Over The Top?

Dovetailing with the last post about jiggling boobs in commercials, another facet of British delicacy which I find both appealing and refreshing is their bare knuckle candor at which they interact with each other in Parliament. Politicians sometimes hide behind the notion that politcs, like tennis, is a gentleman’s game, hardly.

Florida GOP Congressman Allen West this afternoon dispatched a scathing personal email to Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, calling her “vile, unprofessional ,and despicable,” “a coward,” “characterless,” and “not a Lady,” and demanding that she “shut the heck up.”

Since when did Daniel Hannan join the House? You can read the entire email, and the Wasserman Schultz comment of the floor the precipitated it, in the link I provided.

So, here are the questions. I realize Allen West is new and all, but did he over do it? Should this have been sent straight to Debbie without CC’ing the world? Should his disgust at her as a human being be made public? Is he proving himself a neophyte by taking anything any politician says personally, not understanding that this is how the game is played, it’s not personal, it’s politics?

Or, is it about time that one of these clowns actually shows some stones and goes after the perpetrator of a personal attack like most of us would? Given the gravity of the situation we find ourselves wrt to the debt, the deficit, and out of touch politicians that could not gauge the pulse of the people with a stethoscope, isn’t some fiery rhetoric (that’s all it really is) a welcome respite?

I like Allen West a lot and think he has a huge future in politics with the sky the limit, but I’m hoping he thought this whole stunt through and calculated it’s effect prior to execution, and was not some reactionary impulsive out burst.

Comments are closed.

  1. Hal_10000

    I think it was uncalled for but I can understand the anger. W-S has been he source of the more outrageous things said about the GOP lately. Politifac has been raking over the coals on a regular basis.

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  2. Rann

    I don’t think “CC’ing the world” was out of place at all. After all, openness, honesty, and transparency!

    But glib remarks aside, I see it as him simply taking the precaution of making it public himself, when he did it, rather than leaving it to her to whip out like an assassin’s blade at a time of her own choosing.

    And I agree with hist_ed, it’s remarkably mild compared to some of the outright attacks both Democrat politicians and their supporters have said about conservatives, both specifically and in general… it was simply sent directly to her in an email rather than said on the floor or to a sympathetic reporter.

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  3. CM

    According to the link this is what he was responding to:

    “The gentleman from Florida. who represents thousands of Medicare beneficiaries, as do I, is supportive of this plan that would increase costs for Medicare beneficiaries, unbelievable from a Member from South Florida,” Wasserman Schultz said, saying the legislation “slashes Medicaid and critical investments essential to winning the future in favor of protecting tax breaks for Big Oil, millionaires, and companies who ship American jobs overseas.”

    How is that different from the normal cut and thrust of any democratic body anywhere in the Western world?

    As someone says in the comments section, sounds like he’s just graduated high school. What was that about meme lefties being the emotional ones? ;-)

    Apparently he claims he then apologised, but Wasserman Schultz’s spokesman said they haven’t had one. Apparently he’s even used the attack as a way to fundraise….

    The fundraising email is titled “Vile, Despicable, and Unprofessional,” and it echoes a letter West sent to Wasserman Schultz, copying congressional leaders, on Tuesday in which he called the DNC chair “vile, despicable and cowardly,” and said she was “not a lady.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/20/allen-west-debbie-wasserman-schultz_n_904786.html

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  4. CM

    This is brilliant….

    “I do not have anything to do with the magazine,” West recently told the Palm Beach Post. He was referring to a ribald biker magazine called Wheels on the Road, which regularly degrades women.

    Actually, though, West, who is challenging Democrat Rep. Ron Klein, writes a monthly column for the magazine; its website lists him as a contributor — along with writers who go by Nasty, Phantom, Old Hippy, Doob and Mad Matt. Wheels on the Road routinely features photos of women exposing their breasts, and the October issue includes a rant against Florida Democrat Rep. Debbie Wasserman Shultz. “Someone PLEAZZZZZZZZE get rid of Debbie Wasserman Shitz,” contributor Willie Woo wrote. “That yenta annoys the crap out of me with just her whinning (sic) voice. Guys, can you just imagine banging her (UGGGGGGGGG) and she’s screaming at the top of her lungs!!!”

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  5. richtaylor365 *

    How is that different from the normal cut and thrust of any democratic body anywhere in the Western world?

    First of all there is some history between the two, she has gone after West many times in the past, this was the last straw. Here is her response in the matter. OK, so you are clearly on the side of “he over reacted”, got it.

    Apparently he claims he then apologised

    Not confirmed, and apparently, not going to happen.

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  6. InsipiD

    She called him out by platform but not by name, and suggested that his stands on issues were poor representation of his constituents (by also suggesting that he represented a homogenous group of normally-lefty voters). I think that what he said was fair. If she wants to talk issues, that’s fine, but the way that she referenced him was not something that she should expect to go unnoticed or unanswered. She went for a deep poke and some people don’t seem to like the reaction, but they had no right to expect there wouldn’t be one.

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  7. Seattle Outcast

    I’d have to agree – the left routinely, and publicly refers to GOP members as various types of Nazi, idiot, and hillbilly on a daily basis.

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  8. CM

    I think it was clearly an over-reaction yeah. Her statement didn’t seem to be anything different from what I’d expect from the usual cut and thrust of politics. There was nothing personal involved in what she said. However he seems to have taken it deeply personal and has reacted with strong emotion. Sounds like he needs to get his wheels back on the road ;-)

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  9. InsipiD

    She waited until he left the room, then said:

    “The gentleman from Florida. who represents thousands of Medicare beneficiaries, as do I, is supportive of this plan that would increase costs for Medicare beneficiaries, unbelievable from a Member from South Florida,” Wasserman Schultz said, saying the legislation “slashes Medicaid and critical investments essential to winning the future in favor of protecting tax breaks for Big Oil, millionaires, and companies who ship American jobs overseas.”

    She wouldn’t have said it that way with him in the room, probably. Yeah.

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  10. CM

    Sometimes I honestly think we’re living on different planets. If I have requested further explanation it’s because I don’t quite understand. Or I think I’ve got it, but it doesn’t make sense, so I want to make sure before I respond.

    If one of the main issues is that he wasn’t in the room, then why doesn’t anyone have an issue with the fact that his abusive response was via EMAIL?

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  11. CM

    Agreed, those are good examples of poor behaviour from Dems. Why on earth do they think making comparisons to Nazi’s is EVER a good idea? It’s ridiculous.

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  12. richtaylor365 *

    Chuck Norris does not type, he stares down the keyboard which sends his message telepathically,but his beard can type 140 wpm. Chuck Norris’s keyboard doesn’t have a Ctrl key because nothing controls Chuck Norris.

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  13. Kimpost

    She made a political argument, he answered with a personal insult. He did wrong.

    They have a history, but that only makes his reaction easier to understand, it doesn’t make it right. Is it the end of the world, though? No, it isn’t.

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  14. richtaylor365 *

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Do we really need to have this? I understand the thumbs up/thumbs down feature but nobody here is running a popularity contest. Can we let the comments stand as is?

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  15. Rann

    Why? Seems to be a perfectly good way of expressing your opinion on the quality of someone’s comment without having to post just to say “God, your comments suck.”

    So far in the time this version of the site has been active, as far as I’m aware comments getting hidden due to low ratings has only happened to two posters… one is now CM, the other was Murgawhatsit. Popularity contest or no, I think it adequately expresses just how fed up some people are with being subjected to the same BS over and over again. Pretty much everyone has seen that CM has a… we’ll be as polite as possible and say “method of approach” to the comments he makes, which generally do not produce meaningful conversation, debate, or even arguments, but tend to become circular and bogged down in semantics, and which are repeated any time any vaguely similar subject is brought up.

    Voting him down isn’t a sign of popularity so much as a sort of general signal that says “We are not interested in listening to you.” As if he were interjecting himself into a conversation in the bar and people were turning their backs on him instead of arguing with him… he’s still allowed in the bar, but that doesn’t mean you can make people listen to him when he’s annoying them.

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  16. Kimpost

    The thumbs up and thumbs down are fine, I guess, but do we need the comments to be hidden?

    I obviously don’t agree with your assessment of CM’s comments. He’s (like me), to the left of most people here, and he’s vocal and passionate, which means that he doesn’t back down. But his posts have substance.

    In all fairness I think that some of the fed up sentiment you are talking about boils down to political disagreements. The right-thinking home doesn’t quite feel like home, when it’s comments are “dominated” or “flooded” by liberal talking points. That, I believe, irritates some people.

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  17. richtaylor365 *

    What I meant was lets keep the thumbs up/thumbs down feature, that makes sense. But I do not like the “Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see” feature, it smacks of censorship. The very fact the CM gets so many thumbs down indicates that people are reading his comments. The two approaches I take are:
    Either rebut what he says, prove him wrong, or
    Once things have grown tedious and repetitive, either ignore him or just walk away from the discussion.

    Unless you are a drugged out Agent Orange case like loserlame, or a 12 year old nonsensical ranting fool like murgeo, we should not be censoring comments.

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  18. CM

    This.
    Seems to me that some people can’t take what they are continually happy to dish out. And there are many posters who simply can’t accept that there’s a legitimate alternative take on something (and it doesn’t have to be a game, or tactics, or any other lame-ass weak claim).

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  19. Rann

    The thumbs up and thumbs down are fine, I guess, but do we need the comments to be hidden?

    Well it’s not like they’re permanently hidden, all you have to do is click on them to show them again.

    But his posts have substance.

    It isn’t the substance or content of his posts so much as the constant “I don’t understand what you mean by that” tactic, which actually means “I actually understand what you mean because it’s blatantly obvious and you’ve already explained it, but I want to make you explain it in some way that gives me a more obvious opening to dismiss or discredit your argument.”

    You can see for yourself how we’ve handled posters we honestly feel have zero substance to their posts. We tend to write them off from the very start, or just use them as punching bags. The thing about CM is that pretty much everyone venting their frustration with him in this thread has tried to engage him in honest debate at some point or another and has come away sick and tired of his “debate style”.

    In all fairness I think that some of the fed up sentiment you are talking about boils down to political disagreements.

    I really don’t think so. That is obviously some amount of annoyance, as is natural, but it’s not the main thing. Hell, Alex and Hal obviously often consider themselves politically at odds, but they’re not only both front page posters but can be quite civil and even friendly with each other. They may be on different ends of the scale of conservative, but it’s essentially the same thing.

    If the political frustration factors into anything with CM, it’s likely that he mirrors so many of the more negative traits we’ve all dealt with involving leftists… the willingness to find any excuse for Democrat politicians, to find every condemnation for Republican politicians, to engage in some of the more dirty styles of our political system… but we know that it’s purely academic for him. Y’know, at least when we deal with American leftists who will use blatantly biased sources, dismiss any concerns, and engage in political hypocrisy, they’re doing so on behalf of a politician they could actually vote for. CM is just doing this for his entertainment… he has no stake in the matter other than wanting to be correct and for those who disagree with him to be wrong. (While he obviously does have a stake in the AGW debates, those have become so repetitive and occur at the drop of a hat that no one wants to see them anymore.)

    I’m sure this feeds the frustration with his “debate tactics”. Frankly we’re tired of explaining things to him when the comment he’s asking for an explanation of often was itself an explanation. It’s just his way of trying to find an avenue of attack when he can’t come by one honestly, and everyone’s kind of sick of it.

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  20. Rann

    They’re hidden, though, not removed. It only takes a click to show them again. All it does otherwise is say that “Enough people disliked this comment that you might not want to bother reading it. If you do, feel free, click here.”

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  21. CM

    I’m thinking about it. I don’t want to, particularly given my long association with MW, but it’s getting pretty ridiculous. And yes, I’m well aware what your opinion on the matter is, thanks.

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  22. richtaylor365 *

    I understand your point, but why hide them at all?
    It’s like being voted off the island. You got to read the comment without the extra effort of another click, you got the chance to vote on it (thumbs down) so now because other folks feel like you, the comment gets relegated to “removed” status (OK, hidden, but still, it’s not there), we are treating people differently because we don’t like what they are saying. I don’t think we should do that.

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  23. CM

    It isn’t the substance or content of his posts so much as the constant “I don’t understand what you mean by that” tactic, which actually means “I actually understand what you mean because it’s blatantly obvious and you’ve already explained it, but I want to make you explain it in some way that gives me a more obvious opening to dismiss or discredit your argument.”

    Well there’s not much point being on a discussion forum if it’s impossible to get people to clarify their positions. Perhaps people shouldn’t generalise so much. I mean if a liberal came on here and wrote 10% of the sort of “people on the left are all retards and emtional’ shit that gets dished out here on a weekly basis you’d all think they were extremist partisan hacks with no objectivity whatsoever.

    I think the main problem is the gross generalisations that many posters seem to throw around to the point where it’s normalised. And so anything that isn’t consistent with those generalisations and general hatred of anything different automatically gets them (you) all fired up.

    You can see for yourself how we’ve handled posters we honestly feel have zero substance to their posts.

    I think what you really mean is that you don’t like my politics. Or my questions about yours.

    The thing about CM is that pretty much everyone venting their frustration with him in this thread has tried to engage him in honest debate at some point or another and has come away sick and tired of his “debate style”.

    Oh right, like where I asked Balthazar for some examples, and he gave me two, and I acknowledged them? Or where Rich and I joked about Chuck Norris? Or is it only other part I’ve commented on in the thread where I asked whether her comments are really considered ‘a deep poke’ (as they sure don’t read as a ‘deep poke’ to me)?
    Apparently, those are ALL examples of people trying to engage with me honestly but giving up? That’s just absurd.

    Seems to me that people spat the dummy at the point where I said:

    Said it “that way”? What is it about the statement what makes you think she wouldn’t have said it if he’d been in a room? Is it the word ‘unbelievable’?

    Still not sure why saying that is worth getting your panties all wadded up over, Seems to me that some people here are just looking for any excuse to do so (e.g. like trying to claim that every time anyone in this thread has tried to ‘engage honestly’ I’ve made it impossible). Absurd.

    I really don’t think so.

    I think to the non-conservatives/non-liberatarians, it’s pretty obvious.

    They may be on different ends of the scale of conservative, but it’s essentially the same thing.

    I don’t think it’s even close.

    If the political frustration factors into anything with CM, it’s likely that he mirrors so many of the more negative traits we’ve all dealt with involving leftists… the willingness to find any excuse for Democrat politicians,

    Don’t confuse attacking a weak argument or inaccuracies with defending a politician who isn’t conservative. Why do people have such trouble realising there is a difference?

    to find every condemnation for Republican politicians,

    Wow, exaggerate much?

    to engage in some of the more dirty styles of our political system…

    I’d ask what you meant by that, but you’ve conveniently engineered a situation whereby if I asked questions I’m automatically engaging in ‘tactics’ or a ‘game’. How convenient for you. Who needs direct censorship when you can engineer it indirectly?!

    CM is just doing this for his entertainment… he has no stake in the matter other than wanting to be correct and for those who disagree with him to be wrong.

    I don’t think you’re seeing things accurately if that’s what you think. I’m often wrong. I’ve had my opinion changed on issues before – by discussing things with something on the right. Tell me, have you changed your mind on any issues after engaging in discussions with anyone on the left?

    While he obviously does have a stake in the AGW debates, those have become so repetitive and occur at the drop of a hat that no one wants to see them anymore.

    They don’t HAVE to be repetitive. They can be really interesting, and topical. And I think it’s an excellent subject for exploring polticial/philosophical beliefs as a whole (many on the right get found out when they start arguing against trying to correct market failure). But certain posters just start up with the usual unfounded accusations and insinuations and it then becomes only about politics and descends into brain-dead uselessness. Or it gets shut down when the discussion is about science but climate change is put up as an example to make a point. Apparently it’s more useful and enlightening to write yet another post about how fucking retarded someone would have to be to be a liberal. People certainly appear hungry to read that yet again for the millionth time.

    I’m sure this feeds the frustration with his “debate tactics”. Frankly we’re tired of explaining things to him when the comment he’s asking for an explanation of often was itself an explanation. It’s just his way of trying to find an avenue of attack when he can’t come by one honestly, and everyone’s kind of sick of it.

    But that’s not what I’m trying to do. I don’t want to misrepresent people. So often I’ll try to get something clarified before responded more fully.

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  24. Rann

    Oh right, like where I asked Balthazar for some examples, and he gave me two, and I acknowledged them?

    Oh right, after you’d already been thoroughly called out and were trying various methods of damage control, including “I might leave! I’m totally leaving! But… but if I do, it’s YOUR fault, not any reflection on my own actions or anything I’ve brought on myself! Because nothing’s ever been my fault in my life, and I’m not going to start now!”

    Concern troll is indeed trolling, and you can just go get your feeding elsewhere.

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  25. CM

    Oh right, after you’d already been thoroughly called out and were trying various methods of damage control,

    1. As I don’t see how I’ve done anything wrong in this thead, I don’t consider that I was “thoroughly called out” (or anything of the sort).
    2. You made the claim (“that pretty much everyone venting their frustration with him in this thread has tried to engage him in honest debate at some point or another and has come away sick and tired of his “debate style”) after I posted that. So my first point doesn’t even have to count for you to be wrong (and that’s just one example, but what about the others?).

    Why not just avoid making stupid and clearly exaggerated claims? Really, how hard is it?

    including “I might leave! I’m totally leaving! But… but if I do, it’s YOUR fault, not any reflection on my own actions or anything I’ve brought on myself! Because nothing’s ever been my fault in my life, and I’m not going to start now!”

    There’s another example. Ridiculous.

    As Rich says:

    Either rebut what he says, prove him wrong, or
    Once things have grown tedious and repetitive, either ignore him or just walk away from the discussion.

    That’s what I do with Alex. And I don’t make even 5% of the outlandish claims that he does. Unless of course the rules/standards are applied differently.

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  26. Manwhore

    I wouldn’t come to CM’s rescue over politics, that’s for sure. However, hiding his comments because they didn’t get enough karma…..WTF???? What has this blog become? The high school equal of TMZ?This whole karma thing is retarded.

    If you don’t like what someone says, you are just as free to make a rebuttal. It’s a little “bitch” to hide behind a button and go “chairman mao” from the recliner.

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  27. Manwhore

    I almost forgot…In an effort to not make a comment “dripping with pussy juice” I fucked a cat and kicked an old man’s cane out from under him. I then went to an AA meeting with a keg, signed up for karate classes, slapped a waitress in the ass and skull fucked a russian for sport.

    Tiger blood.:)

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  28. balthazar

    Sorry CM, this doesnt fly, Kimpost has remarkably similar views to you, yet he actually discusses the points and puts forth arguments that dont equate to, “i dont understand what you mean” or “Show me the links”.

    Really, were all internet savvy enough todo a little of our own research.

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  29. balthazar

    She directly attacked him over the Cut Cap and Balace bill, saying it hurt seniors, which is doesnt and WAITED TILL HE WASNT THERE TO CORRECT her todo it. That is vile and despicable she has a history of attacking him as well. Yet he’s never brought up the race card, but what did she do IMMEDIATLY, brought out the sexism card. Shes a useless POS.(like most politicians actually)

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  30. Manwhore

    Oh, forgot to mention it appears that you cannot downding a post; only a comment. Pretty fucked up by comparison. Half these threads could be resolved with downdings.

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  31. JimK

    Oh look, our resident bitchboy is back, bitching. COntributing nothing, just cunt-like complaining and kvetching, as per the usual.

    Dude. Don’t like the site? GTFO.

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  32. balthazar

    You mean you dont Do that already? Coulda fooled me. Since no matter how much we explain it, it only means, what YOU think it means.

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