Paging Solomon

The other day I threw something together on the Vancouver riots. Right after posting I noticed that many more, much more graphic and damning then what I posted, videos made their way to youtube. Although my gauging of the mood of the crowd was accurate, the severity and intensity was understated.

One of those punks that participated just got found out:

Gee, ya think if he was wearing a mask while trying to torch that police car, masking his identity, that he would have done the right thing and turned himself in? He gets no attaboys from me, he would have been found out regardless.

He is 17, old enough to know the nature and consequences of his actions, he will be tried as an adult.

Next, he said he got caught up in the “mob mentality”, I talked about this in the other post, it is real, I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Things that you would not do if by yourself (or unlikely to do) become less over the top, more manageable and more easily rationalized.

Let’s look at the actual deed. Aside from being a complete chowderhead (if that car had a full tank of gas and the rag was a bit more combustible it would of taken out a good 20 to 30 people in the area) his actions went way beyond arson. I don’t see much difference between this and throwing a Molotov cocktail into a crowded school room.

He mentioned that he was “provisionally” suspended from the water polo team, this to me is inconsequential, they can choose who ever they want to represent them in competition. I’m more interested in the criminal charges brought forth.

So what say you? I’m not looking for anything dopey like that woman on the video who said she was sure he was sorry and that should be the end of it, nor do I want something equally dopey like life in prison or the removal of his head jihad style with a rusty scimitar. Where does justice lie?

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  1. InsipiD

    If you can identify individual infractions that any one person did, they should be punished exactly the way that they would be if the infraction occurred as a single event. That being the case, I’d say that straight arson would be the appropriate charge. Because of the risk to people, I’d like for it to be aggravated arson, but realistically that wouldn’t happen. I would say 8 years would be appropriate, but a few Google looks shows that 3-6 is more likely in Canada. With that being the average sentence for arson, lock him up for that time. The mob doesn’t begin to excuse what he did. He did it, so jail.

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  2. Kimpost

    - Get some experts to rank the risk of the car killing people.
    – Evaluate his involvement in the riot. If he was one of the instigators, charge him for that.
    – Does he have a history of things like this in the past?
    – Charge him for arson if the risk was high enough.
    – Take his age and possible violent history into account.
    – Sentence him.

    I would hesitate to sending a kid (any kid) to jail for extreme lengths of time (more than 3 years), unless it was absolutely necessary (like if he’s done similar things before, if there’s no remorse, if he planned the riot etc.) But that might just be me. I realise that I come from a more liberal culture. Anyway, a year in a minimum security facility should be enough. The rest should be community service. On top of that slap him with a civil suit, but don’t go overboard with that one either. Just try to avoid ruining the kids life in the process of seeking justice.

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  3. CM

    Yep sounds good to me Kimpost. I assume there was no evidence that he planned it. It was a stupid stupid act. A year and then community service sounds about right. No point ruining his life, or hardening him unnecessarily, by making him serve a longer period. Anything longer is going to make a mockery of those serving that long that have done worse things.

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  4. richtaylor365 *

    I purposefully did not include my take on this because I wanted to see where it would lead.

    On this issue I side closer to InsipiD then Kimpost. The usual procedure for cops when dealing with car fires on the freeway (it happens more often then you think) is to clear the area for at least 100 feet, preferably more depending on traffic.There at least a dozen people right next to this car, the fact that it did not explode does not mitigate the seriousness of the act.

    – Evaluate his involvement in the riot. If he was one of the instigators, charge him for that.

    I doubt he was an organizer, just got caught up in the mob mentality thing.

    Does he have a history of things like this in the past?

    Again, probably not, but first time offenders (like the Gifford’s shooter) can do an awful lot of damage to.

    Take his age and possible violent history into account.

    As I said in the post, 17 is old enough to know what he did, he gets no pass here for being a juvenile.

    I agree that he should not get his whole life ruined over this but I’m looking at two things: the potential for serious bodily harm and the potential for rioters (swept up in the mob mentality) to commit serious bodily harm or damage. Remember the short video I posted of that store owner getting assaulted? There were at least a dozen rioters in on the action, no kick or punch of itself hurt him bad but the combination of all of them, bad news for him.

    I would give this guy 3 years in jail with the possibility of getting out in 2 with good behavior, I would give him 5 years after that of probation where if he is charged with any crime, he goes back to serve that remaining year. 2 years is not going to ruin him, but he needs to be accountable for the seriousness of his crime.

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  5. loserlame

    Aye, all those German teens, back in the 70s and 80s, setting ozone-depleting oil-profit cars ablaze, shooting slingshot-powered, sharpened U-bolts around, lobbing colorful paintballs and, in comparison to McDonald’s “foods” far less carcinogenic, ozone-depleting, CO2-producing “Mollis” at cops and government buildings in support of the Red Army Faction, cheering their freedom fighters’ kidnap and murder of Hans Martin Schleyer and other pigs, was just a rite of passage among the Thinking Culture’s youth, there, and around the world. Most of them grew up to vote Green Party.

    They’re not much different than The Bono’s noble fans who lurk around under videos of U2 over at youtube calling critics of Bono “fag nigger shit fuck bastard cock breath drink piss and die BONO IS GOD fag” Is all just a harmless rite of passage. youtube is pretty harsh and Nazi-like with their ToS, but doesn’t do much to enforce them. And hardly anyone who signed their names accepting said ToS abides by them. Freedom reigns, as it should. And the results are so beautiful.

    Give them as many chances as they need to mature into adults, i.e. active green party members.

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