Church joins the Dutch movement to legalize pedophilia

The Netherlands is supposedly experiencing a big “scandal” – and I say that in quotations because frankly, and contrary to the AP’s bullshit quote that the pedophile movement is reviled, it isn’t at all, because if were, like happens to anything “reviled” in every European country, they would have outlawed any kind of behavior they disapprove off – it now looks like even some members the church there are saying it’s much ado about nothing, and that it’s often A-OK.

AMSTERDAM (AP) – The Dutch Catholic Church and the Salesian order are investigating revelations that a Salesian priest served on the board of a group that promotes pedophilia with the full knowledge of his boss. The order’s top official in the Netherlands, Delegate Herman Spronck, confirmed in a statement that the priest – identified by RTL Nieuws as 73-year-old “Father Van B.” – served on the board of “Martijn,” a group that campaigns to end the Dutch ban on adult-child sex. The group is widely reviled but not outlawed.

“Of course we reject this and distance ourselves from this personal initiative” on the part of the priest, Spronck said in a statement. “Membership in such organizations does not fit with the ethos of the Salesian order.” However, Spronck’s own superior in Belgium said he will investigate both Spronck and Van B., after both men were quoted by RTL Nieuws as saying such relationships aren’t always harmful. Superior Jos Claes told Belgian television on Saturday he “couldn’t imagine” that both men would not be disciplined, but said he must make sure of the facts first. “Society thinks these relationships are harmful. I disagree,” RTL quoted Van B. as saying. He served on Martijn’s board from 2008 until 2010, when its founder was arrested for alleged possession of child pornography, a case that is ongoing.

Europe, and especially the Netherlands, has a lot of people that agree with this priest’s view that quite often this stuff is just fine. Soon it will be fine all the time. A decade or so down the line it will be normalized. That slippery slope argument that gets dismissed so eagerly by everyone that thinks their fight to normalize whatever kind of behavior most feel is fringe but they don’t, gets harder and harder to ignore with revelations like this. There are consequences such drastic societal changes, no matter how well intended, and they always end up being things that open the door to more harmful changes. Then again, the Dutch are also at the forefront of the movement to just outright euthanize those expensive older people, so maybe these things will all end up canceling each other out.

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  1. Kimpost

    Eh..? This is more of a church thing (yet another), than of a societal thing, isn’t it? People in Europe aren’t just fine with paedophilia. That’s an absurd assumption – and laughable at that.

    You don’t think Europeans are parents too? You think European parents want their kids to be f-cked by horny priests? Luckily, paedophilia is an extremely fringe occurrence, wherever you look.

    And what’s that slippery slope you are talking about? Making it none of anyone’s business whether consenting adults have anal sex in the privacy of their homes? Allowing same sex marriage, which supposedly leads to bestiality and incest? No, if anything, laws against paedophilia have become stronger over the years.

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  2. InsipiD

    I don’t quite “get” this. It doesn’t sound like the church is on board here, only maybe a couple of rogues. Any large organization is bound to have members who break laws and who act outside of their employers’ endorsed policies. I agree with Kim above in that I doubt there’s anything serious in the idea that pedophilia would be legalized by a European country. While the group is allowed to exist (like NAMBLA), it appears Dutch authorities are currently dealing with a case against the founder for breaking laws. All of this is from your text. I don’t quite see how you’d have the opposite conclusion from reading that.

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  3. richtaylor365

    I don’t think we (the U.S.) should be pointing fingers at anybody else regarding pedophilia involving priests, when the pope apologized to the world for the Catholic churches sins in this regards, he had us in mind.

    I was also going to bring up NAMBLA (insipiD beat me to it), they have their Martijn and we have NAMBLA, both are pretty lunitic fringe.

    It sounded to me like the church was not condoning pedophilia, even the head guy said that the investigation is on going but I can’t imagine any priest who holds these views as being able to stay a priest or affiliated with the church in anyway.

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  4. CM

    I’m also scatching my head. Seems like Alex completely misread the story and decided that it was consistent with his Europe-hating narrative. (I hear they sometimes eat their children too).
    I was also going to bring up NAMBLA, but as usual I’m way late.

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  5. AlexInCT *

    People in Europe aren’t just fine with paedophilia. That’s an absurd assumption – and laughable at that.

    Funny that because the “intellectuals” I have talked to all told me we Americans are way to uptight about it and that it is fine Kimpost. The average man may be against it, but the political class sure isn’t. Probably because they are all freaks.

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  6. AlexInCT *

    I don’t quite “get” this. It doesn’t sound like the church is on board here, only maybe a couple of rogues.

    No, Insipid. A priest giving an interview said it was fine, and then confirmed his superior felt the same way – alluding that the church was OK with it – as he did. When some people seeing this interview freaked out, someone in the church hierarchy far above them got involved. Now the priest’s superior – the same one the priest insinuated was OK with it in the first place – says he doesn’t think it is OK. I BTW got my information reading the Dutch articles on this.

    Edit: BTW Here is the organization pushing this in Dutch and English. There is a lot more on the Dutch site than the one in English BTW. But these people are pushing hard for changes to legalize pedophillia.

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  7. AlexInCT *

    I don’t think we (the U.S.) should be pointing fingers at anybody else regarding pedophilia involving priests,

    What about pedophilia in general? Because the interview was about how those that still held a stigma against pedophilia weren’t all there and even the church felt it was OK, albeit under certain cirmustances.

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  8. AlexInCT *

    I’m also scatching my head. Seems like Alex completely misread the story and decided that it was consistent with his Europe-hating narrative. (I hear they sometimes eat their children too).

    No CM, they only eat people that they get on the internets to go along with it.

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  9. InsipiD

    Seriously, come on. Two people, bottom of the hierarchy, quietly embrace illegal activity. One makes a public statement, and is left out to dry by his previously agreeable superior. Suddenly, boss’s boss’s boss is involved and is justifiably horrified that people might think the organization is on board based on statements of a rogue employee at the bottom. After a suitable investigation to make sure that life-ruining accusation is true, then said parties are dismissed. It’s how a large and complicated organization should be run, and it very much sounds like what the church is doing in this case.

    As for the Martijn organization and its NAMBLA counterpart, I honestly think that law enforcement plays too loose with groups like that. I understand that they’re busy ensuring free speech and perhaps gathering evidence, but they should be on them to the point of harassment all the time. People legally advocating illegal activity should be subject to strict scrutiny.

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  10. richtaylor365

    From the very first paragraph of your article:

    The Dutch Catholic Church and the Salesian order are investigating revelations that a Salesian priest served on the board of a group that promotes pedophilia with the full knowledge of his boss.

    Doesn’t this indicate to you that the Church found out that two of their members did some bad stuff (or is advocating bad stuff) and now they are investigating, how is that condoning the behavior or the conduct? If child sex is just peachy with the Church, what is there to investigate?

    someone in the church hierarchy far above them got involved.

    Isn’t that how its suppose to work? Van B ( a priest) was exposed as belonging to an organization that advocates child sex, his boss (Spronk) found out about it and made a statement that Van B’s conduct is not sanctioned by the church, although there is some indication that he made another statement saying that he is OK with it. The head guy (Jos Cleaes) hears what’s going on, he knows Van B is a freak but is not sure to what level Spronk’s culpability is, so he is investigating. Sounds to me like they are policing themselves. And if Jos Cleas sweeps everything under the rug (like that they did here in America) then he is also in hot water and his boss should investigate the lot of them.
    What am I missing?

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  11. loserlame

    “Kindergeld” is the German government’s “rewarding”‘ their child-hating culture to have opffspring. This could, in theory, be handled with a simple tax break, but no….

    Taxpaying expatriate residents of Germany are, like Germans, entitled to Kindergeld if they have children. This is an allowance from the German government to help defray some of the cost of raising children. It can run from €184 to €215 per child per month, and is usually made by a fund transfer into a German bank account.

    Just about any taxpayer with children can get the Kindergeld, whether employed, self employed or independent. You get it as a rule until the children turn 18, though it can continue until they are 25 if they are still in school. You get €184 per month for each of the first two children, €190 for the third child and €215 for each subsequent one.

    Adopted and foster children qualify you for the Kindergeld, as do children of your spouse and your grandchildren if they live in your household.

    In most cases it is the parents who are entitled to the money, not the children, though an exception can be made in the case of orphans, or parents whose whereabouts are unknown.

    You apply for Kindergeld at your local labor office (Arbeitsamt), with a written form that must be signed. Another party can make the application if you grant them power of attorney.

    Be sure to report it if you are getting child support money from another country. If a child has an income of more than €8,004 per year through a trust fund, employment, etc. the parents are not entitled to Kindergeld.

    Once your employment ends or you or your children leave Germany, you must notify the agency that pays you Kindergeld to stop the payments. Failure to make such notification will give rise to claims for repayment of any amounts improperly received.

    A lot of people’s experience in Germany is that the ‘official’ working at the desk (think any local government office here) often gets it wrong. Go back, ask again and one of them will give you the Kindergeld application form.

    People on higher incomes should think carefully before applying for this benefit as it is taxable. It is often better to apply for a taxable benefit (€3648 per child) rather than Kindergweld to reduce taxable income and save tax paid.

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  12. Kimpost

    Politicians are a scrutinized “class”, as they should be. But suggesting that they are in favour of paedophilia, that’s stretching the “I-hate-politicians” narrative too far.

    You need to calm down. After that you need to seriously re-evaluate your intellectual entourage…

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  13. AlexInCT *

    Politicians are a scrutinized “class”, as they should be. But suggesting that they are in favour of paedophilia, that’s stretching the “I-hate-politicians” narrative too far.

    I am not stretchign anything. I am going by what I have seen and heard.

    You need to calm down. After that you need to seriously re-evaluate your intellectual entourage…

    Really? Weak.

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  14. AlexInCT *

    Insipid you aren’t even a bit curious as to why the priest made the comment? There are too many people in these churches that feel the same way as he do as far as I am aconcerned. They just say nothing about it. Since the church seems to me to have been taken over by the communists from the bottom up, I wouldn’t be surprised it gets taken over by others in the same manner.

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  15. Kimpost

    Hey, don’t get upset. You are the one who told us that you speak with intellectuals who think paedophilia is fine. You should think about dropping them, that’s all.

    You want to know what’s really weak? The original post we are all commenting on now was weak. Come on, you know it was. Just admit it, say you were wrong, and move on already.

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  16. InsipiD

    I don’t think you’re qualified to make that comment at all. What does pedophilia have to do with communism? I think it’s clear that the Catholic church has a problem. It’s cost them a ton of money and makes them look bad. They’re really trying to rid themselves of the problem and the reputation. Many events went unpunished too long, and so it’s managed to collect a few opportunist pedophiles. They’re trying to fix the problem, and clearly don’t institutionally endorse pedophilia. It won’t happen overnight. As related to this situation, you’re trying to make it sound like a country and the church are embracing pedophilia when it’s pretty obvious that both are fighting against it. I don’t have to be curious about the priest. I know he’s a sick pervert. He and his helpful boss are being swept out with the trash.

    Your original assertion is that the Catholic Church and Dutch in general are working to legalize pedophilia there. This story doesn’t come close to supporting that and clearly shows the opposite. I generally like your posts, but you’re just wrong this time. Several other people are pointing that out, too. It’s like claiming that the girl semen flavor story happened in your presence despite being called out by everybody. I don’t know how you misinterpreted this story so badly, but you did. Don’t double down on defending an opinion based so strongly on a misunderstanding. You’ve got to do better than that.

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  17. loserlame

    I saw them eat their children (albeit without crap like that dreadful American fast food fix-all, catsup/ketchup, yuck, disgusting.)
    Many Euros I knew were of the old school of discipline, for instance, if a father came home one night after a deep and thoughtful discussion of world events over a few beers, inspected his (at max.) 1 son’s / 1 daughter’s room and found a poster of some non-singing American like Leif Garrett desecrating a freshly, expensively, expertly tapestried wall, discipline was in order.

    Gotta show a kid who is boss, and what true love was all about. Austrian Manfred Deix drew some I found fitting cartoons on the subject of Euros and sex long ago – incest and pedophilia, homos in the clergy, etc. all over Europe. Educate them for peace and love, start em off on the right foot.
    I had access to porn from about 12-13 years.

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  18. loserlame

    The guage of how tolerant pedophilia is in overseas is perhaps the severity of its punishment? Crime or misdemaenor? Jail time, perhaps 30 days, and 300 Euros for first timers?

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  19. loserlame

    Free and legal dope leads a few kids to finance their nifty habit with prostitution. This is okay so long as dope remains legal.

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  20. loserlame

    In 2008, Karina Schaapman, a former prostitute and former member of the Amsterdam city council, produced a report about the Amsterdam sex trade. She offered the police a face book with 80 “violent pimps”, of whom only three were Dutch-born. She said that more than 75% of Amsterdam’s 8,000 to 11,000 prostitutes were from Eastern Europe, Africa and Asia

    Ten percent of all prostitutes were estimated to be drug addicts (in the late 90’s) the majority of these prostitutes being Dutch nationals or former Dutch nationals.[11] Most prostitution consists in females selling sex to males. About 5% of prostitutes were estimated to be males and 5% transsexuals.[12]

    In 2011 Dutch authorities started asking sex workers to pay taxes on their earnings

    Enlightenment just never ends –

    http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/ausland/europa/Und-noch-eine-minderjaehrige-Prostituierte/story/28358009

    Der neue Sexskandal, mit dem Silvio Berlusconi seit Tagen konfrontiert ist, zieht weitere Kreise. Es soll eine zweite minderjährige Prostituierte an Partys in der Mailänder Villa des Premiers teilgenommen haben.
    Im Keller der Wohnung des Showgirls in Mailand, deren Miete angeblich Berlusconi bezahlte, sei Kokain konfisziert worden.

    A second underaged prostitute found to have been chilling with Berlusconi is a “scandal” why? Doing dope is fine, too, harmless.

    http://www.strassenkinderreport.de/index.php?goto=287&user_name

    Europa
    In Russland, der Tschechischen Republik, Polen und Rumänien werden Frauen und Minderjährige von ausländischen Sextouristen ausgebeutet.

    Zwischen Surinam und Holland soll ein reger Frauen- und Mädchenhandel zum Zweck der Prostitution stattfinden. In Afrika ist der Glaube verbreitet, dass der Geschlechtsverkehr mit Kindern vor einer Ansteckung mit dem HI-Virus schützt

    Aye, having sex with minors is proven to immunize males against HIV in deeply cultured Africa.

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  21. loserlame

    . There are consequences such drastic societal changes, no matter how well intended, and they always end up being things that open the door to more harmful changes.

    Aye, doping up in Holland was supposed to chill everyone out, turn the country and eventually Europe into a perpetual 1969, all full of peace and love, yet ever mindful of US imperio-hijinx.
    So hows it coming along?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12006356

    The European Court of Justice has ruled that Dutch authorities can bar foreigners from cannabis-selling coffee shops.
    Correspondents say the government wants to extend the restrictions nationwide.
    There are some 700 coffee shops in the Netherlands. The cultivation and sale of soft drugs through them is decriminalised but not legal.

    “That restriction is justified by the objective of combating drug tourism and the accompanying public nuisance,” the court said.

    It added that the governments of Belgium, Germany and France had linked drug tourism to public order problems in their own countries.

    Cannabis use in the Netherlands is tolerated in small amounts, with possession and purchases limited to 5g (0.2oz) per adult, regardless of the consumer’s nationality.

    However, the Netherlands’ centre-right coalition government plans to turn coffee shops into private members’ clubs amid concerns about the threat drug tourism poses to the Dutch way of life.
    The BBC’s Geraldine Coughlan in The Hague says the ruling could spell the end of the country’s 30-year-old soft drugs tourism trade.

    Cmon, peace and love take time. What the EU needs to do is legalize pot 100% everywhere and it’ll all work out. 100% guaranteed.

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  22. AlexInCT *

    Hey, don’t get upset.

    Upset? Seriously Kimpost you aren’t able to do that to me.

    You are the one who told us that you speak with intellectuals who think paedophilia is fine.

    Yes, I have spoken with several Euro politicians & academics that have told me it’s not such a big deal. They also told me euthanasia (no not kids from Asia) is something that society should start considering to control medical costs. And that anyone making more money than a politician, especially entrepreneurs in the private sector, sets a bad precedent for everyone in society, amongst other things. What’s your point?

    You should think about dropping them, that’s all.

    If you mean dropping them as in knocking some sense into them, yes, that thought has occurred to me, but then again, it wouldn’t get me anything. If you mean something else, please elaborate.

    You want to know what’s really weak? The original post we are all commenting on now was weak. Come on, you know it was. Just admit it, say you were wrong, and move on already.

    Ah, sure it was. Can you give me the details as to why? I pointed out that the AP post didn’t coincide with the articles in Dutch and what they said when I realized my point that now we have members of the church openly saying pedophilia isn’t so bad only to then have the church turn on them when the response wasn’t good, but that the inevitable progression to make pedophilia common is going on, seems to have been ignored. If that’s what you feel I missed originally, then point you. If however you are still defending the ludicrous notion that the European elite doesn’t feel that pedophilia, like many other things, should be normalized, then I think I will simply ignore you, as it is obvious nothing will convince you otherwise. Until it is too late that is.

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  23. Kimpost

    So you are one of those, huh? One of those who never backs down, regardless of how wrong they are.

    Put it down as another pet peeve of mine. ;)

    You are suggesting that the “Church [is joining] the Dutch movement to legalize pedophilia”. A sensational statement, to say the least. Now, how do you back it up?

    Well, by presenting an article which is telling us nothing about a “Dutch legalization movement”. In fact, seeing that the issue is regarded as a scandal, implies the opposite.

    And when it comes to the church, it clearly states the opposite of what you have suggested. The church is joining no such thing, they are throwing the involved people over board.

    You still don’t think your case is weak?

    Further more, you make more hilarious claims, without even trying to back them up.

    [the pedophile movement isn’t reviled at all], because if were, like happens to anything “reviled” in every European country, they would have outlawed any kind of behaviour they disapprove off

    Alex, paedophilia is outlawed. Or are you saying that because, let’s say, same sex marriage is allowed, paedophilia isn’t reviled? Either way, it doesn’t make much sense.

    You are also touching on the slippery slope argument, without elaborating. Where’s the slope? And how is it slippery?

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  24. Rann

    Or are you saying that because, let’s say, same sex marriage is allowed, paedophilia isn’t reviled?

    Oh god, please don’t give him that kind of opening…

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  25. loserlame

    Ok, this is the 70s musical variety show “disco”, Germany’s version of “SoulTrain” MC’d by openly gay Ilja Richter. So far, so enlightened.

    The guy singing this soon-to-be global anthem about the “Smurfs” (a 50s Belgian creation) is Dutch citizen Petrus Kartner, calling himself “Vader Abraham” i.e. “father” or “daddy”. Sure, Dad..

    The album was released in several dozen countries, including Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Sweden, and Japan, and in various different languages, all sung by Kartner. The album scored a number one hit in 16 countries

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH0K1F_Jtkg

    Whats interesting is Kraut adults dressed in their Sunday best really getting into this childrens song, and they all manage to bungle the lyrics and miss the beat. This is high culture.

    At 3:00 Daddy Abe actually seems to kiss the defiant punk-ass Smurf who sings like hes in the “bathtub” and who, of course, retorts in American English.
    “..is this really necessary?”
    “YESSIR!”

    Dieses Lied sollte die Hymne der EU werden, käme cool! ;-)
    ZahnreisserYu 11 months ago

    “This song should become the hymn of the EU. Would be cool!”

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  26. loserlame

    … and did I mention that his moniker, Abraham, refers to the Biblical one, who had seven sons? It does. He even dressed as Abraham when singing a song he wrote about him

    In 1971 he also sang a duet with13-year old child star Wilma Landkroon “Zou het erg zijn” “would it be bad”. What, little girl , what…. heheh.

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  27. AlexInCT *

    So you are one of those, huh? One of those who never backs down, regardless of how wrong they are.

    Nope, I am one that doesn’t back down because someone thinks they can shout me down.

    You are suggesting that the “Church [is joining] the Dutch movement to legalize pedophilia”. A sensational statement, to say the least. Now, how do you back it up?

    I suggested that someone in the church sure as hell said it was fine, claimed his superior was OK with it, then the church came down on them when it became a hot potato. But you can keep pretending I said something otherwise so you can keep flogging your baloney.

    Well, by presenting an article which is telling us nothing about a “Dutch legalization movement”. In fact, seeing that the issue is regarded as a scandal, implies the opposite.

    The issue backfired on the people that thought they could get away with saying it wasn’t such a big deal or bad. It became as scandal when they had to do a 180 on their claim because people started asking if the church was actually backing pedophilia. The AP story’s timeline lacks the nuances of the Dutch articles, but there was a lot more to this story than you want to pretend otherwise.

    And when it comes to the church, it clearly states the opposite of what you have suggested. The church is joining no such thing, they are throwing the involved people over board.

    Yeah, after it caused them trouble. Originally the priest that made the claim said he had the backing of his superior. I am inclined to agree he would never have gone out on a limb like that without it, and that the superior is now covering his own ass. These people didn’t do this in a vacuum. I think you are fixated on the heading I used instead of the facts I put in the story/ If I had put a question mark at the end of the heading would you still be trying so hard to get in my pants?

    You still don’t think your case is weak?

    Which case is that? The one I made or the one you are pretending I did?

    Further more, you make more hilarious claims, without even trying to back them up.

    Alex, paedophilia is outlawed. Or are you saying that because, let’s say, same sex marriage is allowed, paedophilia isn’t reviled? Either way, it doesn’t make much sense.

    So what? Outlawed or not, as others have pointed out, there are no stiff sentences for engaging in it. And yes, pedophilia is certainly NOT reviled amongst the elite. The same ones that advocate for euthanasia of anyone that costs the medical system too much, and a plethora of other behavior, like thinking their above the law on other things as well as the head of the IMF just recently proved, that freak the masses out. You can pretend it doesn’t make sense all you want, but that’s not going to change these facts.

    You are also touching on the slippery slope argument, without elaborating. Where’s the slope? And how is it slippery?

    Are you serious? Never mind. I don’t think you are.

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  28. AlexInCT *

    As related to this situation, you’re trying to make it sound like a country and the church are embracing pedophilia when it’s pretty obvious that both are fighting against it

    Really? Did you read what I wrote? Let me emphasize something for you:

    it now looks like even some members the church there are saying it’s much ado about nothing, and that it’s often A-OK.

    What I wrote was that SOME members of the church had made the ludicrous claim that pedophilia was OK, and it caused a world of hurt ending in the church coming down on them. Then I pointed out that the movement to legalize pedophilia sure as hell made the claim the church was backing them

    Did you read what I wrote, or did you just up and read the heading and go bonkers?

    Your original assertion is that the Catholic Church and Dutch in general are working to legalize pedophilia there.

    No, my assertion was that the pro-legalization movement was using members of the church agreeing that pedophilia wasn’t wrong as a means to break down the barriers opposing them. It backfired, but it isn’t going to deter them from claiming the church has given them the OK.

    It’s like claiming that the girl semen flavor story happened in your presence despite being called out by everybody.

    Well it did happen and it happened a long time ago, long before it seems to have been even a joke (and I wish I had made a joke out of it). You can call me out all you want. I can’t prove it because I have no clue where the girl is, but I will be damned if I will just cow down because others think it didn’t happen.

    Don’t double down on defending an opinion based so strongly on a misunderstanding. You’ve got to do better than that.

    I am going to double down on what I said, especially since it isn’t what you seem to think it was at all. mark my words: this guy made the claim with support from his supperiors. Now they are backing down. This will come back sooner than later.

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  29. Kimpost

    I can see that this leads us nowhere. Your responses have already become predictable, which is kind of sad.

    On an upside, I predict that your next blog entry will be much stronger. ;)

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  30. Kimpost

    Thanks for the tip on the girl semen flavour story. I wasn’t around here then, but the archives are still searchable. :)

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