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That ATF sting operation: who was it really targeted at?

What am I talking about? Well, this story about a border patrol agent shot and killed by Mexican drug cartel members:

On the night of December 14, 2010, Agent Terry was on duty in the Rio Rico area of Southern Arizona about 15 miles north of the U.S.-Mexico border. He and three fellow BORTAC agents were summoned to Peck Canyon, one of the many rural pathways alongside Interstate 19 that are notorious as transport routes for smugglers of drugs, humans, and other contraband. Peck Canyon is also notorious as an area plagued by Mexican bandits known as “rip crews” who prey not only on the smugglers and illegal aliens, but also on hikers, ranchers, local police, and Border Patrol agents. Robbery, rape, and murder have become the bandits’ stock in trade. As in so many other areas along our southern border, the rip crews are usually heavily armed, with full-auto machine guns. These areas are assigned to BORTAC Units, a sort of Special Forces for the Border Patrol, composed of tough, highly trained, well-armed, expert marksmen who know the terrain. They are the only units deemed capable of handling both the harsh physical environment and the vicious desperados that populate it.

Something went terribly wrong on that night in Peck Canyon. Agent Brian Terry’s BORTAC Unit reportedly confronted at least five bandits in the darkened ravine. Agent Terry was shot in the back (some reports say pelvis). He shouted he couldn’t feel his legs, and later fell unconscious prior to being pronounced dead. One of the bandits was wounded and captured, along with three other members of the gang. A fifth suspect was apprehended later by Santa Cruz County Deputy Sheriffs. It’s believed several other suspects, including the suspected murderer, escaped back into Mexico.

The murder of Agent Terry was a tragic blow to his family and friends, his fellow Border Patrol agents, and the entire border community. However, to the sorrow and anguish that is natural to a violent death of this sort has been added a sense of frustration, outrage, and suspicion, as a number of troubling discrepancies and changes in the official story of the shooting event have developed. The official veil of secrecy, denial, and stonewalling that has descended over the case has caused members of Brian Terry’s family, members of Congress, and federal whistle-blowers to cry “coverup.”

First, we had the cover ups and the denials. Then the accusations that it was guns, too easy to get in the US and then shipped to the cartels that were responsible for this horrible incident. Easy access to guns allowed the cartels in the Mexican wars to escalate their conflicts to the point they were now shooting American border patrol agents that got in the way of their operations. Of course, the whole thing was a reason that the anti 2nd Amendment crowd, and especially the ones in government, immediately began making calls to basically do away with our basic 2nd Amendment rights, to protect the innocent and prevent such a tragedy from ever happening again, of course.

Remember that this happens right around the time that big cases like District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago are not just going the way of the anti-gun leftists in power, but coming up at a crucial time they are in power, during a big crisis, when some of their elites tell us they wish they could juts act like the Chinese government does and do whatever they want, and, frightening to the anti-gun left, threatening to end their big battle in what they supposed was friendly courts to circumvent or deny us all our second Amendment rights. Say what you will, but I believe the left doesn’t want the citizenry armed for the same reason every totalitarian state from Nazi Germany to Fidel’s Cuba disarmed their citizen, and that’s to destroy the citizenry’s ability to fight back.

Anyway, the stories flood the airways after this border patrol agent’s death that it is easy access to guns in America, and like I already mentioned, in what looks almost like an orchestrated campaign, the verdict is that it is our own 2nd Amendment and easy access to guns is what are allowing the Mexican cartels to arm themselves and be so dangerous. Search for the stories, there are hundreds of news and blog posts making precisely this accusation and many others responding to them and pointing out that is highly unlikely to be the case with our current levels of control. These stories are so numerous I couldn’t pick out which one to include to do this accusation justice. You can do the leg work yourself. But let’s carry on. What’s the answer to the problem then according to our leaders and elite? Of course, that the ONLY way to stop the weapons from going to Mexico, is to deny American citizens their second Amendment.

Unfortunately for the people and the narrative, not everyone buys this bullshit, and especially the proposed and convenient solutions being offered, and thus, they start digging deeper: looking for clues and answers. They hit gold, and while the right was on this more than 6 months before, even the MSM finally admits that what we have is a gunrunning scandal uncovered at the ATF. It seems the ATF, which when caught decided to pretend they were running a “gun running sting operation”, to track where the guns went and how, was the primary source and the bulk supplier of those US guns the left kept telling us about were being used by the Mexican cartels. We are told we are going to get investigations! We find out top officials knew about what the ATF was doing with the guns, despite a lot off effort to hide that. These officials realizing how that this is going to blow up in their faces then resolve to fight back, and what we get is the agencies involved stalling the investigations: its now about the ATF and DOJ doing damage control.

It looks like the whole thing went south, and while some might just blame this on the ineptitude of these people, one thing stand out to those of us that expect this from the people that tell us that they will never let a crisis go by without taking advantage of it.

Beyond f-ing scary!

33 comments

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  1. HARLEY says:

    Sipsey Street Irregulars Is a good clearinghouse for news on this fucking travesty.
    This program to observe the firearms crossing the boarder, seem to NEVER had a component to track them after they went over the board or to arrest or detain anyone.
    I dont want to be cynical, but fuck it, the BATF, for all intents and purposes seems to have deliberately allowed arms to flow over the boarder for their own political benefit.
    At he very least Holder was informed of this program, and gave it his blessing, his ass need to be out of office.
    im gonna quit rambling, before i say something seditious.

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  2. Seattle Outcast says:

    I don’t anybody with more that a few functioning neurons was fooled for a second about what the ultimate goal was with this fiasco – Obama has himself, numerous times, stated that he was working on gun control through alternative means as the NRA has essentially made the issue a career killer for most politicians. About the only politicians that can get away with being publicly anti-gun are from extreme far-left voting districts (Boston, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco).

    Most of the time I feel that, like Ted Kennedy, these people are acting out of a sense of self-preservation, knowing that if the revolution ever comes they will be the first motherfuckers against the wall for an impromptu firing squad.

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  3. Seattle Outcast says:

    From what I’ve been reading at other sites, this could be Obama’s personal Watergate. Unlike Clinton, who managed to spin his obstruction of justice charges into “hey, I’m being persecuted for getting head”, Obama doesn’t really have any options other than to start throwing people under the bus, and eventually he’ll run out of bodies.

    The denials have already started, rather late into the game considering that congress has been demanding files for months, that Obama “knew nothing”. While I easily grant that he is indeed a know-nothing president in general, this particular project is close to his stated goals of further gun regulation. The more stonewalling that goes on, the more likely that he was involved from the beginning.

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  4. HARLEY says:

    The under the table, executive order type ting, or just more rule making by the BATF.

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  5. Kimpost says:

    I have not checked all the links attached to this, but my general take on it is that people obviously screwed up here. Perhaps even in a major way. But do I believe that the Obama administration orchestrated a sinister plot to arm criminals, hoping it would lead to a raise in gun violence, so that it would be easier to push a gun grabbing agenda? No, I find it utterly ridiculous.

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  6. HARLEY says:

    There was no Screw up.

    Given the state goal of the anti gun crowd, i could believe it.
    Waco and Ruby ridge, are perfect examples of the Fed Gov, outright tossing the rules of engagement and proper conduct in favor of big flashy actions, and damm the cost of life on the other side.
    Kim, go read the blogs on this, its fucking damming, this is not one hand not knowing what the other was doing, it is quite simply, a federal Gov agency, deliberately allowing criminals access to firearms and NOT providing the means to arrest them or even stop them. This was a outright criminal act.

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  7. Kimpost says:

    OK, I will. Just a quick check with you here first. Are you suggesting that there’s credible evidence of a Obama administration orchestrated actual plan going from A to C as below?

    A: “Let’s give large amounts of guns to Mexican crime syndicates.”
    B: “Let’s, then wait for the increased numbers of guns to show in crime stats (gun violence going up).”
    C: “Let’s use the statistics to grab people’s guns.”

    If above is what happened, Obama should go to jail. If Obama was not in on it, and Holder orchestrated the thing, he should go to jail. Or Napolitano. See where I’m going with this? This is incredible stuff. Probably too incredible.

    Now is it likely that a government agency (or a couple) screwed this operation up royally? YES.
    Is it possible that another government agency saw an increase in gun violence and wanted to use that statistics to influence policy? YES.
    But a sinister plot from A to C, run by the White House? I doubt it.

    Anyway, Ill check some blogs.

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  8. loserlame says:

    After the guns are gone, we can get back to legalizing all drugs so that the sole reason for any violence – namely profit – disappears, and offer our Mexican brothers free and permanent residency, along with complementary tax freedom.

    Its only fair, as its not in the widely vegan indigenous-Spanish culture to harm anyone willingly.

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  9. AlexInCT says:

    Perhaps even in a major way. But do I believe that the Obama administration orchestrated a sinister plot to arm criminals, hoping it would lead to a raise in gun violence, so that it would be easier to push a gun grabbing agenda? No, I find it utterly ridiculous.

    I have a feeling that even when people like you are made privy to the details of something like this Kimpost, that your response wouldn’t change much. We went through this with Weiner, and it wasn’t until there wasn’t any way for him to lie his way out of it that people on the left finally acknowledged what had been obvious to the rest of us from the start.

    The media here, being anti-people and anti-gun, will not put much effort in figuring out what really happened, but we have congressional hearing coming up – the stalling can only go on for so long before it becomes too obvious – but the congressional hearings are going to show that, at a minimum, this horribly failed attempt was co-opted to push an anti-gun agenda by our elite masters that remain uncomfortable with the fact our forefathers where such geniuses that they enshrined the most powerful defense against a tyrannical government – the ability to protect the first amendment – as our second amendment. I however wouldn’t be the least surprised we find out that the DOJ was actually not only aware of the program and actively using it to undermine the effort to prevent the left from denying us our second amendment, but taking orders from the top brass. This was after all another perfect example of a great crisis that they could use to sell to an unwary public something they would otherwise never accept their government doing to them. Sound familiar?

    BTW, I have become convinced that the main reason the left always accuses their opposition of being involved in some kind of incredible conspiracy, is precisely because they actually do these things. Just like they accuse the other side of cheating at taxes, abusing their power, robbing the poor, and so on, while really being the ones doing it. It’s projection with them. I expect a lot of people to end up under the bus to cover for the top people involved with this sham. I pray we get the facts out despite their effort to hide them. It will be fun to have that discussion when it is obvious this was the plan, be it from the start, or when the whole thing went wrong and they got their “crisis”.

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  10. loserlame says:

    Oh, yeah, and if anyone should get a little overdone by the sun of a little LSD, Obama’s free healthcare will get ;em free rehab and, what the heck, why not some free career counseling/re-education, too?

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  11. AlexInCT says:

    A: “Let’s give large amounts of guns to Mexican crime syndicates.”
    B: “Let’s, then wait for the increased numbers of guns to show in crime stats (gun violence going up).”
    C: “Let’s use the statistics to grab people’s guns.”

    It might surprise you that’s been the strategy even here in the US. we have some serious gun laws already on the book that could be used to put criminals that kill away forever. Instead of using these to lock up the criminals forever or actually execute their asses, they always are lenient on purpose. More crime = less desire to tolerate guns. It’s not a coincidence that the times they are most interested in prosecuting guns is when honest citizens use it to defend themselves while they then all defend the real criminals.

    Your “A” point above might have actually been more like “Let’s sell a large amounts of guns to Mexican crime syndicates and try to track them down, see then see where it takes us. At a minimum we can use whatever violence comes from it to blame the easy access to guns in the US”. They were doing just that before the border agent was killed, and then a lot more of it until the program’s existence came out and they realized they were in hot water. And your “B” point might have been more like “Oh, shit, look at the increased numbers of guns killing Americans, that’s one heck of a crisis we can use so let’s not waste it.” Point “C” has been a defining platform of the elite collectivist scumbags that took over the democratic party during the eighties, if not before.

    Edit: Let me also add that whatever bogus conspiracies the left accuses the right of never pan anything. That is because we all know governments simply can not hide these things despite the leftist’s insistance in crditing their opposition with a far greater ability to do difficult things and keep them secret. When government engages in bullshit this is what ends happening: people find out, and they get pissed.

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  12. Seattle Outcast says:

    You do know that satire of extreme positions cannot be discerned from non-satire, right?

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  13. West Virginia Rebel says:

    Well, the head of the ATF is already getting the boot. I’m guessing that Holder’s days are indeed numbered after this.

    As for Obama’s role…I think he probably signed off on what he thought was a legitimate sting operation. Of course this brings up the whole question of just how much oversight there is over the BATF and other Federal law enforcement agencies.
    West Virginia Rebel recently posted..The EPA’s Way Or The HighwayMy Profile

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  14. loserlame says:

    Aye, thats part of the fun of writing it. To me, anyway…

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  15. AlexInCT says:

    Allowing loads of weapons that we knew to be destined for criminals, this was the plan. It was so mandated.” –Special Agent John Dodson ATF Phoenix Field Division

    The ATF was ordered to do this. The inept attempt to pretend they did it on their own shouldn’t be believed.

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  16. Kimpost says:

    OK, I tried going through some blogs, but had to give that route up. The blogs were much about wading waist deep in mud, which made it difficult to distinguish fact from hate. Free advice to the blogosphere: If you really want to convince people, tone down the rhetoric, and focus on the facts.

    So I mostly sticked to Google and various new sites.

    I say it’s probably an extremely poorly executed sting operation, and some heads need to roll because of it. I have no idea on how high up this was known, or to what detail people at various levels were informed, but that certainly should be investigated.

    Someone in this mess, might have seen an opportunity to use facts (hike in gun violence) to push an agenda, but I’m having a hard time believing that it was orchestrated like that. If it happened it’s likely coming from someone outside the circle of Operation Gunrunner. Like from one of those stats-analysis guys, every administration has its fair share of.

    In any which case. Reason suggests to me, that there was no super-villain plot behind this. It did most likely not happen as outlined below.

    Obama: I’ve got an idea. Hear me out. Let’s make the ATF sell guns to Mexican crime syndicates.
    Holder: You mean, in a sting operation?
    Obama: No! We don’t want the guns back, and we don’t want to put Mexicans to jail. Just hear me out.
    Holder: Ok, tell me more.
    Obama: The plan is smarter than that. Like I said, we sell them guns. Now, what happens if we do that?
    Holder: Hmmm… I don’t know? The buyers will get their hands on mucho weapons. If we sell them to just one party, I imagine they could get an upper hand on some of their competition?
    Obama: Exactly! And that will lead to criminals killing each other, which is good in itself, but the genius does not stop there.
    Holder: Ok…?
    Obama: When the criminals kill one and another, violence will also spill over to the general population. It’s also very likely that ordinary civilians will get killed in the process. You get it now?
    Holder: Eh… and that’s a good thing? How so?
    Obama: That’s good because it provides us with an opportunity. If gun violence goes up, the people are more willing to accept stricter gun regulations, which…
    Holder: …which helps us forwarding our gun control agenda! Genius! I love it!
    Obama: Well, this is why I’m the boss, and you’re not.

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  17. loserlame says:

    I think we should imitate the Thinkers pat old habits and harp on all and any blood being shed with these guns being “blood on Adolf Obama’s hands”, over and over.

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  18. CM says:

    Alex the reason YOU get accused of pushing conspiracy theories is that you are always so very convinced about something which seems rather far-fetched, and yet you never seem to have any evidence (let alone proof). Pretty simple.

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  19. AlexInCT says:

    The reason you get called a moron is… Never mind. It is obvious.

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  20. AlexInCT says:

    OK, I tried going through some blogs, but had to give that route up. The blogs were much about wading waist deep in mud, which made it difficult to distinguish fact from hate.

    Sounds a lot like your defense of Weiner to me. We all know how well that worked out. The reason this is on the blogs is that our media is avoiding the story now that they can’t any longer carry the campaign of lies that the wars in mexico only happened because they were getting guns in the US. The story now has become toxic to them. That’s because they know it will end up damaging the Obama administration. Obama can’t win. Either this yet again proves that he is inept and the people working for him are incompetent, or out of control, or as I suspect, it will end up showing these people love the chances that any crisis gives them enough to make up their own. And if you are having problems with blogs take on the story, read the WSJ take on how the current ATF director is being thrown under the bus, and not because he did wrong, but to protect the people above him from the fall out.

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  21. CM says:

    It’s only you calling me a moron, and I have no problem whatsoever with you thinking I’m a moron. I’d be concerned if your opinion of me was anything else.
    If you can spot a flaw in my analysis, then please feel free to point it out. Otherwise, we can assume you acknowledge your complete lack of supporting evidence.

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  22. Kimpost says:

    Sounds a lot like your defense of Weiner to me. We all know how well that worked out.

    My defence of Weiner? That’s rich. I vaguely believed the guy when no evidence was publicly available. But I always thought that the picture probably was of him. I think I was being quite reasonable there.

    The reason this is on the blogs is that our media is avoiding the story now that they can’t any longer carry the campaign of lies that the wars in mexico only happened because they were getting guns in the US

    Not all media are part of the Lame Stream Media. There is enough journalistic integrity out there to bring a president (or even an Attorney General) down. Even a liberal minded journalist would love to do that.

    Either this yet again proves that he is inept and the people working for him are incompetent, or out of control, or as I suspect, it will end up showing these people love the chances that any crisis gives them enough to make up their own

    Right now, I’d go for that Obama either knew nothing about it, and that if he did hear about it, it was in very vague terms. In my opinion, the issue itself doesn’t seem significant enough to be on the presidents table for real.

    And I’ve already stated that someone (probably a statistician) might have seized an opportunity here, and that such circumstances should be investigated. Was there an opportunity? Was it seized? Overall, I think I’m being quite reasonable, here again. Boring perhaps, but reasonable.

    Thanks for the WSJ-link. I saw that Melson would have to go elsewhere already. Not because he was thrown under a bus, though, in my opinion. But because he was actively involved in the case. Judging how things seemingly went down, he probably deserved to go.

    Let’s just wait and see if the hearings lead to something new.

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  23. CM says:

    And if you are having problems with blogs take on the story, read the WSJ take on how the current ATF director is being thrown under the bus, and not because he did wrong, but to protect the people above him from the fall out.

    Where does it say or infer that?

    It says:

    “The office of the Justice Department’s inspector general is investigating the matter.”

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  24. CM says:

    Of course you are being reasonable Kimpost. You’re going with EVIDENCE and FACTS, not conspiracy theory and chronic desperation. Alex is as transparent as ever.

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  25. HARLEY says:

    No where in my post did i make the claim that Obama was behind this, the program was stared during the last administration, and ramped up under this one, this is the ATF, and justice departments baby, though i not doubt that Obama was aware of some part of this, given it would reduce results he wanted. After all he told Sara Brady of the VPC, that they were working under the radar on gun control.

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  26. HARLEY says:

    Of course this brings up the whole question of just how much oversight there is over the BATF and other Federal law enforcement agencies.

    For the last few decades the BATF, has pretty much been allowed to do what ever they want, such as writing rules on the fly, arresting people for non-violations, and changing the definition of a rule to get a conviction……………

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  27. HARLEY says:

    The fact is the BATF,was allowing weapons to flow into Mexico,with their knowledge they would be used for violence and death.

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  28. HARLEY says:

    I say it’s probably an extremely poorly executed sting operation, and some heads need to roll because of it. I have no idea on how high up this was known, or to what detail people at various levels were informed, but that certainly should be investigated.

    poorly? WTF. Are you paying attention? There was NO attempt to seize the weapons or the principals in this matter, AT ALL, you can not run a sting with out, well with out closing the deal, and arresting the persons involved!, the ATF was NOT doing that was not planning on doing that and even tried to order the boarder Patrol to not do it.
    Oh and another thing if it was not for the Pro-gun blogs and such similar groups, this would have never seen the light of day. the mainstream press is very anti gun,.

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  29. HARLEY says:

    oh another thing, the one of the biggest supplier of arms to these Mexico is the United States Federal Government, via the foreign military sales office.
    Tens of thousands of Military weapons are sold to the Mexican Military every year, and quickly find their way into the hands of the Cartels…..crooked military officers and government officials, make a nice amount of money seeing that some of these arms meant for the Mexican army is sent somewhere else.

    The real sad thing is , that the stupid, overbearing drug laws of this nation is at the root of a majority of this violence.

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  30. HARLEY says:

    fuck it, 2 more things, the Mexican government was NOT informed of this operation at all, when the news broke on this Mexican president felipe calderon was very pissed off.

    When gunshops on the boarder area, called the ATF, to inform them that they had a suspected illegal attempt to purchase firearms,per ATF regulations, were told to procedure with the transactions, and there was no follow up at the site of sale. Many of these shops were afraid that they would be targeted by the ATF even though they co-operated with the agency. After all the ATF has been hammering these shops pretty hard in teh news for illicit sales for years, all teh while underhandedly approving the transfers.

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  31. AlexInCT says:

    Where does it say or infer that?

    Are you just trying real hard to remove all doubt about how you are pissed at me for running circles around you that you keep digging the fucking hole deeper and are making a fool out of your self CM? Did you read the god damned title of that WSJ post? Seriously, you are to f-ing easy.

    And the fucking DOJ is behind this shit, and now you expect their investigation to go anywhere close to actually exposing the truth? No wonder you thought the “investigation” of the ClimateGate e-mails “vindicated” you cultists and “discredited” those that clearly saw there wasn’t much science going on there. The DOJ knew about this bullshit going on and they should not be let off the hook. Neither should Obama whom told his fans he had “plans” to work around the 2nd Amendment and the gun freaks.

    As has been pointed out, they are now trying to pretend this was a sting operation run by the ATF and that they have no knowledge about what was happening. It’s laughable because those of us without the stupid blinkers and the reflexive need to defend the indefensible to protect Obama and his crew of incompetents, all understand that a “sting operation” actually should result in some kind of arrests. This operation could never have resulted in any such arrests, because the ATF has zero jurisdiction in Mexico. Even more important is the way the DOJ has, in a purely partisan and totally political way, decided which laws it enforces and which ones it will ignore, always favoring the Obama and leftists agenda, no matter how much of an obvious injustice and travesty it was.

    And anyone using the idiotic defense that the ATF was really running this thing solo only helps to prove that the Obama administration is incapable of the task of running the country and calling them inept is an understatement. Like Weiner did, they are grasping at straws to deflect blame. The director of the ATF is going under the bus so they can protect themselves and difuse this bomb they have on their hands. Let’s hope it doesn’t end there and we get to the truth.

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  32. InsipiD says:

    From what I’ve been reading at other sites, this could be Obama’s personal Watergate.

    Oh, sweet Snickers bars, I hope so. I don’t like Obama’s policies in general, but gun-grabbing from private citizens while arming Mexican cartels is just beyond anything rational.

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  33. CM says:

    Are you just trying real hard to remove all doubt about how you are pissed at me for running circles around you that you keep digging the fucking hole deeper and are making a fool out of your self CM? Did you read the god damned title of that WSJ post? Seriously, you are to f-ing easy.

    Running circles? Where was that? I certainly missed it.

    Yes, I read the title. It’s “Head of ATF Likely To Be Ousted”. That doesn’t say or infer anything even remotely related to what you are claiming. The headline is based on comment by people “familiar with the matter” Again, you’re just making shit up to try to support a position you already hold.

    And the fucking DOJ is behind this shit, and now you expect their investigation to go anywhere close to actually exposing the truth?

    Unless I have good reason, I expect and assume that professionals will act professionally.

    No wonder you thought the “investigation” of the ClimateGate e-mails “vindicated” you cultists and “discredited” those that clearly saw there wasn’t much science going on there.

    There were multiple investigations on Climategate and none of them found anything. But that’s aside from the fact that most of the hoola only arose because people decided to invent what they meant in the first place, and the media was typically woeful in reporting it.

    The DOJ knew about this bullshit going on and they should not be let off the hook. Neither should Obama whom told his fans he had “plans” to work around the 2nd Amendment and the gun freaks.

    You’re yet to link it all together. You need to demonstrate that this is an example of what Obama meant.

    As has been pointed out, they are now trying to pretend this was a sting operation run by the ATF and that they have no knowledge about what was happening. It’s laughable because those of us without the stupid blinkers and the reflexive need to defend the indefensible to protect Obama and his crew of incompetents, all understand that a “sting operation” actually should result in some kind of arrests.

    It’s one thing not have “blinders on” and another to just make shit up and pretend it’s what you want it to be. Most adults recongise the difference.
    There is also a big difference between defending/protecting someone and pointing out that what you claimed hasn’t been shown.

    The director of the ATF is going under the bus so they can protect themselves and difuse this bomb they have on their hands.

    This is what you need to demonstrate. Stating that this is your opinion isn’t demonstrating anything than your opinion.

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