Dr. Cain and the Women

At the risk of flooding the zone with three post in a short time, I did want to open a thread on the sexual harassment allegations against Herman Cain. The claim is that he paid two women in response to harassment claims. I’ve found his response very believable and straight-forward: he claims he was falsely accused but his trade group settled without his knowledge.

We’ll see how this shakes out. I’d say I don’t believe someone would go to press with this unless they had the evidence, but I remember Dan Rather’s memos.

Comments are closed.

  1. richtaylor365

    We’ll see how this shakes out.

    So far it hasn’t been shaking out very well for Herman at all, and that has been his biggest problem all along, he does not think well on his feet.

    From your link:

    After a few hours of confused response

    Many times he is confused. I heard one of his responses to this where he chalked it up to his sense of humor, wrongly interpreted.

    And this part:

    “If more allegations come, I assure you that people will simply make them up.”

    Ah, if these “more allegations” were made years ago, how could they be made up now?

    One complaint of sexual harassment, OK, could be she just took it wrong, but two complaints, that shows a pattern. And if anymore come up, holy smokes.

    Herman is great when he has a day to think about it, to craft a response, but thinking on his feet, coming up with something on the fly, he is dreadful and would get eaten alive debating Obama.

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  2. Poosh

    I assume, as is the common pattern, that these are largely baseless smears in reality, with little truth to them but chosen because they are sufficient to destroy Cain in the eyes of the public. I seriously doubt Cain can survive a media stitch-up job. Even if he’s innocent it doesn’t matter, I’m not following this currently, but I’d suggest it’s over for him, from the perspective of actually winning the presidency. The left have a very powerful mechanism, based on lies, for destroying threats.

    If Cain can’t think on his feet, he ain’t good enough for President. Take Obama taking ages to decide if they should actually take out Bin Laden, once they found him, much to the dismay of H. Clinton and some of his staff. Cain does not seem to have any awareness of a whole host of issues, which is problematic as Obama has a whole host of idealogical, prefixed, uncritical answers to a whole host of topics which he has been indoctrinated in, which create the illusion of intelligence and knowledge.

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  3. Xetrov

    but thinking on his feet, coming up with something on the fly, he is dreadful and would get eaten alive debating Obama

    They would both need teleprompters.

    I’ve got it – The first Teleprompter debate! Awesome.

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  4. CM

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  5. Miguelito

    Many groups and companies will simply settle such claims because it’s usually far cheaper then actually fighting it anyway. We can thank lawyers for that. Also because it usually then avoids bad press, whether the accusations are true or not. We can thank a complicit media for that.

    I find it ironic that Clinton was totally cool getting hummers and such in the Oval office because it was none of our business, but a couple of what look like baseless accusations from the past, that were investigated and determined to be baseless, makes Cain a horrible person.

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  6. CM

    Herman Cain told Fox News that he never sexually harassed anyone, although he was falsely accused of such at the National Restaurant Association. He then declared: “If the restaurant association did a settlement, I wasn’t even aware of it and I hope it wasn’t for much. If there was a settlement, it was handled by some of the other officers at the restaurant association.”

    For that to be true, many things would also have to be true:

    ●Herman Cain never asked the NRA how the claim got resolved;

    ●Cain never had to sign a settlement agreement or any other document;

    ●He trusted the NRA to obtain a complete release on his behalf, and the women never demanded that Cain release potential counterclaims (e.g., for defamation);

    ●He never agreed to keep the matter confidential — for example, after he left the NRA. (Arguably the association could bind him while he was still employed, but wouldn’t it have had to tell him to ensure compliance?); and

    ●In his role as CEO, Cain never had to approve a settlement, was never told the cost of the settlement and never saw a budget entry confirming a settlement.

    Is this possible? I guess so. Is it probable? Hardly. Take note that he denied knowing not just the amount of the settlement but the fact of the settlement. That’s remarkable. At the very least, it would show an astounding lack of curiosity.

    I have submitted a list of questions to the Cain campaign. I have received no response. But sooner or later Cain will have to answer all these and more, or his campaign will be crippled. He should get it done fast.

    UPDATE (1:34 p.m.): At the National Press Club, Cain says he recused himself as head of the organization from handling the sexual harassment claim and it was dealt with by the general counsel and human resources person. So he never asked what happened to the accusation? No one ever told him about confidentiality obligations? He never got confirmation that he would be absolved of any personal liability? I am having a hard time understanding how this happened..

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/is-cains-denial-plausible/2011/10/31/gIQAGr1ZZM_blog.html?wprss=right-turn

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  7. CM

    A settlement is evidence that the accusations were baseless? Or are you referring to something else?

    Clinton’s act(s) in the Oval Office were consensual, not harrassment. And the big issue was about him telling the truth about what happened.

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  8. Miguelito

    A settlement is evidence that the accusations were baseless? Or are you referring to something else?

    The settlement comment was purely about saving money (and possibly PR issues).

    The baseless part is based on the fact that (at least according to him) the association did do some investigation into the allegations and found them to be baseless. Whether that happened before or after the settlements, I don’t know. But there are times when companies (or people) will still settle due to it being cheaper and faster.

    Edit (oops, hit button too fast)…
    The Clinton stuff was consensual, I grant that. But there are plenty of people that love to continually use that “the man in power is still abusing those under him, even if they consented at the time” stuff. But with Clinton, it was still apparently ok. Never mind the accusations of harassment about him from before he was president.

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  9. CM

    I completely agree that the claims may have been false, and the fact that there was a settlement doesn’t necessarily say anything about the substance of them. However you’re satisfied they were baseless simply because the association said they were? You’re just happy to take their word for it?

    In Cain’s case, the allegations actually came five years before he ran for any office, 12 years ago now. There was no way they were politically motivated, because Cain had never been a candidate for anything. Furthermore, the allegations came not just from one disgruntled employee, but from two separate women. One allegation can be a misunderstanding, or an oversensitivity, or a case of job-related payback. Two allegations, separate and distinct from each other, are at least the beginning of a pattern.

    Again, it could have been a co-incidence that this happened twice.

    Two different women complained, formally, about Cain’s behavior, and they did so completely apart from any current battle. Both women were paid off in return for silence. That much is in the record. There is every reason for people to look into this further, and every reason for Cain to give a full accounting. People are falsely accused of all sorts of things, all the time. Cain merits the benefit of the doubt, for now, about these allegations — but only long enough for him to put legitimate doubts to rest. He has not yet done so. And if there is any truth to the allegations, he has no business running for president, because he would be putting at risk not just himself but an entire nation which might suffer dire consequences were he to get the nomination but then, due to this issue, lose a general election match-up with the Alinskyite, Mussolini-economics enthusiast in the White House.

    http://spectator.org/blog/2011/10/31/reason-to-take-cain-allegation

    Hardly the voice of the left, just using their “powerful mechanism, based on lies, for destroying threats”.

    The Clinton stuff was consensual, I grant that. But there are plenty of people that love to continually use that “the man in power is still abusing those under him, even if they consented at the time” stuff. But with Clinton, it was still apparently ok. Never mind the accusations of harassment about him from before he was president.

    Yep, all very true.

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  10. Poosh

    You know, if Cain was a Democrat and it was a rightist outlet that fired these claims off, the Republicans would be accused of racism and trying to play into “orientalism” etc and racial myths about black men.

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  11. CM

    But would you take the same line if it was Obama? Would news that the Harvard Law Review paid off (not once but twice) women in this way be obviously a “gutless smear” and an “media stitch-up job”?

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  12. richtaylor365

    I think the Politico piece was completely legit. This is someone who is running to be president so any and all skeletons in his closet is fair game. And so far I have found Cain, in his handling on the matter, has not looked good doing it.

    From your link:

    Politico has begun the media’s “high tech lynching” of Herman Cain.

    Oh God, when oh when can we finally retire this noxious term, never to be used again? This has nothing to do with race, it’s stupid when their side does it, it’s stupid when our side does it.

    At dawn, the online news magazine published an anonymously sourced, deny-this-if-you-can, attack piece on Herman Cain, alleging that he sexually harassed two women.

    That infers that they are making stuff up, they aren’t, no one is denying that “something” happened.

    Could it have been the said financial settlement?

    Hardly. 2 separate women with pretty high profile well paying jobs are going to make stuff up, risking those jobs (both ultimately quit) for the chance of a settlement? Jobs are so easy to come by that both would risk their employment on this? I don’t buy it.

    I also don’t buy the proposition put forth by Cain that he was kept in the dark over this whole sordid affair (times 2). He was head of the NRA, he might have recused himself from the decision making and delegated another body to decide what to do, but does it seem reasonable to you that he would not follow what was going on? He was involved, his good name.

    The two women not coming forward is consistent with their confidentiality agreements they signed, not nefarious going on with that.

    And for Cain to be caught so off guard over this, where for several days he obfuscated and deflected, not being able to answer the charges against him, until his team worked out a script for him to consult, this gives us a glimpse into his abilities to deal with crisis, something a president must know how to do.

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  13. CM

    Good on you Rich.

    It’s frankly unbelievable that anyone who even remotely signed up to the “Obama was given a free ride, all the shit was swept back under the carpet” narrative would try to dismiss or downplay this. That’s the very definition of hypocrisy. Poosh doesn’t seem to want to explain how it isn’t.

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  14. Poosh

    I am confused as to the lynching reference. What does that have to do with race? Lynching is exactly the word one might use in this context but anyway, whatever – it’s like when JD from Scrubs says “slaves” infront of his new black girlfriend and gets into a panic.

    It doesn’t matter if Cain is innocent. I would wager this’ll ruin him. Time to pack. Game over.

    If he did indeed do something, then better to know now then later. But whatever, mud like this always sticks if you’re on the right. After all *only* right wingers and conservatives are sexist: it fits nicely with the stereotype.

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  15. Poosh

    ffs.

    What I said:

    I assume, as is the common pattern, that these are largely baseless smears”

    “Even if he’s innocent it doesn’t matter, I’m not following this currently, but I’d suggest it’s over for him”

    I’ve taken in what Rich said, but i’m not interested in your stupid little comments, CM.

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  16. richtaylor365

    I am confused as to the lynching reference.

    There are several layers here, first it is inappropriate given the black history in this country, that is self explanatory. Clarence Thomas used that term “high tech lynching” 20 years ago during his confirmation hearings, given his ethnicity, his age, and his experiences being raised in the deep South, It was appropriate for him to use it, he had walked the walk and earned the right. This blogger that wrote your link threw that out there strictly because Cain is black, no other reason, and it did not sit well with me.

    The thing that bothers me about this whole incident is not the allegations so much (although what kind of an idiot lets this happen twice?) but its how he and his team has handled it, they were unprepared, they went into bunker mode for several days, finally coming up with a script to answer the charges. It was amateurish from start to finish.

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  17. CM

    Wow you’re in a bad mood today.

    You forgot:

    with little truth to them but chosen because they are sufficient to destroy Cain in the eyes of the public. I seriously doubt Cain can survive a media stitch-up job

    Pretty definitive stuff from someone not following it.

    On what basis do you say that accusations of sexual harrassment are usually just baseless smears? Or is that not what you meant?

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  18. CM

    Days to come up with an answer which doesn’t really make sense.

    Really, if you’re going to embark on any political campaign (let alone POTUS) surely your FIRST task is to sit down with your advisors and strategists and lay out all the skeletons and potential skeletons (that might be interpreted as skeletons once people find out) and determine the best way of explaining it all. The explanation must seem plausible and genuine and honest. And it must make sense. Easier said than done, but surely you’ve got to at least attempt to get that all sorted before it comes up.

    Amateur hour indeed.

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  19. Poosh

    I made an assumption and clearly stated I was doing it. I mean the usual round of smears set off against american conservatives. It’s a standard pattern, the liberal media-stitch up job. You, I assume, disagree, but that’s besides the point. My prime example is what they did to Sarah Palin in three days, just about every accusation set against her was baseless upon sitting down and researching it all, yet it all stuck. My claim is that the left in America have this tactic perfected and can pretty much destroy anyone they see fit.

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  20. CM

    I don’t buy that one side does it and the other one doesn’t On anything really. That just sounds like a purely partisan position.

    And anyway, if it’s true then it’s not a ‘smear’ (unless you have a very different definition than the average person) so your premise is flawed and the rest is then irrelevant because it’s not an example of your narrative.

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  21. CM

    Cain, like Palin, has tremendous shortcomings. You can’t just pretend that’s not the case and hide behind “they’re been destroyed unfairly by the left”. That’s just deceiving yourself.

    Oh well, now he can be portrayed, like Palin, as a victim of the liberal media and a be folk hero. And carve himself out a nice career in that role. Fox News etc. He’ll have all those fans who despise the whole victim mentality thing, only with special exceptions of course….;-)

    Looks like he’s remembering it now. Unfortunately he’s been filled in after the controversy broke, but is still talking like he’s remembering…..so now he’s recounting memories he didn’t seem to have that morning. Yikes. The really weird thing is that he doesn’t seem to think he NEEDS to get his story straight.

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  22. Poosh

    I just watched your Greta Sansomething or rather show, and saw the interview with Cain. She is superb btw, how journalists should be.

    Cain claimed he was only aware of one sexual harassment suit which he considered nonsense and was told the details once, the only notable claim he could remember was the height thing. The second case he had no knowledge about, he was not informed at all, if I understood him correctly. From his point of view there was only one case which was not worth noting.

    He claimed they decided to let things pass as it was based on anonymous sources etc. He felt he wanted to see what happened.

    It is amateurish because he is an amateur to political workings. He’s an experienced businessman who is clueless about anything outside that area. That may have a certain appeal but when a nuke goes off outside New York, you’re gonna want someone who has held executive office. It is baffling how you can allow non-governors etc to be eligible for president.

    The lynching thing, I guess, is a cultural difference I did not appreciate. In Britain it’s just a standard phrase, like “witch-hunt” etc.

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  23. CM

    The lynching thing, I guess, is a cultural difference I did not appreciate. In Britain it’s just a standard phrase, like “witch-hunt” etc.

    Wow, I am very surprised at that, given its great significance in US history. Similar to my surprise when you said you didn’t know what a ‘food stamp’ was.
    Not saying I don’t have gaps in my knowledge…..

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  24. CM

    Still quite a chasm between what Politico is reporting and what Cain is claiming….

    On the details of Cain’s allegedly inappropriate behavior with the two women, POLITICO has a half-dozen sources shedding light on different aspects of the complaints.

    The sources — including the recollections of close associates and other documentation — describe episodes that left the women upset and offended. These incidents include conversations allegedly filled with innuendo or personal questions of a sexually suggestive nature, taking place at hotels during conferences, at other officially sanctioned restaurant association events and at the association’s offices. There were also descriptions of physical gestures that were not overtly sexual but that made women who experienced or witnessed them uncomfortable and that they regarded as improper in a professional relationship.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67194.html

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  25. CM

    ….one source closely familiar with Cain’s tenure in Washington confirmed that the claims related to allegations of sexual harassment — behavior that disturbed members of the board who became aware of it, as well as the source, who otherwise liked Cain.

    “I happen to know there were sealed settlements reached in the plural. I think that anybody who thinks this was a one-time, one-person transgression would be mistaken,” this source said.

    The first woman was identified to POLITICO by a former association board member, and her identity was confirmed by two additional sources.

    The former board member recalled learning of the woman’s departure at a 1999 association board meeting and trade expo in Chicago.

    “She was offered a financial package to leave the association, and she did,” said the former board member. “What I took offense at was that it was clear that rather than deal with the issue, there was an effort to hush it up. She was offered a way out to keep quiet.”

    A second source with close ties to the restaurant association from that period said the woman revealed at the time that she had suffered what the source described as “an unwanted sexual advance” from Cain at a hotel where an event involving the group was taking place.

    A third source said the woman has indicated to her current employer that she received a compensation package from the association and has warned the employer that she might be the subject of an embarrassing story involving a presidential candidate.

    The second woman’s identity was confirmed by a source familiar with the association.

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  26. richtaylor365

    I just watched your Greta Sansomething or rather show

    Close enough, yeah, I like her too, but very rarely watch her show.

    Cain claimed he was only aware of one sexual harassment suit which he considered nonsense and was told the details once,

    That is his problem, his story keeps changing. Instead of getting out in front of something he had to know was coming, he put his head in the sand, hoping it would all go away.

    , the only notable claim he could remember was the height thing.

    The Poltico piece mentioned that as one of several allegation THIS woman made.

    It is amateurish because he is an amateur to political workings.

    I understand what you are saying but this is why I don’t give him a pass, any business person, anyone employed in any field know that sexual harassment is huge. This might be a cultural thing as well but here in the states everyone has to go through sensitivity training (maybe called something else in different areas) but it covers the do’s and don’t s with respect to women in the work place. Supervisors get even more training because a sexual harassment complaint not handled properly can lead to huge financial settlements. It is totally inconceivable to me that Cain would not be sensitive to this issue given his standing as a CEO and leader of the NRA. To have one (let alone two) complaints leveled against him given his standing, would have been akin to like a charge of corruption, it would have gotten his attention big time. So all this stuff about it slipping his mind, or that he let other underlings handle it and did not follow up on the outcome, I think that is all crap.

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  27. Mississippi Yankee

    Actually when stories about Larry Sinclair (and Larry Sinclair himself) first surfaced during Obama’s campaign the left did exactly that “nothing to see here!”

    Butt that doesn’t fit into your (royal your) narrative.

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  28. Mississippi Yankee

    To the best of my knowledge “these two women” STILL have not been named.

    C’mon rich, isn’t a man allowed to face his accusers? Of course you being a former LEO you’d know about that “law stuff” better’n me

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  29. Poosh

    No, as I understood him the “height thing” was the only thing that he noted as note-worthy, the rest was too stupid to remember. I would not expect him to remember every detail if it was all crap such as “he stared at me” or some such. From what I got, the height thing was what he remembered because it was the only thing he thought was even slightly grounds for sexual harassment – and yet still stupid.

    He says he has no knowledge of a second case against him, he was not informed. That, I assume, is something that is a matter of record and can be easily confirmed or denied. I don’t understand your “he let underlings” comment, from what seems to be the case he was obliged to let other parties investigate it. After the initial accusation it is all he could have done, surely? And simply receive updates, which he did, and he was told it was garbage.

    Whatever happens happens, but even that arsehole Marxist Bob Beckell, a shocking leftist fanatic who is allowed to speak freely on Fox News, said the entire case is very dangerous and smells of bs. But what will happen will happen. I’ll look it up again in a week or something maybe.

    I will say that this event happened over 20 years ago and, certainly in the UK, things were somewhat different. Sexism and sensitivity training etc was a gradual process. I can only assume the same happened in the USA. But “Sexual harassment” is not easily defined, and there is plenty of room for dubiousness. Staring at a woman for too long can be considered sexual harassment, for example, if she feels intimidated (and sometimes, I grant one, it is). But there are plenty of women who stare at yourself, if they are attracted to you, and do not object to being stared back at. Which is sexual harassment? Obviously if he groped her, that’s harassment. Knowing my luck it will be revealed that Cain is a serial sexual harasser, but so far it just seems really, really dubious to even the point when Marxist scumbags are shaking their heads and saying “this is bs”. I cannot accept that he should – or anyone – expected to remember minute details such as these, especially if they are actually lame accusations. Is staring at a woman’s breasts sexual harrasment? (perhaps, yes) but then women likewise stare at men’s groins as well, yet a man would never consider that sexual harassment. it’s very dangerous ground.

    Of course, if he’s lying, and I think this can be easily found out, then he’s just dug himself a massive hole to which every single person will disown him.

    Romney from what I can tell, is the only viable candidate to take on Obama all things considered.

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  30. Poosh

    He claimed in his interview the “height woman’s” name is unknown to him and he cannot remember it – her accusations were that absurd apparently. The second woman who was named to his campaign team he DOES remember once he was told who it was (he says NO accusations from her were brought to his attention). He says he had little contact with the “height woman” but with the named woman he socialised with her sometimes on friday nights and such, with other workmates.

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  31. Mississippi Yankee

    Both CM and rich (just slightly less) are absolutely orgasmic about Cain’s perceived down fall. It’s downright pornographic I tell ya! All the foldera over a black man sex life.

    BTW, where these women white… black… whores of a different color?? Bueller???

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  32. Poosh

    There is no reason for me to know what a food stamp is. Or a “food bank” in fact I still doubt there is such thing as a food bank. Is it a bank full of bread or something?

    And I did not think lynching would be so exclusively racial. But not living in USA it’s a mistake many are likely to make. In America it seems the word “Paki” just means Pakistani, but in the UK “paki” is a very racist word which horrifies people – for example.

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  33. Poosh

    Typical white men playing into racial stereotypes of the dark african rapist who seeks revenge on the white woman for the rape of Africa by the colonial powers of Europe, essentialising africans into super-sexual barabarians who need to be kept under the lash lest they spread their seed.

    ^actually educated in that shit, believe it or not. It really is a miracle I’m not a liberal.

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  34. richtaylor365

    Of course you being a former LEO you’d know about that “law stuff” better’n me

    Duh, we all knew that, you are quite the champion of the obvious, aren’t you?

    C’mon rich, isn’t a man allowed to face his accusers?

    There is nothing criminal here, you need to pay better attention.

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  35. richtaylor365

    All the foldera over a black man sex life.

    Sexual harassment equals a black man’s sex life, that is about the stupidest thing you’ve said in a while, but I got confidence that you can top it.

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  36. richtaylor365

    No, as I understood him the “height thing” was the only thing that he noted as note-worthy, the rest was too stupid to remember

    Or, that is only thing he wants to reveal.

    I don’t understand your “he let underlings” comment, from what seems to be the case he was obliged to let other parties investigate it.

    Of course, typically HR would handle these types of complaints, probably happened in this case, I only meant that Cain, being the boss, could not have investigated complaints against him. But you can bet, his statements lately to the contrary, that he kept tabs both on the investigation and the findings.

    But “Sexual harassment” is not easily defined, and there is plenty of room for dubiousness.

    Sure, that is why I’m not too wrapped up in the minutia of the actual events, he said/she said stuff is hard to prove. But where I think he dropped the ball is in not getting out front on this, not being forthright, and not having a ready reply to something he knew was going to surface.

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  37. Mississippi Yankee

    It’s not the allegations of sexual harassment it’s your (again the royal your) obsession with it. Even CM could see where his comments were heading, sadly not you.

    Anytime you’d rather disregard my comments just skip over rich. Wouldn’t want your hypocrisy to get bogged down.

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  38. Manwhore

    As I watch you step on your dick more and more I am not convinced that you get this “law stuff”. You may have put a costume on (like you do here, pretending to be “conservative”) but everything you espouse should have you the grand tent on OWS.

    Your zeal in ousting Cain was only rivaled by your zeal in fucking with the tea party. Or the general freedom of assembly. Or the general freedom from illegal search and seizure. Or anything really that doesn’t allow for tyranical supremacy from government.

    I would vote for anyone you don’t endorse.

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  39. Manwhore

    Ok, poosh. I really need some explanation on this. Is what you said facetious or do you really mean to say you wasted britain’s money studying the white man’s psyche toward the black man actually fucking a white girl, or otherwise known as life?

    Our bravest educational warrior has this degree? Be still my beating heart!

    If this isn’t an elaborate troll please say trick or treat.

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  40. Manwhore

    About the stupidest (dangerous) thing I could imagine hearing is “I’m officer 365 and I am here to help you.” I’d run the other way.

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  41. richtaylor365

    It’s not the allegations of sexual harassment it’s your (again the royal your) obsession with it.

    I have commented before that you need to pay better attention to the dialogue before you, you can read, can’t you? I have said at least 3 times in this post that the acts themselves aren’t important, it’s how he handled it in the aftermath.

    But that “black man’s sex life” thing tells me all I need to know about you, holy cow, you would fit right in in some Sharia state.

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  42. AlexInCT

    The thing is CM that Obama isn’t smeared. There is no need for that. The guy is a crook through & through and down right slimy in most things, a perpetual campaigner, and he provides plenty of real shit the LSM just ignores. Fuck, I bet if Obama raped some chick on TV the assholes would defend him just like they did Clinton and his shit. The whole double standard thing, you know…

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  43. Xetrov

    Or a “food bank” in fact I still doubt there is such thing as a food bank. Is it a bank full of bread or something?

    Food Bank

    A food bank or foodbank is a non-profit, charitable organization that distributes mostly donated food to a wide variety of agencies that in turn feed the hungry. The largest sources of food are for-profit growers, manufacturers, distributors and retailers who in the normal course of business have excess food that they cannot sell. After sorting and inventory, a food bank distributes the food to 100 to 1,000 non-profit community or government agencies, including but not limited to food pantries, soup kitchens, homeless shelters, orphanages, and schools.

    My company (a food distribution company) donates tons of food to food banks each year.

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  44. Seattle Outcast

    Did you see the recent article that marveled about how “scandal free” Obama was? I nearly choked – the guy is covered in scandals, but the MSM just ignores them (still).

    It’s going to be interesting to see how well they cover for him in ten years when the suppressed shit on that guy starts to get published.

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  45. Poosh

    Ah I see, it’s a charity. The “bank” part of food bank suggested some sort of official existence. I see we have similar things in the UK. Supermakets waste so much prefectly edible food every day, it’s a great idea.

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  46. AlexInCT

    Yes I did SO. And I laughed my ass off. Talk about having your head up your ass big-time, not having any shame, or straddling both of those. Our media is replete with fucking douchebags that think they are the bomb for backing this loser, and they will do their damnedest to bend reality to what they wish it would be. Fortunately reality has a harsh way of asserting itself on idiots.

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  47. CM

    I’m still rather stunned that anyone with a basic understanding and interest in politics could not have even heard or ‘food stamps’ or a ‘food bank’……..how does that happen??! [head explodes].

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  48. CM

    If that’s the extent of it, then there are a lot of people lying about specifics (innuendo and sexual advances, personal questions of a sexual nature, invitations to go up to his hotel room etc).

    The “times were different then” excuse doesn’t really work too well either, because times were also different in terms of women having to simply put up with it. These women complained. How many women who were harrassed didn’t complain (because “times were different”)?

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  49. CM

    Both CM and rich (just slightly less) are absolutely orgasmic about Cain’s perceived down fall.

    Close. I’m absolutely orgasmic at the rampant hypocrisy of those on the right who cry themselves to sleep at night at the injustice of Obame having been elected President because the media turned a blind eye to everything, but then try to dismiss or downplay even the fact that this has been reported.

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  50. Miguelito

    A few points.

    Yes, Cain (or his “campaign,” whatever) has handled this horribly. At this point, it seems like that’s exactly what was hoped for. Now the focus seems to be on just that: “He can’t handle this.” Or, “He’s just spinning.”

    I do think that our press should be digging into the past of anyone trying to become president and should expose issues (once they’ve been properly dug into, not tossing out every possible issue without getting full data first). But it needs to be done across the board and definitely across party lines. Most of the stuff that did come out about Obama likely wouldn’t have if not for talk radio, blogs on the internet, and yes, even Fox news.

    Complaining about how this is being done to Cain is not in and of itself Hypocrisy, it’s pointing out the hypocrisy of the media’s double standard in the fact that they didn’t really do anywhere near their due diligence with Obama (or Biden). Hell, not only did they not really look into his past but we had things like Matthews’ “a thrill runs up my leg,” bullshit. That’s how we ended up with someone who was pathetically inexperienced for the role, while the same press that gave (gives) him a pass was continually saying how Palin (who had executive experience) wasn’t experienced enough to be VP.

    Whatever happened to actual journalism rather then what looks like a bunch of partisan muckraking?

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  51. CM

    Well you seemed to think you answered it seriously. Although if it was a joke response that makes more sense.

    To be honest as many of you guys demonstrate again again how dishonest you are, my posts do become more and more silly on purpose.

    Anyway, you proved my point that if any old shit (including ludicrous fantasies from a nutjob) was fair game when it comes to Obama, then reporting on multple real complaints of sexual harrassment is certainly reasonable.

    Unless, of course, you have no intellectual honesty at all.

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  52. CM

    Most of the stuff that did come out about Obama likely wouldn’t have if not for talk radio, blogs on the internet, and yes, even Fox news.

    What stuff that “came out” about Obama that is the equivalent of this (multiple charges of sexual harrassment)?

    Complaining about how this is being done to Cain is not in and of itself Hypocrisy,

    Anyone who has (and/or still is) complaining about Obama issues not being reported/discussed can’t have any issues about this being reported. That’s a different issue to media hypocrisy.

    Whatever happened to actual journalism

    It’s almost a dead art. But journalism doesn’t have to involve treating everyone equally. A detailed investigation into a candidate can still be good journalism without a similar piece on all the other candidates sitting alongside it. Yes an individual piece should certainly be balanced, but in the context of what is being reported, not in the context of the wider subject. It’s ultimately up to editors etc to determine the balance of pieces/stories and prominence of each individual piece across their publication (whatever medium).

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  53. richtaylor365

    But journalism doesn’t have to involve treating everyone equally.

    Journalism does now what it always does, it follows the story. Guys like Anthony
    Weiner, John Edwards, Charlie Rangel (guys that had “D”‘s after their name) would all think it laughable that somehow the media gave them a pass.

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  54. Mississippi Yankee

    Pffffffffffffft, ok then! Thanks for emphasising my point better than I thought possible.

    Aaaand you choose to quote Politico…

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  55. Poosh

    Eh maybe because in Britain you get benefits directly and no stamps or, I assume they are some sort of voucher. Money is transfered directly into your bank account if you cannot feed yourself. The notion of a “food stamp” is alien.

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  56. Miguelito

    Journalism does now what it always does, it follows the story. Guys like Anthony
    Weiner, John Edwards, Charlie Rangel (guys that had “D”‘s after their name) would all think it laughable that somehow the media gave them a pass.

    Sure once something explodes it just can’t be ignored. However, in the case of the supposed “vetting” of candidates.. it’s night and day between how the parties are covered by the mainstream media outlets.

    Your own examples don’t really fit what’s mostly being talked about here:

    Weiner – Screwed himself and the internet is really what blew that up so that news couldn’t ignore it.

    Edwards – Essentially swept under the rug. It took the fucking National Enquirer to actually dig into that one and really get the data (and the Enquirer can be scummy as hell), and it still didn’t really blow up until after he wasn’t a lead candidate anymore. It seems the real issue with him is the fact that, apparently, the affair led to actual campaign finance laws being broken too, which is probably why it’s even a big deal.

    Rangel – Still in office, essentially got a slap on the wrist, when he should’ve been kicked out of office (granted that’s not the press but his constituents continuing to vote for a criminal and the good ole’ boy network protecting him since many of them are likely playing loose with the rules themselves).

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  57. CM

    LOL, are you disputing that he’s a known douchebag/liar/criminal?

    Honestly dude, could you have possible picked a worse example (or a better one to prove my point)?

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  58. CM

    You continually post as if you have a good understanding of US politics and culture and the relevant historical context. I’ve never lived in a country with food stamps, or lynching, but I’ve read and discussed both many many times over the years. Having no idea of the significance of lynching to black America is much more surprising than the food stamps one.
    Again, I’m just surprised. Perhaps there are some basic things that I’ve yet to encounter. It’s almost inconceivable to me that there are though.

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  59. richtaylor365

    Sure once something explodes it just can’t be ignored.

    Some would consider two separate allegations of sexual harassment leveled against THE leading candidate for the GOP presidential race as “exploding”, thus unable to be ignored.

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  60. Poosh

    My only reference to lynching in this context, I believe, is one of the “Candyman” movies. I would not have understood the significance of it htough. From my point of view lynching is lynching. Lynchmob is a phrase used all the time. Food stamps are an alien concept.

    I don’t know what you’re asking really. I don’t know much at all about the american civil war and that’s a major part of American history. But I wouldn’t expect Americans to know much about the English civil war either. I can’t name all the American Indian tribes either.

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  61. CM

    I’m not really asking anything, just expressing quite a large amount of surprise. The lynching of American blacks (and the KKK) is such a significant part of the MODERN history of the US. Really any discussion about civil rights or racism in the US, even today, involves a context in which lynching pays a large part.

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  62. CM

    http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/lynching-of-young-blacks/

    It really does show how far relations between the races has progressed in a relatively short space of time.

    American culture (film, music) is littered with references to lynching (which is probably the biggest reason I’m surprised)

    “”Southern trees bear a strange fruit,

    Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,

    Black body swinging in the Southern breeze,

    Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.

    Pastoral scene of the gallant South,

    The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth,

    Scent of magnolia sweet and fresh,

    And the sudden smell of burning flesh!

    Here is a fruit for the crows to pluck,

    For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck,

    For the sun to rot, for a tree to drop,

    Here is a strange and bitter crop.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Fruit

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  63. Mississippi Yankee

    All the witnesses are recanting what they told Politico?

    No they seem to have slithered back into the shadows.

    For a dude who routinely demands links, published facts and so forth you still find it awfully easy to condemn a man you know very little about.

    Oh and when stories about Cain and these, at present, fictitious women crop up there are references to NRA. For the record this is National Restaurant Association not National Rifle Association.

    Just tring to keep you honest…

    Oh and one more thing, Larry Sinclair gave his name when he claimed to have a homosexual relation with Obama. Still waiting for the names of the current shit stirrers, just sayin’

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  64. CM

    No they seem to have slithered back into the shadows.

    When did they come out of the shadows. They’ve always just been un-named Politico sources haven’t they?

    For a dude who routinely demands links, published facts and so forth you still find it awfully easy to condemn a man you know very little about.

    Where have I condemned him? Aside from my link and comment about his belief that even women who are raped should be forced to give birth, and how badly he’s handled it (both of which are pretty much inarguable) I’ve just been commenting on the hypocrisy of those getting bent out of shape about the story even being reported. I even explictly acknowledged:

    I completely agree that the claims may have been false, and the fact that there was a settlement doesn’t necessarily say anything about the substance of them.

    And I agreed about Clinton.

    You must have me confused with someone else.

    Oh and when stories about Cain and these, at present, fictitious women crop up there are references to NRA. For the record this is National Restaurant Association not National Rifle Association.

    Just tring to keep you honest…

    Thanks. I managed to figure that out early on, when I happened to stumble across the term “National Restaurant Association” within the first paragraph of the first story I read.

    BTW if your joke was somehow that I would have a problem with the National Rifle Association, that’s just more evidence that you’ve got me confused within someone else. I’ve never said anything negative about that NRA. I don’t have much an opinion on that organisation either way (as far as I can tell they do a hell of a lot of training so that people store and use guns responsibly), and I’m not anti-gun. Good on you for tring though.

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  65. Mississippi Yankee

    Andy Borowitz is one of the ‘few and far between’ liberals with a sense of humor. Anna Marie Cox was another.

    All the rest Pfsssssst!

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  66. Mississippi Yankee

    You

    All the witnesses are recanting what they told Politico?

    (please note your question mark)

    Me

    No they seem to have slithered back into the shadows.

    You

    When did they come out of the shadows. They’ve always just been un-named Politico sources haven’t they?

    Forked tongued, double dealing cunt (I love that word in this context). I’m through with you today.

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  67. richtaylor365

    Yes, I like Bill Whittle, I like all those guys as PJTV and subscribe, and even on this issue they are all about 90% right, so let’s talk about that 10% where they got it wrong:

    They said this is not news, I think it is. Politico revealed that back in the late 90’s 2 separate women, both employees of the NRA filed formal complaints against Cain, now the leading GOP contender for the presidential nomination, for sexual harassment. The article also revealed that the board (that body tasked with making a fact finding determination of the charges) were not only “disturbed” by the allegations but felt it was in Cain’s and the NRA’s best interest to settle the charges through monetary remuneration. The hosts go through contortions reminding the audience that these are anonymous sources, they have to be because of the confidentiality agreements that ALL party’s signed, did you read my latest Cain post? An attorney representing one of the women wants the NRA to relieve his client of the terms so she can sing like a bird, she won’t be anonymous for long.

    Whittle said this was a ,”made up bull story with which there is no evidence”, again partly true. We have no evidence that sexual harassment did in fact take place, granted, but we all know for a fact that 2 separate women did file sexual harassment charges against Cain, even Whittle is not disputing that. So when they say ,”there is nothing there”, wrong, there is “something” there, the 2 separate complaints filed against Cain for sexual harassment.

    They got a couple other things wrong. They made this out as a concerted effort by the media to wait until one candidate claws to the top, then the media goes after and hurts the candidate and they used Perry as an example, how the media went after him. But Perry has nobody to blame but himself and his god awful performances in those debates, the media did nothing to hurt Perry, he hurt himself.

    All that other stuff about the media covering for Obama and how they will never be a friend of a Republican, all true, but this is not like the McCain/lobbyist affair, that was a smear job with nothing there, this story has some foundation to it. Nobody, even Cain, is disputing the evidence of the two sexual harassment complaint and settlements, they exist.

    And I will remind you again (although you will probably forget like all those other times) that to me, the actual events are not that important. Both women could have totally manufactured the perceived insult when Cain did absolutely nothing wrong. Also possible that the board was not all that convinced that something dreadful happened and thought it best to just make the problem go away with a small settlement, so in that regard, what did actually happen is really unknown and reasonable people don’t condemn others if they don’t know what happened. But what I do know happened because I saw it with my own eyes is how Cain handled the charges after the fact. He had a full 10 days to get his story straight to work up a script to answer the charges while keeping him in the best possible light, but when they finally did hit, he was like a deer in the headlights. He and his campaign went into bunker mode for over a day crafting a response that should have been already prepared and rehearsed.

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  68. CM

    My first question was in response to you saying:

    And the allegers may betrying to back away from it the very next day when absolutely no facts surface.

    I was wondering whether you meant Politico, or their sources. It made more sense for you to mean their sources, but I assumed (as a result of my perfectly normal question) you’d clarify (or at least confirm I was wrong). But your subsequent answer didn’t dispute my assumption that you were talking about the sources (“they”?), so I asked another question in order to further find out what you meant.

    Nothing double-dealing, nothing rude or obnoxious about any of it.

    But you’ve concluded I’m a cunt.

    Which makes you a weirdo.

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  69. Mississippi Yankee

    I have commented before that you need to pay better attention to the dialogue before you

    Isn’t this trick in Saul Allinsky’s book?

    Lame and stale

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  70. Mississippi Yankee

    Ah yes, keep repeating the lie over and over. How’s that working out for you? Not well it seems as the only one remotely agreeing with your negative obsession with Cain is CM and he here only to taunt anyone on the right.

    Strange bedfellows indeed… or not

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