Decline and Fall

Over at Sullivan’s blog, they are asking when the moment was that we realized we were a decadent Imperial Rome. Most of them are saying the Impeachment, which is insane. Rome did not decline because its people stopped tolerating lying, perjury, obstruction of justice and its leaders assuming they were above the law. Moreover, their points strike a stunning note of historical ignorance. Presidents have been mocked, jeered and pilloried far worse than Clinton ever was. Check out Cracked on this one — yes, a fucking humor website is more historically up-to-date than the typical Democrat.

It’s true that things got very badly partisan after the impeachment and we have two parties that have, apparently, no interest in governing. But that’s been a long time in coming. And I would say the 2000 election played as great a role, if not greater. It’s easy to forget — after all, it was almost a decade ago — that the Democrats spent several years as the party of obstruction and bullshit.

If you want to mark a beginning of an Imperial era, you might go to Woodrow Wilson’s loathsome presidency or maybe FDR. Blaming impeachment is simply blaming Republicans. And it’s not Republicans who have gone more than two years without proposing a budget. It’s not Republicans who stuck their head in the sand on Social Security. It’s not Republicans who are already undermining the cost controls in Obamacare.

As for comparisons to Rome, I have read Gibbon. And my opinion is that the reason Rome fell is because its leaders and its people stopped defending it. Considering that we’re currently in three wars, I don’t think that’s our problem just yet.

Comments are closed.

  1. AlexInCT

    The morons at Sully’s site must lack serious knowledge of the history of Rome, especially of it’s Senate and how they basically paved the way for the “Emperators” with their decadence and stupidity – Roman senators of that time, I should say, remind me a lot of the left’s elite – when they decided the serfs were theirs to fleece.


    As for comparisons to Rome, I have read Gibbon. And my opinion is that the reason Rome fell is because its leaders and its people stopped defending it.

    GIVE THAT MAN A CIGAR!

    When any society reaches a point where the great majority of its people prefer their accumulated comforts at all costs, demand it be secured, even over their freedom, and do not care to defend what they have anymore, for whatever reason, then that society is toast. It’s the same thing that happened to every empire all the way up to the British one.

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  2. Hal_10000 *

    I’ll take that cigar. Oh wait … it’s not the one Clinton used is it?

    Oh, there I go again, mocking the President. I’m making the empire fall!

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  3. Seattle Outcast

    I’d point to the socialist string of leftist presidents starting with FDR and culminating with Obama. I think we’re nearing the end of what many call the 3rd Republic – the strategies of a cradle to grave government are seeing their impending death.

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  4. Monolith

    I won’t read any post beginning with a Sullivan reference. He’s become laughable garbage who’s not worth my time.

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  5. Rann

    You know, it always gets me how these people practically salivate over questions in the vein of “When will America fall?” They leap to answer discussions of who will be the new world superpower after the USA crumbles, they gleefully posit timelines for when we’ll break down into any number of irrelevant micronations… over our money becoming literally worthless, our government shutting down completely, people abandoning the whole country to leave it depopulated, etc. etc. etc…

    But don’t you dare accuse them of hating America or suggest they should go ahead and go somewhere else. Because then you’re just a pathetic loser “love it or leave it” Republicunt who can’t stand to hear any legitimate criticism about the country, and of COURSE they love America, just that they’re rather looking forward to its destruction is all…

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  6. InsipiD

    I know. That his echo-chamber readers gave that answer should forever erase any possibility that Sullivan is a voice of moderate reason or intellectual honesty.

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  7. Seattle Outcast

    By the time I started visiting Sullivan I couldn’t see what the attraction was. Then he started salivating over Palin and obsessing over her last pregnancy as a “conspiracy”…

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  8. Kimpost

    I find it amusing to see how people of all times seem to think that everything revolves around them and their futile lives. Every generation points at contemporary events, predicting downfall and end times. As if it were likely that a president lying over a BJ, or having him impeached over it, would mean anything in a grander scale of things.

    If United States will ever fall, I predict that it will be over something much more significant.

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  9. Rann

    If United States will ever fall, I predict that it will be over something much more significant.

    An unsanitized telephone, perhaps.

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  10. West Virginia Rebel

    One of the key differences is that Rome was not a democracy, also they had several uprisings and civil wars as an Empire.

    An unsanitized telephone

    Coincidentally enough, part of the reason Rome may have fallen was because they used lead pipes for their water supply. And they had plagues, too.

    I think one of the signs of a great power failing is the state of its military. Russia had to privatize its (I think) when the Soviet Union collapsed; Britain basically has given up on its Navy. (Also, I think Britain was trying to stay an Imperial power at a time when it was no longer possible after WW2.) Our military is hardly at that state yet, but when I see how we’re dealing with the ME by outsourcing one war in Libya and trying to fight a covert one in Yemen, I get concerned.

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  11. AlexInCT

    I wouldn’t do that to my worst enemy – not that I am calling you my enemy either Hal – cause that’s just plain evil sir.

    And you are only able to mock because they are so bountiful in their opportunities to do so.

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  12. Mississippi Yankee

    As if it were likely that a president lying over a BJ, or having him impeached over it, would mean anything in a grander scale of things.

    NORDIC(K) PLEESE!

    And how do you NOW feel about Weiner and his confessions?

    Back on topic, this country’s decline accelerated greatly right after the ChiComs bought US. Cash on the barrel-head.

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  13. hist_ed

    Coincidentally enough, part of the reason Rome may have fallen was because they used lead pipes for their water supply.

    I am pretty sure that has been refuted (and if memory serves that idea comes from Gibbon). The Romans knew lead was unhealthy-the lead mine slaves all died relatively quickly. If memory serves Romans used lead pipe for outflows but not anything carrying drinking water.

    the strategies of a cradle to grave government are seeing their impending death.

    It ain’t just us. Almost every social welfare state is on the rocks. When the government takes care of a population, that populations seems to stop having children-thus the catch-22 of those polices. Without those children to tax, the state can’t afford itself.

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