disgusting. I can understand beating a child who beat another child or did something bad or dangerous, as that’s appropriate parenting. But this clearly has nothing to do with discipline and more to do with pathological problems this judge has. He is no better than a parent who lets his child run wild.

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  9. Poosh

    To be logical and rational, an explanation might justify this. If she threw bricks at a car for example, or smashed in a child she was bullying’s teeth.

    But all she did was download tunes? wtf?

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  10. Poosh

    Today it is video games. Tomorrow the kid steals from a store or a bank.

    Every single person I know downloaded video games and music, and tv shows.

    Not a single one of them have has robbed a bank. Most of them are now professionals.

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  11. Poosh

    I downloaded Doom once

    Clearly I’m going to rob a bank

    Imagine if I’d downloaded Half-life! I’d probably be running a tinpot dictatorship in Africa somewhere by now!

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  12. CM

    Absolutely disgusting. In my opinion nothing justifies a physical assault. Least of all physical assault against a child.

    I can understand beating a child who beat another child or did something bad or dangerous, as that’s appropriate parenting.

    I couldn’t disagree more. How does that logic work?
    I’d hate it if my kids feared me. I want them to respect me. They’re not going to respect me if I beat them (some people pretend it’s ‘respect’ but it’s patently just fear). There are a whole range of suitable punishments when kids act badly. Physically assaulting them is the resort of people who ultimately can’t be bothered behaving like proper parents. They’re not going to learn about why their behaviour was bad. Their development, and growing up in general, is only going to be delayed. I’ve heard the old “beatings never did me any harm, probably did me some good” narrative a number of times. Ah no, sorry, the reality is much more likely to be that you’ve managed to overcome getting beaten as a child. Many don’t. If you have, and you’re reasonably together and don’t have anger or other issues, then good for you, you’re lucky (or you’ve worked hard on it).
    If my kids are violent towards each other or someone else they are certainly punished. And they are told that nobody in this family causes physical harm to anyone, period. But the last thing that happens is a physical assault.

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  13. Kimpost

    If I told my kid not to download video games – somebody has to pay for these I remind you – and he does anyway, you can bet that I would beat his ass.

    Would you sadistically tell him that you would “beat him into submission” too? Would you be as fucking cold as the judge was? Seriously, did you watch the video?

    This isn’t a theoretical discussion about spanking, this is a clear case of abuse. The video, in my opinion, shows a grown man sadistically beating his daughter.

    I swear, do we really have to disagree on this video?

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  14. CM

    I couldn’t watch much of it, I knew it would make me too angry and depressed. Before I had kids it probably wouldn’t have had quite the same effect.

    People attempting to justify physical abuse of children does my head in (non-violently!). And yeah, I’m not referring to spanking a kid’s hand as he or she moves it toward the red hot stove element, or grabbing a kid with force to stop them running onto a busy road after a ball.

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  15. CM

    As the daughter says, the guy needs help. Anyone who physically assaults their kids need help.

    We have a really bad problem of child abuse in NZ. It’s some cultural problem here. Hard to determine exactly why. Anyway, this year the law was changed so that now it’s even a crime to turn a blind eye to it. Too often these crimes are hidden because family members do nothing.

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  16. Hal_10000 *

    I held off on posting this until the judge had his say. “It’s not as bad as it looks” doesn’t exactly fill me with sympathy. I am pro-spanking, when called for. But this just seemed massively out of proportion. Almost as disturbing was the mother telling her to stand up and take it like a grown woman.

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  17. AlexInCT

    Every single person I know downloaded video games and music, and tv shows.

    How many of them downloaded content you had to pay for without permission of those that got stuck with the payments?

    Not a single one of them have has robbed a bank. Most of them are now professionals.

    Let me guess? lawyers and politicians? :)

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  18. AlexInCT

    Would you sadistically tell him that you would “beat him into submission” too?

    No I would not. My kid has only needed spanking once, when he was really young, and that’s because he learned that lesson and understands there will be consequences. And I saw no sadism in that beating and wonder why you do. What I did see was real angry parents, that obviously had been pushed to the breaking point, trying to discipline a chilled that resisted even that. I know about that because I was one of those kids. I didn’t whine like that girl did though and took my punishment after I knew I had been bad.

    Would you be as fucking cold as the judge was?

    Drama queen much? You have no clue what made him angry other than what you saw on a video. Cold would be not teaching children there are consequences and having them grow up to believe the rules don’t apply to them. We have a world full of those kinds of assholes, and in general they have made the world a shittier place than it needs to be.

    Seriously, did you watch the video?

    WTF? Of course I watched the video. What I didn’t get from the video is anything else that would put this kid into perspective, but it is obvious that this kid pushed those parents to the breaking point. If they where the “sadist” types, there wouldn’t be a single video: there would be dozens.

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  19. AlexInCT

    But all she did was download tunes? wtf?

    What if she has downloaded thousands of dollars in “tunes”? I know of a kid that has racked up $20K on a fucking credit, there is a hsitory of this sort of behavior, card and the parents have no clue what to do. Maybe if they had shown the asshole that they wouldn’t let that happend a long time ago, they wouldn’t be where they are now, spending dollars on a lawyer to fight the credit card company and keep the munchkin out of jail.

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  20. CM

    The argument isn’t “Today it is video games. Tomorrow the kid steals from a store or a bank”, it’s “Physical abuse is far from the only way to discipline a child, and is about the last choice in terms of them learning why what they did was wrong”. Beating a child for downloading video games isn’t going to make them less liable to rob a bank. If anything it would make them more liable to engage in bad behaviour as adults (including robbing a bank).

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  21. CM

    I’m (geniunely) sorry that you got beaten as a child Alex. Our disagreements or personal abuse against each other is completely irrelevant in terms of how I feel about that.

    What I did see was real angry parents, that obviously had been pushed to the breaking point, trying to discipline a chilled that resisted even that.

    What they should have done is sought help to learn non-violent techniques and methods. Unfortunately some people consider seeking help or assistance as a weakness. As if they’ll be considered bad parents, when in fact it would show the opposite.

    I didn’t whine like that girl did though and took my punishment after I knew I had been bad.

    Unfortunately this is the mentality that results from it. She’s considered weak for ‘whining’ about being beaten.

    Cold would be not teaching children there are consequences and having them grow up to believe the rules don’t apply to them. We have a world full of those kinds of assholes, and in general they have made the world a shittier place than it needs to be.

    This assumes the choices are either to beat the child, or do nothing. That’s a fallacy.
    I would guess the assholes of the world are disproportionately made up of those who’s parents took the lazy and easy way out and beat their children.

    What I didn’t get from the video is anything else that would put this kid into perspective, but it is obvious that this kid pushed those parents to the breaking point.

    There shouldn’t be a ‘breaking point’ whereby they have no choice but to be violent. There is ALWAYS a choice.

    Don’t get me wrong, I know from personal experience how kids can get a parent so mad you just want to whack them. Been there many times. But I’ve been strong enough to exercise self-control and acted responsibly. Carrot and stick techniques can work brilliantly, particularly when they involve the kid having to work the issue through and own the problem and consider their behaviour choices.

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  22. CM

    Have the parents sought help? How old is the kid? Did they just let them get away with everything when the kid was younger? (Letting bad behaviour go unpunished is just as bad as beating as it doesn’t address the actual issue at all)

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  23. Manwhore

    I was spanked as a child, and sometimes I got it pretty good. However, my step father always administered to the butt and there was a count (usually between 3 and 10) that was pre-determined and told to me before the spanking happened. In retrospect I probably deserved it and came out no worse for the wear.

    That said, this was a beating by a sociopath, wildly swinging in rage and physically abusing his child. He beat her, mocked her, beat her again and only stopped when he’d exhausted himself. I understand the need for corporal punishment, but that was not a display of it.

    He shouldn’t be swinging a gavel, he should be swinging a cell door closed.

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  24. West Virginia Rebel

    I got my hide tanned by my dad’s belt a couple of times. I also got a count, and an explanation of why it happened.

    This guy is supposed to be an educated man. The daughter may have uploaded it out of revenge (he apparently threatened to take her Mercedes away) but he looks like he’s off his meds here.

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  25. CM

    In retrospect I probably deserved it and came out no worse for the wear.

    I hear this a lot. My questions are

    1. Why was specifically being hit what you deserved? Why didn’t you just deserve a fitting punishment, proportionate and relevant to what you did wrong? Suggesting that being hit was deserved almost sounds like you don’t believe there was any alternative.

    2. How do you know you came out no worse for the wear? Sure, you haven’t (as far as I know) committed serious crimes. But if you weren’t hit then it’s possible you might have a different opinion about the physical abuse of children.

    However, my step father always administered to the butt and there was a count (usually between 3 and 10) that was pre-determined and told to me before the spanking happened.

    To me, these qualifications mean little. I think pre-meditated physical abuse is even worse than simply striking out in anger. If he’s counting to 3 or beyond, he’s got time to consider better alternatives to disciplining you and getting you to address the actual issue (why you’re in trouble and what better choices could have been made).

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  26. Poosh

    This isn’t at all discipline, I mean she’s 16 years old, wtf is the parent doing still striking a child like that anyway? He was assaulting her, and if she had pulled out a knife and stabbed him, that would be entirely morally right, good, and in her defence.

    Even worse is the fact that a male is beating a girl. He’s literally beating up a girl.

    If what she did is so bad, which it no doubt isn’t, then she’s 16 fucking years old. Call up the bloodsucking corporation and ask them to sue her or whatever. He is clearly tormenting her, that’s not discipline. This video, now that i’ve seen all of it, is far more horrific than paranormal etc, the thought grossed my mind that it was fake and some sort of viral marketing, for a split second.

    How the hell does scum like this get to be a Judge!? You can’t even compare it to child rearing as she’s not even a child, she’s 16 fucking years old! Isn’t that the age you go to University in America?

    All my beatings as a child were delivered by my mother, never by my father. The fact that the mother offers to discipline her “child” in that video and the Father doesn’t leave it with her shows he has a strong sadist streak. The tormenting after the event was not discipline, it was further verbal abuse and humiliation.

    And as for authenticity, note he constantly uses the ‘f’-word’ …. if he’s all for discipline and a good mannered child, then why is he using foul language in front of his offspring?

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  27. Poosh

    So… 95% of every single “Internet generation” youth and probably almost everyone in this forum, and any given forum on the internet at any given time, who has downloaded a game or music on some sort of P2P program (I have assumed this is what is going on), deserves to be beaten and assaulted in this manner?

    Even if she stole a credit card to buy, I don’t know, some Steam game download, she’s 16 years old, a teenager, not a kid. March her to the police station and press charges. She’s 16, in England I can legally sodomise her and it’s 100% kosher – she’s not a child.

    All this does is copious psychological damage and daddy issues which will probably translate into a classic slut getting back at Daddy.

    Great parenting!

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  28. Manwhore

    We agree poosh. this monster deserves our harshest punishment. She was thoughtful enough to record the affair and I hope he is punished thoroughly for it. No man should beat a defenseless woman, much less his own daughter.

    He is a monster.

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  29. CM

    Perhaps he should be beaten up on film, which can then be released to the world. I’m sure that’d learn him. He’d see the errors of his ways immediately.

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  30. Manwhore

    I do have an issue with beating someone 16. Even more for the fact that she thought enough to video tape it. At that age spankings are done. She was abused and mocked. My parents didn’t even spank me at that age.

    this monster whipped her ass (physically) and now thinks that it’s “not as bad as it seems.” He clearly abused her, IMHO. No child should have to endure that, and if she is disabled….He’s even more of a monster.

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  31. CM

    “not as bad as it seems”…..”in retrospect I probably deserved it”….”came out no worse for the wear”….

    All statements seeking to qualify and justify….

    I would be interested in your answers to those question if you’re interested in responding to them.

    Who on earth even spanks kids at 16??

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  32. Mississippi Yankee

    Took quite a few beating an awful lot like that as a kid. And every one of them was administrated by angry parents, mostly my father. It makes me angry to this day.

    When my first wife was pregnant with our first child I vowed I;d never spank a kid while angry. Kept that vow too.

    Both of my adult sons have seen this video and commented how awful a parent this man seemed. And they both agreed that sitting waiting for their dad to ‘expel his demons’ was worse than the actual punishment in most cases. (they’re 15 years apart and grew up in different households)

    CM, over the years I’ve seen more than a few friends and family attempt your non-corporal method. Some successes, some dreadful failures, but in every case it came down to the maturity of the mom and dad and more importantly the consistency of their parenting. Good luck with yours, Mine are my greatest triumph.

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  33. CM

    The people I’m most impressed by are those who took beatings themselves, but didn’t in turn dish it out to their kids. Anyone who breaks those sorts of cycles deserves praise.

    Good on you.

    Yeah I think consistency is very important. Thinking ahead, being on the same page, etc.
    No argument that the best parenting can sometimes be no match for what comes back fromt he kid (or adult when they grow up).

    I try not to get too judgemental about parents that do smack/spank their kids, because being a parent is sometimes fucking hard and we’re all so tired so much of the time. We’re not robots and can’t be expected to operate perfectly all the time. I sure as hell have my areas where I need to work harder.

    It’s beer o;clock on a Friday afternoon here, so I’m heading off. You can have a break from me over the weekend as the wife is off teaching (The Treaty fo Waitangi, our founding document) so I’ll be spending time with the kids (trying not to whack them).

    Have a good weekend everyone (when you get there finally).

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  34. Poosh

    So let me get this straight, we have a consensus finally (almost) and somehow CM, you are trying to ruffle it up by suggesting those who apply physical discipline are in the wrong or bad in some way? Even coming off as condescending to the recipients!

    From what I understand you think Manwhore’s Step Father’s “per-meditated” discipline regime is worse than lashing out at anger… and I can only infer you are suggesting he is a bad father or at least wrong-headed. As if you are morally better to his step-father or the majority of parents around the world who do exactly the same thing.

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  35. AlexInCT

    I assumed no such thing. My guess is since this was years ago she downloaded paid for software she was told not to. Even more important is the fact that we have no clue how frequently she has engaged in behavior she was told not to. For all we know these parents tried hundreds of times and in all kinds of ways to get her under control and she simply refused.

    I did want to point out however that nobody here calling this abuse seems to have picked up that she had been given clear instructions – lay down on the bed and just let them hit her on the butt – and continued to resist even those. That stuck out to me because I did much of the same. It was outright defiance on my part even when I knew I deserved the punishment, and I bet it was the same with her, and likely more, because she knew she was taping this.

    If she had followed the instructions given and they had still beat her hard and disproportionately I would concede that this was abuse. But all I saw as a kid that refused to comply with her parents and made things worse. All people have limits. And she played them well considering she was the only one that knew the camera was rolling.

    Some people have questioned the timing of this video coming out. I do to, but for different reasons. The asumption the kid is a saint and a victim to me seems prepsoterous considering how she had the upper hand and seemed to act to antagonize the parents. I was that kid. I see it clearly happening.

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  36. AlexInCT

    The argument isn’t “Today it is video games. Tomorrow the kid steals from a store or a bank”, it’s “Physical abuse is far from the only way to discipline a child, and is about the last choice in terms of them learning why what they did was wrong”.

    So without any clue about her history you have passed judgment on the parents, likely because of our own biases. She was told to lay on the bed and let them spank her. She refused to comply and continued to antagonize them. To me that is a clear sign of a kid that refuses to comply, period. That her dad has to tell her he will beat her into submission if necessary proves to me this behavior by her is the constant.

    If she had complied and he had hauled off on here and just went to town I would be on your side accusing him of abuse. But I was that kid in the video. I refused to comply even when I knew if I went along the punishment was going to be a fraction of what exasperated and enraged parents that had been putting up with rank lack of respect for any kind of authority could and would do. And the fact that she is running the camera and is the only one that knows it should make you wonder even more what would have happened if she had simply laid down on the bed and taken her punishment.

    But go ahead. Preach from your high horse. I remain convinced that this attitude that the parents always are at fault when the punks of today think they are above the rules run amok and they finally have had enough and do something about it is precisely why we have so many that feel the rules shouldn’t apply to them. This whole corporal punishment is barbaric thing will sooner than later bring us back whole circle. Hopefully the damage isn’t going to be as bad as I expect it to be.

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  37. Manwhore

    1.) I don’t know if I would have complied without corporal punishment. Maybe. However, I was pretty unruly and feel that my parents probably did what they had to d

    2.) I am not a bad person. I am without child, but I am not bad. In addition, my nephews are not getting spanked. My brother did not carry on the tradition of corporal punishment. Good, bad, or ugly, we’ll see how it turns out. I’m proud of him for doing it his way. However, I do somewhat agree that this is child abuse. Maybe he broke the cycle of abuse, maybe he goes back to it.

    I’m a guy who believes not all things we did for thousands of years are bad.

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  38. AlexInCT

    I’m (geniunely) sorry that you got beaten as a child Alex.

    I am not. I was a monster, and had my parents simply given up on me I have no doubt that I would have been in jail or dead.

    Our disagreements or personal abuse against each other is completely irrelevant in terms of how I feel about that.

    Yeah, but they are biases that can and will affect how we see things. Especially things like this which are taken out of context and in a vacuum.

    What they should have done is sought help to learn non-violent techniques and methods.

    My parents tried that. It was a big waste of time. Do you know if this girl’s parents didn’t try it too?

    Unfortunately some people consider seeking help or assistance as a weakness. As if they’ll be considered bad parents, when in fact it would show the opposite.

    Actually they feel that way because that’s precisely what happens. Most people here already passed judgment on these parents based on a video and no other evidence.

    Unfortunately this is the mentality that results from it. She’s considered weak for ‘whining’ about being beaten.

    Really? No, she isn’t considered weak for whining: she is actively engaged in resistance behavior that clearly prolongs the punishment. Did you miss that? Again: we have no clue what kind of behavioral problems the parents have had to deal with in the past. What those of us that aren’t blinkered clearly see, is her refusal to comply with their directions, so they can discipline her, prolonging the punishment and driving the parents crazy – while she is running a camera they do not know about, I add – and all of you ignore that. Everyone hones in on the guy telling her that he will beat her into submission and thinks that’s bad instead of wondering what drives not one person, but BOTH her parents, to that point.

    This assumes the choices are either to beat the child, or do nothing. That’s a fallacy.

    And you have the inside track and know these parents simply decided to up and beat her for no reason whatsoever Glad to see you are omniscient.

    I would guess the assholes of the world are disproportionately made up of those who’s parents took the lazy and easy way out and beat their children.

    Funny then how we have a lot more assholes these days, when actual punishment isn’t just frowned upon but stigmatizes the punishers and even makes them the criminals, huh CM?

    There shouldn’t be a ‘breaking point’ whereby they have no choice but to be violent. There is ALWAYS a choice.

    Yeah, sure. The kid can do whatever, including resisting punishment, but the parents immediately are the bad ones when they break. Wish we could hold the criminals the left so coddles, the lot of them never having been properly disciplined, to the same standards you want to hold these parents. Zero tolerance for crime would be an awesome thing.

    Don’t get me wrong, I know from personal experience how kids can get a parent so mad you just want to whack them. Been there many times. But I’ve been strong enough to exercise self-control and acted responsibly.

    Have you ever considered that this has more to do with the fact that these kids aren’t really down right bad than with your self control? Cause I bet you if I was your kid I would have pushed you over the edge. I did it all the time with anyone I wanted to.

    Carrot and stick techniques can work brilliantly, particularly when they involve the kid having to work the issue through and own the problem and consider their behaviour choices.

    Yeah, sure this can be the case in utopia. Did you miss the “Stick” part in your metaphor? What do you think that means, huh CM? What you are advocating for is just the “Carrot”. Reality shows us that we have far more assholes and people that have no respect for property or life these days than we did back when people disciplined kids. But hey, we don’t like that so let’s pretend otherwise.

    Frankly the day I have to bribe my kid to behave with this “Carrot & Stick” approach where all I have is the “Carrot” and using the stick makes me a bad guy, is the day I know I failed as a parent. My kid doesn’t misbehave precisely because I thought him way early there would be consequences fro disobeying his parents/autority instead of trying to be his friend and hoping that would induce kids from not rebelling and defying authority.

    BTW, this approach of your sure as hell sounds like the elft’s foreign policy towards the big tyrants. Tell me again, how well did the carrot work in Libya?

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  39. AlexInCT

    CM’s point is that anyone that resorts to corporal punishment of any kind is abusing the kid. he would much rather they use “Carrot & Stick”. My bet is he would even consider sending the kid to bed with no dinner corporal punishment.

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  40. Kimpost

    CM’s trying to discuss corporal punishment generally. I avoided that, mainly because I really wanted all of us to agree on how terrible this particular incident was. All of us did, except for Alex who chose to double down while offering us ridiculous hypotheticals about how the loving parents probably had tried everything that mankind had to offer before resorting to a minimal amount of loving violence.

    Having said that, how are we supposed to discuss corporal punishment generally, if some of us feel that it’s wrong regardless of circumstances? If I indeed think it’s wrong, as I do, am I not allowed to express that? And am I necessarily condescending, if I do so? This is a sensitive subject. It’s about family matters, and no one wants to be called a bad parent. But people need to understand that CM’s not suggesting that spankers necessarily are. Nor am I while writing this. We just feel that there are other – and in our opinions – better ways.

    Some countries have banned corporal punishment entirely – through legislation – but they are few, and more importantly for this blog and its participants, US and UK are not amongst those countries. This makes the topic even more sensitive. If we had this discussion on a Swedish blog, my guess is that my view would be shared by well over 90%, even amongst conservatives. Then again, corporal punishment was banned here in the 70’s.

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  41. AlexInCT

    So… 95% of every single “Internet generation” youth and probably almost everyone in this forum, and any given forum on the internet at any given time, who has downloaded a game or music on some sort of P2P program (I have assumed this is what is going on), deserves to be beaten and assaulted in this manner?

    Nice strawman dude. First off, it is not clear what she downloaded and if she stuck her parents with a charge. The assumtion that it was free stuff is not a good one, and should be immaterial, but if she is sticking the parents with a bill then it is a problem. Second, you have no idea if she has a history of disobedience of this kind. This isn’t about the download per se, but likely about the fact that she is disobedient, and then to the point it is driving the parents crazy. This might just be the incident that put them over the edge. Did you watch how she refused to do what she was told when they where trying to discipline her? That’s indicative of a patern.

    Even if she stole a credit card to buy, I don’t know, some Steam game download, she’s 16 years old, a teenager, not a kid. March her to the police station and press charges. She’s 16, in England I can legally sodomise her and it’s 100% kosher – she’s not a child.

    So you think the only option is to involve the authorities and really ruin theirs and her life, instead of actually parenting, and trying to deal with it? Maybe you are right that they should have just thrown her ass to the sharks, but having been there myself, I sure as hell am happy my parents didn’t do that to me.

    All this does is copious psychological damage and daddy issues which will probably translate into a classic slut getting back at Daddy.

    Quoting Howard Stern: “The world needs strippers and whores.”

    That was a joke, but hey, to me it is obvious she was going to get there all by herself.

    Great parenting!

    No, it is desperate parenting.

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  42. CM

    My bet is he would even consider sending the kid to bed with no dinner corporal punishment.

    Try actually reading what I’ve written. I know it’s probably difficult to break such a habit, but still……..

    CM, you are trying to ruffle it up by suggesting those who apply physical discipline are in the wrong or bad in some way?

    Why are you trying to claim a consensus? Even those saying what was shown on the video was bad, they’ve made it clear that it’s only by matter of degree. A little bit of hitting is apparently ok.

    To answer your question, I do think ‘physical discipline’ is poor parenting. But at the same time, and particularly as a parent, I can understand how unrelenting and unforgiving parenting can sometimes be. It’s the easy option, which is sometimes all someone has got the energy for. It’s also a cyclical thing…..people who were beaten are more likely to dish out beatings. And I woudl far rather parents be helped to be better parents than named and shamed or punished in any other way.

    As if you are morally better to his step-father or the majority of parents around the world who do exactly the same thing.

    I’m not claiming to be morally better.

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