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Was the WH behind the S&P and Moody credit rating hit job?

When I saw the news yesterday that Moodys put the US rating on a downgrade watch and that was also followed immediately by Standard & Poor’s pushing the same narrative, I immediately became suspicious of the timing and this idiotic warning. Remember that Moody and S&P where the people that kept telling us that all those mortgage security packages, replete with bad loans almost guaranteed to go south, repackaged through Freddie and Fannie, where great investments up until the whole house of cards came crashing down. I smell a rat here, and think this whole concerted attempt by these two to push us into giving the democrats what they want – more debt – isn’t a coincidence at all.

I am still surprised at the fact congress has not subpoenaed the management of S&P and Moodys to figure out what they knew. At a minimum it would prove – if they are going to make the claim they just didn’t know better – they have no fucking clue what they are talking about, or worse, and this is what I suspect happened, they would have to come clean on why they continued to pretend the buckets of shit where being lauded as a buckets of gold. Whether it was done so the fat cats could keep getting bigger houses, faster cars, and nicer fortunes by selling that junk off to everyone, or simply because they figured that nobody would ever catch on, if they knew and let it go on, it was criminal.

Enter Tim Geithner, whom I remind you was the Chairman of the New York Fed when everything was collapsing back in 2008, and for not catching on that the world was melting down around him, got rewarded for his that and his lack of concern about paying taxes like the rest of us by Obama, to the post of Secretary of the Treasury. Let me also point out that Tim has some real cozy relations with both the heads of Standard & Poors and Moodys. So, you can see how I am now immediately suspicious about this concerted effort by these two to convince people that allowing the democrats to force us to rack up trillions more in debt is better for our rating than putting an end to their insane fiscal policies.

What I suspect we have here is Obama telling Timmy to call his buddies and then telling them to help these collectivist tax-and-spend-command-economy nutjobs push their agenda, by making this ludicrous announcement in the hopes it forces the republicans to break down and give in to the Obama/democrat bullshit promise of cuts in the far away future – which guarantees they won’t happen ever – and tax increases that will hit the economy even harder, and that’s just plain wrong. But will the media figure this out and report this or just go right along and continue to shill for Obama and the democrats? I know, rhetorical question. For all their talk about the evil capitalists and the evils of capitalism, these collectivists sure seem to be in bed with the biggest and baddest of them all, and these bastards sure seem willing to say whatever lies it takes to help keep them in business.

UPDATE: More details about the real reason that our rating will be hammered and confirmation that what I was thinking was the reason behind S&P and Moddy doing their announcements come from this WSJ article. Some prime quotes:

So the credit-rating agencies that helped to create the financial crisis that led to a deep recession are now warning that the U.S. could lose the AAA rating it has had since 1917. As painfully ironic as this is, there’s no benefit in shooting the messengers. The real culprit is the U.S. political class, especially the President who has presided over this historic collapse of fiscal credibility.

Moody’s and the boys are citing the risk of a default on August 2 as the proximate reason for their warning. But Americans should understand that the debt ceiling is merely the trigger. The gun is the spending boom of the last three years and the prospect that Washington lacks the political will to reduce it in the years to come.

On spending, it is important to recall how extraordinary the blowout of the last three years has been. We’ve seen nothing like it since World War II. Nothing close. The nearby chart tracks federal outlays as a share of GDP since 1960. The early peaks coincide with the rise of the Great Society, the recession of 1974-75, and then a high of 23.5% with the recession of 1982 and the Reagan defense buildup.

From there, spending declines, most rapidly during the 1990s as defense outlays fell to 3% of GDP in 2000 from its Reagan peak of 6.2% in 1986. The early George W. Bush years saw spending bounce up to a plateau of roughly 20% of GDP, but no more than 20.7% as recently as 2008.

Then came the Obama blowout, in league with Nancy Pelosi’s Congress. With the recession as a rationale, Democrats consciously blew up the national balance sheet, lifting federal outlays to 25% in 2009, the highest level since 1945. (Even in 1946, with millions still in the military, spending was only 24.8% of GDP. In 1947 it fell to 14.8%.) Though the recession ended in June 2009, spending in 2010 stayed high at nearly 24%, and this year it is heading back toward 25%.

This is the main reason that federal debt held by the public as a share of GDP has climbed from 40.3% in 2008, to 53.5% in 2009, 62.2% in 2010 and an estimated 72% this year, and is expected to keep rising in the future. These are heights not seen since the Korean War, and many analysts think U.S. debt will soon hit 90% or 100% of GDP.

The problem is G-O-V-E-R-M-N-T S-P-E-N-D-I-N-G, which has gone up by an insane factor since democrats took the levers of government over after making the ridiculous promise that they would be more fiscal disciplined than their predecessors, not the fact that government, now run by command economy collectivists completely detached from reality and spending at record numbers that make the people they replaced look like pikers, isn’t stealing even more money from the productive sector to buy votes. That’s why we can not let them win this fight. Cuts now, no taxes. The big government gravy train must go the way of the Dodo bird.

32 comments

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  1. mikedomi39 says:

    am still surprised at the fact congress has not subpoenaed the management of S&P and Moodys to figure out what they knew.

    LOL…why??? You have made it clear they must not have known anything. It was all Obama and the democrats. No one else had anything to do with it according to you. Why waste taxpayer dollar?

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  2. AlexInCT says:

    LOL…why??? You have made it clear they must not have known anything. It was all Obama and the democrats. No one else had anything to do with it according to you.

    Mike are you trying to remove any doubt I might have about you being stupid?

    I have never said they didn’t know anything about the problems that where coming, and your attempt to imply that is nothing short of stupid. What I have consistently and constantly pointed out is that the blame lies with democrats, those that came long before Obama BTW, and their policies and ideology, which required them to make deals with these people to pretend the shit the left does is golden, and thus that whenever people like you on the left try to blame them you ignore the real culprits and reasons the problems happened. The culprit in this disaster isn’t the guy that does what he is told, despite the fact that what they did was stupid as hell, but the ones telling him what to do, with the power of the government to back their coercion up. Moody & S&P are not Wall Street BTW, but they are not immune to the travesties the democrats have imposed on the real world economy because of ideology.

    Besides, I point out that congress should make them come in and tell how the democrats made them do both the looking away from government mandated repackaging of shit at Freddie & Fannie and now this bullshit for Obama. Get a clue.

    Why waste taxpayer dollar?

    The democrats are doing that all fine and at new records by themselves, is your point? Finally we can agree on something.

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  3. Kimpost says:

    You started off with a conspiracy theory, but updated it to make it about why Moody and Standard & Poor came with seemingly rational warnings.

    Your original piece no longer makes sense.

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  4. AlexInCT says:

    Yeah sure it doesn’t Kimpost, it’s all insane stuff because we all know these democrats ae all saints and not the crooks they are. But like my prediction about the gunrunner incident going up at a minimum to the DOj and likely to the WH, which is now quite obvious with Eric Holder stone walling the investigation, or the countless other times I pointed out that something was rotten with these people, I expect this to eventually come out to prove I was right too. You can then appologize for pretending I was wrong about that as well. Oh wait. You haven’t even come clean on the earlier stuff you dismissed just as cavalierly as this either, yet.

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  5. Kimpost says:

    They aren’t saints…

    If you stop to think for a while, and read what you and I have said on Fast & Furious, you’ll notice how I’ve pretty much left things open, even if I still think that the grand conspiracy you have voiced is silly.

    Please remember that you didn’t stop at Holder (or Obama) knowing about the program. No, you suggested that the entire operation was an orchestrated move to ban guns. That’s some serious super-villain stuff right there.

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  6. HARLEY says:

    Please remember that you didn’t stop at Holder (or Obama) knowing about the program. No, you suggested that the entire operation was an orchestrated move to ban guns. That’s some serious super-villain stuff right there

    What else could it have been, it either comes down to massive ineptness, or out right villainy.
    You did read the sworn statement that ATF officials were ecstatic that “their” guns were found at crime scenes in Mexico,didn’t you?
    that the ATF program did not have a component to it to track the guns after they left the store,?
    Allowed guns to be shipped to MS-13 in Honduras?
    can you say WHAT THE FUCK?

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  7. Kimpost says:

    It’s a major cluster fuck. Seems like at least parts of the ATF are very poorly operated. The issue doesn’t need the conspiracy component to be a scandal. It’s bad enough as it is.

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  8. HARLEY says:

    Some parts?
    Its not a cluster fuck, a cluster fuck is forgetting to put your arresting teams in the right positions.
    I repeat.
    This was not a sting, that requires a component to arrest and capture and document their actions after they left the store with their guns, There was NO attempt to do that, they never bothered to do that, no tails not tracking, nothing. They had no idea where these guns were headed.
    in fact many of these guns never made it over the boarder, they are now turning up in crimes here in the USA.

    Kim the Current deputy director,Acting as the Director, had cameras on the stores where the guns were sold. HE had monitors in his office so he could watch the exchanges.
    Holder bragged about the tracking program in a speech in Mexico.
    They knew about this in its entirety, they ran it, no one else had the authority to authorize a cross boarder operation, all without telling the Mexicans.

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  9. Kimpost says:

    I’m sorry I missed this, but I’m still not swayed. All you are doing really is that you are piling evidence of how poorly this was run. Has anyone leaked anything suggestive when it comes to the conspiracy* part of the whole thing?

    *) That would be the part saying that Obama (or Holder) ordered handing over guns to criminals without tracking them, so that people would get killed and it would become easier to pass gun control legislation.

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  10. AlexInCT says:

    Please remember that you didn’t stop at Holder (or Obama) knowing about the program. No, you suggested that the entire operation was an orchestrated move to ban guns. That’s some serious super-villain stuff right there.

    And I still stand by that observation. You might have a point that we will never know the truth because even Obama isn’t so stupid as to think he can say he meant to do just that in public and get away with it, but I believe these democrats perfectly capable of this and far worse. That’s based on experience with them over 3 decades. These leftist elites truly believe that the end justifies the means, that the other side must be crushed at all costs, and they play for keeps even when it comes to the not so important things. It’s not by accident that they immediately accuse everyone else of nefarious motivation and behavior whenever they don’t get their way, because they know they would not just do that, but far worse, and have done it too, to win.

    You seem to have a hard-on for Obama and are hell bent on giving him and his people the benefit of the doubt, even when they clearly don’t deserve anything of the sort and in fact should be looked at hard – and I understand why. It might be very hard for you to accept that the man is a scumbag, trained & run by some of the most vile and despicable people in American politics – he hails from Chicago where politics is a blood sport and democrats have basically used every tactic in the book to eliminate the competition and now are even using it on each other as the both Blago and Rham Emmanuel affairs, to name a couple, show – but to me that’s as clear as the sun. I am inclined to expect the worse from him, and so far, he has not disappointed.

    Lucky for me Issa doesn’t look like he is backing off on this, and the LSM can only ignore it or cover for these tools for so long, but they will find out what was going on. Especially with the acting director of the ATF now clear he will not go under the bus to save Holder & Obama. Hopefully he doesn’t meet with some unfortunate accident before he can testify. Still, maybe we will have to wait for the statue of limitations to run out on this to really find out how far it went, or never find out. But those of us that know better know this operation was run so the WH could create a “crisis” they could use to fuck with gun ownership rights in the US.

    EDIT: BTW Kimpost, I am not alone in figuring out that these people where breakign the law in order to create a crisis that would let them restrict American’s access to guns, and I also guarantee you they want more gun control not because they think guns kill people, but because armed people might some day decide they have had enough of them and deal with them the same way our forefathers did with the Brisitsh tyrants of yore.

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  11. HARLEY says:

    not yet…
    Holder and the DOJ are stonewalling , blocking, firing agents that have testified, and refusing to answer outright questions.emails though the FOIA and court order are being going through.
    What we do have is testimony that the ATF directors and supervisors reacted with GLEE on finding “their” guns at crime scenes in Mexico, and a email that is clearly showing that there is a attempt to push for new firearm regulations with the “evidence” of these guns being found in Mexico.
    but you cant possibly suggest that the lack of a team assigned to track these weapons is just a over site….no one is that fucking clueless.

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  12. Kimpost says:

    I think that it’s probably difficult to be a scumbag to the degree that’s required here – while being the elected president of the United States.

    If Obama did this, then he’s Stalin or Hitler, separated from them only be degree, not by morality. Without pretty hard evidence, I’m having a hard time swallowing that.

    Besides being evil himself, he would have to be surrounded by other evil people for this to happen. Not just rough politicians willing to end peoples careers for political gain, but actual murderers. Then there’s the little thing with handling the multi agency operation without people ratting the evil bastards out, which means that the ATF was in on it. Who else? The FBI? The DEA? State police? The Justice Department?

    Plausible? Likely?

    I just don’t get it. Why isn’t the scandal enough as it is? Forget about the grand (and silly) conspiracy. People have likely died because of an extremely mismanaged multi agency operation. People need to be held accountable for that.

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  13. Kimpost says:

    [...]but you cant possibly suggest that the lack of a team assigned to track these weapons is just a over site….no one is that fucking clueless.

    Incompetence rarely surprises me. It often seems limitless…

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  14. CzarChasm says:

    No conspiracy here, just move along, nothing to see…..

    Riiiiight. Just a coincidence that Obama has ordered through Executive Order that the ATF enforce “regulations” (actually, dictates from the WH – regulation would require the involvement of Congress passing laws and such, but why quibble over minutia?) that the purchase of multiple long guns in short time periods be reported to ATF in the border states. Yeah, just a coincidence.

    Well, maybe not. One of the first “smoking gun” emails has come to light describing the rationale for that dictate from the WH. From that article:

    Katie Pavlich broke the story yesterday of a ”smoking gun” email between ATF officials: Mark R Chait, assistant director for field operations with the ATF, copied ATF deputy assistant director for field operations on an email to William Newell, the special agent in charge (SAC) of the Phoenix Field Division:

    “Bill – Can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same FfL and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a letter on long gun multiple sales.”

    Chait was asking Newell to use tracing data to support an initiative supported by the administration to require the reporting of multiple rifle sales.

    If that sounds familiar, it should; this week, President Obama pushed an executive order — an end-run around Congress – stating the feds will now require the reporting of multiple rifle sales within a five-day period. That the office of the presidency lacks the constitutional authority to enact such a rule seems irrelevant to this administration, which is certain to see this edict challenged in court if the ATF attempts to enforce it.

    Even more damning: the existence of more emails that confirm these same ATF officials and others were colluding to use the Operation “Fast and Furious” guns that they helped smuggle into Mexico as a pretext for the new reporting regulation.

    More emails to come, eh? This was nothing but a gun control effort from the start. You leftists really think Obama or Holder give a good goddamn about a bunch of Mexicans getting killed south of the border? Get real. They care only about consolidating their power just like Hitler and every tyrant in the history of the world has, and the first step is always disarming the citizenry. More than a conspiracy, this is treason against the Constitution, and it won’t be finished until the traitors at the top are lined up in front of a firing squad at Leavenworth to take their rightful place in Hell.

    CC

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  15. AlexInCT says:

    I think that it’s probably difficult to be a scumbag to the degree that’s required here – while being the elected president of the United States.

    Not at all Kimpost. Besides, did you miss the Clinton years? That’s another scumbag that got elected. Al Gore? John Kerry? The left is full of them. Obama is the first president elected by a complicit media. Obama BTW was the first candidate, in my experience ever, where the media not only suffered from a self inflicted case of Alzheimer’s when it came to finding out facts and reporting them, but actively covered the truth for the guy whenever they realized he was dirty. The media spend more time looking at the VP candidate of the other party, making wild accusations with false proof, and trying to tear her down and destroy her, while ignoring the presidential candidate, on any given one day, than they did looking into Obama during the entire campaign and even after. Too many Americans where simply ground down into voting for this idiot. Most of them, regret it, even if only a few admit it.

    Besides, this guy has no qualifications or achievements, other than fooling so many Americans to vote for him, and where we are today, with an economy that is getting worse, not better, 3 new wars, one clearly to steal oil for the Europeans, and more of the very things he told people he would never, ever do, because he was the anti-Bush, proves that. Shit, the idiots at the Nobel committee even gave this idiot a peace award, of all reasons to slight Bush, because there was nothing in this guy’s past to merit that, only now to watch him take the wars to a new level. Every time the moron makes a gaffe it’s like they just miss it. When Bush misspoke – which to me seemed to happen with a lot less frequency than Obama says incredibly stupid things – we had 24/7 coverage of how stupid he was, for weeks, if not months, but in Obama’s case all we kept hearing was how incredibly brilliant and “articulate” he was, that is, as most of us knew but others finally found out, all bullshit, as soon as the TOTUS (that’s the Teleprompoter of the United States) broke down.

    But I digress. This guy has some of the dirtiest connections possible. He is an Alinsky disciple, a hard core America hating Marxist, and a believer. He was involved in one atrocity after another in Chicago – from Rezko to Blago – but somehow managed to have them all thrown under the bus while he made his climb up the ladder of power. The history of how things have been going since he got elected speaks for itself too. The guy is dirty very dirty.

    If Obama did this, then he’s Stalin or Hitler, separated from them only be degree, not by morality. Without pretty hard evidence, I’m having a hard time swallowing that.

    No Kimpost, Obama has not risen to the level of either of these guys, and you do a disservice saying so. The operative word might be “yet” though. He sure as hell might share their political/ideological views, even admire them for the power – in the case of Stalin for sure, but Hitler, likely not so much, and that’s because like most leftists, he has been indoctrinated to think of Hitler not as the statist socialist he was, but as a right winger, so the left could pretend the right had a bad guy too, but I am sure he does admire Mao, Castro, and by his own words, quite a few of the nastiest world leaders at this time – they wield/wielded. But yes, he is not above using any crisis to further the left’s agenda, and disarming the public has been a high priority on the left for a very long time. I see only one legitimate reason to do this: a disarmed public is easier to abuse by tyrants.

    Besides being evil himself, he would have to be surrounded by other evil people for this to happen.

    You miss out how many of the people surrounding him have committed crimes and had them just ignored? From massive tax evasion – a thing that makes me wonder how stupid Americans are when the very people clamoring for more and more taxation seem to be the ones more likely to ignore the very rules they want the rest of us to follow – to downright crime, look at Blago, Rezko, and the other Chicago people he left under the bus on the way up, but more importantly, look at how many of them have grown their fortunes big while the rest of us are seeing the country go down in flames.

    Not just rough politicians willing to end peoples careers for political gain, but actual murderers.

    What’s your point? Leftist tyrants have always told us that you could not make an omelet without breaking eggs. You miss the history of the last century? A lot of this stuff happened a lot closer to where you live than to us, so I am surprised you seem to not be aware of it. Besides, these guys seem hell bent to destroy the country, so what are a few dead Mexicans or a couple of dead American border guards, to them? The end justifies the means.

    Then there’s the little thing with handling the multi agency operation without people ratting the evil bastards out, which means that the ATF was in on it.

    If your assumption is that everyone along the chain of command had to get all the details of the operation to get things done, then you disappoint me. They where likely told that what they were supposed to do is track the guns so they could find out how the Mexicans where getting them. Several ATF agents realized this operation was full of holes and balked at their orders, doubly so when they where told they had no need to know how the weapons would be tracked once over the border and out of their jurisdiction. Most of them are being screwed over for doing that and retaliated against for going public.

    Who else? The FBI? The DEA? State police? The Justice Department?

    There was no state police or DEA/FBI involvement in this operation as far as I can tell, and they where not given the details. They didn’t even warn the border agents, and that’s why two of them where killed. “Need to know” is a bitch. But the DOJ was in on it for sure. Holder is another big scumbag.

    I just don’t get it.

    And you will pardon me for saying that is obvious to me. You likely do not understand how important the second amendment is to the survival of this republic. Our forefathers put that in there to make sure the people could defend themselves, not from invaders, but from tyrannical governments. Look at Europe, where guns have been banned in most places. Those people are all sheep. Most of them willingly traded their rights and freedoms to get some false sense of security, provided by a state that knew damned well they couldn’t afford what they promised for too long, and when that house of cards comes down, they will have no recourse to defend themselves from the travesties that will come to pass.

    Why isn’t the scandal enough as it is?

    So, your point is that they did this just for kicks? No reason required? Or is it that they are absolutely inept? See, while I believe that they are inept – that’s why this went wrong – I also believe that even the most inept would have realized that this thing was doomed from the start. Once over the border these weapons could not be got at. No US law enforcement agency, and especially the ATF, has EVER allowed that to happen, because they understood the danger. Yet, in this case they let it happen to over 2000 assault weapons? And then, despite the objections of key and experienced agents that pointed the problem out (only to then be retaliated at!), they went ahead with the operation. Coincidentally, at a time when the left was losing battle after battle in court to overturn the second amendment, and Obama tells people he has a plan to reverse that. Really? Maybe you feel incurious and disinclined to see the connection because you do not want to think bad of your ideology, but not me.

    Forget about the grand (and silly) conspiracy. People have likely died because of an extremely mismanaged multi agency operation. People need to be held accountable for that.

    Yeah, that’s all it was. Mismanaged. Just like the economy and all the rest. Heh! Why do I get the feeling you would still be making excuses for this guy even if he where to admit this was the intent from the start?

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  16. Kimpost says:

    Christ, the conspiracy is really strong in you, Lord Alex.

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  17. Kimpost says:

    I don’t doubt that the administration wants more gun control, and that they are looking for things that would help them to accomplish that (not because they want control or because they want to be tyrants, though, but because they genuinely believe that guns sometimes kill people).

    Anyway, yes, the looking happening while Fast & Furious was happening, I would regard as a very probable coincidence. They would always be looking for stats supporting that guns kill people.

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  18. hist_ed says:

    They would always be looking for stats supporting that guns kill people.

    Guns don’t kill people; bullets kill people.

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  19. Kimpost says:

    ;) You’re a better gun grabber than any liberal!

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  20. CM says:

    What did JimK say about filling the comments with the same shit over and over again?

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  21. Kimpost says:

    What did JimK say about filling the comments with the same shit over and over again?

    “Since you can’t discuss AGW, you’d better find something else to fight over”

    ;)

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  22. HARLEY says:

    i guess its not sinking in.
    they DID NOT TRY to track the weapons after they left the store.
    They ordered the gun dealers to sell the guns against their judgement.
    this in effect is illegal firearms trafficking.
    they were waiting expectantly for crimes to be committed in Mexico, with these guns, so they could push for more regulations.
    This would be like the FDA, ordering that a drug in testing to be produced and sold, hoping that people would be killed, so they could effect new regulations.

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  23. HARLEY says:

    The FBI? The DEA? State police? The Justice Department?

    From the emails so far found, it looks like the FBI paid informants, might have been buyers in some of the cases.

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  24. HARLEY says:

    but because they genuinely believe that guns sometimes kill people

    No shit?
    Well the BATF, is certainly making it easier.

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  25. CzarChasm says:

    Obama’s whole persona is a conspiracy. Only the willfully blind cannot see that he’s not what, much less who, he claims to be. Just take a simple case of an officer being denied discovery to defend himself against charges brought in a court martial. And what was the discovery he was denied? Obama’s birth certificate, that’s all. Producing it would’ve been the military’s evidence to convict Col. Terry Lakin of disobeying orders from his legal Commander in Chief. Well, here, Ann Barnhardt describes it much better than I can:

    Just a birth cert. to convince a career soldier that the orders he was being given, and the man giving them, were legal. What possible reason could Obama have for keeping his past such a closely guarded secret? Like Sister Ann said, a document that all Americans have and are required to provide multiple times throughout our lives.

    To think that Obama isn’t entangled in layers-deep conspiracies against the better interests of the nation and of The People is no less a fantasy than to believe that a magical unicorn carries the Tooth Fairy around the world each and every night leaving spare change under the pillows of children in exchange for their baby teeth. Operation Gun Walker and Fast & Furious aren’t even particularly significant conspiracies compared to what Obama has in store for this country in the long run, much of which he’s already accomplished simply by virtue of getting away with never proving his eligibility to even be President, and continuing his refusals to prove it after the fact of being “elected.”

    Fast & Furious was never about finding or stopping the trafficking of guns across the border. That would require that Obama and/or Holder gave a crap about Mexico or Mexicans, and believe you me, that’s not a crap that they would learn about while listening to the Black Liberation Theology sermons of the good Reverend Wright and/or his ilk for 20 years. Even the more liberal Americans among us can’t be so blind to reality that they don’t know that the divide between black and brown is just as chasm-like as between black and white or brown and white in this country. Can they?

    No, Fast & Furious was just a wannabe (and soon to be) tyrant acting furiously to disarm this country as fast as possible, thus taking the only true enforcement provision of the Constitution out of the picture. Anyone who believes otherwise better clinch their mouths shut as hard as they can, for with their heads buried that deep in the sand, if they open it, they’re going to get a mouthful.

    CC

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  26. Kimpost says:

    Hahahahaha. Great stuff!

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  27. hist_ed says:

    There is an old Chris Rock routine in which he argues that we should tax bullets so much that they cost $5000: “I’m gonna get a job; I’m gonna work real hard and save my money and in four or five months I’m gonna blow your head off.”

    Me, I think bullets are nice. A couple of years ago, my daughter (17 at the time) gave me a couple of boxes of 9mm hollowpoints (Federal Hydroshoks in case Harley is curious) for Christmas. It was at my Dad’s house, with all of my siblings and nieces and nephews. Most of my family isn’t into guns. The look on some of their faces was wonderful. My favorite present. Now If I can just get her to give it to me at the in-laws’ Christmas Eve–That would be great.

    I still don’t know who she got to buy them for me.

    Last Christmas is was a skeet thrower and a case of clays.

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  28. HARLEY says:

    9mm hollowpoints (Federal Hydroshoks in case Harley is curious)

    147 Grn?… i hope, other wise your pissing in the wind.

    Last Christmas is was a skeet thrower and a case of clays.

    Always fun,
    My father in law bought me a new Mossberg 12 gauge turkey gun, ported, mossy oak camo,
    SWEET…..

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  29. hist_ed says:

    147 Grn?… i hope, other wise your pissing in the wind.

    Yup. Though when it comes to these things, I am not as obsessed by size as many gunners. I have given serious thought to Kel-Tec’s .22 mag as a carry gun. I haven’t fired it yet, but I know that I am much more accurate with a .22 mag than with any common defense caliber, particulary with follow up shots.

    My current first choice gun is an old Spanish 9mm (Star BM). It’s a kinda 1911 knockoff, only 8 rounds, safety not so great (this is the only thing that gives me pause), but it just fits my hand well and I get smaller groups with it than with any other gun I have tried (except varous .22s).

    An old gun buddy is a died in the wool “.4 . . .” guy. He owns and carries .45s and .44 Colts (the one exception to the “.4 . . .” rule was a .50 Desert Eagle that he briefly owned-got rid of it because the ammo was so expensive). He gets this slightly sick look on his face when I ask him if he wants to shoot one of mine.

    My father in law bought me a new Mossberg 12 gauge

    I love my cheap Mossberg 500 ($199 at a sport store with two barrels). I am slowly customizing. Slug barrel comes next, then maybe a folding stock.

    Alas, tight money means a few more years before I really indulge my little firearm urges . . .

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  30. AlexInCT says:

    The st00pid is really strong with you and your wannabe boyfriend, Kimpost.

    The question you remain unable to answer is WHY?. Why did they do something like this? Something unprecedented, and sure to leave weapons in the hands of criminals, with deadly consequences. If your answer is that they are just that inept and unable to understand how this was going to go wrong, I would still ask WHAT the end goal was. Short of being able to claim US weapons are going to Mexico that is….

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  31. Kimpost says:

    The question you remain unable to answer is WHY?. Why did they do something like this?

    It’s better to let an investigation answer that question, but presumably they wanted to follow the guns somehow.

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  32. AlexInCT says:

    It’s better to let an investigation answer that question,

    Eric Holder at the DOJ is making sure nobody can get the facts and answer that question. That should be another red flag, but of course it doesn’t even register.

    but presumably they wanted to follow the guns somehow.

    Unicorn farts and fairy dust. That’s how they where going to follow the guns.

    BTW, the ATF agents being attacks in reprisal for blowing the whistle on this fiasco, by the Obama people, are on the hot seat precisely because they pointed out there was no freaking way to guarantee they could track the guns or prevent them from being used in a crime. NONE. In fact, they pointed out that exactly the opposite was likely to happen: they would lose the guns and they would be used by cartel members to kill people. They where punished for saying that. They however got it right.

    Anyway, now that we have established that no legal US agency could track these weapons – no US legal agencies have jurisdiction in Mexico, and the Mexican Federales where not involved at all, and worse, the two guns with GPS devices in them out of over 2K weapons, wasn’t going to serve any serious purpose – and that anyone pretending that was what they intended to do with this shipment, is plain bullshit, pointed out that the almost assured end result was that these weapons would be used to kill, which they where, what’s left?. Ineptness doesn’t answer the “why” at all.

    So, then Kimpost, the question that begs to be asked and answered is: what was the end goal of this operation – guns from the US lost in Mexico where they would be used to kill – if not to be able to make the claim “Mexican drug gangs are getting guns in the US and using them to kill people”? And what purpose does that serve?

    When you finally get there and figure out all that contorting and dancing around the facts leaves you with no other conclusion, give me a call..

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