The RTFTLC Agreement Post

So I was wondering: Is there anything that we – right, left, center or other – all actually agree on? Can we find the one statement that every regular around these parts agrees with?

Example: “George Lucas is a cockhole. He used to be creative and awesome, and now he’s just a grumpy old douchenozzle.”

or…

“Barring a dairy allergy, butter is one of the most amazing creations in all of human foodstuff history. See also bacon.”

or…

“Michael Moore is an asshole.”

Come on. There have to be things on which we universally agree, right? Kate Beckinsale’s ass in pleather pants is one of the great wonders of the modern age? The Who need to stop touring? Barack Obama is, at best, disappointing to all sides?

Bring it.

Comments are closed.

  1. Seattle Outcast

    Nobody wants to listen to a bunch of punk-ass kids on X-Box Live

    Your dog wants steak

    Music was better when I was a kid

    Sarah Jessica Parker is just fucking ugly

    Lies, damned lies, and politicians

    There really is no excuse for what people wore in the ’70s and ’80s

    Women generally can’t be trusted

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  2. sahrab

    Sitting next to Kate Bechinsdale while she eats from my tub of popcorn smothered in bacon salt and butter, waiting for her to find out the Popcorn Trick, while watching a movie about Michael Moore being devoured by the sarlac.

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  3. Manwhore

    I think we all can agree that (using this site as a sample of the “center” political spectrum) that our opinions are diverse and not completely represented by either of the two prominent parties (perhaps even the tea party in total). I think we can all agree that the tone of the blog that Lee created never entirely favored the left or the right, but more reflected a fluid review of current events.

    I think we all can agree that no one person who visits here seems to be satisfied (or confident) in the past two administrations efforts at keeping our country strong and free. I think we all can on some small level agree that there is a sense of fear the the country is, and has been headed in the wrong direction for some time now.

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  4. Miguelito

    Nobody wants to listen to a bunch of punk-ass kids on X-Box Live

    No shit. I love multiplayer with friends, but trying on live… I gave up years ago. Got tired of the <10y/o mentality.

    The last time I played something on live was actually World Poker Tour, and was hilarious when the host kept timing out and I noticed the little speaker indicator on screen was sorta pulsing in a pattern. Cranked up volume.. it was the guy snoring.

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  5. AlexInCT

    Personally I believe we all would agree that if we all agreed on everything life would be boring or we would be robots. Maybe I am insane for liking disagreements?

    There really is no excuse for what people wore in the ’70s and ’80s

    Why stop there? You remember some of those hairdos? The hairy chick movement? Stinking hippies?

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  6. West Virginia Rebel

    When it’s on target, South Park can still be funny as hell.

    The original Star Trek series is still the best.

    Bacon is the food of the gods.

    Looney Tunes cartoons are way better than any of today’s.

    The Beatles will still be listened to a thousand years from now.

    Madonna still can’t act.

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  7. hist_ed

    Sarah Jessica Parker is just fucking ugly

    Nope- a little different thyan your standard holloywood type, but not ugly.

    “George Lucas is a cockhole. He used to be creative and awesome, and now he’s just a grumpy old douchenozzle.”

    I just can’t agree with the “creative and awesome” part. I read something, somewhere, that said when Lucas was making Star Wars he was basically a nobody, so he had to listen to a lot of people critique his ideas and come up with alternatives (partly because his ego wasn’t as large as a planet and partly because the money people were paying attention). When he made Empire, he had one big hit on his hands, so he was careful and so he had to listen to a lot of people critique his ideas and come up with alternatives (partly because his ego wasn’t as large as a planet and partly because the money people were paying attention). After that, he basically said “Fuck it, I’m George Fucking Lucas. We’ll do the movies my way.” And everything was shit after that. And now he goes back and fucks around with the the first movies and ruins them, too.

    No one, who was ever fully creative and awesome, could have written the dialogue of the last three movies (barring significant brain damage).

    So Lucas had a creative and awesome idea, which was tempered by a shitload of others, until the idea succeeded, which made Lucas so powerful that he could ruin the idea as much as he wanted and still make shitloads.

    The Who need to stop touring?

    Gotta have one more tour at least. I owe my wife tickets from when they toured in the early 1990s.

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  8. hist_ed

    How about: Despite our almost universal impulse against censorship and allowed the shit to fly around here, this site is better off without Murgey the pooh flinging chimp.

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  9. West Virginia Rebel

    I think we can also agree that Spielberg, as opposed to Lucas, is an actual genius when it comes to filmmaking.

    CM Punk is the best thing to happen to the WWE lately.

    Hulk Hogan is way past his prime and needs to quit before he kills himself.

    Corporate-brewed American beer mostly sucks.

    Bane is missed.

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  10. Section8

    By whom? I guess it all depends where you’re standing. Good news is most of the left are going to use the same old tired arguments come next election, extreme, fringe, violent, racist. Little do they know the American populace has had enough. Actually they had enough last election, or even when Scott Brown got voted in, but the left don’t get it. Name calling is all they know when it comes to arguing their point. As far as what Europe or the rest of the world considers fringe or not, who cares, I’m not out to make Europe a better place, it’s this country I worry about. I definitely know more Americans are heading in that direction of though.

    That may be the case there (I dunno) but here most of you would definitely be considered out there on the fringes.

    Do you seriously believe this though? I mean after that bombing in Norway you thought fringe sites should be monitored if I remember correctly, but back then it was just the fringe ones, and in no way wouldn’t be just anyone right of center. Or were you just lying and really anyone right of center is the “fringe”

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  11. Section8

    The amusing thing about CM’s comment is that the rating of said comment goes towards proving his point ;)

    And if they gave thumbs up how would that go toward not proving it? I’d read that as everyone agrees with what he said, and if he got neither thumbs up nor thumbs down then that would mean no one questions it. So really we can just say by him posting it it must be true otherwise why would he?

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  12. CM

    Oh please. There is no way anyone can seriously suggest there is a diversity of opinion here. That’s like suggesting that you’d find a diversity of faith at a Mosque. Sure there can be strong and intense little debates, but in reality they’ll be extremely constrained and in no way reflective of how the same discussion would go in the outside world.
    Libs won’t come here because it’s effectively a closed shop. That’s fine if that’s what you want – why would you want them here anyway, they’re all retards….(rinse and repeat).

    In saying that (and rather ironically) I would say the rest of Manwhore’s comments probably DO reflect your society in general. Many on the right weren’t fans of Bush. Many on the left are disappointed in, and aren’t fans of, Obama. At least from where I’m sitting and observing anyway.

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  13. CM

    By whom?

    By middle NZ standards most of you would be considered pretty weird. Not saying that in a negative way. You’d represent such a minority opinion that you’d be considered fringe. Like 2-3% of the vote on election day.

    I guess it all depends where you’re standing.

    Totally.

    As far as what Europe or the rest of the world considers fringe or not, who cares,

    I probably took Manwhore’s comment out of context slightly as he probably just mean the political spectrum in the US (although even then he’s still clearly very very wrong).

    Do you seriously believe this though?

    I don’t think it’s even arguable. Very very few people here in NZ are as ideological as to say the things you’ve just posted (“Name calling is all they know when it comes to arguing their point” etc). People would think you were a bit mad to say stuff like that. You’re all so very ideologically driven. Not that many people here are like that. We don’t have these intense arguments (which get deeply personal) about the left or the right being a bunch of lying arseholes.

    I’m not suggesting this is a ‘fringe site’ or that you guys are on the fringe in terms of advocating violence or worse. Just that your deeply held philosophical/political stances would be considered a bit strange. Although perhaps the internet effect (and desire to argue) exaggerates this.

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  14. Section8

    Well it is right thinking. I’d expect it to be that way. Just like if I turn on the NFL channel I expect football or football related material, not dancing, tennis or auto racing. So yes, the dominant ideology is going to be right leaning. Unlike other sites, however, getting banned here is rare and isn’t due to political views, a lot of sites will just kick you out if you don’t fall in line, or hide your posts, etc.

    We did have many more liberals here up until the last election. They left when the Bush bashing here stopped (as he was no longer in office) and it went to Obama bashing as Obama and the Democrats had a powerful majority over everything, hence responsibility, and hence the focus. I suppose they thought it was just going to switch over to 24/7 of what meanies Rush and Glenn Beck are, but that didn’t happen as most here are smart enough to know TV and radio personalities can’t pass laws and policy so they left. Their choice.

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  15. Section8

    I don’t think it’s even arguable. Very very few people here in NZ are as ideological as to say the things you’ve just posted (“Name calling is all they know when it comes to arguing their point” etc). People would think you were a bit mad to say stuff like that. You’re all so very ideologically driven. Not that many people here are like that. We don’t have these intense arguments (which get deeply personal) about the left or the right being a bunch of lying arseholes.

    I’m not suggesting this is a ‘fringe site’ or that you guys are on the fringe in terms of advocating violence or worse. Just that your deeply held philosophical/political stances would be considered a bit strange. Although perhaps the internet effect (and desire to argue) exaggerates this.

    You’re killing me. So my comment about the left is a personal shot, which you don’t care for and most in NZ would not care for, am I right so far?

    So then you follow up with

    People would think you were a bit mad to say stuff like that.

    Just that your deeply held philosophical/political stances would be considered a bit strange

    So trying to say in a nice way I/we are nuts, strange, etc isn’t name calling at all right?

    Too funny. Anyhow gotta go for the night take care.

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  16. Manwhore

    I wasn’t trolling with the comment, and if your reading comprehension were up to Commonwealth standards, you would inherently know that I was speaking for MY country. Not yours, or reflecting world view. That’s an entirely different topic.

    For the record, I frequent many right wing blogs focused on the states, and do consider this one to be quite contrary to those opinions much of the time.

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  17. richtaylor365

    Although perhaps the internet effect (and desire to argue) exaggerates this.

    Partially true, but I think you know the rest.

    You’re all so very ideologically driven.

    That sounds just like the flip side of

    why would you want them here anyway, they’re all retards….(rinse and repeat).

    When I go to the club in the morning to play tennis and check in at the front desk, the receptionist could say ,”You are so tennis driven”, this hour yes I am, that is why I’m here, but check back with me in a few hours and I will be doing something else. It is the same here, folks don’t come here looking for recipes, travel tips or folk dancing lessons, they want to hash around whatever is going on in the world of politics, but then they will be off doing other things.

    That is one of the reasons I try to write about other shit, sometimes politics can be tedious and it is a nice repose to deviate from time to time.

    And I would suspect that those in your country are just as ideological (passionate) about what they believe as anywhere else.

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  18. CM

    He said, posting a contrary opinion.

    Missed the point I think Rann.

    it use to be fare more diverse, we has fundis hard core Socialists, and everything in between.

    Cool. That would have been fun. MW forums was like that too.

    Well it is right thinking. I’d expect it to be that way.

    Exactly. Which is why it’s very weird to read someone trying to claim that this site could be used “as a sample of the “center” political spectrum”.

    I wasn’t trolling with the comment, and if your reading comprehension were up to Commonwealth standards, you would inherently know that I was speaking for MY country. Not yours, or reflecting world view. That’s an entirely different topic.

    Yeah, I know. Which is why I made a specific point of commenting on it.
    Although I would still strongly disagree that this site reflects the centre of US political opinion. How can that even be remotely true?!

    For the record, I frequent many right wing blogs focused on the states, and do consider this one to be quite contrary to those opinions much of the time.

    Still a very narrow band of opinion though isn’t it. It might reflect the diversity opinion on a certain part of the right wing (or perhaps even the right wing in total), but that’s only one part of the equation.

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  19. Rann

    Exactly. Which is why it’s very weird to read someone trying to claim that this site could be used “as a sample of the “center” political spectrum”.

    Both can be correct, as you demonstrated by pointing out that in New Zealand, we’d all be considered evil righty redneck freak extremists.

    While certain members of the blog definitely trend further right, there’s a fair number of regulars that are spread out across a spectrum of libertarianism, which is pretty much centrism defined as it combines aspects of both right and left. In fact, I’d argue that Hal is probably a leftist… and I’m not saying that as a “He’s a traitor to the rest of us!” way, but rather that many of his opinions fall pretty regularly on what is obviously the left side. But because, believe it or not, the left is far less tolerant of a “traitor” than the right could ever be, and because he actually diversifies his opinions with positions that are considered on the right, he’s lumped in here with the rest of us far-right loonies.

    You’re on the left, CM. I know that may seem hard to believe, but you are. Yes, I’m aware that you consider yourself quite centrist. Amongst people who are even further to the left than you, of which there is no shortage, I’m sure that you certainly feel that way. But just because we’re to the right of you doesn’t mean you’re in the center and we’re all so far into right field we don’t have to walk far to get to the parking lot after the game, it just means that center field looks a lot like right field from the middle of left field.

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  20. richtaylor365

    Somehow the idea that New Zealanders in general were so much more genteel, refined, above the fray sorta speak, and so unplebian compared to Americans wrt their political passions I spent about 5 minutes looking for a NZ blog that delves in politics. I found this article on kiwiblog, talking about “eco nazis”, damn good reading, and rather revealing in that you guys tend to mix it up and opine, with the requisite insults and name calling, just like us, who’d a thought? Maybe we aren’t so different after all.

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  21. CM

    So trying to say in a nice way I/we are nuts, strange, etc isn’t name calling at all right?

    I’m just trying to explain how it’s different. Personal shots are fine, but when they’re based solely on a political or philosophical opinion, well that’s not something you get too much of here. Personal shots here are usually the result of something…..personal.
    People here certainly think I’m mad for engaging in all this……

    they want to hash around whatever is going on in the world of politics, but then they will be off doing other things

    I’m not talking about the fact that people come here to discuss politics or whatever, I’m talking about the intensity of the views expressed, the views themselves (sometimes), and how deeply personal it all seems to be.
    You’d be struggling to find many around here with such opinions (and who have such opinions about those who think differently).

    And I would suspect that those in your country are just as ideological (passionate) about what they believe as anywhere else.

    With respect to strict left/right political ideology in the general population, no way. In terms of how one considers those who think differently, no way.

    Which is why this is all a lot more fun……

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  22. CM

    Ha, I was going to say about the only place you’ll find people with fringe views and aching to throw around personal insults here is on kiwiblog (and perhaps a talk radio station).
    Kiwiblog is in no way indicative of political discourse (as in quality) nor does it reflect the centre of the political spectrum. They’re mostly just a small bunch of fucking morons.
    Would you say this forum reflects the ‘centre’ in the US?

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  23. hist_ed

    Ok now we have to get into definitions. Right and left. Unfortunately the media, political parties and just general laziness have made so many people think that “right wing” always equals “Republican” and “left wing” always equals “Democrats”. This is not true.

    What seems to have screwed this up the most is throwing morality into politics. Foreign policy stuff also tends to mess with it. Here goes:

    More government=left wing
    Less government=right wing

    True libertarians are about as right wing as you can get. Anarchists are even more right wing (those that call for no government-most of the window smashers one sees on TV are stupid enough to call themselves anarchists when they are protesting for more handouts from the government).

    So despite the fact that it is usually stinkin’ hippies and socialists that call for drug legalization, legalizing drugs would be a right wing thing to do. On the other side, its is usually Republicans that are in favor of anti-sodomy laws and such. Despite their support, anti-sodomy laws are left wing in that they restrict freedom and increase government.

    So, no, libertarianism doesn’t “combine. . . aspects of both right and left”. It is right wing. Republicans and Democrats, they “combine. . . aspects of both right and left”.

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  24. CM

    Both can be correct, as you demonstrated by pointing out that in New Zealand, we’d all be considered evil righty redneck freak extremists.

    But my point is that if this place can’t be both a site for right-wing people AND a good sample of centrist opinion.

    there’s a fair number of regulars that are spread out across a spectrum of libertarianism, which is pretty much centrism defined as it combines aspects of both right and left

    I don’t agree. Libertarianism is the political philosophy that holds individual liberty as the organizing principle of society. Libertarianism includes beliefs all advocating minimization of the state and sharing the goal of maximizing individual liberty and political freedom.

    A liberatarism is going to find themselves siding with the right 9 times out of 10. And mostly with those at the end extreme end, who think ‘govt are the problem’. Individual rights come before anything else, etc etc.

    But because, believe it or not, the left is far less tolerant of a “traitor” than the right could ever be

    Is this guy a traitor?

    because he actually diversifies his opinions with positions that are considered on the right, he’s lumped in here with the rest of us far-right loonies.

    Who says?
    To me Hal comes across as someone who doesn’t determine his opinion on something based on an existing strong ideological or political belief . Instead he seems to assess and judge whatever it is largely on the evidence. I imagine his actual political/philisophical belief system is quite complex and wouldn’t adhere at all to one particularly ideology or another. it’s not easily defined. Contrast that to Alex, who does everything he can think of to make anything he stumbles across fit into his seemingly blind strict concrete ideology.

    You’re on the left, CM. I know that may seem hard to believe….

    In NZ I’m centrist (I think the current centre-right govt is doing a pretty good job and I agree with much of the policy they’ve rolled out, even after listening to the arguments put up by the opposition centre-left). But being centrist here certainly means you see me on the left.

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  25. AlexInCT

    Ok now we have to get into definitions. Right and left. Unfortunately the media, political parties and just general laziness have made so many people think that “right wing” always equals “Republican” and “left wing” always equals “Democrats”. This is not true.

    THIS^^^^^

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  26. richtaylor365

    Would you say this forum reflects the ‘centre’ in the US?

    In some of the posts, yes. Hal certainly writes posts reflective of the center, I try to write stuff that although reflects my right leanings exposes the hyperbole and blanket wide net fallacies that:
    1)Everything government does is either evil or overreaching
    2)All unions are bad and everything they do is either illegal or un American
    3) All liberals are either too stupid to live or are villainous and use treachery to undermine the American institutions of exceptionalism and self reliance.

    Limited government folks like myself understands that the absence of government is anarchy, which is nothing to strive for. Given that we are a nation of laws, we can and should respect those placed in authority over us while still keeping an eye on them for signs of abusing that authority.

    Now if you are asking if most commenters here fall into the center ideologically, to that I would say NO, even the libertarians would fall to the right of the center but not to the degree (9 out of 10 times) that you think. Ron Paul, the only true Libertarian in the mix, would be a good example. He gets in to trouble with the right (his isolationism, drug policies, spotlighting the collusion between big donors and politicians, and getting government out of every facet of human existence) as he does with the left. But if he had to choose, and he did, he would rather be a Republican, but don’t read too much in to that either.

    Kiwiblog is in no way indicative of political discourse (as in quality) nor does it reflect the centre of the political spectrum. They’re mostly just a small bunch of fucking morons.

    I did not use it as an example of “center” discourse in your country, only to refute the notion (which you are apparently still sticking with) that you guys over there are not ideologically driven and manage your discussions more gentlemanly, more dispassionately and much more civilized then us mopes over here. You can call those guys “fucking morons” but in looking at some other NZ blogs to see if it was in fact an anomaly, I’ve come to the conclusion that people are people, some are respectful and dispassionate, others are not, we all come in different flavors, every where.

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  27. Jim

    I believe it was touched upon above, but there is a difference between being an ideological centrist, and a centrist based upon public opinion. America as a whole definitely sits on the right hand side (conservative) of the ideological center. However, because of this, there is a weighted average that shifts the center. As a result, much of what happens on this site can be considered centrist if you use the weighted average. Looking from the outside in, that location seems to be off center. But looking from the inside, it sits very near the “fulcrum” of the (weighted) spectrum. So when speaking about “moderates” or “centrists” it is important to specify upon which scale you are basing it.

    Oh, and my comment above about CM’s rating was also in reference to the fact that nearly *everything* he posts gets rated negative, whether it be pure opinion or fact driven opinion, or mostly fact. That speaks towards how the majority of people (who bother to rate) view his fact/opinion coming from what they see as a leftist argument. Or something. It made sense at the time, and I think CM got the joke, it was mostly tongue in cheek.

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  28. CM

    Apparently there’s such a thing as a douchefaucet too, although you need to be from upstate NY…..

    But looking from the inside, it sits very near the “fulcrum” of the (weighted) spectrum.

    But if as many people in America vote Democrat as vote Republican, and yet nobody here votes Democrat, then how can that be the case?

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  29. CM

    In some of the posts, yes.

    Cherry-picking isn’t what this is about though. Taking an air temperature at 3am doesn’t give you an accurate reflection of the average temperature over a day. The question was – does this forum reflect the ‘centre’ in the US? Again, it seems a little absurd that anyone would say ‘yes’.

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  30. Jim

    People do not always vote their actual ideology. You wouldn’t believe (maybe you would, I dunno) how many people I personally know who have *no idea* that most Democrats do *not* represent their beliefs *at all*. Based on what you know of American politics and stereotypes, you tell me who my co-worker should vote for based on this description: hunter, gun-lover, anti-black, anti-gay, anti-welfare, wants government out of his life completely.
    This man would vote Democrat, and why? Because his dad always said to vote Democrat (his dad was Union and could be described by all of the above.)
    That’s just one example. Democrats promise money to unions, and that (until recently) garnered nearly all the union votes, regardless of ideology. Sometimes people are single issue voters (works both ways) but there are a few people I know who *would* be straight ticket republicans based on their beliefs with one exception: gay rights.
    In nearly every poll taken, America leans right of center. Yet, somehow, the Democrats held the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives until the last election. Sometimes who people vote for just does not accurately represent their ideologies. I think a number of people here vote independent, or they would if the candidate weren’t useless half the time. It may also be possible that some people here do vote Democrat, just not straight ticket and only for moderate Dems. Without taking a full sampling of every election people here have voted in, there’s no way to know.

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  31. CM

    Jim I hear what you say and I can’t disgree with it, but it still doesn’t change the fact that this place doesn’t represent the ‘centre’ of poltical though, either in the US or the world. It represents some parts of the right. As far as I can tell, the only current regular contributors not on the right are Kimpost and me, and we’re both a long long way away from the US. We’re huge outliers, in every sense.

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  32. Miguelito

    So despite the fact that it is usually stinkin’ hippies and socialists that call for drug legalization, legalizing drugs would be a right wing thing to do.

    Yeah, but you’ll find what they’re really looking for is the right to do whatever they want, but still have society actually deal with the consequences. That’s where the real divide is on things like drug legalization if you ask me. I think most of us think you should be able to do whatever you want to you body, but you should then have to deal with those consequences yourself, not have society take care of you.

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  33. sahrab

    What blog are you reading?

    Just the other day there was a large discussion about whether the Federal Government should continue denying the rights/benefits and priviledges (per DOMA) to Homo’s wanting to jump the broom

    Most on here are Liberterian, some are small c Conservatives, some fit William Buckleys definition of Conservatives, others are Republicans and a few are misguided and speak from the left side of the house.

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  34. Poosh

    ffs, is Sarah Jessica Parker REALLY ugly !?

    She is at the very least above average. Honestly. Half the women out there aren’t a patch on her. Is she a looker? Or a stunner? No, but that doesn’t make her ugly. Ugly is Rosie O Donald.

    This really grinds my gears.

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  35. sahrab

    But my point is that if this place can’t be both a site for right-wing people AND a good sample of centrist opinion

    Take a look at the name of the Blog. The left coast, of the United States, generally tends to trend to the left. The Blog is “Right Thinking on the Left Coast”. I always took it to mean a Double Entrendre

    To most of America… nay the world, anything to the right of left will be more central

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  36. Jim

    I wouldn’t say it is centrist in an overall way either, so I’m not necessarily disagreeing with your assessment on that. There are, however, a large variety of issues that cover the spectrum, it is just that nearly all of those issues are social as opposed to fiscal. And because the biggest issue facing America today in this election cycle is the economy, I believe that is coming through with much more strength.

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  37. Kimpost

    Based on what you know of American politics and stereotypes, you tell me who my co-worker should vote for based on this description: hunter, gun-lover, anti-black, anti-gay, anti-welfare, wants government out of his life completely.
    This man would vote Democrat, and why? Because his dad always said to vote Democrat (his dad was Union and could be described by all of the above.)

    I’d prefer if the idiot didn’t vote at all. People around me usually call me a cynic, but I’m honestly not cynical enough to accept your anecdote as evidence of anything substantial. Sure people aren’t as well-versed as they should be, but your example seems extreme.

    Anyway, someone should tell him that a racist, gun clinging, gay-basher probably should NOT vote for the party of communists, gun grabbing nigger lovers, faggots and one world government marxists. Not if he wants to cling on to his red neck credentials.

    In nearly every poll taken, America leans right of center. Yet, somehow, the Democrats held the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives until the last election. Sometimes who people vote for just does not accurately represent their ideologies.

    I agree with you that America seems to lean right of center. That’s my general impression too. But I don’t agree with you that Democrats winning elections is evidence of people not voting according to their beliefs. I think it’s more likely that it is because Democrats and Republicans are pretty much perceived as being the same. In spite of the heated debate, the differences aren’t exactly overwhelming.

    Forget about the libertarians, and the tea partiers. None of them are going to win anyway. The people in control are, and will continue to be, the party elites in Washington DC. That would be Democrats and Republicans who largely agree on things like:

    – Keeping the Fed.
    – Loving wars.
    – Adoring the Patriot Act
    – Keeping the status quo on special interest influence
    – Protecting the Second Amendment, but with limitations.
    – Some kind of amnesty for illegals aliens.
    – They are in the same ball park on taxes.
    – Being tough on crime.

    They differ in nuances within above mentioned areas, but overall they are the same. They can quibble over gay rights, or whether there should be a 2% or a 3% cut in defence spending. Or on how an amnesty should be sold to the public, but sold it will be…

    As for the idea that right-thinking.com would be centrist, I’m having a hard time taking it seriously. :) This is a very right-leaning and/or libertarian dominated place. Sure there are more right-leaning blogs than this one, but that doesn’t make this one anywhere near the centre. This place is to the right of Fox News commentary. I like you guys, and I like this place, but come on, let’s be real.

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  38. JimK *

    oh, and I think the Star Wars prequels are better than the originals… yeah.

    I want you to die. Slowly. At the hands of a madman. Maybe with some sort of acid and razor cuts involved. And salt. You should be salted regularly while being flayed alive by a crazed madman.

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  39. hist_ed

    Yet, somehow, the Democrats held the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives until the last election.

    I think a lot of that was voting against Republicans rather than voting for Democrats. Witness how quickly that turned around.

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  40. hist_ed

    Guess I’ll say it again. I have to agree with Kimpost and CM here (maybe the only time?? oh yeah, that TV thread). The opinions on this site are not centrist. I say this with much love and affection, and as one of the most right wing here.

    I am reminded of the reaction, perhaps apocryphal, of a New York establishment lady to the election of 1972, something like ‘Nixon won? But but, everyone I know voted for McGovern.”

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  41. Poosh

    I’ll stand by what I said damn you all to hell. The prequels, as what they are CHILDREN’S MOVIES are outstanding and they amount to a tragedy that will outlive us. Yes the execution is messed up in places, but the vision is still there, and few movies do escapism like they do. I also grew up with the prequels rather than the originals, so I’m looking at if from a different perspective than most of you guys. I was about 12 when the Phantom Menace came out! And I never watched the originals until the ‘hype’ for that movie started.

    Yeah Lucas fucks up a lot, probably ’cause he’s surrounded by ‘yes men’ who are too scared to tell him “don’t you think Vader saying ‘nooooooooooooo’ is kinda retarded? Perhaps a moster-like deep roar would be more apt.” But at the end of the day there’s pretty much nothing else out there like it, bar LOTR (not even Lucas is retarded enough to have GHOSTS lift the siege of Gondor). And also the prequels have a mythic moral to them which is tragic in the Greek sense, Anakin falls because he cannot accept the tragic truth of humanity, as told in Buddhism, that everything we love will die and nothing is permanent. He turns to the Dark Side because he desires power to control the world around him because he fears losing the things he loves – such as woman he loves – and in doing so he seals his fate and hers. Sure Lucas’ execution leaves a lot to be desired, but the story and escapism is there, and they were the movies of my youth, as the originals were for most of you guys. The prequel’s story is far superior to the original, even if the original’s execution is superior. They’re more complex as well. Notice Palpatine doesn’t lie when he tells Anakin the Jedi are trying to take over the Republic! THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE DOING. The films are filled with nuances and subtleties that go unnoticed because Lucas makes too many stupid and easily avoided errors such as “Yippeee!”

    Sure, there are other movies with better crafted dialogue, and less stupidity. But even the best movies that win Oscars are really much about nothing. Have you seen fucking Avatar!? I’ll take the prequels over 80% of the movies that are out there ’cause at their core is a story worth teaching children, that is timeless.

    Oh, and also, I QUITE LIKED JAR JAR BINKS. *raises shields

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  42. Manwhore

    He was only mildly racist and delivered many a racist joke to episode 1 without George needing to hire another black Armenian to make his point (lando’s last name ended in “Ian” which means he is Armenian).

    Jar jar, on the other hand, was definitely a backhand to black people everywhere, and more specifically the island blacks. George wasted no time painting them up as primitives who couldn’t even compose full sentences.

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  43. sahrab

    Depends… Do you mean “Originals” as in the original theatrically released (EPIV-1977, EPV-1980, EPVI-1983) , or do you mean the “originals” as they were edited and re-released in the “Special Editions” (1997)?

    Short story; when Star Wars first came out, i was an Air Force brat living in Germany. Every Wednesday was “American” night at the German drive in, my parents packed us all into the family truckster to go see a movie. Not having commercial, english, television (we only had one english channel AFN) we hadnt seen any previews and my family was clueless on what this Star Wars was about.

    We get to the theatre, and due to the overwhelming hit of the movie, they canceled “American” night to show the movie in German. As we were already there, and we all had a pretty good grasp of the language, the first time i saw Star Wars it was in German.

    I hate the remastered special edition versions of the movies, i think the added special effects detract from the movie. I thought the Prequels were ok, but in my opinion: maybe because the “Originals” didnt have the special effects available, forced them to ensure the story was better. The prequels relied upon the special effects instead of having a solid story. Didnt like the second guy who played the older Anakin, he really over-acted his parts.

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  44. Poosh

    There’s not much difference between the original originals and the Special Editions other than Greedo shooting first, they’re pretty much the same movie. I think Special Effects are one of the most important things about Star Wars, and each movie has pushed the boundaries in terms of technical expertise and artistic vision. They would just be good but non-special stories, without them. No one would care if the x-wing trench scenes, or AT-AT or asteroid battle, or big fleet battle against Death Star 2, didn’t take place. Special Effects are one of the reasons we go see a movie and don’t read a book, after all! I think the prequels had a superior, stronger story, but the dialogue and acting failed to support it. That was Lucas’ fault. People bitch about CGI and in most movies these days the CGI is nothing interesting or unique, but in the prequels the CGI was fantastical and unique, and a joy to look at, imo.

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  45. AlexInCT

    Anything that has Ewoks in it sucks ass. Period. And all the people inferring that Jar-Jar was a racist throwback by Lucas remind me of the skit in the movie “Back to School” where Rodney Dangerfield’s character tells Vonnegut he is withholding the check because he got a C- for the paper Vonnegut wrote on himself which the teachers all found to be incorrect because it didn’t express their opinion of Vonnegut. Personally I saw Jar-Jar as just more of the same stupid as the Ewoks, just not as bad as them, which in itself was bad enough. besides, everyone knows Lucas’ real crime was that last Indiana Jones movie which South park so perfectly parodied.

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  46. Poosh

    I saw Return of the Jedi when I was quite young. I loved the Ewoks… Ironically my parents made us watch the Ewoks cartoon (which was great children’s cartoon actually) before the actual movies lol. I don’t see why grown men moan about childish elements of a children’s movie – it’s just as retarded as moaning about the ‘adult violence’ in Saving Private Ryan.

    Jar Jar is a classic example of people with racist notions, projecting their own racist ideas onto a blank slate. People said original Star Wars was racist ’cause Vader wore black armour … … even though he was white inside and the Storm Troopers all wore white.

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  47. CM

    Rich, check out Poosh’s comment in the woefully inept ‘discussion’ about unwed mothers in the other thread…….basically he’s suggesting that there are conservative truths that must be accepted (and so there is no need to support them with evidence or logic in any discussions here). He’s certainly not the only one who has this view. It’s certainly not the first time this has come up.
    I think that’s an indication of where this place sits. There may be some deluded theory that anyone can join in the discussion, but the reality is quite different.

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  48. Poosh

    that’s not what I said CM. You’re being an idiot – or are an idiot. One of the two. There are things we know and have seen time and time again, we’ve seen the evidence. Sometimes they are quite elaborate arguments. Yet you demand “evidence” for them. The EVIDENCE and LOGIC has already been expressed.

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  49. CM

    You’re just repeating it again: in order to engage in discussion there is a requirement to accept ‘known truths’. Apparently causation isn’t even required to be shown because it’s KNOWN.
    That kind of nonsense pretty much ensures a place which only ever involves a small fraction of the spectrum of opinion/thought/belief. Which is fine, if that’s what you want. What I’m saying is that people shouldn’t fool themselves into thinking it’s something different.

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  50. Poosh

    No, you suggested that we were bypassing Logic and Evidence and replacing it with something else. You stupidly think this means we’re wrong, merely because you’re not ,personally, able to view the evidence; this has no baring on the truth – maybe we’re wrong and our evidence is crap – maybe we’re 100% right, but the act of not showing you, personally, the evidence in and of itself is meaningless. You cannot expect on a right wing blog, for us to AT EVERY TURN, provide you with a dissertation or links for every single point that you would expect a conservative or right-winger to believe in. It’s not sustainable.
    And you’ve projected some spastic bullshit on myself and others, about us not being rational: thus my annoyance. My point was that you are demanding we prove what – as far as we’re concerned – has already been proved. Now politely asking for links etc is different to demanding us to show you what you think is evidence; and my point was that sustained arguments with evidence are also found in literature which cannot be pulled/ reproduced in thirty seconds. The argument that single-parent mothers can have a negative effect on society is a long sustained argument in various books such as the one I singled out.

    From that you decided to spout all this shit about “truths” etc.

    Imagine if you were in an anti-racist blog, and you said “all the races were equal” and I came along and said “OH PROVE IT! SHOW ME STATS NOW”. It would aggrieve you.

    This has always been a libertarian/right wing blog. Centre Right is the main position here. It is a mainly economically conservative blog with a strong slant AGAINST social conservatives. It has always been heavily pro-capitalist. This definition applies to those who regard the “centre” of politics as a mixture of both positions and not a reflection of the “majority” belief.

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  51. richtaylor365

    .basically he’s suggesting that there are conservative truths that must be accepted (and so there is no need to support them with evidence or logic in any discussions here).

    I read his comment and I did not come to the same conclusion that you did. First off, one guy postulating a premise, and another saying ,”Hell, yeah” does not in my mind constitute a consensus. You have two guys agreeing with each other, so what? Nothing has changed, if you spout off and make a statement as fact, you should be prepared to back it up and prove it. The very fact that this thread is so long should indicate to you that there is not “conservative truths” unsupported but just accepted at work here but a number of different opinions and takes on the topic. So no, your theory that all right thinking folks goose step to the same beat is not factual and has not been proven.

    He’s certainly not the only one who has this view.

    Him and Alex, did you see any more here that aligned with that position?

    It’s certainly not the first time this has come up.

    That what has come up? That someone presented something here that you think was not sourced adequately or proved properly?

    There may be some deluded theory that anyone can join in the discussion, but the reality is quite different.

    How so? Who is being stopped from joining the discussion? You seem to handle yourself just fine, I’m not getting what the problem is.

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  52. CM

    See, you made me write a dissertation ABOUT WHY WE CAN’T BE EXPECTED TO WRITE DISSERTATIONS! This is why this is retarded!

    Jesus Fucking Christ, would you guys stop it with the whole “dissertation” load of shit? Honestly, who do you think you are fooling? I’ve never once asked for a disseration. Not once. If you can’t see the difference between providing no evidence at all and providing a disseration, then you need your fucking head examined mate.

    SHOW US THE FUCKING CAUSATION.

    but the act of not showing you, personally, the evidence in and of itself is meaningless

    Considering it’s always put forward as if it were undisputable fact, it in fact has great meaning that the person making the claim can’t even seem to begin to show it as fact.

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  53. JimK *

    It really pisses me off – to a degree that I need to stay away from the site for a day or so – that CM turned this thread into an argument.

    I’ll see you all in a couple of days. Better that I walk away rather than react.

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  54. CM

    But everyone agreed that’s what I’d do……
    I love how it was ME that turned it into an argument though. Nobody else involved at all. Must have been arguing with myself I guess huh.

    Yeah I’m outta here too….it’s party time in this city.

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